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On 30-4-2017 18:30, Alain wrote:
> Le 17-04-30 à 07:05, Thomas de Groot a écrit :
>> On 30-4-2017 9:48, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>> In fact, the differences are more subtle. For the cube, compare the
>>> shadows of dragon and egg: their edges show the stone's translucency. In
>>> my next render I hope to show this better.
>>>
>>
>> In this render:
>>
>> - Dragon: no SSLT
>> - Floor: no SSLT
>> - Cube: SSLT with 5*translucency vector (was 2* in earlier example)
>> - Egg: SSLT with 3*translucency vector (was 2* in earlier example)
>>
>> The cube is showing markedly more translucency in the shadows cast on
>> it. I see not much difference in the egg, although if I increase the
>> translucency exaggeratedly (*100 for instance) the effect becomes
>> distorted.
>>
>> Question: In the wiki about SSLT it is said: "The effect doesn't scale
>> with the object". Does this mean that SSLT works in the same way as a
>> scattering media where the amount of scattering has to be compensated
>> for the amount of media object's scale? It appears so to me at least
>> although this is not mentioned in the wiki.
>>
>
> It does work similarly to medias, both emissive, absorbing and scattering.
>
> So, if you scale your scene by 10 and want SSLT to look the same, then
> you need to multiply your SSLT vector by 10. Alternately, you can
> increase mm_per_unit by the same amount in the global_settings block.
>
OK. Only difference would be that with scattering media (for instance)
you have to /divide/ the scattering vector by the scale of the container
to get the same result, but I get the point indeed.
I am a bit wary about the mm_per_unit and prefer not to touch it too
much, especially if different objects have different scales.
--
Thomas
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On 5/1/2017 7:50 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
> I am a bit wary about the mm_per_unit and prefer not to touch it too
> much, especially if different objects have different scales.
Yes Clipka has put the fear of god into us. :-)
I suppose it depends what you intend by scaling the models.
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 1-5-2017 12:08, Stephen wrote:
> On 5/1/2017 7:50 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>
>> I am a bit wary about the mm_per_unit and prefer not to touch it too
>> much, especially if different objects have different scales.
>
> Yes Clipka has put the fear of god into us. :-)
> I suppose it depends what you intend by scaling the models.
>
Indeed, yes. Take my image as example, the dragon is scaled 0.01, the
egg 0.25, the cube is not scaled, and the floor 0.50. It seems best to
use a standard mm_per_unit and change translucency as needed.
--
Thomas
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On 5/1/2017 12:11 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 1-5-2017 12:08, Stephen wrote:
>> On 5/1/2017 7:50 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>>
>>> I am a bit wary about the mm_per_unit and prefer not to touch it too
>>> much, especially if different objects have different scales.
>>
>> Yes Clipka has put the fear of god into us. :-)
>> I suppose it depends what you intend by scaling the models.
>>
>
> Indeed, yes. Take my image as example, the dragon is scaled 0.01, the
> egg 0.25, the cube is not scaled, and the floor 0.50. It seems best to
> use a standard mm_per_unit and change translucency as needed.
>
My understanding is that the mm_per_unit is the world/scene scale
And to add to the confusion (on my part at least) meshes can have an
internal scale and an external one. By internal scale I mean the scaling
you can change in PoseRay before exporting and external is how you
change it in PovRay.
In Blender when using the physics engine the scale should be 1.0. So to
scale a mesh. You need to edit it and scale it there. Otherwise you get
unexpected results.
So if the dragon is an ornament. I would scale it down in PoseRay. If it
is a statue scale it up in PoseRay. Keep the mm_per_unit as the default.
Having said that. I have not used SSLT since its RC3. :-(
So what do I know?
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 5/1/2017 1:06 PM, Stephen wrote:
> On 5/1/2017 12:11 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>
>> Indeed, yes. Take my image as example, the dragon is scaled 0.01, the
>> egg 0.25, the cube is not scaled, and the floor 0.50. It seems best to
>> use a standard mm_per_unit and change translucency as needed.
>>
>
Another thought:
If you use the same material for your three objects. There should be no
difference in the look of the objects. That might be a way to check if I
am talking rubbish or not. And I am talking about meshes not primitives.
--
Regards
Stephen
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Le 17-05-01 à 02:50, Thomas de Groot a écrit :
> On 30-4-2017 18:30, Alain wrote:
>> Le 17-04-30 à 07:05, Thomas de Groot a écrit :
>>> On 30-4-2017 9:48, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>>> In fact, the differences are more subtle. For the cube, compare the
>>>> shadows of dragon and egg: their edges show the stone's
>>>> translucency. In
>>>> my next render I hope to show this better.
>>>>
>>>
>>> In this render:
>>>
>>> - Dragon: no SSLT
>>> - Floor: no SSLT
>>> - Cube: SSLT with 5*translucency vector (was 2* in earlier example)
>>> - Egg: SSLT with 3*translucency vector (was 2* in earlier example)
>>>
>>> The cube is showing markedly more translucency in the shadows cast on
>>> it. I see not much difference in the egg, although if I increase the
>>> translucency exaggeratedly (*100 for instance) the effect becomes
>>> distorted.
>>>
>>> Question: In the wiki about SSLT it is said: "The effect doesn't scale
>>> with the object". Does this mean that SSLT works in the same way as a
>>> scattering media where the amount of scattering has to be compensated
>>> for the amount of media object's scale? It appears so to me at least
>>> although this is not mentioned in the wiki.
>>>
>>
>> It does work similarly to medias, both emissive, absorbing and
>> scattering.
>>
>> So, if you scale your scene by 10 and want SSLT to look the same, then
>> you need to multiply your SSLT vector by 10. Alternately, you can
>> increase mm_per_unit by the same amount in the global_settings block.
>>
>
> OK. Only difference would be that with scattering media (for instance)
> you have to /divide/ the scattering vector by the scale of the container
> to get the same result, but I get the point indeed.
>
> I am a bit wary about the mm_per_unit and prefer not to touch it too
> much, especially if different objects have different scales.
>
You should set it according to the overall scale of your scene.
The default of 10 mean 1 POV unit = 1 cm. Set it to 1000 if your scale
is 1 POV unit = 1 m, and 25.4 for 1 inch = 1 POV unit.
In my suggestion, it would make a scene scalled in cm work in mm. So,
you can change mm_per_unit from it's default of 10 to 1 to reflect the
change in overall scale.
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On 1-5-2017 14:06, Stephen wrote:
> On 5/1/2017 12:11 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 1-5-2017 12:08, Stephen wrote:
>>> On 5/1/2017 7:50 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am a bit wary about the mm_per_unit and prefer not to touch it too
>>>> much, especially if different objects have different scales.
>>>
>>> Yes Clipka has put the fear of god into us. :-)
>>> I suppose it depends what you intend by scaling the models.
>>>
>>
>> Indeed, yes. Take my image as example, the dragon is scaled 0.01, the
>> egg 0.25, the cube is not scaled, and the floor 0.50. It seems best to
>> use a standard mm_per_unit and change translucency as needed.
>>
>
> My understanding is that the mm_per_unit is the world/scene scale
>
> And to add to the confusion (on my part at least) meshes can have an
> internal scale and an external one. By internal scale I mean the scaling
> you can change in PoseRay before exporting and external is how you
> change it in PovRay.
> In Blender when using the physics engine the scale should be 1.0. So to
> scale a mesh. You need to edit it and scale it there. Otherwise you get
> unexpected results.
> So if the dragon is an ornament. I would scale it down in PoseRay. If it
> is a statue scale it up in PoseRay. Keep the mm_per_unit as the default.
> Having said that. I have not used SSLT since its RC3. :-(
> So what do I know?
>
>
This all makes a lot of sense indeed. Generally, I do not build a scene
with a particular scale in mind so I just assemble the elements and let
the observer do the rest. Thus, a landscape can very well be built by
either relatively small elements or by big ones, I do not care as I am
only interested in the final effect.
With SSLT it seems I have to be much more careful.... ;-)
--
Thomas
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On 2-5-2017 5:57, Alain wrote:
[snip]
>
> You should set it according to the overall scale of your scene.
> The default of 10 mean 1 POV unit = 1 cm. Set it to 1000 if your scale
> is 1 POV unit = 1 m, and 25.4 for 1 inch = 1 POV unit.
>
> In my suggestion, it would make a scene scalled in cm work in mm. So,
> you can change mm_per_unit from it's default of 10 to 1 to reflect the
> change in overall scale.
>
>
As I wrote in my answer to Stephen, I am shamefully negligent about
overall scales and just throw together elements to be brewed in the same
pot. I need to be a bit more careful if I want to include SSLT. :-)
--
Thomas
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On 5/2/2017 7:48 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>
>>
>
> This all makes a lot of sense indeed.
Gosh! a first. :-)
> Generally, I do not build a scene
> with a particular scale in mind so I just assemble the elements and let
> the observer do the rest.
I'm the same. I tend to build my scenes small. For some reason I don't
like wasting Pov space. Which means I use a lot of decimals but decimals
are cheap.
> Thus, a landscape can very well be built by
> either relatively small elements or by big ones, I do not care as I am
> only interested in the final effect.
I tend to use Poser figures as a reference. Michael is about six feet,
in my mind.
>
> With SSLT it seems I have to be much more careful.... ;-)
>
I am sure if Clikpa were about. He would agree. ;-)
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 2-5-2017 9:25, Stephen wrote:
> On 5/2/2017 7:48 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> This all makes a lot of sense indeed.
>
> Gosh! a first. :-)
Really?
>
>> Generally, I do not build a scene
>> with a particular scale in mind so I just assemble the elements and let
>> the observer do the rest.
>
> I'm the same. I tend to build my scenes small. For some reason I don't
> like wasting Pov space. Which means I use a lot of decimals but decimals
> are cheap.
They are indeed. However, I try to avoid too small ones. They are more
difficult to find when they drop to the floor. :-)
>
>
>> Thus, a landscape can very well be built by
>> either relatively small elements or by big ones, I do not care as I am
>> only interested in the final effect.
>
> I tend to use Poser figures as a reference. Michael is about six feet,
> in my mind.
Typically, I scale the figures to the environment they are to live in. :-)
>
>>
>> With SSLT it seems I have to be much more careful.... ;-)
>>
>
> I am sure if Clikpa were about. He would agree. ;-)
>
>
Ah! The Clipka! He seems to have gone on holiday? Shame. He /knows/ he
cannot go without our permission. ;-)
--
Thomas
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