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Am 18.08.2020 um 19:46 schrieb Alain Martel:
>
>> Thank you both for your suggestions. May be the addition of an other
>> media may cure the problem but I had a lot of difficulties to adjust
>> the media as they are so far and will not risk to disturb them by
>> another one. The other approach proposed by Thomas is the use of a
>> texture_map to the lake similiar to the construction of my sky_sphere.
>> Fortunatelly air has no ripples or waves and is more predictable as
>> water. May be I must have more patience in modellng a filtering disc
>> with a proper scaled hole
>>
>> disc {
>> }
>>
>> Best regards
>> Michael
>>
>
> When working with disc, don't forget that they have an interior that is
> not limited to the visible part.
> Whenever you have media, you need to add hollow to any disc in the scene.
>
> This :
> disc{0 y 10}
> have the same interior as this :
> plane{y 0}
Many thanks,
yes I tested the approach with the disk without the media. I added the
media later.
Best regards
Michael
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Am 18.08.2020 um 09:15 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
> Op 17/08/2020 om 19:11 schreef MichaelJF:
>> Am 17.08.2020 um 08:45 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>>> Op 16/08/2020 om 18:27 schreef Bald Eagle:
>>>> MichaelJF <mi-### [at] t-online de> wrote:
>>>>> I failed to
>>>>> model this thin slice of white in the reflections in the original
>>>>> photography so far. But I think to "forget" it, is a venial sin.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe you can add a cylinder of media that is bisected by the
>>>> water's surface?
>>>> Or layer an AOI texture onto the water?
>>>>
>>>> Other than that, I'd look to prior art in the archives, or in other
>>>> graphics
>>>> groups...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Great job indeed. First thing I thought concerning this issue was:
>>> Tom York's diffuse modulation. Maybe it can help you: see his comment
>>> in the following thread:
>>>
>>>
http://news.povray.org/povray.newusers/thread/%3Cweb.4393311ed86e519e4114da700@news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=338362&toff=650
>>>
>>>
>> Thank you both for your suggestions. May be the addition of an other
>> media may cure the problem but I had a lot of difficulties to adjust
>> the media as they are so far and will not risk to disturb them by
>> another one. The other approach proposed by Thomas is the use of a
>> texture_map to the lake similiar to the construction of my sky_sphere.
>> Fortunatelly air has no ripples or waves and is more predictable as
>> water. May be I must have more patience in modellng a filtering disc
>> with a proper scaled hole
>>
>> disc {
>> }
>>
>> Best regards
>> Michael
>>
>
> Best approach I guess is the one made by Jaime Vives Piqueres. I have
> been working with his code lately for a couple of months (adding foam to
> sea water for instance; see my 'Nature Beyond' thread).
>
> See the following link for the technical aspects:
>
> http://www.ignorancia.org/index.php/galleries/old-images/sea-buoy/
>
Hello Thomas,
you did a very good job in adding foam to Jaime's sea and added a very
nice whale. First I tried an isosurface similiar to Jaime's approach but
I decided against it since it looked to much like sea with storms and
tides and so on and not like a quiet lake.
Best regards
Michael
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Op 18/08/2020 om 20:17 schreef MichaelJF:
> Am 18.08.2020 um 09:15 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>> Op 17/08/2020 om 19:11 schreef MichaelJF:
>>> Am 17.08.2020 um 08:45 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>>>> Op 16/08/2020 om 18:27 schreef Bald Eagle:
>>>>> MichaelJF <mi-### [at] t-onlinede> wrote:
>>>>>> I failed to
>>>>>> model this thin slice of white in the reflections in the original
>>>>>> photography so far. But I think to "forget" it, is a venial sin.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe you can add a cylinder of media that is bisected by the
>>>>> water's surface?
>>>>> Or layer an AOI texture onto the water?
>>>>>
>>>>> Other than that, I'd look to prior art in the archives, or in other
>>>>> graphics
>>>>> groups...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Great job indeed. First thing I thought concerning this issue was:
>>>> Tom York's diffuse modulation. Maybe it can help you: see his
>>>> comment in the following thread:
>>>>
>>>>
http://news.povray.org/povray.newusers/thread/%3Cweb.4393311ed86e519e4114da700@news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=338362&toff=650
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Thank you both for your suggestions. May be the addition of an other
>>> media may cure the problem but I had a lot of difficulties to adjust
>>> the media as they are so far and will not risk to disturb them by
>>> another one. The other approach proposed by Thomas is the use of a
>>> texture_map to the lake similiar to the construction of my
>>> sky_sphere. Fortunatelly air has no ripples or waves and is more
>>> predictable as water. May be I must have more patience in modellng a
>>> filtering disc with a proper scaled hole
>>>
>>> disc {
>>> }
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> Michael
>>>
>>
>> Best approach I guess is the one made by Jaime Vives Piqueres. I have
>> been working with his code lately for a couple of months (adding foam
>> to sea water for instance; see my 'Nature Beyond' thread).
>>
>> See the following link for the technical aspects:
>>
>> http://www.ignorancia.org/index.php/galleries/old-images/sea-buoy/
>>
> Hello Thomas,
>
> you did a very good job in adding foam to Jaime's sea and added a very
> nice whale. First I tried an isosurface similiar to Jaime's approach but
> I decided against it since it looked to much like sea with storms and
> tides and so on and not like a quiet lake.
>
I am beginning to wonder if I understand your problem correctly. It is
the reflection of the Sun's disk on the water surface, isn't it? If so,
this is solved very nicely imo by the finish block of the water and the
finish block only. Jaime uses the following code for his (sea) water
surface:
finish { // borrowed from Christoph Hormann
diffuse 0.5
reflection {
0.0, 1.0
fresnel on
falloff 1
}
conserve_energy
specular 0.8
roughness 0.0035
}
The use of this results in the image attached. My earlier suggestion
about Tom York's diffuse modulation works well on opaque surfaces. I
realise now that it would be difficult to implement correctly on a water
surface.
I am sorry if I confused you with information not entirely up to the point.
--
Thomas
Post a reply to this message
Attachments:
Download 'jvp_sea_kw4.png' (517 KB)
Preview of image 'jvp_sea_kw4.png'
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Am 19.08.2020 um 08:38 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
> Op 18/08/2020 om 20:17 schreef MichaelJF:
>> Am 18.08.2020 um 09:15 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>>> Op 17/08/2020 om 19:11 schreef MichaelJF:
>>>> Am 17.08.2020 um 08:45 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>>>>> Op 16/08/2020 om 18:27 schreef Bald Eagle:
>>>>>> MichaelJF <mi-### [at] t-onlinede> wrote:
>>>>>>> I failed to
>>>>>>> model this thin slice of white in the reflections in the original
>>>>>>> photography so far. But I think to "forget" it, is a venial sin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe you can add a cylinder of media that is bisected by the
>>>>>> water's surface?
>>>>>> Or layer an AOI texture onto the water?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other than that, I'd look to prior art in the archives, or in
>>>>>> other graphics
>>>>>> groups...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Great job indeed. First thing I thought concerning this issue was:
>>>>> Tom York's diffuse modulation. Maybe it can help you: see his
>>>>> comment in the following thread:
>>>>>
>>>>>
http://news.povray.org/povray.newusers/thread/%3Cweb.4393311ed86e519e4114da700@news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=338362&toff=650
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Thank you both for your suggestions. May be the addition of an other
>>>> media may cure the problem but I had a lot of difficulties to adjust
>>>> the media as they are so far and will not risk to disturb them by
>>>> another one. The other approach proposed by Thomas is the use of a
>>>> texture_map to the lake similiar to the construction of my
>>>> sky_sphere. Fortunatelly air has no ripples or waves and is more
>>>> predictable as water. May be I must have more patience in modellng a
>>>> filtering disc with a proper scaled hole
>>>>
>>>> disc {
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> Best regards
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>
>>> Best approach I guess is the one made by Jaime Vives Piqueres. I have
>>> been working with his code lately for a couple of months (adding foam
>>> to sea water for instance; see my 'Nature Beyond' thread).
>>>
>>> See the following link for the technical aspects:
>>>
>>> http://www.ignorancia.org/index.php/galleries/old-images/sea-buoy/
>>>
>> Hello Thomas,
>>
>> you did a very good job in adding foam to Jaime's sea and added a very
>> nice whale. First I tried an isosurface similiar to Jaime's approach
>> but I decided against it since it looked to much like sea with storms
>> and tides and so on and not like a quiet lake.
>>
>
> I am beginning to wonder if I understand your problem correctly. It is
> the reflection of the Sun's disk on the water surface, isn't it? If so,
> this is solved very nicely imo by the finish block of the water and the
> finish block only. Jaime uses the following code for his (sea) water
> surface:
>
>
> The use of this results in the image attached. My earlier suggestion
> about Tom York's diffuse modulation works well on opaque surfaces. I
> realise now that it would be difficult to implement correctly on a water
> surface.
>
> I am sorry if I confused you with information not entirely up to the point.
>
Hi Thomas,
if you look at the photography from the wikipedia you will notice a very
small area of white reflections from the sun from the horizon to the
middle of the reflections at the sea. But I overlooked that in my image
I have a very different angle (sun and camera are at a very lower level)
between sun and camera. If I lift the camera in this scene from y=1 to
y=10 POV displayed the white reflections at the sea. In my setting they
coinside to happen at the land area. Sorry that I led you on a wrong
track. But many thanks anyway.
Best regards
Michael
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Op 19/08/2020 om 19:52 schreef MichaelJF:
> Hi Thomas,
> if you look at the photography from the wikipedia you will notice a very
> small area of white reflections from the sun from the horizon to the
> middle of the reflections at the sea. But I overlooked that in my image
> I have a very different angle (sun and camera are at a very lower level)
> between sun and camera. If I lift the camera in this scene from y=1 to
> y=10 POV displayed the white reflections at the sea. In my setting they
> coinside to happen at the land area. Sorry that I led you on a wrong
> track. But many thanks anyway.
>
My goodness! I confess I can hardly see that narrow band and without you
mentioning it I would have missed it entirely. That is another kettle of
fish indeed. ;-)
--
Thomas
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Am 22.02.2019 um 20:04 schrieb MichaelJF:
> Hi to the crowd,
>
> this image has still a lot of flaws (sun colour and reflections, the
> swan model itself, textures of the cattails) and may be limitations to
> media by POV. media seems to be handling color_maps or density_maps
> different than pigment or texture having no interpolation between the
> map entries but shap edges. This is what I derived in a first attempt.
> Rendering time was a little bit longer (3 weeks).
>
> Best regards
> Michael
>
Hi to the crowd,
here is the final image of my approach to model steam fog. Having lost
all the code from my first postings here, the image developed into
another direction, but I like it better now. May be it can need a little
bit higher amount of dof, but I will not change this so far. Not to hide
some flaws of the Xfrog trees but for the general mood of the image.
In fact, I have no idea if the images of a sunrise are very different
from the images of a sundown. But if I prefer a certain region of this
planet where this scene could be located and where I observed a similiar
scene several years ago, than it must be a sundown because it was a look
to the west. Close to the atlantic ocean a little bit north to the Dune
of Pilat, France. 1985, I rode a bicycle (crafted by myself and not an
engine) from Paris to Orleans, and then along the Loire and to Bordeaux
finally. I remember similiar scences from this journey.
Since swans like to order their feathers with their beaks, I posed the
swan in wings slightly. It was an unrigged free model I found at
https://free3d.com/3d-model/mute-swan-v1--619725.html
The author used the pseudonym "`printable\_models"'.
All plants were modelled with the trial version of Xfrog. If you work
through their tutorials you can create very realistic plants, but there
are still some flaws (obviously repeated textures exp. leafs).
In this image I used the Goldenrod-tutorial by Xfrog but placed scans
from a rotten one I found in a park nearby as textures. The cattails
(Typha latifolia) and trees (Pinus pinaster, the maritime or cluster
pine) I modelled with Xfrog without much help from them. The lower part
of the stem of the pines I modelled after their tree tutorial.
To have a little bit more light in the foreground I misused radiosity by
putting a great gray wall (colour White/2) 20 units (meters) behind the
camera to have some diffuse reflections against the sun. A white wall
was a little bit to bright IMO.
A very important point was to turn off the media interaction within the
radiosity block. In my first image here - the lost approach from last
year - it was turned on and And asked for a second light source. One
ever learns, and Ands question let to the solutionn of this riddle finally.
Render took 12 days, 17 hours and 25 minutes at an Intel Core i9@3.6 Ghz
using all 16 Threats.
Best regards
Michael
Post a reply to this message
Attachments:
Download '20201020_thelonelyswan.jpg' (658 KB)
Preview of image '20201020_thelonelyswan.jpg'
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Le 2020-10-20 à 13:05, MichaelJF a écrit :
> Am 22.02.2019 um 20:04 schrieb MichaelJF:
>> Hi to the crowd,
>>
>> this image has still a lot of flaws (sun colour and reflections, the
>> swan model itself, textures of the cattails) and may be limitations to
>> media by POV. media seems to be handling color_maps or density_maps
>> different than pigment or texture having no interpolation between the
>> map entries but shap edges. This is what I derived in a first attempt.
>> Rendering time was a little bit longer (3 weeks).
>>
>> Best regards
>> Michael
>>
>
> Hi to the crowd,
>
> In fact, I have no idea if the images of a sunrise are very different
> from the images of a sundown. But if I prefer a certain region of this
> planet where this scene could be located and where I observed a similiar
> scene several years ago, than it must be a sundown because it was a look
> to the west. Close to the atlantic ocean a little bit north to the Dune
> of Pilat, France. 1985, I rode a bicycle (crafted by myself and not an
> engine) from Paris to Orleans, and then along the Loire and to Bordeaux
> finally. I remember similiar scences from this journey.
>
Sun rise tend to have a clearer sky and more ground fog.
Sun set tend to not have any fog, but dirtier sky with more smoke and
air borne dust.
This is definitely a Sun rise.
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Am 20.10.2020 um 20:38 schrieb Alain Martel:
> Le 2020-10-20 à 13:05, MichaelJF a écrit :
>> Am 22.02.2019 um 20:04 schrieb MichaelJF:
>>> Hi to the crowd,
>>>
>>> this image has still a lot of flaws (sun colour and reflections, the
>>> swan model itself, textures of the cattails) and may be limitations
>>> to media by POV. media seems to be handling color_maps or
>>> density_maps different than pigment or texture having no
>>> interpolation between the map entries but shap edges. This is what I
>>> derived in a first attempt. Rendering time was a little bit longer (3
>>> weeks).
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> Michael
>>>
>>
>> Hi to the crowd,
>>
>> In fact, I have no idea if the images of a sunrise are very different
>> from the images of a sundown. But if I prefer a certain region of this
>> planet where this scene could be located and where I observed a
>> similiar scene several years ago, than it must be a sundown because it
>> was a look to the west. Close to the atlantic ocean a little bit north
>> to the Dune of Pilat, France. 1985, I rode a bicycle (crafted by
>> myself and not an engine) from Paris to Orleans, and then along the
>> Loire and to Bordeaux finally. I remember similiar scences from this
>> journey.
>>
> Sun rise tend to have a clearer sky and more ground fog.
> Sun set tend to not have any fog, but dirtier sky with more smoke and
> air borne dust.
>
> This is definitely a Sun rise.
Thanks and yes, I observed this kind of fog in the morning at the
moselle first.
Best regards
Michael
Post a reply to this message
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Op 20/10/2020 om 19:05 schreef MichaelJF:
> Am 22.02.2019 um 20:04 schrieb MichaelJF:
>> Hi to the crowd,
>>
>> this image has still a lot of flaws (sun colour and reflections, the
>> swan model itself, textures of the cattails) and may be limitations to
>> media by POV. media seems to be handling color_maps or density_maps
>> different than pigment or texture having no interpolation between the
>> map entries but shap edges. This is what I derived in a first attempt.
>> Rendering time was a little bit longer (3 weeks).
>>
>> Best regards
>> Michael
>>
>
> Hi to the crowd,
>
> here is the final image of my approach to model steam fog. Having lost
> all the code from my first postings here, the image developed into
> another direction, but I like it better now. May be it can need a little
> bit higher amount of dof, but I will not change this so far. Not to hide
> some flaws of the Xfrog trees but for the general mood of the image.
>
> In fact, I have no idea if the images of a sunrise are very different
> from the images of a sundown. But if I prefer a certain region of this
> planet where this scene could be located and where I observed a similiar
> scene several years ago, than it must be a sundown because it was a look
> to the west. Close to the atlantic ocean a little bit north to the Dune
> of Pilat, France. 1985, I rode a bicycle (crafted by myself and not an
> engine) from Paris to Orleans, and then along the Loire and to Bordeaux
> finally. I remember similiar scences from this journey.
>
> Since swans like to order their feathers with their beaks, I posed the
> swan in wings slightly. It was an unrigged free model I found at
>
> https://free3d.com/3d-model/mute-swan-v1--619725.html
>
> The author used the pseudonym "`printable\_models"'.
>
> All plants were modelled with the trial version of Xfrog. If you work
> through their tutorials you can create very realistic plants, but there
> are still some flaws (obviously repeated textures exp. leafs).
>
> In this image I used the Goldenrod-tutorial by Xfrog but placed scans
> from a rotten one I found in a park nearby as textures. The cattails
> (Typha latifolia) and trees (Pinus pinaster, the maritime or cluster
> pine) I modelled with Xfrog without much help from them. The lower part
> of the stem of the pines I modelled after their tree tutorial.
>
> To have a little bit more light in the foreground I misused radiosity by
> putting a great gray wall (colour White/2) 20 units (meters) behind the
> camera to have some diffuse reflections against the sun. A white wall
> was a little bit to bright IMO.
>
> A very important point was to turn off the media interaction within the
> radiosity block. In my first image here - the lost approach from last
> year - it was turned on and And asked for a second light source. One
> ever learns, and Ands question let to the solutionn of this riddle finally.
>
> Render took 12 days, 17 hours and 25 minutes at an Intel Core i9@3.6 Ghz
> using all 16 Threats.
>
> Best regards
> Michael
>
Good work sir. I like the mood (Sunrise indeed, as Alain already wrote;
It is mainly a question of environmental temperature differences at
start or end of day, I guess)
I very often use a grey wall behind the camera, in addition to
radiosity, especially for these kind of scenes. An old photographer's trick?
The media on/off is something I have also been struggling with. It very
much depends on the kind of output one wants to achieve (in addition to
the quite different render time). I generally prefer the 'off' state.
--
Thomas
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MichaelJF wrote on 20/10/2020 19:05:
>
> Render took 12 days, 17 hours and 25 minutes at an Intel Core i9@3.6 Ghz
> using all 16 Threats.
>
> Best regards
> Michael
>
Almost two weeks but well spent: it's an idyllic scene!
Paolo
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