This is coming on very nicely indeed. Good progress!

I have a couple of (minor) comments.

- Nitpicking. The rod from the farthest ceiling fixture aligns too well 
with the frame edge of the portrait over the mantelpiece. This is not 
vital but it catches the eyes (mine at least). just shift the camera, or 
the frame, or the lamp a little bit, whichever is best.

- The big mirror over the couch seem a bit flat to me.

- the carpet could use a bit of (more) thickness/fluffiness.

- The lighting of the scene. Much better than before but I am not sure 
where the light is coming from now. Somewhere in between the two light 
fixtures? In the final version I suppose you will light the lamps 
themselves?

- The tunnel entrance. Shouldn't there not be some way to show /how/ the 
entrance is closed? I suppose there should be some notches along the 
edges for the missing boards. Nitpicking: The floor boards being aligned 
parallel to the entrance, the closing lid must be especially reinforced 
in order to remain rigid when somebody walks over it ;-)

- Detail. Could you give the painting of the lady with the flowers some 
painterly aspect? It looks too much like a photograph to me but that 
might be the effect of the distance. Impressionism would be the way to 
go for the time period and the subject matter.

Thomas

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"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> I must admit - the radiosity is a very nice lighting enhancement, and really
> makes the tunnel look much better and gives much better definition to many of
> the objects in the room.

Radiosity is almost always a dramatic improvement.  It gives depth to shadowed
areas.  Ambient occlusion (which falls out of radiosity) is a part of life, and
scenes look flat without it.

> Please chime in with constructive criticism - [snip]
>
> So, I'm looking to hear about what I can do to really raise the level of quality
> since I think I'm done modeling the bulk of the _things_ and can begin shifting
> more of my focus to the crafting of textures normals and finishes, camera angle,
> lighting, radiosity, HDRI lighting, media, etc.

The mirror on the left is too flush with the wall, and the reflection is too
cloudy (unless you intend it to be a very dingy mirror).

If that's sunlight coming through the door on the right, it needs to be /a lot/
stronger.

With the floor flush with the walls of the passage, how does the lid support
itself?

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>The rod from the farthest ceiling fixture...

I'll see what I can do about that.

> - The big mirror over the couch seem a bit flat to me.

It does, doesn't it.  It actually does have depth, but for some reason this
camera angle makes it look bad.

> - the carpet could use a bit of (more) thickness/fluffiness.

Yes, I need to do something with that for sure.

> - The lighting of the scene. Much better than before but I am not sure
> where the light is coming from now. Somewhere in between the two light
> fixtures? In the final version I suppose you will light the lamps
> themselves?
Correct.  My "WIP light".  I'm going to take a stab at getting those ceiling
lamps illuminated from within and see what sort of light they throw.


> - The tunnel entrance. Shouldn't there not be some way to show /how/ the
> entrance is closed? I suppose there should be some notches along the
> edges for the missing boards.
It is a bit mirky as to the mechanism - and there certainly aren't any visual
cues to suggest that where the entrance IS, the carpet USED TO BE.
Here and there I considered doing SOMETHING - I just haven't really latched onto
WHAT.
"Notches" - like tongue-and-groove?

> Nitpicking: The floor boards being aligned
> parallel to the entrance, the closing lid must be especially reinforced
> in order to remain rigid when somebody walks over it ;-)
It's about 2 full inches thick, so I figured that maybe there were
through-dowels or threaded rods or something.
There's actually a small ledge of stone on either side of the tunnel that the
sliding floor panel rests on - I suppose I ought to accentuate that, put a rail,
some rollers, a latch - something

> - Detail. Could you give the painting of the lady with the flowers some
> painterly aspect? It looks too much like a photograph to me but that
> might be the effect of the distance. Impressionism would be the way to
> go for the time period and the subject matter.

Good instinct - I felt it far too "clean" as well - and I like the simu-paint
idea.  I'll have to go back and look over that recent thread.
I hadn't the energy to mess with it prior to rendering it with radiosity since I
had only just emerged from a long and arduous debugging of my
Frame-plus-mirror/picture code.
It still seems a bit lacking and likely needs an overhaul.

Lesson learned: missing or flat-out wrong parentheses and curly braces are
annoying.  MISPLACED curly braces that allow the scene to render but don't give
you what you want can make you question your eyesight and sanity.

Post a reply to this message

"Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:

> The mirror on the left is too flush with the wall, and the reflection is too
> cloudy (unless you intend it to be a very dingy mirror).

I don't know why that is, since it should be exactly the same texture as the
mirror in the back left corner.
From an earlier state:
http://postimg.org/image/omlhifip1/

> If that's sunlight coming through the door on the right, it needs to be /a lot/
> stronger.

Yes, lighting is indeed something that's only been done with makeshift
"worklights"  up until now - and so begins a whole new phase of learning and
experimentation.

> With the floor flush with the walls of the passage, how does the lid support
> itself?

"CG magic."  ;)

(See above - it has an inadequately visible ledge.)

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On 29-10-2014 16:21, Bald Eagle wrote:

>> - Detail. Could you give the painting of the lady with the flowers some
>> painterly aspect? It looks too much like a photograph to me but that
>> might be the effect of the distance. Impressionism would be the way to
>> go for the time period and the subject matter.
>
> Good instinct - I felt it far too "clean" as well - and I like the simu-paint
> idea.  I'll have to go back and look over that recent thread.

You can do that also in GIMP quite easily.

>
> Lesson learned: missing or flat-out wrong parentheses and curly braces are
> annoying.  MISPLACED curly braces that allow the scene to render but don't give
> you what you want can make you question your eyesight and sanity.

Yes, that is nasty indeed.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Lesson learned: missing or flat-out wrong parentheses and curly braces are
> annoying.  MISPLACED curly braces that allow the scene to render but don't give
> you what you want can make you question your eyesight and sanity.

Word.

Post a reply to this message

On 28/10/2014 15:20, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Current state of the WIP:
>


Thanks for sharing this WIP. This version is expanding and fulfilling 
your initial post. It is a joy to watch.
And I have noticed that people who do what you are doing get better 
images in the end.

I disagree with all the comments about the "hidden" passage. I think 
that you have got it just right. It is magical, you know. And doesn't 
need to be realistic.

But I think the carpet should be scaled a bit wider and the floorboards 
changed a bit. They look like laminate. If you look at the floorboards 
in Warp's Tips http://warp.povusers.org/povtips/ you will see what I mean.

Anyway, great work so far. :-)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:

> And I have noticed that people who do what you are doing....

Rough layout and then piecewise elaboration and improvement?

> I disagree with all the comments about the "hidden" passage. I think
> that you have got it just right. It is magical, you know. And doesn't
> need to be realistic.
>
> But I think the carpet should be scaled a bit wider

I have sort of wondered exactly how this was supposed to work:

The whole of the centre of the floor had disappeared into the wall opposite to
the fireplace, and the rough steps led down into a kind of passage that ran in
the direction of the unfinished house.  "This is the entrance," said Jennings,
"it works from a concealed button on the wall.  Electricity is used.  You see
why the sides of the floor are left bare; the carpet has quite disappeared.

Trying to translate this gadget from the book into something visual, I recall a
quote from someone working on the movie Jacob's Ladder speaking to the author -
"Just tell me one thing: How may carpenters do I need to build "the void"?

>and the floorboards
> changed a bit. They look like laminate. If you look at the floorboards
> in Warp's Tips http://warp.povusers.org/povtips/ you will see what I mean.

I started out by copy-pasting his code - I think perhaps it's the scale of the
texturing, the distance of the camera from the floor, or the smoothness of the
floorboards that may give rise to that effect.  I've got a few things that I'm
modifying in the floor code, so I think that will incrementally improve as I
work through all the facets to weed out all of the glitches and artefacts, and
polish things up.

> Anyway, great work so far. :-)

Thanks very much, Stephen - a lot of the things I've played with in the past
have been a bit simplistic, and I've often looked at the work of the Masters
here and wondered how I would ever do anything like THAT, so it means a lot to
hear that I'm catching on.

So here I am, 1900 lines, a dozen include files, and a WIP directory with over
500 files and >150MB of sample images, etc....   and maybe a little carpal
tunnel inflammation  ;)

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On 30/10/2014 02:59, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
>
>> And I have noticed that people who do what you are doing....
>
> Rough layout and then piecewise elaboration and improvement?
>

That too but I really meant exposing your early WIPs to public scrutiny 
and criticism.
One advantage, other than the practical help. Is that as we see the 
piece develop, we become involved and have a greater appreciation of it. 
Which translates into a higher score.


>> I disagree with all the comments about the "hidden" passage. I think
>> that you have got it just right. It is magical, you know. And doesn't
>> need to be realistic.
>>
>> But I think the carpet should be scaled a bit wider
>
> I have sort of wondered exactly how this was supposed to work:
>
> The whole of the centre of the floor had disappeared into the wall opposite to
> the fireplace, and the rough steps led down into a kind of passage that ran in
> the direction of the unfinished house.  "This is the entrance," said Jennings,
> "it works from a concealed button on the wall.  Electricity is used.  You see
> why the sides of the floor are left bare; the carpet has quite disappeared.
>
> Trying to translate this gadget from the book into something visual, I recall a
> quote from someone working on the movie Jacob's Ladder speaking to the author -
> "Just tell me one thing: How may carpenters do I need to build "the void"?
>
The answer is, if you believe your bible, One and his dad. ;-)
One thing I have noticed is that Povs cameras do not match the "mind's 
eye" camera. Sometimes what authors write cannot be realised in reality. 
So you can only show what you think works.



> I started out by copy-pasting his code - I think perhaps it's the scale of the
> texturing, the distance of the camera from the floor, or the smoothness of the
> floorboards that may give rise to that effect.  I've got a few things that I'm
> modifying in the floor code, so I think that will incrementally improve as I
> work through all the facets to weed out all of the glitches and artefacts, and
> polish things up.
>

I just mentioned it to add to your list. :-)

>> Anyway, great work so far. :-)
>
> Thanks very much, Stephen - a lot of the things I've played with in the past
> have been a bit simplistic, and I've often looked at the work of the Masters
> here and wondered how I would ever do anything like THAT, so it means a lot to
> hear that I'm catching on.
>

You are and at a fast pace too.

> So here I am, 1900 lines, a dozen include files, and a WIP directory with over
> 500 files and >150MB of sample images, etc....   and maybe a little carpal
> tunnel inflammation  ;)
>

The way of the world. :-)
Recently I transferred all of my PovRay and Poser files from an old 
machine to a new one. It took all night via WiFi. Now I have to do it 
again to a desktop machine.
BTW Did you know that it is possible to type with your elbows?
Another non-standard typing method I have come across is typing with 
your thumb and first two or three fingers pressed together for strength. 
I noticed this when I worked for a newspaper. The "ex-hot metal" 
compositors typed like that.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 30-10-2014 10:12, Stephen wrote:
> On 30/10/2014 02:59, Bald Eagle wrote:
>> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
>>
>>> And I have noticed that people who do what you are doing....
>>
>> Rough layout and then piecewise elaboration and improvement?
>>
>
> That too but I really meant exposing your early WIPs to public scrutiny
> and criticism.
> One advantage, other than the practical help. Is that as we see the
> piece develop, we become involved and have a greater appreciation of it.
> Which translates into a higher score.

...and not to forget, you get stimulated to pay attention to details 
that you may have missed otherwise but which turn out to be quite 
essential in the end.


>> So here I am, 1900 lines, a dozen include files, and a WIP directory
>> with over
>> 500 files and >150MB of sample images, etc....   and maybe a little
>> carpal
>> tunnel inflammation  ;)
>>
>
> The way of the world. :-)
> Recently I transferred all of my PovRay and Poser files from an old
> machine to a new one. It took all night via WiFi. Now I have to do it
> again to a desktop machine.
> BTW Did you know that it is possible to type with your elbows?
> Another non-standard typing method I have come across is typing with
> your thumb and first two or three fingers pressed together for strength.
> I noticed this when I worked for a newspaper. The "ex-hot metal"
> compositors typed like that.
>
Lol! I didn't know that! It reminds me of carillon playing: with fists. 
I have a cousin-in-law who is a professional player and he sometimes 
uses his elbows too :-) Never tried it myself on a keyboard though ;-)

Thomas

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