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> I agree, but the hammerheads still aren't exactly there. I've
> attached a picture of my book which shows a schematic of HMS
> Minotaur. Of course, it's not exactly the same class of ship so the
> scale will be wrong, but the general shape and proportions of the
> hammerheads wrt the hull is probably quite similar for all classes.
Thanks for the pic. I actually already have it from the Baen CD,
printed out and taped to my wall, along with several others.
I based this attempt on the hammerheads more on the pics of the Reliant
and the Gryphon, which appear to have more conical hammerheads.
Manticore is a completely different platform, after all.
>
> Have you put the chase armament in yet? There's supposed to be a
> spinal laser and two missile tubes but we can't see them from this
> angle.
>
Yes, I have the two 60cm lasers and two missile launcher tubes in place.
Since this pic was released, I upgraded the armaments models again.
The two chaser PD missile tubes were still not in place, and the lower
half of the broadside was nothing but empty tubes (and the wrong count
on those, as it turned out).
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Timothy Groves wrote:
>> I agree, but the hammerheads still aren't exactly there. I've
>> attached a picture of my book which shows a schematic of HMS
>> Minotaur. Of course, it's not exactly the same class of ship so the
>> scale will be wrong, but the general shape and proportions of the
>> hammerheads wrt the hull is probably quite similar for all classes.
>
> Thanks for the pic. I actually already have it from the Baen CD,
> printed out and taped to my wall, along with several others.
>
> I based this attempt on the hammerheads more on the pics of the Reliant
> and the Gryphon, which appear to have more conical hammerheads.
> Manticore is a completely different platform, after all.
True enough, OTOH the only ships I've seen with truly conical
hammerheads were havenite or andermani. Manticoran hammerheads
appear to be always flattened at least a little.
BTW, had you seen this pic (unofficial, but nice):
http://harrington.suewebik.net/obrazky/thomas/00027yzs.jpg
Jerome
- --
+------------------------- Jerome M. BERGER ---------------------+
| mailto:jeb### [at] freefr | ICQ: 238062172 |
| http://jeberger.free.fr/ | Jabber: jeb### [at] jabberfr |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------+
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>
> True enough, OTOH the only ships I've seen with truly conical
> hammerheads were havenite or andermani. Manticoran hammerheads
> appear to be always flattened at least a little.
These are flattened at top and bottom, but only the center 6 meters, so
it doesn't really show.
During my spare time today, I came up with an idea to make them a little
more squared up...I may have a prototype before the end of the day.
> BTW, had you seen this pic (unofficial, but nice):
> http://harrington.suewebik.net/obrazky/thomas/00027yzs.jpg
Yes, very nice. :)
Sadly. the Fearless that I've been working up is still a stock
Courageous; no Grav Lance, because I have no bloody idea what it may
look like. All I know for sure is that the single weapon may fire to
either broadside. Any ideas there?
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Timothy Groves nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/09/09 18:26:
> Jérôme M. Berger wrote:
>>
>> True enough, OTOH the only ships I've seen with truly conical
>> hammerheads were havenite or andermani. Manticoran hammerheads
>> appear to be always flattened at least a little.
>
> These are flattened at top and bottom, but only the center 6 meters, so
> it doesn't really show.
> During my spare time today, I came up with an idea to make them a little
> more squared up...I may have a prototype before the end of the day.
>
>> BTW, had you seen this pic (unofficial, but nice):
>> http://harrington.suewebik.net/obrazky/thomas/00027yzs.jpg
>
> Yes, very nice. :)
>
> Sadly. the Fearless that I've been working up is still a stock
> Courageous; no Grav Lance, because I have no bloody idea what it may
> look like. All I know for sure is that the single weapon may fire to
> either broadside. Any ideas there?
The only two way that I can think of for a single weapon to be able to fire to
both broadsides, is
1 - for it to be turret mounted on the topside or the underside.
or
2 - Some kind of tube ran across the hull where a missile can be loaded both
way. It may also be some energy beam weapon that can fire by ether of it's ends.
--
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
You know you've been raytracing too long when you prefer bald romatic partners,
because they're easier to model.
John VanSickle
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From: John VanSickle
Subject: Re: CL-56 Fearless (Rebuild, still draft)
Date: 10 Sep 2007 20:46:27
Message: <46e5e563@news.povray.org>
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Timothy Groves wrote:
> I discovered that I made a serious error; the ship as posted before was
> pre-Great Resizing. For those that do not read the Honorverse, it means
> that the ship was about three times longer than it should have been.
>
> Also, I had made some errors in the design, most notably (as others
> mentioned) in the hammerheads.
>
> Since completely retooling the ship would have been a major headache, I
> instead chucked it and started work on a new one. This rebuild looks a
> lot better, IMHO.
Are you aware that this design is seriously phallic in appearance?
Regards,
John
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John VanSickle wrote:
> Are you aware that this design is seriously phallic in appearance?
The point was made rather firmly earlier today.
One of my female coworkers saw the ship (as my wallpaper on my
terminal), and commented, "Mine is purple and takes D-cells."
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John VanSickle nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/09/10 20:46:
> Timothy Groves wrote:
>> I discovered that I made a serious error; the ship as posted before
>> was pre-Great Resizing. For those that do not read the Honorverse, it
>> means that the ship was about three times longer than it should have
>> been.
>>
>> Also, I had made some errors in the design, most notably (as others
>> mentioned) in the hammerheads.
>>
>> Since completely retooling the ship would have been a major headache,
>> I instead chucked it and started work on a new one. This rebuild
>> looks a lot better, IMHO.
>
> Are you aware that this design is seriously phallic in appearance?
>
> Regards,
> John
Anything long and profiled does have a phallic appearance! ANY rocket have this
atribute, so does a bullet and a snake.
--
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
You know you've been raytracing too long when a co-worker nearly kills himself
over losing an hour's worth of work after a computer crash, and you just calmly
shrug your shoulders and say, "Is that all?"
Taps a.k.a. Tapio Vocadlo
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From: "Jérôme M. Berger"
Subject: Re: CL-56 Fearless (Rebuild, still draft)
Date: 11 Sep 2007 15:13:44
Message: <46e6e8e8$1@news.povray.org>
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Timothy Groves wrote:
>> BTW, had you seen this pic (unofficial, but nice):
>> http://harrington.suewebik.net/obrazky/thomas/00027yzs.jpg
>
> Yes, very nice. :)
>
> Sadly. the Fearless that I've been working up is still a stock
> Courageous; no Grav Lance, because I have no bloody idea what it may
> look like. All I know for sure is that the single weapon may fire to
> either broadside. Any ideas there?
Well, according to the caption, the bottom one is the post-refit
Fearless. Except that apart from the color of some of the hull
plates, I can't really see the difference between the two...
I have no real idea what it may look like either. I can see three
possibilities, but none is really satisfactory:
1. It's turret-mounted on the top or bottom or the ship, or maybe
in one of the hammerheads. Problems:
- Conventional beam weapons are already too big to be mounted
in turrets. Somehow, I can't see the grav lance as being
smaller;
- Neither admiral d'Orvilles at the beginning of the book, nor
especially the captain of PNS Sirius later on saw anything
obviously strange about Fearless' appearance. However, a
turret-mounted weapon should be pretty obvious.
2. Like Alain said, it crosses the ship from side to side and can
fire from either end. Problems:
- Such a setup could not be aimed other than by positioning
the whole ship very precisely. That's completely
impractical;
- As an alternative, the weapon could be put inside a very
large hollow cylinder with some rotation slack allowing it
to move inside. However, we're back to a highly visible
change.
3. Instead of having an actual, physical projector, the weapon
works by inducing some kind of secondary effects from the impeller
nodes. Problems:
- There's nothing in the book to support such a theory, except
that later on, other interesting effects were done that way
(the FTL com comes to mind);
- By the time Fearless used the grav lance against Sirius, she
had lost a large part of her drive (in fact, her forward
impeller ring is half destroyed at that point). Moreover,
the book explicitly states that the grav lance has burned
out afterwards, however the drive is still operating enough
to allow them to get back to Medusa.
Of course, it could always be suggested that it is fully internal
and that it operates by creating its effect in hyperspace (so that
it doesn't affect the sidewalls of the firing ship). That way, you
won't even need to model it ;)
Jerome
- --
+------------------------- Jerome M. BERGER ---------------------+
| mailto:jeb### [at] freefr | ICQ: 238062172 |
| http://jeberger.free.fr/ | Jabber: jeb### [at] jabberfr |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------+
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From: Timothy Groves
Subject: Re: CL-56 Fearless (Rebuild, still draft)
Date: 12 Sep 2007 00:41:31
Message: <46e76dfb@news.povray.org>
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Attached is the final version of Fearless (pre-refit, that is).
>> Sadly. the Fearless that I've been working up is still a stock
>> Courageous; no Grav Lance, because I have no bloody idea what it may
>> look like. All I know for sure is that the single weapon may fire to
>> either broadside. Any ideas there?
> I have no real idea what it may look like either. I can see three
> possibilities, but none is really satisfactory:
>
> 1. It's turret-mounted on the top or bottom or the ship, or maybe
> in one of the hammerheads. Problems:
> - Conventional beam weapons are already too big to be mounted
> in turrets. Somehow, I can't see the grav lance as being
> smaller;
> - Neither admiral d'Orvilles at the beginning of the book, nor
> especially the captain of PNS Sirius later on saw anything
> obviously strange about Fearless' appearance. However, a
> turret-mounted weapon should be pretty obvious.
Not to mention, they had to rip out half her broadside to install it.
Wouldn't make sense if the grav lance was in a turret. Unless it's a
really goofy turret that rotates *inside* the ship, where the broadside
used to be, but damn certain someone would notice *that*.
> 2. Like Alain said, it crosses the ship from side to side and can
> fire from either end. Problems:
> - Such a setup could not be aimed other than by positioning
> the whole ship very precisely. That's completely
> impractical;
> - As an alternative, the weapon could be put inside a very
> large hollow cylinder with some rotation slack allowing it
> to move inside. However, we're back to a highly visible
> change.
But what if instead of a beam, it fired a wedge or cone?
This would also explain why exactly a faster-than-light effect would be
limited to such a short range. If it is broadcast rather than focused,
inverse-square would play havoc with the range.
Of course, a wedge or cone would have difficulty firing through a
sidewall gunport without shorting out the attacking vessel's own
sidewalls, unless it also includes gear to maximize the size of the
gunport just before firing.
Another possibility is that the Grav Lance's "generator" can be rotated
internally, to fire down one of two separate emitters. Perhaps (given
the size of the Grav Lance itself) this would be the only way to make it
capable of firing on either broadside without installing a second Grav
Lance (which, considering how Fearless' armament was gutted to fit the
first, wouldn't be practical).
This has the additional bonus of allowing for the emitters to be
trained, without needing to train the entire weapon.
> 3. Instead of having an actual, physical projector, the weapon
> works by inducing some kind of secondary effects from the impeller
> nodes. Problems:
> - There's nothing in the book to support such a theory, except
> that later on, other interesting effects were done that way
> (the FTL com comes to mind);
> - By the time Fearless used the grav lance against Sirius, she
> had lost a large part of her drive (in fact, her forward
> impeller ring is half destroyed at that point). Moreover,
> the book explicitly states that the grav lance has burned
> out afterwards, however the drive is still operating enough
> to allow them to get back to Medusa.
Not to mention that her wedge was down when she hit King Roger with the
Grav Lance. Her points were hot, but the wedge itself was struck.
> Of course, it could always be suggested that it is fully internal
> and that it operates by creating its effect in hyperspace (so that
> it doesn't affect the sidewalls of the firing ship). That way, you
> won't even need to model it ;)
Yeah, but that's a cop-out. :)
Thankks for the ideas, though.
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Attachments:
Download 'fearless.jpg' (448 KB)
Preview of image 'fearless.jpg'
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From: "Jérôme M. Berger"
Subject: Re: CL-56 Fearless (Rebuild, still draft)
Date: 12 Sep 2007 14:09:22
Message: <46e82b52$1@news.povray.org>
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Timothy Groves wrote:
>> 2. Like Alain said, it crosses the ship from side to side and can
>> fire from either end. Problems:
>> - Such a setup could not be aimed other than by positioning
>> the whole ship very precisely. That's completely
>> impractical;
>> - As an alternative, the weapon could be put inside a very
>> large hollow cylinder with some rotation slack allowing it
>> to move inside. However, we're back to a highly visible
>> change.
>
> But what if instead of a beam, it fired a wedge or cone?
>
> This would also explain why exactly a faster-than-light effect would be
> limited to such a short range. If it is broadcast rather than focused,
> inverse-square would play havoc with the range.
>
> Of course, a wedge or cone would have difficulty firing through a
> sidewall gunport without shorting out the attacking vessel's own
> sidewalls, unless it also includes gear to maximize the size of the
> gunport just before firing.
>
True. However, since it works by inducing a harmonic in the enemy
sidewall generator, it effect could conceivably be filtered in the
firing ship.
>> 3. Instead of having an actual, physical projector, the weapon
>> works by inducing some kind of secondary effects from the impeller
>> nodes. Problems:
>> - There's nothing in the book to support such a theory, except
>> that later on, other interesting effects were done that way
>> (the FTL com comes to mind);
>> - By the time Fearless used the grav lance against Sirius, she
>> had lost a large part of her drive (in fact, her forward
>> impeller ring is half destroyed at that point). Moreover,
>> the book explicitly states that the grav lance has burned
>> out afterwards, however the drive is still operating enough
>> to allow them to get back to Medusa.
>
> Not to mention that her wedge was down when she hit King Roger with the
> Grav Lance. Her points were hot, but the wedge itself was struck.
>
True, I had forgotten that.
Your model is pretty nice. Now all that's lacking is to see it
animated ;)
Jerome
PS: BTW, all "official" representations of warships from the HH
universe have their broadside weapons clustered near the middle of
the ship just like yours. That always struck me as a little strange
(I had initially imagined them spread over the entire ship length)
especially since one of the acknowledged problems in having too
heavy a broadside is the minimum separation required between missile
to avoid wedge interference...
- --
+------------------------- Jerome M. BERGER ---------------------+
| mailto:jeb### [at] freefr | ICQ: 238062172 |
| http://jeberger.free.fr/ | Jabber: jeb### [at] jabberfr |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------+
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