 |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Ok, I've been povving for a while now, and I think most of you know that I'm not
very capable :-)
Well, I have some questions for a pice of work in a class on presentation
techniques..
I humbly come to you, people of pov, to ask for your aid in this.
My questions are in the field of 3D graphics and raytracing in specific.
1)
What are the current "cutting edge" techniques too create 3D images?
I know of raytracing and scanline rendering. What other techniques exist?
2)
3D packages, prices for theese(full retail prices) as well as the technique they
are based on.
3)
explination of the other concepts in 3D graphics.(I for one don't know what
NURBS is, this and other things are what I would like to know of)
4)
Good examples of POV in different usages..
--
Ok, I know it sounds like I''m trying to get you to do my work, but, I'm not. I
have some ideas and even more facts about the packages and techniques, but I
want to have more solid facts(and thoughts) on the subject, since I feel that I
may have several misunderstandings of facts..
I'd be glad for any help from the group, thankyou.
--
//Spider
[ spi### [at] bahnhof se ]-[ http://www.bahnhof.se/~spider/ ]
What I can do and what I could do, I just don't know anymore
"Marian"
By: "Sisters Of Mercy"
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
I'm not sure if I qualify to answer your question but I'll try.
Spider wrote:
>
> Ok, I've been povving for a while now, and I think most of you know that I'm not
> very capable :-)
> Well, I have some questions for a pice of work in a class on presentation
> techniques..
> I humbly come to you, people of pov, to ask for your aid in this.
> My questions are in the field of 3D graphics and raytracing in specific.
>
> 1)
> What are the current "cutting edge" techniques too create 3D images?
> I know of raytracing and scanline rendering. What other techniques exist?
Realtime rendering, like OpenGl and DirectX. "Cutting Edge"
techniques? I think the biggest fad is NURBS. Most high end modelers
have them or a form of them.
>
> 2)
> 3D packages, prices for theese(full retail prices) as well as the technique they
> are based on.
Kinetics MAX (did they just change there name?) reatail price $3000
(I'm guessing)
Maya or SoftImage ( Lots, $10000+ )
There are many more. Look at http://www.4dvision.com They have a lot
of info there. Many of these you can get for student prices. I know
MAX is $1300 bundled with Rhino. SoftImage is only $1000, but the
license runs out after a year. Check out http://www.journeyed.com/ for
student prices.
>
> 3)
> explination of the other concepts in 3D graphics.(I for one don't know what
> NURBS is, this and other things are what I would like to know of)
>
NURBS is Non-Uniform Rational B-splines. I'm not sure about the math
behind them. But they are very flexible in modeling. Check out
http://graphics.lcs.mit.edu/~mcm/6.838j/talk.html for some other
interesting concepts in computer graphics.
> 4)
> Good examples of POV in different usages..
> --
>
??? not sure what you mean here.
> Ok, I know it sounds like I''m trying to get you to do my work, but, I'm not. I
> have some ideas and even more facts about the packages and techniques, but I
> want to have more solid facts(and thoughts) on the subject, since I feel that I
> may have several misunderstandings of facts..
>
> I'd be glad for any help from the group, thankyou.
>
> --
> //Spider
> [ spi### [at] bahnhofse ]-[ http://www.bahnhof.se/~spider/ ]
> What I can do and what I could do, I just don't know anymore
> "Marian"
> By: "Sisters Of Mercy"
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Thanx for the support, I'll try to clarify a bit.
<snipping the good things>
> > 4)
> > Good examples of POV in different usages..
> > --
> >
> ??? not sure what you mean here.
Ahh, What i meant was images made in POV, for different uses. Not just the
standard, "hey this is a cool 3D effect" but for more specific uses.
Good examples(IMOHO) is Jim Kress' images of molecules and several of the
architectual images that can be seen.
Why this, it's for a rather .... unapreciative? audience, and a nice render with
ones name and some reflectiive sphere will probably not hit them as ... *OHHHH*
I must POV .... *sigh*
Well, I'm going to be looking for images, and I'll hope to get allowance to use
those I find "fitting". If not, too bad for me:-)
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Here is a little list of non-artistical povray usages, just fresh from the net :
Povray for generating charts :
http://www.tu-clausthal.de/~inof/ftpstat/
Povray for molecule display
http://www.mol.biol.ethz.ch/wuthrich/software/molmol/
Povray for teaching (many of them)
http://cda.mrs.umn.edu/~mcphee/Courses/1995_96/Graphics/Images/Student_images.html
http://www.uwp.edu/academic/computer.science/morris.csci/CS.320/Week.1/Syllabus.html
Povray for architecture (not including Nathan O'Brien of course)
http://www.pce.net/whistler/pov.html
Povray in urban design and architectural research (a whole PhD, in French)
http://hexadecimal.uoregon.edu/relativity/ (links don't work)
Povray in animal nutrition (that's me !)
http://www.inapg.inra.fr/ens_rech/dsa/iobdaa/cornglut.htm
Povray for Relativity
http://hexadecimal.uoregon.edu/relativity/
Povray and Lorenz's attractor (beautiful)
http://www.pws.uiuc.edu/~pitney/images/povray/lorenz1.html
Povray for physics
http://www.pws.uiuc.edu/~pitney/raytr.html
Povray for biology (quite known apparently)
http://ampere.scale.uiuc.edu/~m-lexa/cell/cell.html
Gilles Tran
Spider wrote:
> Thanx for the support, I'll try to clarify a bit.
>
> <snipping the good things>
> > > 4)
> > > Good examples of POV in different usages..
> > > --
> > >
> > ??? not sure what you mean here.
> Ahh, What i meant was images made in POV, for different uses. Not just the
> standard, "hey this is a cool 3D effect" but for more specific uses.
> Good examples(IMOHO) is Jim Kress' images of molecules and several of the
> architectual images that can be seen.
> Why this, it's for a rather .... unapreciative? audience, and a nice render with
> ones name and some reflectiive sphere will probably not hit them as ... *OHHHH*
> I must POV .... *sigh*
>
> Well, I'm going to be looking for images, and I'll hope to get allowance to use
> those I find "fitting". If not, too bad for me:-)
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Whee, this was a great list.
Thanx!
Anyone else up for the challenge? (Uncle Ken?)
More facts and ideas are interesting.
Gilles Tran wrote:
>
> Here is a little list of non-artistical povray usages, just fresh from the net :
>
> Povray for generating charts :
> http://www.tu-clausthal.de/~inof/ftpstat/
>
> Povray for molecule display
> http://www.mol.biol.ethz.ch/wuthrich/software/molmol/
>
> Povray for teaching (many of them)
> http://cda.mrs.umn.edu/~mcphee/Courses/1995_96/Graphics/Images/Student_images.html
> http://www.uwp.edu/academic/computer.science/morris.csci/CS.320/Week.1/Syllabus.html
>
> Povray for architecture (not including Nathan O'Brien of course)
> http://www.pce.net/whistler/pov.html
>
> Povray in urban design and architectural research (a whole PhD, in French)
> http://hexadecimal.uoregon.edu/relativity/ (links don't work)
>
> Povray in animal nutrition (that's me !)
> http://www.inapg.inra.fr/ens_rech/dsa/iobdaa/cornglut.htm
>
> Povray for Relativity
> http://hexadecimal.uoregon.edu/relativity/
>
> Povray and Lorenz's attractor (beautiful)
> http://www.pws.uiuc.edu/~pitney/images/povray/lorenz1.html
>
> Povray for physics
> http://www.pws.uiuc.edu/~pitney/raytr.html
>
> Povray for biology (quite known apparently)
> http://ampere.scale.uiuc.edu/~m-lexa/cell/cell.html
>
> Gilles Tran
>
> Spider wrote:
>
> > Thanx for the support, I'll try to clarify a bit.
> >
> > <snipping the good things>
> > > > 4)
> > > > Good examples of POV in different usages..
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > ??? not sure what you mean here.
> > Ahh, What i meant was images made in POV, for different uses. Not just the
> > standard, "hey this is a cool 3D effect" but for more specific uses.
> > Good examples(IMOHO) is Jim Kress' images of molecules and several of the
> > architectual images that can be seen.
> > Why this, it's for a rather .... unapreciative? audience, and a nice render with
> > ones name and some reflectiive sphere will probably not hit them as ... *OHHHH*
> > I must POV .... *sigh*
> >
> > Well, I'm going to be looking for images, and I'll hope to get allowance to use
> > those I find "fitting". If not, too bad for me:-)
--
//Spider
[ spi### [at] bahnhofse ]-[ http://www.bahnhof.se/~spider/ ]
What I can do and what I could do, I just don't know anymore
"Marian"
By: "Sisters Of Mercy"
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
portelli wrote in message <371640A2.6D033785@pilot.msu.edu>...
>>
>> 1)
>> What are the current "cutting edge" techniques too create 3D images?
>> I know of raytracing and scanline rendering. What other techniques exist?
>Realtime rendering, like OpenGl and DirectX. "Cutting Edge"
>techniques? I think the biggest fad is NURBS. Most high end modelers
>have them or a form of them.
NURBS is a modelling technique, not rendering.
But besides raytracing and scanline, the third wide-spread system is
radiosity rendering, mainly used in architectural lighting studies. OpenGL
and Direct3D rendering are, AFAIK, just specialized versions of scanline
(Z-buffer) rendering. Pixar's Rendeman uses their propietary REYES renderer;
I think this is related to scanline, but don't quote me on this.
More than one of the several methods are generally used in (non-realtime)
rendering engines, most common combinations are raytracing+radiosity and
raytracing+scanline.
Margus
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Spider wrote:
>
> Whee, this was a great list.
> Thanx!
>
> Anyone else up for the challenge? (Uncle Ken?)
Burp !
--
Ken Tyler
mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
I can tell you about the renderers and a bit about modelling...
OK, scan line, most commonly used and also sometimes in combination with
raytracing (although the raytracer in the scan line renderer is usually held
within the texturing function...).
Raytracing by itself is not common in high end packages.
Radiosity, well, we all know about this, it's also sometimes incorporated
into scanline renderers (instead of raytracers)
Photon tracers (same as above)
There are some other renderers that just work on atmospheric systems but as
far as I know there are not many of them and they are generally used for
special effects overlays.
You'll find the big companies like ILM, Pixar, Dreamworks etc etc have their
own renderers.
Sub groups of rendering technology:
Atmospheric Fur Simulation, this is something that's pretty new. What it
means in that it uses a special type of atmosphere (or media, whatever the
specific program calls it) to create the look of fur on an object. A lot of
the time this method yeilds excellent results and you only have to look at a
Coca Cola comercial to see that!!! (the ones with the bears anyway :)
When it comes to animation, a new technique has been using "fluid motion"
otherwise known as "soft selections"... Basically what this means is that
once the model has been built you place certain bounding boxes around
specific parts of it and then give it a set of resistence values. Then when
you animate or keyframe the object, it will automatically deform the object
based on the boxes (for example, you could use this to make a dog's ears
flop around as it walked).
Dynamics systems are also becoming more common in animation. The idea is to
set up the object in the scene and give them physical properties like,
density and/or mass (the program will usually calculate this for you anyway,
based on bounding boxes, spheres, cylinders, or mesh grid degradation),
sliding friction, static friction, bounciness (for lack of a better word).
Then effects are applied and object collisions assigned... effects include
gravity (the most common), wind, drives, turbines, forces (general
directional forces) etc etc. Also linkages are assigned through IK. The
Dynamics system can then calculate the object collisions etc etc...
NURBS modelling is very complex. It is part of nearly all high end systems
and allows the user to create very complex and organic models that have
adaptive degradation. They use splines to create surfaces and from there,
there are many ways to go about clipping sections etc... some of the method
for creating surfaces are sweeps, extrudes, rail sweeps, bi-rail sweeps,
offset surfaces, blend surfaces etc etc. NURBS are usually classified into
two parts, point NURBS and CV NURBS. Both have their advantages and
disadvantages, and the main difference is the way in which the surface is
calculated based on the spline points (whether it averages the points, or
whether it makes the surface pass through each point). Weighting can be
applied to a point individiually... Curve approximation can be either
adaptive, steped or optimised. The surface itself is approximated by a
number of methods and degradated from there using one of the following:
Grid degradation (uses a grid array to find the points which lie on the
surface), angle degradation (uses a minimum and maximum angle to work out
where it has to interpolate the surface more), ISO degradation (I don't
understand this one so I wont try to explain it in great detail, but it is
to do with the surface continuity). As I said, they're complex...
Particle systems are becoming more advanced. The newest development (which
was used first in such movies as Dante's Peak and Volcano) is a method of
combining atmospherics with particles. The way it works is that it builds a
small atmosphere around each particle in the system. Each atmosphere reacts
to the particle's movement, speed, direction, rotation and life (for
example, changing color or density over time). This can be used to make
VERY advanced looking dust and smoke streams as well as fire and lava.
OK, that's it from me for the moment, I can tell you heaps more (and I will)
but I've got to go to school!!!
--
Lance.
---
For the latest 3D Studio MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone
For a totally different experience, visit my Chroma Key Website:
Colorblind - http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/parallax/359/colorblind
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On item I haven't seen mentioned here is Volumetric Rendering. Normally in
rendered 3D images what you see if light reflected off the surfaces of 3D
objects. Sometimes they have assigned transmittance or filtering properties
that allows light to go through them but the details of their internal
structure (particularly with respect to the overall 3D entity) are not well
represented.
Some of the recent stuff I have done with POV (like molecular media) is a
combination of volume rendering (i.e. media) and surfaces. However,
volumetric rendering is still in its infancy due to the enormous cpu
requirements for rendering every point in a (for example) a 1Kx1Kx1K array
(i.e. 1 million points).
Here are some links that will give you some insight into current products/
methods
http://ww.vaytek.com
http://www.volumegraphics.com
http://www.scioncorp.com/frames/fr_scion_products.htm
http://www.che.ufl.edu/visualize/technique/Scaler/volume.html
http://www.protospace.com/~calkinsc/graphics/vol/index.htm
http://www.alphatecltd.com/eik3dres.html
http://www.smisoft.ssd.co.jp/product/ts/volumetricR.html
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/scivis/tutorial/linked/volumevis.html
disclaimer:
I haven't been to all these sites. Hope they help.
--
Jim
Check out my web site http://www.kressworks.com/
It'll blow your mind (politically), stimulate your senses (artistically)
and provide scientific insights beyond compare!
Be sure to read the Warp maintained POV VFAQ:
http://iki.fi/warp/povVFAQ.html
Spider wrote in message <3715F3B8.CEDA2ED5@bahnhof.se>...
>Ok, I've been povving for a while now, and I think most of you know that
I'm not
>very capable :-)
>Well, I have some questions for a pice of work in a class on presentation
>techniques..
>I humbly come to you, people of pov, to ask for your aid in this.
>My questions are in the field of 3D graphics and raytracing in specific.
>
>1)
>What are the current "cutting edge" techniques too create 3D images?
>I know of raytracing and scanline rendering. What other techniques exist?
>
>2)
>3D packages, prices for theese(full retail prices) as well as the technique
they
>are based on.
>
>3)
>explination of the other concepts in 3D graphics.(I for one don't know what
>NURBS is, this and other things are what I would like to know of)
>
>4)
>Good examples of POV in different usages..
>--
>
>Ok, I know it sounds like I''m trying to get you to do my work, but, I'm
not. I
>have some ideas and even more facts about the packages and techniques, but
I
>want to have more solid facts(and thoughts) on the subject, since I feel
that I
>may have several misunderstandings of facts..
>
>I'd be glad for any help from the group, thankyou.
>
>
>--
>//Spider
> [ spi### [at] bahnhofse ]-[ http://www.bahnhof.se/~spider/ ]
>What I can do and what I could do, I just don't know anymore
> "Marian"
> By: "Sisters Of Mercy"
>
>
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
...
> volumetric rendering is still in its infancy due to the enormous cpu
> requirements for rendering every point in a (for example) a 1Kx1Kx1K array
> (i.e. 1 million points).
...
Err, isn't that 1 billion?!? Either way its way more than I've got fingers
and toes.
--Rainer
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
