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From: Rushen
Subject: IKEA test
Date: 5 Apr 2018 06:25:00
Message: <web.5ac5bfb3a02724adcc1f4c90@news.povray.org>
Hey guys,

Been a few years since I posted anything here. Can't say that I've been busy
working with 3d, so my skills are about the same as before. :)

Anyway, I've started to study a few courses on digital graphics, if nothing else
to freshen up this forgotten hobby of mine. (But I guess the dream of working
with 3d for a living also is somewhere in the back...) Stop! I already know
POV-Ray is not the ulyimate tool for that...!

So, the idea was to make an IKEA manual as a 3d animation. Keeping it all kind
of basic.

First few scenes put together can be watched here:

https://vimeo.com/263286279

First two scenes look smooth enough, but then the rest gets all jagged up (55
seconds in forexample).  I've been
using the same settings in FFMPEG: goes from png to avi, fps 25.

Put together in Windows Live Movie Maker... could that be the weak link? Or
should I not be using avi-files in the first place? (WLMM makes wmv-files
only...)

Well, any comments/ideas on this matter are, as always, heavily appreciated.

Take care!
/Gustav


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From: Rushen
Subject: Re: IKEA test
Date: 5 Apr 2018 07:20:01
Message: <web.5ac5cdedbfc0a90cdcc1f4c90@news.povray.org>
Addition:

Compare the jagged lines (is there a proper term for that?) in the clip posted
in the first post with this one:

https://vimeo.com/263292688

That's one of the files I put into Windows Live Movie Maker, which then came out
looking a lot worse.

/Gustav


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: IKEA test
Date: 5 Apr 2018 07:25:02
Message: <5ac5cf4e$1@news.povray.org>
On 05/04/2018 07:20, Rushen wrote:
> Hey guys,
> 
> Been a few years since I posted anything here. Can't say that I've been busy
> working with 3d, so my skills are about the same as before. :)
> 
> Anyway, I've started to study a few courses on digital graphics, if nothing else
> to freshen up this forgotten hobby of mine. (But I guess the dream of working
> with 3d for a living also is somewhere in the back...) Stop! I already know
> POV-Ray is not the ulyimate tool for that...!
> 
> So, the idea was to make an IKEA manual as a 3d animation. Keeping it all kind
> of basic.
> 
> First few scenes put together can be watched here:
> 
> https://vimeo.com/263286279
> 
> First two scenes look smooth enough, but then the rest gets all jagged up (55
> seconds in forexample).  I've been
> using the same settings in FFMPEG: goes from png to avi, fps 25.
> 
> Put together in Windows Live Movie Maker... could that be the weak link? Or
> should I not be using avi-files in the first place? (WLMM makes wmv-files
> only...)
> 
> Well, any comments/ideas on this matter are, as always, heavily appreciated.
> 

It could be your anti-aliasing settings are too low. But I notice that 
the video starts to go jaggy when there is movement. That points to the 
encoding. Can you find the advance settings and see what codex you are 
using and any settings?

I've not used Windows Live Movie Maker but I found the earlier version 
quite limited.
I'm using Blender but that is not really suitable for just putting a 
video together. To steep a learning curve, I fear.
You could try VirtualDub. It is old but free. ;-)


-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Gergely Szaktilla
Subject: Re: IKEA test
Date: 5 Apr 2018 08:18:15
Message: <5ac5dbc7$1@news.povray.org>
Am 05.04.2018 um 08:20 schrieb Rushen:
> ...
> Well, any comments/ideas on this matter are, as always, heavily appreciated.

Yes ... one can have lots of fun doing such things. I did my shelf in 3d
prior to building it. The room under it is for a desk. See
<http://test.szaktilla.de/3d.jpg>

Gregor


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From: Rushen
Subject: Re: IKEA test
Date: 5 Apr 2018 08:20:00
Message: <web.5ac5db3bbfc0a90cdcc1f4c90@news.povray.org>
Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> On 05/04/2018 07:20, Rushen wrote:
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > Been a few years since I posted anything here. Can't say that I've been busy
> > working with 3d, so my skills are about the same as before. :)
> >
> > Anyway, I've started to study a few courses on digital graphics, if nothing else
> > to freshen up this forgotten hobby of mine. (But I guess the dream of working
> > with 3d for a living also is somewhere in the back...) Stop! I already know
> > POV-Ray is not the ulyimate tool for that...!
> >
> > So, the idea was to make an IKEA manual as a 3d animation. Keeping it all kind
> > of basic.
> >
> > First few scenes put together can be watched here:
> >
> > https://vimeo.com/263286279
> >
> > First two scenes look smooth enough, but then the rest gets all jagged up (55
> > seconds in forexample).  I've been
> > using the same settings in FFMPEG: goes from png to avi, fps 25.
> >
> > Put together in Windows Live Movie Maker... could that be the weak link? Or
> > should I not be using avi-files in the first place? (WLMM makes wmv-files
> > only...)
> >
> > Well, any comments/ideas on this matter are, as always, heavily appreciated.
> >
>
> It could be your anti-aliasing settings are too low. But I notice that
> the video starts to go jaggy when there is movement. That points to the
> encoding. Can you find the advance settings and see what codex you are
> using and any settings?
>
> I've not used Windows Live Movie Maker but I found the earlier version
> quite limited.
> I'm using Blender but that is not really suitable for just putting a
> video together. To steep a learning curve, I fear.
> You could try VirtualDub. It is old but free. ;-)
>
>
> --
>
> Regards
>      Stephen

Thanks Stephen,

I believe the encoding problems show up in the process of putting several
smaller video-files (scenes) into one final clip.

I think FFMPEG and VDub does the same thing,mainly, and that is going from still
to moving images. (or switching formats) And so far the avi-files produced
during that step show very little distortion.

So I guess what I need is a better video editor basically. Are there any free
programs for that, besides windows not-so-great alternative?


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From: dick balaska
Subject: Re: IKEA test
Date: 5 Apr 2018 08:32:44
Message: <5ac5df2c$1@news.povray.org>
On 04/05/2018 02:20 AM, Rushen wrote:
> Hey guys,
> 
> Been a few years since I posted anything here. Can't say that I've been busy
> working with 3d, so my skills are about the same as before. :)
> 
> Anyway, I've started to study a few courses on digital graphics, if nothing else
> to freshen up this forgotten hobby of mine. (But I guess the dream of working
> with 3d for a living also is somewhere in the back...) Stop! I already know
> POV-Ray is not the ulyimate tool for that...!
> 
> So, the idea was to make an IKEA manual as a 3d animation. Keeping it all kind
> of basic.
> 
> First few scenes put together can be watched here:
> 
> https://vimeo.com/263286279
> 
> First two scenes look smooth enough, but then the rest gets all jagged up (55
> seconds in forexample).  I've been
> using the same settings in FFMPEG: goes from png to avi, fps 25.
> 
> Put together in Windows Live Movie Maker... could that be the weak link? Or
> should I not be using avi-files in the first place? (WLMM makes wmv-files
> only...)
> 

Why not use just straight ffmpeg and output a .mp4 ?
avi has an optional lossless format that is nice for editing, but I 
would skip that part.
Is your issue that you have too many png files at once? (about 4000).
(I manage multiple scenes in a single movie. A bash script copies 8 
scenes of png files into one linear list of pngs and then I ffmpeg it.)

-- 
dik
Rendered 328976 of 330000 (99%)


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From: dick balaska
Subject: Re: IKEA test
Date: 5 Apr 2018 08:44:56
Message: <5ac5e208$1@news.povray.org>
On 04/05/2018 04:15 AM, Rushen wrote:

> 
> I think FFMPEG and VDub does the same thing,mainly, and that is going from still
> to moving images. (or switching formats) And so far the avi-files produced
> during that step show very little distortion.

# create your scenes
$ ffmpeg -i scene1-%3d.png scene1.mp4
$ ffmpeg -i scene2-%3d.png scene2.mp4
$ ffmpeg -i scene3-%3d.png scene3.mp4

# create a file with the list of scene mp4s
$ cat filelist.txt
scene1.mp4
scene2.mp4
scene3.mp4

# concatenate the scenes together, without transcoding.
$ ffmpeg -f concat -i filelist.txt -c copy finalmovie.mp4

-- 
dik
Rendered 328976 of 330000 (99%)


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From: Rushen
Subject: Re: IKEA test
Date: 5 Apr 2018 09:10:00
Message: <web.5ac5e79bbfc0a90cdcc1f4c90@news.povray.org>
Gergely Szaktilla <spa### [at] ktillade> wrote:
> Am 05.04.2018 um 08:20 schrieb Rushen:
> > ...
> > Well, any comments/ideas on this matter are, as always, heavily appreciated.
>
> Yes ... one can have lots of fun doing such things. I did my shelf in 3d
> prior to building it. The room under it is for a desk. See
> <http://test.szaktilla.de/3d.jpg>
>
> Gregor

That's a good idea. Also a bit easier to change the plans, if it does not fit
correctly, prior to constructing the actual shelf.. :)


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From: Rushen
Subject: Re: IKEA test
Date: 5 Apr 2018 09:15:00
Message: <web.5ac5e8c1bfc0a90cdcc1f4c90@news.povray.org>
dick balaska <dic### [at] buckosoftcom> wrote:
> On 04/05/2018 04:15 AM, Rushen wrote:
>
> >
> > I think FFMPEG and VDub does the same thing,mainly, and that is going from still
> > to moving images. (or switching formats) And so far the avi-files produced
> > during that step show very little distortion.
>
> # create your scenes
> $ ffmpeg -i scene1-%3d.png scene1.mp4
> $ ffmpeg -i scene2-%3d.png scene2.mp4
> $ ffmpeg -i scene3-%3d.png scene3.mp4
>
> # create a file with the list of scene mp4s
> $ cat filelist.txt
> scene1.mp4
> scene2.mp4
> scene3.mp4
>
> # concatenate the scenes together, without transcoding.
> $ ffmpeg -f concat -i filelist.txt -c copy finalmovie.mp4
>
> --
> dik
> Rendered 328976 of 330000 (99%)

Nice idea, yes the problem is the number of different named files from each
scene.

I'm always a bit intimidated by words like "script" or "bash", but that actually
seems managable even for me.

However, what I also want to do is put in a few still images between the scenes.
But I guess I can just let POV-Ray render them too..

I also wanted to add some text overlay to the final movie. Of course this can be
done in POV-Ray as well but the plan was to add that post rendering, as well as
sound.


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: IKEA test
Date: 5 Apr 2018 09:31:18
Message: <5ac5ece6$1@news.povray.org>
On 05/04/2018 09:44, dick balaska wrote:
> On 04/05/2018 04:15 AM, Rushen wrote:
> 
>>
>> I think FFMPEG and VDub does the same thing,mainly, and that is going 
>> from still
>> to moving images. (or switching formats) And so far the avi-files 
>> produced
>> during that step show very little distortion.
> 
If you are happy using command line programs. Ignore the suggestion.


> # create your scenes
> $ ffmpeg -i scene1-%3d.png scene1.mp4
> $ ffmpeg -i scene2-%3d.png scene2.mp4
> $ ffmpeg -i scene3-%3d.png scene3.mp4
> 
> # create a file with the list of scene mp4s
> $ cat filelist.txt
> scene1.mp4
> scene2.mp4
> scene3.mp4
> 
> # concatenate the scenes together, without transcoding.
> $ ffmpeg -f concat -i filelist.txt -c copy finalmovie.mp4
> 


I agree with you about using mp4

I use a GUI and generally use 2 passes and fiddle with the framerate. 
You're not doing that? I know you want continuity in your scenes but are 
the defaults giving the best results?

-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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