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From: CAS
Subject: luminance output
Date: 16 Apr 2014 02:55:02
Message: <web.534e2857251103cb6a92a3a00@news.povray.org>
Hello,everyone.I am a student.I am doing my graduation project recently.It is
simulating radiance with ray-tracing.I have done a test with pov.But I am
confronting a error with my result.Could anyboby help me check out my issue.Beg
a hot.I am a student.I am confronting the pressure of graduation.I feel so
worry.I have uploaded the whole process of my test,beg a hot help me!
"pov-xyz"is the location of each sphere.
"pov-ref"is the reflectivity of each sphere.
"pov.exr"is the output image by pov.
I have converted "pov.exr" to "pov.tiff".
"result"is my analyse.My issue was wrote in it.
Expecting somebody help me.Great gratitudes!


Post a reply to this message


Attachments:
Download 'pov-730nm.zip' (1632 KB)

From: scott
Subject: Re: luminance output
Date: 16 Apr 2014 03:45:18
Message: <534e350e@news.povray.org>
> Hello,everyone.I am a student.I am doing my graduation project recently.It is
> simulating radiance with ray-tracing.I have done a test with pov.But I am
> confronting a error with my result.Could anyboby help me check out my issue.Beg
> a hot.I am a student.I am confronting the pressure of graduation.I feel so
> worry.I have uploaded the whole process of my test,beg a hot help me!
> "pov-xyz"is the location of each sphere.
> "pov-ref"is the reflectivity of each sphere.
> "pov.exr"is the output image by pov.
> I have converted "pov.exr" to "pov.tiff".
> "result"is my analyse.My issue was wrote in it.
> Expecting somebody help me.Great gratitudes!

Using a specular highlight on tiny spheres is going to give very 
unpredictable results, the output pixel value will highly depend on 
exactly where the ray hits the sphere compared to the highlight 
position. I zoomed in on your scene and rendered it, see attached, I 
also changed the background colour to red to highlight the spheres 
better. Do you see the problem?

I would use boxes rather than spheres and use diffuse rather than 
specular reflection:

  pigment{color rgb 1}
  finish {
   ambient 0
   diffuse ref
  }
}

That should give much more uniform results and not depend on where each 
ray hits the shapes. I don't know if that will solve your problem or not.


Post a reply to this message


Attachments:
Download 'pov.png' (4 KB)

Preview of image 'pov.png'
pov.png


 

From: scott
Subject: Re: luminance output
Date: 16 Apr 2014 03:58:57
Message: <534e3841$1@news.povray.org>
> position. I zoomed in on your scene and rendered it, see attached

Oops forgot the 1st attachment.


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Attachments:
Download 'pov_red_background.png' (9 KB)

Preview of image 'pov_red_background.png'
pov_red_background.png


 

From: CAS
Subject: Re: luminance output
Date: 16 Apr 2014 12:15:01
Message: <web.534eac5dc34aaa776a92a3a00@news.povray.org>
scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> > Hello,everyone.I am a student.I am doing my graduation project recently.It is
> > simulating radiance with ray-tracing.I have done a test with pov.But I am
> > confronting a error with my result.Could anyboby help me check out my issue.Beg
> > a hot.I am a student.I am confronting the pressure of graduation.I feel so
> > worry.I have uploaded the whole process of my test,beg a hot help me!
> > "pov-xyz"is the location of each sphere.
> > "pov-ref"is the reflectivity of each sphere.
> > "pov.exr"is the output image by pov.
> > I have converted "pov.exr" to "pov.tiff".
> > "result"is my analyse.My issue was wrote in it.
> > Expecting somebody help me.Great gratitudes!
>
> Using a specular highlight on tiny spheres is going to give very
> unpredictable results, the output pixel value will highly depend on
> exactly where the ray hits the sphere compared to the highlight
> position. I zoomed in on your scene and rendered it, see attached, I
> also changed the background colour to red to highlight the spheres
> better. Do you see the problem?
>
> I would use boxes rather than spheres and use diffuse rather than
> specular reflection:
>
>   pigment{color rgb 1}
>   finish {
>    ambient 0
>    diffuse ref
>   }
> }
>
> That should give much more uniform results and not depend on where each
> ray hits the shapes. I don't know if that will solve your problem or not.

I have modified the statements and done a test with your advice.I find the
result changed,but not what I wanted.Besides,I only have 40000 points ,if I used
box as my model, which needs two points to describle,but my input scene is as
"pov.tif".One point stands for one object,corresponding,with a reflectity.If I
used box,may need two point to descible a object,I doublt the scene is not my
wanted.


Post a reply to this message


Attachments:
Download 'pov.tif.dat' (487 KB)

From: Alain
Subject: Re: luminance output
Date: 16 Apr 2014 19:59:52
Message: <534f1978@news.povray.org>

> scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
>>> Hello,everyone.I am a student.I am doing my graduation project recently.It is
>>> simulating radiance with ray-tracing.I have done a test with pov.But I am
>>> confronting a error with my result.Could anyboby help me check out my issue.Beg
>>> a hot.I am a student.I am confronting the pressure of graduation.I feel so
>>> worry.I have uploaded the whole process of my test,beg a hot help me!
>>> "pov-xyz"is the location of each sphere.
>>> "pov-ref"is the reflectivity of each sphere.
>>> "pov.exr"is the output image by pov.
>>> I have converted "pov.exr" to "pov.tiff".
>>> "result"is my analyse.My issue was wrote in it.
>>> Expecting somebody help me.Great gratitudes!
>>
>> Using a specular highlight on tiny spheres is going to give very
>> unpredictable results, the output pixel value will highly depend on
>> exactly where the ray hits the sphere compared to the highlight
>> position. I zoomed in on your scene and rendered it, see attached, I
>> also changed the background colour to red to highlight the spheres
>> better. Do you see the problem?
>>
>> I would use boxes rather than spheres and use diffuse rather than
>> specular reflection:
>>
>>    pigment{color rgb 1}
>>    finish {
>>     ambient 0
>>     diffuse ref
>>    }
>> }
>>
>> That should give much more uniform results and not depend on where each
>> ray hits the shapes. I don't know if that will solve your problem or not.
>
> I have modified the statements and done a test with your advice.I find the
> result changed,but not what I wanted.Besides,I only have 40000 points ,if I used
> box as my model, which needs two points to describle,but my input scene is as
> "pov.tif".One point stands for one object,corresponding,with a reflectity.If I
> used box,may need two point to descible a object,I doublt the scene is not my
> wanted.
>
>
>
>

You can use boxes instead of spheres without doubling the size of your 
file. Curently, you use this code to place your spheres:
sphere {
  <x1-center_x,y1-center_y,z1-center_z>,1.55
  finish { ambient 0
           emission 0
           specular ref
           }
        }

To use box, just use this code:
box{-1.55, 1.55 // reduce slightly is you want to keep some gap.
// The following line is the key...
	translate <x1-center_x,y1-center_y,z1-center_z>
  finish { ambient 0
           emission 0
           specular ref
           }
        }


This will give you boxes with a width identical to the diameter of your 
spheres.

Even beter, make an union containing all your objects:

union{
#fopen   Input_geom_file geom_file_name read
#fopen   Input_spec_file spec_file_name read
#while(defined(Input_geom_file))

     #read(Input_geom_file, X1, Y1, Z1)
     #read(Input_spec_file, Ref)

box{-1.55, 1.55 // reduce slightly is you want to keep some gap.
// The following line is the key...
	translate <X1-Center_X,Y1-Center_Y,Z1-Center_Z>
        }// Remove the texture from the objects
#end
// and apply it to all objects at once
  finish { ambient 0
           emission 0
           specular Ref
           }
}// End of the union

As the variable "n" is never used, I removed it.

Finaly, a general recomendation: In all of your user defined variable, 
use at least ONE upper case letter. This ensure that you don't have any 
conflict with predefined variables and primitive. It also make it clear 
that those are YOUR variables. It can realy help when debugging your code.




Alain


Post a reply to this message

From: CAS
Subject: Re: luminance output
Date: 16 Apr 2014 22:25:00
Message: <web.534f3b05c34aaa776a92a3a00@news.povray.org>
Alain <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:

> > scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> >>> Hello,everyone.I am a student.I am doing my graduation project recently.It is
> >>> simulating radiance with ray-tracing.I have done a test with pov.But I am
> >>> confronting a error with my result.Could anyboby help me check out my issue.Beg
> >>> a hot.I am a student.I am confronting the pressure of graduation.I feel so
> >>> worry.I have uploaded the whole process of my test,beg a hot help me!
> >>> "pov-xyz"is the location of each sphere.
> >>> "pov-ref"is the reflectivity of each sphere.
> >>> "pov.exr"is the output image by pov.
> >>> I have converted "pov.exr" to "pov.tiff".
> >>> "result"is my analyse.My issue was wrote in it.
> >>> Expecting somebody help me.Great gratitudes!
> >>
> >> Using a specular highlight on tiny spheres is going to give very
> >> unpredictable results, the output pixel value will highly depend on
> >> exactly where the ray hits the sphere compared to the highlight
> >> position. I zoomed in on your scene and rendered it, see attached, I
> >> also changed the background colour to red to highlight the spheres
> >> better. Do you see the problem?
> >>
> >> I would use boxes rather than spheres and use diffuse rather than
> >> specular reflection:
> >>
> >>    pigment{color rgb 1}
> >>    finish {
> >>     ambient 0
> >>     diffuse ref
> >>    }
> >> }
> >>
> >> That should give much more uniform results and not depend on where each
> >> ray hits the shapes. I don't know if that will solve your problem or not.
> >
> > I have modified the statements and done a test with your advice.I find the
> > result changed,but not what I wanted.Besides,I only have 40000 points ,if I used
> > box as my model, which needs two points to describle,but my input scene is as
> > "pov.tif".One point stands for one object,corresponding,with a reflectity.If I
> > used box,may need two point to descible a object,I doublt the scene is not my
> > wanted.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> You can use boxes instead of spheres without doubling the size of your
> file. Curently, you use this code to place your spheres:
> sphere {
>   <x1-center_x,y1-center_y,z1-center_z>,1.55
>   finish { ambient 0
>            emission 0
>            specular ref
>            }
>         }
>
> To use box, just use this code:
> box{-1.55, 1.55 // reduce slightly is you want to keep some gap.
> // The following line is the key...
>  translate <x1-center_x,y1-center_y,z1-center_z>
>   finish { ambient 0
>            emission 0
>            specular ref
>            }
>         }
>
>
> This will give you boxes with a width identical to the diameter of your
> spheres.
>
> Even beter, make an union containing all your objects:
>
> union{
> #fopen   Input_geom_file geom_file_name read
> #fopen   Input_spec_file spec_file_name read
> #while(defined(Input_geom_file))
>
>      #read(Input_geom_file, X1, Y1, Z1)
>      #read(Input_spec_file, Ref)
>
> box{-1.55, 1.55 // reduce slightly is you want to keep some gap.
> // The following line is the key...
>  translate <X1-Center_X,Y1-Center_Y,Z1-Center_Z>
>         }// Remove the texture from the objects
> #end
> // and apply it to all objects at once
>   finish { ambient 0
>            emission 0
>            specular Ref
>            }
> }// End of the union
>
> As the variable "n" is never used, I removed it.
>
> Finaly, a general recomendation: In all of your user defined variable,
> use at least ONE upper case letter. This ensure that you don't have any
> conflict with predefined variables and primitive. It also make it clear
> that those are YOUR variables. It can realy help when debugging your code.
>
>
>
>
> Alain


I have changed with your advice,and have a test.but the image is black.Nothing
in my scene.


Post a reply to this message

From: CAS
Subject: Re: luminance output
Date: 16 Apr 2014 22:35:01
Message: <web.534f3d7dc34aaa776a92a3a00@news.povray.org>
Alain <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:

> > scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> >>> Hello,everyone.I am a student.I am doing my graduation project recently.It is
> >>> simulating radiance with ray-tracing.I have done a test with pov.But I am
> >>> confronting a error with my result.Could anyboby help me check out my issue.Beg
> >>> a hot.I am a student.I am confronting the pressure of graduation.I feel so
> >>> worry.I have uploaded the whole process of my test,beg a hot help me!
> >>> "pov-xyz"is the location of each sphere.
> >>> "pov-ref"is the reflectivity of each sphere.
> >>> "pov.exr"is the output image by pov.
> >>> I have converted "pov.exr" to "pov.tiff".
> >>> "result"is my analyse.My issue was wrote in it.
> >>> Expecting somebody help me.Great gratitudes!
> >>
> >> Using a specular highlight on tiny spheres is going to give very
> >> unpredictable results, the output pixel value will highly depend on
> >> exactly where the ray hits the sphere compared to the highlight
> >> position. I zoomed in on your scene and rendered it, see attached, I
> >> also changed the background colour to red to highlight the spheres
> >> better. Do you see the problem?
> >>
> >> I would use boxes rather than spheres and use diffuse rather than
> >> specular reflection:
> >>
> >>    pigment{color rgb 1}
> >>    finish {
> >>     ambient 0
> >>     diffuse ref
> >>    }
> >> }
> >>
> >> That should give much more uniform results and not depend on where each
> >> ray hits the shapes. I don't know if that will solve your problem or not.
> >
> > I have modified the statements and done a test with your advice.I find the
> > result changed,but not what I wanted.Besides,I only have 40000 points ,if I used
> > box as my model, which needs two points to describle,but my input scene is as
> > "pov.tif".One point stands for one object,corresponding,with a reflectity.If I
> > used box,may need two point to descible a object,I doublt the scene is not my
> > wanted.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> You can use boxes instead of spheres without doubling the size of your
> file. Curently, you use this code to place your spheres:
> sphere {
>   <x1-center_x,y1-center_y,z1-center_z>,1.55
>   finish { ambient 0
>            emission 0
>            specular ref
>            }
>         }
>
> To use box, just use this code:
> box{-1.55, 1.55 // reduce slightly is you want to keep some gap.
> // The following line is the key...
>  translate <x1-center_x,y1-center_y,z1-center_z>
>   finish { ambient 0
>            emission 0
>            specular ref
>            }
>         }
>
>
> This will give you boxes with a width identical to the diameter of your
> spheres.
>
> Even beter, make an union containing all your objects:
>
> union{
> #fopen   Input_geom_file geom_file_name read
> #fopen   Input_spec_file spec_file_name read
> #while(defined(Input_geom_file))
>
>      #read(Input_geom_file, X1, Y1, Z1)
>      #read(Input_spec_file, Ref)
>
> box{-1.55, 1.55 // reduce slightly is you want to keep some gap.
> // The following line is the key...
>  translate <X1-Center_X,Y1-Center_Y,Z1-Center_Z>
>         }// Remove the texture from the objects
> #end
> // and apply it to all objects at once
>   finish { ambient 0
>            emission 0
>            specular Ref
>            }
> }// End of the union
>
> As the variable "n" is never used, I removed it.
>
> Finaly, a general recomendation: In all of your user defined variable,
> use at least ONE upper case letter. This ensure that you don't have any
> conflict with predefined variables and primitive. It also make it clear
> that those are YOUR variables. It can realy help when debugging your code.
>
>
>
>
> Alain

I have 40000 points.It stands for 40000 surfaces.Corresponding,there is 40000
reflecities.Irradiance(w/m^2) is my real solar engry.I expect the result is
radiance(w/m^2*str)or luminance(cd/m^2),but I donot know what it is?And how can
I get my desired?


Post a reply to this message

From: CAS
Subject: Re: luminance output
Date: 16 Apr 2014 22:55:01
Message: <web.534f41adc34aaa776a92a3a00@news.povray.org>
"CAS" <sup### [at] cstnetcn> wrote:
> Alain <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:

> > > scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> > >>> Hello,everyone.I am a student.I am doing my graduation project recently.It is
> > >>> simulating radiance with ray-tracing.I have done a test with pov.But I am
> > >>> confronting a error with my result.Could anyboby help me check out my
issue.Beg
> > >>> a hot.I am a student.I am confronting the pressure of graduation.I feel so
> > >>> worry.I have uploaded the whole process of my test,beg a hot help me!
> > >>> "pov-xyz"is the location of each sphere.
> > >>> "pov-ref"is the reflectivity of each sphere.
> > >>> "pov.exr"is the output image by pov.
> > >>> I have converted "pov.exr" to "pov.tiff".
> > >>> "result"is my analyse.My issue was wrote in it.
> > >>> Expecting somebody help me.Great gratitudes!
> > >>
> > >> Using a specular highlight on tiny spheres is going to give very
> > >> unpredictable results, the output pixel value will highly depend on
> > >> exactly where the ray hits the sphere compared to the highlight
> > >> position. I zoomed in on your scene and rendered it, see attached, I
> > >> also changed the background colour to red to highlight the spheres
> > >> better. Do you see the problem?
> > >>
> > >> I would use boxes rather than spheres and use diffuse rather than
> > >> specular reflection:
> > >>
> > >>    pigment{color rgb 1}
> > >>    finish {
> > >>     ambient 0
> > >>     diffuse ref
> > >>    }
> > >> }
> > >>
> > >> That should give much more uniform results and not depend on where each
> > >> ray hits the shapes. I don't know if that will solve your problem or not.
> > >
> > > I have modified the statements and done a test with your advice.I find the
> > > result changed,but not what I wanted.Besides,I only have 40000 points ,if I used
> > > box as my model, which needs two points to describle,but my input scene is as
> > > "pov.tif".One point stands for one object,corresponding,with a reflectity.If I
> > > used box,may need two point to descible a object,I doublt the scene is not my
> > > wanted.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You can use boxes instead of spheres without doubling the size of your
> > file. Curently, you use this code to place your spheres:
> > sphere {
> >   <x1-center_x,y1-center_y,z1-center_z>,1.55
> >   finish { ambient 0
> >            emission 0
> >            specular ref
> >            }
> >         }
> >
> > To use box, just use this code:
> > box{-1.55, 1.55 // reduce slightly is you want to keep some gap.
> > // The following line is the key...
> >  translate <x1-center_x,y1-center_y,z1-center_z>
> >   finish { ambient 0
> >            emission 0
> >            specular ref
> >            }
> >         }
> >
> >
> > This will give you boxes with a width identical to the diameter of your
> > spheres.
> >
> > Even beter, make an union containing all your objects:
> >
> > union{
> > #fopen   Input_geom_file geom_file_name read
> > #fopen   Input_spec_file spec_file_name read
> > #while(defined(Input_geom_file))
> >
> >      #read(Input_geom_file, X1, Y1, Z1)
> >      #read(Input_spec_file, Ref)
> >
> > box{-1.55, 1.55 // reduce slightly is you want to keep some gap.
> > // The following line is the key...
> >  translate <X1-Center_X,Y1-Center_Y,Z1-Center_Z>
> >         }// Remove the texture from the objects
> > #end
> > // and apply it to all objects at once
> >   finish { ambient 0
> >            emission 0
> >            specular Ref
> >            }
> > }// End of the union
> >
> > As the variable "n" is never used, I removed it.
> >
> > Finaly, a general recomendation: In all of your user defined variable,
> > use at least ONE upper case letter. This ensure that you don't have any
> > conflict with predefined variables and primitive. It also make it clear
> > that those are YOUR variables. It can realy help when debugging your code.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Alain

I have done a try with your advice,but the image is black.

I have 40000 points.It stands for 40000 surfaces.Corresponding,there is 40000
 reflecities.Irradiance(w/m^2) is my real solar engry.I expect the result is
 radiance(w/m^2*str)or luminance(cd/m^2),but I donot know what it is?And how can
 I get my desired?


Post a reply to this message

From: scott
Subject: Re: luminance output
Date: 17 Apr 2014 03:08:52
Message: <534f7e04$1@news.povray.org>
> I have changed with your advice,and have a test.but the image is black.Nothing
> in my scene.

It's always helpful to post the bit of code you changed, otherwise 
nobody has any idea why your image is black, it could many different 
reasons.

This works for me, I also added the rotate command as it seems your 
points are not aligned with the axes:

box
         {
          -1.55,1.55
         rotate y*-30
         translate <x1-center_x,y1-center_y,z1-center_z>
         pigment{color rgb 1}
          finish {
            ambient 0
            diffuse ref
          }

         }

May I ask where you got the "reflection" numbers from in your 
pov-ref.txt file? If I knew where those numbers came from it might help 
trying to figure out what you want to achieve.


Post a reply to this message

From: CAS
Subject: Re: luminance output
Date: 17 Apr 2014 05:20:01
Message: <web.534f9c31c34aaa776a92a3a00@news.povray.org>
Alain <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:

> > scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> >>> Hello,everyone.I am a student.I am doing my graduation project recently.It is
> >>> simulating radiance with ray-tracing.I have done a test with pov.But I am
> >>> confronting a error with my result.Could anyboby help me check out my issue.Beg
> >>> a hot.I am a student.I am confronting the pressure of graduation.I feel so
> >>> worry.I have uploaded the whole process of my test,beg a hot help me!
> >>> "pov-xyz"is the location of each sphere.
> >>> "pov-ref"is the reflectivity of each sphere.
> >>> "pov.exr"is the output image by pov.
> >>> I have converted "pov.exr" to "pov.tiff".
> >>> "result"is my analyse.My issue was wrote in it.
> >>> Expecting somebody help me.Great gratitudes!
> >>
> >> Using a specular highlight on tiny spheres is going to give very
> >> unpredictable results, the output pixel value will highly depend on
> >> exactly where the ray hits the sphere compared to the highlight
> >> position. I zoomed in on your scene and rendered it, see attached, I
> >> also changed the background colour to red to highlight the spheres
> >> better. Do you see the problem?
> >>
> >> I would use boxes rather than spheres and use diffuse rather than
> >> specular reflection:
> >>
> >>    pigment{color rgb 1}
> >>    finish {
> >>     ambient 0
> >>     diffuse ref
> >>    }
> >> }
> >>
> >> That should give much more uniform results and not depend on where each
> >> ray hits the shapes. I don't know if that will solve your problem or not.
> >
> > I have modified the statements and done a test with your advice.I find the
> > result changed,but not what I wanted.Besides,I only have 40000 points ,if I used
> > box as my model, which needs two points to describle,but my input scene is as
> > "pov.tif".One point stands for one object,corresponding,with a reflectity.If I
> > used box,may need two point to descible a object,I doublt the scene is not my
> > wanted.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> You can use boxes instead of spheres without doubling the size of your
> file. Curently, you use this code to place your spheres:
> sphere {
>   <x1-center_x,y1-center_y,z1-center_z>,1.55
>   finish { ambient 0
>            emission 0
>            specular ref
>            }
>         }
>
> To use box, just use this code:
> box{-1.55, 1.55 // reduce slightly is you want to keep some gap.
> // The following line is the key...
>  translate <x1-center_x,y1-center_y,z1-center_z>
>   finish { ambient 0
>            emission 0
>            specular ref
>            }
>         }
>
>
> This will give you boxes with a width identical to the diameter of your
> spheres.
>
> Even beter, make an union containing all your objects:
>
> union{
> #fopen   Input_geom_file geom_file_name read
> #fopen   Input_spec_file spec_file_name read
> #while(defined(Input_geom_file))
>
>      #read(Input_geom_file, X1, Y1, Z1)
>      #read(Input_spec_file, Ref)
>
> box{-1.55, 1.55 // reduce slightly is you want to keep some gap.
> // The following line is the key...
>  translate <X1-Center_X,Y1-Center_Y,Z1-Center_Z>
>         }// Remove the texture from the objects
> #end
> // and apply it to all objects at once
>   finish { ambient 0
>            emission 0
>            specular Ref
>            }
> }// End of the union
>
> As the variable "n" is never used, I removed it.
>
> Finaly, a general recomendation: In all of your user defined variable,
> use at least ONE upper case letter. This ensure that you don't have any
> conflict with predefined variables and primitive. It also make it clear
> that those are YOUR variables. It can realy help when debugging your code.
>
>
>
>
> Alain

Hello,I want to ask a question:
"try
 {
  Imf::RgbaChannels channels;
  if (options.grayscale)
   if (use_alpha)
    channels = WRITE_YA; // only write luminance & alpha
   else
    channels = WRITE_Y; // only write luminance
  else
   if (use_alpha)
    channels = WRITE_RGBA; // write RGB & alpha
   else
    channels = WRITE_RGB; // write RGB"

this is a part of resource code in openexr.cpp,I want to write luminance
only,how can I set some parameters in pov?


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