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In article <391d719f@news.povray.org> , "Marc Koester" <mko### [at] gmx net>
wrote:
> or like Thorsten Froehlich:
> "I will complain to GMX and ask them to close your account."
>
> With these and other statements you proved no better behaviour than mine.
If you don't understand the concept of spam and why it is not acceptable,
maybe you should not use the internet. Besides, GMX (like all free e-mail
services) has anti-spam rules, and I am sure unsolicited e-mail to at least
328 people (I have the other two lists as well) qualifies as spam!
So my complaint is justified, but for your deliberate action (after all you
had to collect the e-mail addresses) there is no excuse. Not even for being
new to this group.
And I don't even care if YOU find it rude.
Thorsten
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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> In article <391d719f@news.povray.org> , "Marc Koester" <mko### [at] gmxnet>
> wrote:
> > or like Thorsten Froehlich:
> > "I will complain to GMX and ask them to close your account."
> >
> > With these and other statements you proved no better behaviour than mine.
>
> If you don't understand the concept of spam and why it is not acceptable,
> maybe you should not use the internet. Besides, GMX (like all free e-mail
> services) has anti-spam rules, and I am sure unsolicited e-mail to at least
> 328 people (I have the other two lists as well) qualifies as spam!
>
> So my complaint is justified, but for your deliberate action (after all you
> had to collect the e-mail addresses) there is no excuse. Not even for being
> new to this group.
>
We should perhaps not overreact about this. For somebody who is new to the
internet, the very concept of spam doesn't mean anything. In real life, someone
looking for this sort of help could very well phone to a lot of people or put
an ad in the newspapers. We also receive a lot of unsolicited brochures and ads
in our real-life mailboxes and AFAIK we don't sue the senders.
Some of the ethical rules peculiar to the net are absolutely unknown outside
it: unethical behaviours on the net may appear unethical only to those who've
been using it for a while. And there's no reading a FAQ about netiquette if you
don't know what a FAQ is (or a binary attachment).
Since Mr Koester didn't try to hide his identity and quickly apologised
(something real spammers never do) I don't see a need for further bad feelings.
G.
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"Marc Koester" <mko### [at] gmxnet> wrote :
>
> In my opinion it is not minor rude to offend my person in such ways like
Bill DeWitt:
> "How rude you must be in real life, clamoring for attention like that".
> or like Thorsten Froehlich:
> "I will complain to GMX and ask them to close your account."
>
> With these and other statements you proved no better behaviour than mine.
>
With this statement you prove that you still do not understand what you
have done and why we complain. Expressing my opinion of your behavior is
nowhere near as harmful as sending attachments to people who have to pay for
on-line time. You cost people money. You cost people time. Your apology is
lame, not even acknowledging the actual thing you did wrong, then you try to
deflect the blame by spreading it around.
No one was disturbed by your questions. What appalling gall! Your
question is meaningless in this issue! I am disturbed that you sent an
attachment to hundreds of people's private email whom you also sent
the -same- attachment to in the NG. I haven't even read your question! I
deleted the large file as soon as it downloaded in my mailbox.
You -are- rude. Thorsten Froehlich is doing the correct thing that I
will also do as soon as I finish typing this message. I hope others do. My
statement may have been a little rude, but it was also accurately
descriptive. It didn't cost the several hundred dollars that your message
might have cost.
And what make you think that after such an inconsiderate action that I
should help you finish a job that you don't seem to be up to doing yourself?
Perhaps after you lose a couple of ISP accounts you will learn better
manners.
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Go get him Tiger :)
Lucky me got 3 copies, the e-mail, this group and pov.a-u :(
--
Alf
http://www.peake42.freeserve.co.uk/
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alf_Peake/
Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:391cadcb@news.povray.org...
> PLEASE NOTE:
>
> It is UNACCEPTABLE that you also spam everybody in this group*. I
will
> complain to GMX and ask them to close your account. I don't care
for an
> apology, so don't bother sending it!
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Thorsten
>
>
> * For the few who didn't get his spam: He e-mailed most people in
this
> group. In total something around 82 KB (including attachments) to
more than
> a hundred people.
>
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"Gilles Tran" wrote:
> We should perhaps not overreact about this.
(...)
> Some of the ethical rules peculiar to the
> net are absolutely unknown outside it:
> unethical behaviours on the net may appear
> unethical only to those who've been using
> it for a while. And there's no reading a
> FAQ about netiquette if you don't know what
> a FAQ is (or a binary attachment).
I agree.
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
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On Sat, 13 May 2000 17:17:31 +0200, "Marc Koester" <mko### [at] gmxnet>
wrote:
>Dear readers,
>
>I read the statements about my person. I apologize by everyone who feels disturbed by
my questions!
I did not feel disturbed at all, just deleted your e-mail when I saw
the long "To: " field. Some people were offended, and rightly so. I
kindly suggest you find some FAQ or other info on netiquette (Emily
Postnews is a good start, try searching for it in your favourite
search engine). I know this will help, at least it did when I was new
to the Internet and stepped on a few toes :)
Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
TAG e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg
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Wha? Hey, I thought you were serious about that Emily Postnews.
To my surprise I found it to be quite the opposite.
Apparently I have a lot to learn about netiquette even though I also
seem to do very well for the most part.
So others might check what I saw there: http://psg.com/emily.html
Bob
"Peter Popov" <pet### [at] usanet> wrote in message
news:e6drhsc0t2efpj66rr6plapni6khtg332k@4ax.com...
| kindly suggest you find some FAQ or other info on netiquette (Emily
| Postnews is a good start, try searching for it in your favourite
| search engine). I know this will help, at least it did when I was new
| to the Internet and stepped on a few toes :)
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In article <391d719f@news.povray.org>, "Marc Koester"
<mko### [at] gmxnet> wrote:
> I read the statements about my person. I apologize by everyone who feels
> disturbed by my questions!
Not by your questions, but by your behavior! As others have said, your
questions have little to do with this.
> As I am new to newsgroups I made two big mistakes. First I send an
> attachment to an non-binary newsgroup
Two non-binary newsgroups, that is. One to povray.general and one to
povray.advanced-users.
And since this doesn't seem to have anything to do with POV,
povray.off-topic would be the most appropriate group. Attachments are
allowed there, if they are few and small in size.
> and second I did a mass-mailing to several readers of this newsgroup
> to get in direct contact with the possibility of an attachment to
> provide project details. I learned how to behave correctly and will
> never do that again!
> And mistakes are human and we all learn from them!
This particular mistake(gathering hundreds of e-mail addresses and
mass-mailing to them) is not normally something beginners would be able
to figure out...by the time they are advanced enough to do this, most
people have hopefully developed better manners.
I don't particularly blame people for thinking you already know better.
> It is my interest to provide and share know-how to and with you.
This message apparently has nothing to do with POV-Ray, you have not
even mentioned if you use POV-Ray, and so far, this is the only time you
have responded in the newsgroup...it appeared you posted a question,
ignored all responses, then made invasive mass-mailings using techniques
common to spammers.
If this is so, try actually responding(on the newsgroups!) to the people
who try to answer your question, and be a bit more polite. You might get
a little farther.
> In my opinion it is not minor rude to offend my person in such ways like
> Bill DeWitt:
> "How rude you must be in real life, clamoring for attention like that".
> or like Thorsten Froehlich:
> "I will complain to GMX and ask them to close your account."
>
> With these and other statements you proved no better behaviour than mine.
With this statement, you prove these statements to be true. Don't try to
shift blame to others...what you did was far worse. You precipitated
this, the fault is in you.
--
Christopher James Huff - Personal e-mail: chr### [at] yahoocom
TAG(Technical Assistance Group) e-mail: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg
Personal Web page: http://chrishuff.dhs.org/
TAG Web page: http://tag.povray.org/
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On Sat, 13 May 2000 17:10:45 -0500, Bob Hughes wrote:
>Wha? Hey, I thought you were serious about that Emily Postnews.
Of course he was.
>To my surprise I found it to be quite the opposite.
You did read that note at the beginning, did you?
**NOTE: this is intended to be satirical. If you do not recognize
it as such, consult a doctor or professional comedian. The
recommendations in this article should recognized for what
they are -- admonitions about what NOT to do.
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Nicht an Tueren mangelt es,
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR | sondern an der Einrichtung (aka Content).
| | | hjp### [at] wsracat | -- Ale### [at] univieacat
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | zum Thema Portale in at.linux
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In article <391D9188.270F04CA@inapg.inra.fr> , Gilles Tran
<tra### [at] inapginrafr> wrote:
> For somebody who is new to the
> internet, the very concept of spam doesn't mean anything.
I see your point and would agree, but I suspect it does not apply in this
case: Setting up a free e-mail service is usually not done by someone
completely new to the internet.
Thorsten
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