Why is POVRay for Windows 3.7 now being installed into C:\Documents and 
Settings\Username\Application Data\POV-Ray\v3.7\ ?

As I regularly build very large datasets with POV, I have always 
installed my POVRay into a secondary harddrive (D:). Now it appears with 
the current Beta installers I get no control over where it is installed. 
I now have two competing POV directory structures!

Is this a temporary situation for the Betas or is it the future scheme 
for 3.7... if so why?

Rarius

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"Rarius" <rar### [at] rariuscouk> wrote:
> Why is POVRay for Windows 3.7 now being installed into C:\Documents and
> Settings\Username\Application Data\POV-Ray\v3.7\ ?
>
> As I regularly build very large datasets with POV, I have always
> installed my POVRay into a secondary harddrive (D:). Now it appears with
> the current Beta installers I get no control over where it is installed.

Can't you just move it elsewhere after installed?  This is why I like zip
packages best rather than installers...

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nemesis wrote:
> "Rarius" <rar### [at] rariuscouk> wrote:
>> Why is POVRay for Windows 3.7 now being installed into C:\Documents and
>> Settings\Username\Application Data\POV-Ray\v3.7\ ?
>>
>> As I regularly build very large datasets with POV, I have always
>> installed my POVRay into a secondary harddrive (D:). Now it appears with
>> the current Beta installers I get no control over where it is installed.
> 
> Can't you just move it elsewhere after installed?  This is why I like zip
> packages best rather than installers...
> 
Actually, that isn't quite the point. The problem is, this behavior is 
annoying as hell. It obfuscates, for the average person, and I would 
argue, at least initially, for me too, where the hell the files are. 
And, if you are a dumb fuck like me, you assumed that XP worked like 98, 
and your "documents" and "programs" would all end up where you told the 
OS to put them, so didn't bother with a huge partition for the OS. I for 
one simply don't have the space on C: for an endless number of idiot 
applications stuffing things in those locations (and at the moment, its 
just not practical for me to try to fix it, not the least because I have 
drives running from C to I on the machine, and trying to mess with 
partitions, even if I could find an old copy of partition magic that 
could help me fix it, could, do to one of those partitions needing to 
go, seriously screw up a lot of installations.

Windows behavior in this is just bone headed imho, and I can't 
comprehend, given this behavior, how they ever managed to get it to run, 
at all, on one of those Asus Eee PCs. Its not like those have hundreds 
of gigs of space sitting around for every application in the known 
universe to dump its junk into the same partition as the OS. lol

Yeah, with respect, I much prefer to have control over where things put 
themselves, instead of being "told" by Windows, yet again, "You can have 
anything you want, just so long as its what we decided you want!"


-- 
void main () {

     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models, 
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>

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Rarius wrote:
> Why is POVRay for Windows 3.7 now being installed into C:\Documents and
Settings\Username\Application Data\POV-Ray\v3.7\ ?

Is the *code* going there?  That's extremely wrong.

If the local data is going there, like .ini files, that's where it belongs.

If the user data is going there, it should be going under "My documents" in 
XP, or wherever you tell it to install.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
   There aren't any trees on Mars.

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Darren New wrote:
> Rarius wrote:
>> Why is POVRay for Windows 3.7 now being installed into C:\Documents
>> and Settings\Username\Application Data\POV-Ray\v3.7\ ?
> 
> Is the *code* going there?  That's extremely wrong.

Not wrong. Just different (see below).

> If the local data is going there, like .ini files, that's where it
> belongs.

> If the user data is going there, it should be going under "My documents"
> in XP, or wherever you tell it to install.

Choose 'install for all users'. Then it will allow you to choose an install
location.

NB this new behaviour is more or less forced on me by Vista, since when
installing for the current user only (the default unless you want to get
UAC prompts), it is required to install the entire thing into a place the
user has permission to write to. Basically the binaries and the user files
are now split and end up in two locations; I use one of the pre-defined
variables set by Windows Installer for the path of the binaries. It so
happens that the above is what it resolves to on XP.

[Yes it's a pain in the ass but unless I spend the time supporting both
pre-Vista and post-Vista install schemes (= less time to work on other
stuff) there's not a lot I can do about it.]

-- Chris

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Rarius wrote:
> Why is POVRay for Windows 3.7 now being installed into C:\Documents and
> Settings\Username\Application Data\POV-Ray\v3.7\ ?
>  
> As I regularly build very large datasets with POV, I have always
> installed my POVRay into a secondary harddrive (D:). Now it appears with
> the current Beta installers I get no control over where it is installed.
> I now have two competing POV directory structures!
>  
> Is this a temporary situation for the Betas or is it the future scheme
> for 3.7... if so why?

Reading the release notes usually answers such questions.

-- Chris

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nemesis wrote:
> Can't you just move it elsewhere after installed?  This is why I like zip
> packages best rather than installers...

If you could, there would be no need for an installer! There's surely lots
of registry settings.

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> Rarius wrote:
>> Why is POVRay for Windows 3.7 now being installed into C:\Documents and
>> Settings\Username\Application Data\POV-Ray\v3.7\ ?
> 
> Is the *code* going there?  That's extremely wrong.

That's Vista's equivalent to the way you can install programs anywhere in
$HOME if you don't have root.

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Chris Cason wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Rarius wrote:
>>> Why is POVRay for Windows 3.7 now being installed into C:\Documents
>>> and Settings\Username\Application Data\POV-Ray\v3.7\ ?
>> Is the *code* going there?  That's extremely wrong.
> 
> Not wrong. Just different (see below).

Well, OK. If it installs there for just "one user", I suppose there's not a 
whole lot of good places. I didn't realize that's what you meant.

Installing things outside of "Program Files" in the general case breaks a 
whole bunch of stuff, such as System Restore, all kinds of general backup 
scripts, and etc. It would be as "extremely wrong" as storing the per-user 
ini-config files in the /bin directory on Unix. :-)

Installing the whole executable under "Application Data" could, I suppose, 
cause trouble with people who have (for example) corporate networks where 
that stuff gets backed up on a regular basis or roamed or etc.

Personally, I would have put the single-person install under the "my 
documents" area rather than someplace "hidden", but it's certainly not 
something that Windows makes an obvious place for, yes.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
   There aren't any trees on Mars.

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Chris Cason wrote:

> Choose 'install for all users'. Then it will allow you to choose an install
> location.

Maybe only the text is misleading, because installing just for
one user usually means that shortcuts and ini files and the such
go to the users app data and not "All Users" app data. Installing
the binaries into the user's app data is rather exceptional and
could be marked more clearly, such as

o Standard installation (requires administrator privileges)
o Private installation  (places program under user files)

Even so, I think the default should be "Standard" and require
explicit action on the part of the user to change. When ignoring
the warning about administrator privileges, UAC popups should
not come as a big surprise.

Depending on the effort it would require using your tool,
the following two modifications might be helpful:

1. If Windows version is XP or lower, skip the query and
    proceed with standard installation.

2. When doing the query, set the default selection based
    on the availability of administrator privileges.

What tool are you using to build the installer? You mentioned
Windows Installer, but I thought that is just an installer platform
nobody writes for manually. Urk ;) You may wish to have a look at
http://www.advancedinstaller.com for targetting MSI, or NSIS to
avoid MSI altogether.

BTW, note that applications can have a manifest for Vista
which specifies that starting them requires administrator
privileges (common for installers).

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