On 16/11/2017 14:13, clipka wrote:
> Am 16.11.2017 um 12:43 schrieb Bald Eagle:
> 
>> I think you miss my point -
>> I was thinking about using the HDR _only_ as a light source - the image wouldn't
>> be visible in the scene at all (unless you had windows).
>> I have very little experience with HDR, so perhaps someone could comment on how
>> that might best be implemented, if at all.
> 
> HDRI illumination is just a poor man's substitute for a proper scene. So
> if you already have a complete room, there's no point in using HDRI for
> illumination. (As a matter of fact it would be counter-productive, as it
> would illuminate the objects in a way that wouldn't match the scenes.)
> 

That's my gut feeling in English.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:

Nice. In the back mirror the wings seems to appear under the hairs...
How did you make this red hair? Meshes?

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Am 16.11.2017 um 16:09 schrieb Bald Eagle:

>> So
>> if you already have a complete room, there's no point in using HDRI for
>> illumination.
> 
> Well...
> I might not go that far - I thought that the whole idea with a light probe was
> the high dynamic range.
> Perhaps there's a way to achieve the same effect with a "proper scene" - but I'd
> probably need a tutorial.

Actually, the primary idea in "high dynamic range light probe" is the
light probe part -- having something for your objects to reflect and be
illuminated by, without having to actually model that something. The
"high dynamic range" part merely solves a bottleneck that limited the
usefulness of light probes, namely the quality at which they could be
stored in image files.

That bottleneck does not exist when your backdrop and illumination
source is a genuine scene rather than just a fancy picture.

As a matter of fact, you're benefiting from POV-Ray's internal high
dynamic range capabilities each time you use a classic light source with
a brightness value above 1. (Or even values below that, if you're using
the "albedo" syntax for specular highlights.)

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On 16/11/2017 19:18, Fractracer wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> 
> Nice. In the back mirror the wings seems to appear under the hairs...
> How did you make this red hair? Meshes?
> 

Yes a standard Poser hair mesh. It takes no account of intersecting with 
other meshes,

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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>
> >>> Is there a way to light the room with HDRI?
> >>> Maybe just surround the room with one and add no_shadow?
> >>
> >> I'm not too keen on that idea. I don't think it would work with three
> >> walls of mirrors.
> >
> > I think you miss my point -
> > I was thinking about using the HDR _only_ as a light source - the
> > image wouldn't be visible in the scene at all (unless you had windows).
>
> I still don't see it for an inside scene. Not going from the HDR images
> I've seen. But if you can find what looks like a suitable one. I'll give
> it a go.
>

Clipka wrote...
> HDRI illumination is just a poor man's substitute for a proper scene. So
> if you already have a complete room, there's no point in using HDRI for
> illumination. (As a matter of fact it would be counter-productive, as it
> would illuminate the objects in a way that wouldn't match the scenes.)

I'm still a virgin when it comes to trying out HDRI... but Clipka's comments
raise some questions for me (or else/maybe they clarify something that I've
always wondered about.)

My assumption of HDRI has always been that it's basically meant to take the
place of scene lights-- and that it's *most* useful for Sun-lit scenes-- i.e., a
light probe image with the Sun actually visible. (OR, something like an indoor
light probe with several candles as the only illumination.) And that the
rendered scene uses the MUCH-brighter Sun (or small candle flames) *as* the
*distinct* light source(s)-- those sources naturally casting scene-object
shadows as if they are actual bright lights-- and with the rest of the light
probe image functioning more or less as a straight environnment map, for the
remaining soft lighting. (Like typical radiosity results when using a
low-dynamic range image on a large sphere.) In other words, the only real reason
for an HDRI light probe would be for its VERY bright lights, relative to the
rest of its image.

That's my own naive understanding, anyway.

For an enclosed room like the dance hall, it seems to me that a typical LDR
image-plus-radiosity would give equally realistic results (unless the room
contained a SUPER-bright light somewhere.)

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Am 11/16/2017 03:59 PM, also sprach Stephen:
> On 16/11/2017 19:18, Fractracer wrote:
>> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
>>
>> Nice. In the back mirror the wings seems to appear under the hairs...
>> How did you make this red hair? Meshes?
>>
> 
> Yes a standard Poser hair mesh. It takes no account of intersecting with 
> other meshes,
> 

That hair looks phenomenal from a distance. I thought you had 
photoshopped it in for a second. ;)

-- 
dik

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On 16-11-2017 13:31, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 16-11-2017 11:24, Stephen wrote:
>> On 16/11/2017 02:23, Bald Eagle wrote:
>>> Enhancements:
> [snip]
>>> I'm sure some of us have some slightly richer looking wood floor 
>>> macros lying
>>> about. ;)
>>>
>> As I implied to Thomas. The studio is a very old scene. At least ten 
>> years old if I made it in Moray. So any contributions are welcome. :-)
> 
> I have a macro, modified from work by Dan Hentschel in 2004. I shall put 
> it in p.b.utilities.
> 

This is what it does.


-- 
Thomas

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Attachments:
Download 'dh_woodfloor_2.png' (495 KB)

Preview of image 'dh_woodfloor_2.png'

On 17/11/2017 07:53, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 16-11-2017 13:31, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 16-11-2017 11:24, Stephen wrote:
>>> On 16/11/2017 02:23, Bald Eagle wrote:
>>>> Enhancements:
>> [snip]
>>>> I'm sure some of us have some slightly richer looking wood floor 
>>>> macros lying
>>>> about. ;)
>>>>
>>> As I implied to Thomas. The studio is a very old scene. At least ten 
>>> years old if I made it in Moray. So any contributions are welcome. :-)
>>
>> I have a macro, modified from work by Dan Hentschel in 2004. I shall 
>> put it in p.b.utilities.
>>
> 
> This is what it does.
> 
> 

That looks good.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 16/11/2017 22:48, Kenneth wrote:
>>
>>>>> Is there a way to light the room with HDRI?
>>>>> Maybe just surround the room with one and add no_shadow?
>>>>
>>>> I'm not too keen on that idea. I don't think it would work with three
>>>> walls of mirrors.
>>>
>>> I think you miss my point -
>>> I was thinking about using the HDR _only_ as a light source - the
>>> image wouldn't be visible in the scene at all (unless you had windows).
>>
>> I still don't see it for an inside scene. Not going from the HDR images
>> I've seen. But if you can find what looks like a suitable one. I'll give
>> it a go.
>>
> 
> Clipka wrote...
>> HDRI illumination is just a poor man's substitute for a proper scene. So
>> if you already have a complete room, there's no point in using HDRI for
>> illumination. (As a matter of fact it would be counter-productive, as it
>> would illuminate the objects in a way that wouldn't match the scenes.)
> 
> I'm still a virgin when it comes to trying out HDRI... but Clipka's comments
> raise some questions for me (or else/maybe they clarify something that I've
> always wondered about.)
> 
> My assumption of HDRI has always been that it's basically meant to take the
> place of scene lights-- and that it's *most* useful for Sun-lit scenes-- i.e., a
> light probe image with the Sun actually visible. (OR, something like an indoor
> light probe with several candles as the only illumination.) And that the
> rendered scene uses the MUCH-brighter Sun (or small candle flames) *as* the
> *distinct* light source(s)-- those sources naturally casting scene-object
> shadows as if they are actual bright lights-- and with the rest of the light
> probe image functioning more or less as a straight environnment map, for the
> remaining soft lighting. (Like typical radiosity results when using a
> low-dynamic range image on a large sphere.) In other words, the only real reason
> for an HDRI light probe would be for its VERY bright lights, relative to the
> rest of its image.
> 
> That's my own naive understanding, anyway.
> 

Mine too.

> For an enclosed room like the dance hall, it seems to me that a typical LDR
> image-plus-radiosity would give equally realistic results (unless the room
> contained a SUPER-bright light somewhere.)
> 
> 
 From what I've seen of studios. They are either at the top of a 
building with large windows and maybe two mirrored walls. Or have no 
windows and rely totally on artificial light. Giving a even a light as 
possible.
I don't think it would work in this scene. But if you find one that 
could be appropriate. I'll run it overnight.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 17/11/2017 05:00, dick balaska wrote:
> Am 11/16/2017 03:59 PM, also sprach Stephen:
>> On 16/11/2017 19:18, Fractracer wrote:
>>> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
>>>
>>> Nice. In the back mirror the wings seems to appear under the hairs...
>>> How did you make this red hair? Meshes?
>>>
>>
>> Yes a standard Poser hair mesh. It takes no account of intersecting 
>> with other meshes,
>>
> 
> That hair looks phenomenal from a distance. I thought you had 
> photoshopped it in for a second. ;)
> 

Yes it does look good. It is a Poser character called Amarseda Hair. I 
had to use extreme settings to get it to go back with as few 
intersections as possible.
There were several girls in my school with hair that colour. Their 
tempers were about the same. ;-)


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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