Twyst wrote:
> My bad. I forgot to mention that I'm not in this for the money. Any profits
> that would come out of this, would A) go to pay for publishing, and B) go to
> the pov-team, for stuff like webspace (Don't want another scare, now, do
> we?)

And perhaps free copies to big contributors?
And even if not, count me in. I'd be happy to help with fact checking,
etc.

Phoenix

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Twyst wrote:

>
> ... In others, it's very sparse (Vectors, media, etc,etc)
>

> Also, does anyone here actually use/understand the graphs they give (like
> for the scattering types)

Yup, i'm a physicist.   Such things I understand well in my sleep.   I'd be
happy to explain scattering, quilt patterns, and whatnot in non-math terms,
with plenty of pictures.


> -- Yes, it can be useful, but without a detailed
> explanation ( in layman's terms, not mathematical) It's pretty useless to
> me. I usually just skip right over them.
> Renderings SHOWING the effects of the different settings would be far more
> useful, imho.

An excellent idea.   The official POV docs show a nice series of images to
explain some things, but whoa! is it lacking in others.    For a long time
I've been wanting to make a table of superellipsoid settings and their
results.   I've been too lazy to actually do this, but now, Lance, you have
made the call for this Great Project, so now I will get real about this.

---
Daren Scot Wilson
dar### [at] pipelinecom
www.newcolor.com
"A ship...etc"  (just reinstalled linux, still haven't restored my email
signature file)

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Oh dang, I said "Lance" when I meant to say "Twyst" - I should break this bad
habit of having fifteen windows up, reading several threads of newsgroups,
emails, etc. all at the same time..   My poor little brain isn't as
multitasking as I thought...

Daren S. Wilson

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Dan Connelly wrote:

>
> Still, these examples are not extremely well organized.  A coherent
> framework might prove useful.

Being a geek, I find it natural to go spelunking through examples and
reference manuals, but even I often get stuck on something and want to
quickly look up the syntax, the correct spelling, etc.   So a
concept-oriented organization would be very useful.   Rending of existing
examples is not enough - a discussion of these examples is needed.  Yet I'd
skip that, as someone learning POV-Ray or an experienced artist needing to
use an unusual feature would want examples tuned to just that concept.
Combining too many concepts in one example makes it hard to distinguish them.

OTOH, this does not mean that every image that illustrates a concept should
be simple.   Example .pov files should be kept simple, but other images that
show specific concepts, for example, how superellipsoid shapes vary with its
parameters, should be made easy for the eyes to take in, and that may mean
using more than simple lighting and textures.

In short, i see the need for different kinds of images  (1) those that are
tutorial examples of POV-Ray coding, which must be kept simple, and (2) Those
that illustrate various concepts, whose .pov source are not to be shown to
the end user (unless they're very curious).

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Ken wrote:

> > Areas I feel need covered:
> >
> >  1. Media
> >  2. Animation
> >  3. Radiosity
> >  4. The Texture and Pigment process
> >  5. Conditional statments
> >  6. What is in and what is out (the Pov surface normal)
> >  7. CSG operations - goes with above
> >  8. The camera statement - Seems simple now but there was a time ...
> >  9. When to use an external program, include file, etc...
> > 10. How to convert the output from the above to useful syntax in Pov
> > 11. Macros !!!
> 12. Blobs !!!

When I first began, I wanted:

* How to organize your .pov file  (there being many ways, of course, but
how hard it was to come up with even just one way!)
* pigments with nozero filter and transmit values - I had some weird
troubles with these, even after one year of use.  (Turned out they were
acting weird due to bugs I had in my old dispersion hacks.)
* A lighting tutorial.  Sure, the existing docs explain the light_source
syntax, but I haven't seen anything anywhere, well, one short web page,
on the artistic aspects of using lights.   Basic photographic lighting
techniques and some theater lighting tips would be so helpful to many
POV-Ray artists.
* Colors - choosing harmonious, pleasant colors comes natural to most
artists, but few can translate them mentally into RGB.  So let's add some
basic color theory, and how to tweak colors in a scene you're almost
happy with.


Daren Scot Wilson
dar### [at] pipelinecom
www.newcolor.com
Still w/o a  real .signature file....so dont' trust the spelling of my
email address.

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Twyst wrote:
> 
> I had a great idea recently...
> 
> Do a "User Documentation Project"!

Okay...
I think it's save to say there is an audience for such a project. I now
only have one question left:
    "When do we begin?"

Phoenix

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Great Idea! I agree wholeheartedly. Even though I am not a regular contributor
to this group, I read it daily. Another project that I would like to do, and it
is related somewhat to your idea, is to create an archive of the problems and
solutions that appear in these newsgroups, with explanations on the why's and
how's of it all.

Going through this newsgroup isn't a problem, but I certainly don't want to
duplicate anybody's efforts. Has someone done this already?

Josh English
eng### [at] spiritonecom
www.spiritone.com/~english

Twyst wrote:

> I had a great idea recently...
>
> Do a "User Documentation Project"!
>
> I had the idea while noticing that the Pov-Ray docs, while complete, didn't
> go into much detail in certain cases, and there are people that DO know
> certain aspects very well. (John VanSickle comes to mind....).
>
> It seems to me that much of the manual could do with expanding on topics
> (Media is one example) and tutorials.
>
> So, here's the complete idea:
> 1. With the pov-team's permission (please, can we?), rewrite the pov-ray
> docs.
> 2. Make it available in a number of formats, from plain text to PDF format.
> 3. I would ALSO like to be able to publish a spiral bound volume, and sell
> it at a minimal cost.
> 4. I intend for this to be a "group" project. It's a daunting task for a
> single person.
>
> Twyst
> =====================================
> twysted mynd - for pov-ray news, reviews, and tutorials
> http://twysted.net
> e-mail: twy### [at] twystednet
> =====================================

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Josh English wrote:
> 
> Going through this newsgroup isn't a problem, but I certainly don't want to
> duplicate anybody's efforts. Has someone done this already?
> 
> Josh English

 Not an all encompasing faq but Warp has a list of very frequently
asked questions faq at:

http://www.students.tut.fi/~warp/povVFAQ.html

  It covers many of the basics but there is room for improvement.
Problem I see with compiling all of the questions and answeres
is that many are specific to a given scene and are not general
in content. To be effective the list must anticipate what's
going to be asked and have an easily indexed set of answers.
If it is overly comprehensive i.e. it has every question and
answer listed in these groups it would not only be huge it would
in all likelyhood become difficult to extract the specific
information a person is looking for.

 I'm not saying it wouldn't be a worth while project but I would
hate to be the one to have to weigh what should and should not be
included and how many of the answers are worth while or uninformed.
Probably take over an hour to do the job right.

-- 
Ken Tyler

tyl### [at] pacbellnet

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dar### [at] pipelinecom wrote:
<snip>
> For a long time
> I've been wanting to make a table of superellipsoid settings and their
> results.   I've been too lazy to actually do this, but now, Lance, you have
> made the call for this Great Project, so now I will get real about this.

Take a look at this,
http://isg.cs.tcd.ie/kennedys/raytracing/gallery/superquadric.jpg
I think this is what you are looking for. The site is the some examples
from someones raytracing thesis.
-- 
Chris Maryan
mailto:cma### [at] geocitiescom
***
Will work for cash.
***
Email me if you are interested in donating
to the Chris Maryan needs money fund.
We will also accept donations to the Chris
needs a Pentium II or SGI workstation 
fund and the Chris needs a car fund.

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dar### [at] pipelinecom wrote in message <36896B55.D609E985@pipeline.com>...

>
>Yup, i'm a physicist.   Such things I understand well in my sleep.   I'd be
>happy to explain scattering, quilt patterns, and whatnot in non-math terms,
>with plenty of pictures.
>

Yay! (Twyst sneaks over, ties Daren up, and makes him tell all he knows)
>
>> -- Yes, it can be useful, but without a detailed
>> explanation ( in layman's terms, not mathematical) It's pretty useless to
>> me. I usually just skip right over them.
>> Renderings SHOWING the effects of the different settings would be far
more
>> useful, imho.
>
>An excellent idea.   The official POV docs show a nice series of images to
>explain some things, but whoa! is it lacking in others.    For a long time
>I've been wanting to make a table of superellipsoid settings and their
>results.   I've been too lazy to actually do this, but now, Lance, you have
>made the call for this Great Project, so now I will get real about this.

Go to, go to!

Oh ya. I'm not Lance. =)


>
>---
>Daren Scot Wilson
>dar### [at] pipelinecom
>www.newcolor.com
>"A ship...etc"  (just reinstalled linux, still haven't restored my email
>signature file)
>

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