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From: Fractracer
Subject: medias with pov3.7
Date: 1 Jul 2013 08:35:01
Message: <web.51d176657345d863916440570@news.povray.org>
I don't know if my question do go in this group. But...
Why rendering with medias are slower with pov3.7, more then two times longer as
with pov3.6? I use rarely the 3.7 version.


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From: Thorsten Froehlich
Subject: Re: medias with pov3.7
Date: 1 Jul 2013 14:05:01
Message: <web.51d1c487943fc4c0969729780@news.povray.org>
"Fractracer" <lg.### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I don't know if my question do go in this group. But...
> Why rendering with medias are slower with pov3.7, more then two times longer as
> with pov3.6? I use rarely the 3.7 version.

My crystal ball suggests that a black wizard inside your computer makes media
slower for you.

No serious: You make a generic claim without any additional information. How is
anybody to offer any help with your problem if you do not even provide any means
to replicate your specific problem?

Thorsten


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From: Fractracer
Subject: Re: medias with pov3.7
Date: 1 Jul 2013 17:40:00
Message: <web.51d1f6dd943fc4c0916440570@news.povray.org>
"Thorsten Froehlich" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "Fractracer" <lg.### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > I don't know if my question do go in this group. But...
> > Why rendering with medias are slower with pov3.7, more then two times longer as
> > with pov3.6? I use rarely the 3.7 version.
>
> My crystal ball suggests that a black wizard inside your computer makes media
> slower for you.
>
> No serious: You make a generic claim without any additional information. How is
> anybody to offer any help with your problem if you do not even provide any means
> to replicate your specific problem?
>
> Thorsten

Here the times for the same little scene:
V3.7
Render Time:
  Photon Time:      No photons
  Radiosity Time:   No radiosity
  Trace Time:       0 hours  0 minutes  5 seconds (5.211 seconds)
              using 2 thread(s) with 9.749 CPU-seconds total


V3.6
Total Scene Processing Times
  Parse Time:    0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
  Photon Time:   0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
  Render Time:   0 hours  0 minutes  8 seconds (8 seconds)
  Total Time:    0 hours  0 minutes  8 seconds (8 seconds)
CPU time used: kernel 1.15 seconds, user 7.02 seconds, total 8.17 seconds
Render averaged 37580.50 PPS over 307200 pixels

In this simple scene you can see that the rendering is slower with v3.7 (9.749
vs 8.17). If I use a big scene the difference increase.
The scene file used is the same.
I hope you have enough informations to understand my problem.


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From: Thorsten Froehlich
Subject: Re: medias with pov3.7
Date: 2 Jul 2013 12:50:00
Message: <web.51d3048b943fc4c05105dff0@news.povray.org>
"Fractracer" <lg.### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Thorsten Froehlich" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > "Fractracer" <lg.### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > > I don't know if my question do go in this group. But...
> > > Why rendering with medias are slower with pov3.7, more then two times longer as
> > > with pov3.6? I use rarely the 3.7 version.
> >
> > My crystal ball suggests that a black wizard inside your computer makes media
> > slower for you.
> >
> > No serious: You make a generic claim without any additional information. How is
> > anybody to offer any help with your problem if you do not even provide any means
> > to replicate your specific problem?
> >
> > Thorsten
>
> Here the times for the same little scene:
> V3.7
> Render Time:
>   Photon Time:      No photons
>   Radiosity Time:   No radiosity
>   Trace Time:       0 hours  0 minutes  5 seconds (5.211 seconds)
>               using 2 thread(s) with 9.749 CPU-seconds total
>
>
> V3.6
> Total Scene Processing Times
>   Parse Time:    0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
>   Photon Time:   0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
>   Render Time:   0 hours  0 minutes  8 seconds (8 seconds)
>   Total Time:    0 hours  0 minutes  8 seconds (8 seconds)
> CPU time used: kernel 1.15 seconds, user 7.02 seconds, total 8.17 seconds
> Render averaged 37580.50 PPS over 307200 pixels
>
> In this simple scene you can see that the rendering is slower with v3.7 (9.749
> vs 8.17). If I use a big scene the difference increase.
> The scene file used is the same.
> I hope you have enough informations to understand my problem.

How do the times help to replicate your problem? Please be specific! You say you
have some scene and you claim its media is slower, how did you determine media
is the problem? Do all media scenes render slower? You need to provide a minimal
sample scene, assuming you can actually replicate the problem and show that it
is media related.

Thorsten


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From: Fractracer
Subject: Re: medias with pov3.7
Date: 2 Jul 2013 17:20:01
Message: <web.51d3438f943fc4c060f4cf0e0@news.povray.org>
"Thorsten Froehlich" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> "Fractracer" <lg.### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > "Thorsten Froehlich" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > > "Fractracer" <lg.### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > > > I don't know if my question do go in this group. But...
> > > > Why rendering with medias are slower with pov3.7, more then two times longer
as
> > > > with pov3.6? I use rarely the 3.7 version.
> > >
> > > My crystal ball suggests that a black wizard inside your computer makes media
> > > slower for you.
> > >
> > > No serious: You make a generic claim without any additional information. How is
> > > anybody to offer any help with your problem if you do not even provide any means
> > > to replicate your specific problem?
> > >
> > > Thorsten
> >
> > Here the times for the same little scene:
> > V3.7
> > Render Time:
> >   Photon Time:      No photons
> >   Radiosity Time:   No radiosity
> >   Trace Time:       0 hours  0 minutes  5 seconds (5.211 seconds)
> >               using 2 thread(s) with 9.749 CPU-seconds total
> >
> >
> > V3.6
> > Total Scene Processing Times
> >   Parse Time:    0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
> >   Photon Time:   0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
> >   Render Time:   0 hours  0 minutes  8 seconds (8 seconds)
> >   Total Time:    0 hours  0 minutes  8 seconds (8 seconds)
> > CPU time used: kernel 1.15 seconds, user 7.02 seconds, total 8.17 seconds
> > Render averaged 37580.50 PPS over 307200 pixels
> >
> > In this simple scene you can see that the rendering is slower with v3.7 (9.749
> > vs 8.17). If I use a big scene the difference increase.
> > The scene file used is the same.
> > I hope you have enough informations to understand my problem.
>
> How do the times help to replicate your problem? Please be specific! You say you
> have some scene and you claim its media is slower, how did you determine media
> is the problem? Do all media scenes render slower? You need to provide a minimal
> sample scene, assuming you can actually replicate the problem and show that it
> is media related.
>
> Thorsten
At fisrt I ask this to know if it is a common problem, already seen, or if it is
made by me. For the scene below the times are: 105 secondes with pov3.6 and 450
secondes with 3.7.
I use Pov with win7. I have check the render priority, they are both to normal.

global_settings {
 assumed_gamma 1.2
 max_trace_level 5
}



camera {
 location <-30, 22, -27>
 right <4/3, 0, 0>
 look_at <2, 6, 0>
 angle 90/1.2
}



light_source {
 <0, 25, -10>
 color rgb 1
 spotlight
 point_at <2.5, 0, 2.5>
 radius 50
 tightness 5
 falloff 60
}

light_source {
 <200, 45, 200>
 color rgb <1,1,0>*2
 spotlight
 point_at <250, 40, 205>
 radius 10
 tightness 5
 falloff 16
}

light_source {
 <-1500,50,5000>
 color rgb 4.5
 looks_like {
  sphere { 0*x, 50 pigment {color <1,1,0> } }
 }
 photons {
  refraction on
  reflection on
  area_light
 }
}


#declare My_Texture_1 = texture {
 pigment {
  color rgb <1, 0.75, 0.33>
  //filter 0.4 transmit 0.36
 }
 finish {
  diffuse 0.51
  phong 0
  phong_size 0
  reflection 0.125
 }
}


box {<-50, -5, -50> <50, -4, 50>
 texture { My_Texture_1 }
}



#declare F1 =  finish {
 diffuse 0.5
 reflection 0.95
}

#declare My_Texture_2 = texture {
 pigment {
  color rgb <1, 0.9, 0.7>
  filter 0.4 transmit 0.36
 }
 finish {F1}
}




#declare R = 4;
#declare S = 1;
#declare P1 = pigment {rgbt <1,1,1,1>}

#declare I1 = interior{
 media{
  emission 1
  density{
   cylindrical
   turbulence 0.321
   density_map{
    [0 rgb 0]
    [0.4 rgb <0,0,1>]
    [0.8 rgb <0,1,1>]
    [1 rgb 1]
   }
  }
 }
}

#declare I2 = interior{
 media{
  emission 1
  density{
   spherical
   density_map{
    [0 rgb 0]
    [0.4 rgb <1,0,0>]
    [0.8 rgb <1,1,0>]
    [1 rgb 1]
   }
  }
 }
}


#local C = 10;
#declare OB1 = union {
  sphere { 0,1  hollow pigment{P1} interior{I2} scale R translate <10,0,10> }
  sphere { 0,1  hollow pigment{P1} interior{I2} scale R translate <-10,0,-10>  }
  sphere { 0,1  hollow pigment{P1} interior{I2} scale R translate <10,0,-10>  }
  sphere { 0,1  hollow pigment{P1} interior{I2} scale R translate <-10,0,10>  }

  sphere { 0,1  hollow pigment{P1} interior{I1} scale R translate <-10,20,-10> }
  sphere { 0,1  hollow pigment{P1} interior{I1} scale R translate <+10,20,-10>
}
  sphere { 0,1  hollow pigment{P1} interior{I1} scale R translate <-10,20,+10> }
  sphere { 0,1  hollow pigment{P1} interior{I1} scale R translate <+10,20,+10>
}

 cylinder { <-C,  0, -C>, <+C,  0, -C>, S texture { My_Texture_2 } }
 cylinder { <+C,  0, -C>, <+C,  0, +C>, S texture { My_Texture_2 } }
 cylinder { <+C,  0, +C>, <-C,  0, +C>, S texture { My_Texture_2 } }
 cylinder { <-C,  0, +C>, <-C,  0, -C>, S texture { My_Texture_2 } }
 cylinder { <-C, 20, -C>, <+C, 20, -C>, S texture { My_Texture_2 } }
 cylinder { <+C, 20, -C>, <+C, 20, +C>, S texture { My_Texture_2 } }
 cylinder { <+C, 20, +C>, <-C, 20, +C>, S texture { My_Texture_2 } }
 cylinder { <-C, 20, +C>, <-C, 20, -C>, S texture { My_Texture_2 } }
 cylinder { <-C,  0, -C>, <-C, 20, -C>, S texture { My_Texture_2 } }
 cylinder { <-C,  0, +C>, <-C, 20, +C>, S texture { My_Texture_2 } }
 cylinder { <+C,  0, +C>, <+C, 20, +C>, S texture { My_Texture_2 } }
 cylinder { <+C,  0, -C>, <+C, 20, -C>, S texture { My_Texture_2 } }
}


object {
 OB1
 finish {F1}
  photons{
    target 1.40          // spacing multiplier for photons hitting the object
    refraction on
    reflection on
  }

}

background { color rgb < 0.078 , 0.361 , 0.53>/4 }



#declare ressort = blob {
 threshold 0.4
 #local a = 0.85;
 #local b = 0.25;
 #local h = 0.25;
 #local st = -5*pi; //-4*pi
 #while (st < 5*pi) // 8*pi
  #local xa = a * cos(st);
  #local ya = b * sin(st);
  #local za = h * st;
  sphere {
   <xa, ya, za>, 0.15, 0.8
  }
  #local st = st +0.025;
 #end
 pigment {rgbt 1}
 hollow
}

object {
 ressort
 scale <1.7,3,1.7>
 rotate x*90
 translate <-10,10,10>
}

object {
 ressort
 scale <1.7,3,1.7>
 rotate x*90
 translate <10,10,-10>
}


object {
 ressort
 scale <1.5,3,1.5>
 rotate x*90
 translate <-10,10,-10>
}

object {
 ressort
 scale <2,3,2>
 rotate x*90
 translate <10,10,10>
}


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From: Todd Carnes
Subject: Re: medias with pov3.7
Date: 2 Jul 2013 19:04:42
Message: <51d35c8a$1@news.povray.org>
On 7/2/2013 5:18 PM, Fractracer wrote:
> At fisrt I ask this to know if it is a common problem, already seen, or if it is
> made by me. For the scene below the times are: 105 secondes with pov3.6 and 450
> secondes with 3.7.
> I use Pov with win7. I have check the render priority, they are both to normal.

I don't think you've given them enough info to help you. For example, I
can render your scene with PoV3.7 at a resolution of 640x480 with no
antialiasing, I can render it in half the time you report for PoV3.6.

However, when up the resolution to 1366x768 and turn on antialiasing,
the same scene took almost 19 minutes to render. (Probably less, but I
had a lot of cpu intensive background processes running at the time.)

Also, the hardware on your particular computer can make a difference too.

Here are example times I got with version 3.7 rc 7 (64-bit).

At 640x480 [No AA] with POV 3.7 on my 64-bit Win 8 laptop, I get the
following...

Render Time:
  Photon Time:      No photons
  Radiosity Time:   No radiosity
  Trace Time:       0 hours  0 minutes 32 seconds (32.211 seconds)
              using 2 thread(s) with 51.978 CPU-seconds total
POV-Ray finished
-
CPU time used: kernel 0.25 seconds, user 52.54 seconds, total 52.79 seconds.
Elapsed time 33.22 seconds, CPU vs elapsed time ratio 1.59.
Render averaged 9247.16 PPS (5819.20 PPS CPU time) over 307200 pixels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 1366x768 [AA 0.3] I get the following...


Render Time:
  Photon Time:      No photons
  Radiosity Time:   No radiosity
  Trace Time:       0 hours 12 minutes 11 seconds (731.257 seconds)
              using 2 thread(s) with 1124.563 CPU-seconds total
POV-Ray finished
-
CPU time used: kernel 2.36 seconds, user 1125.55 seconds, total 1127.90
seconds.
Elapsed time 733.09 seconds, CPU vs elapsed time ratio 1.54.
Render averaged 1431.05 PPS (930.12 PPS CPU time) over 1049088 pixels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From: Todd Carnes
Subject: Re: medias with pov3.7
Date: 2 Jul 2013 19:15:41
Message: <51d35f1d@news.povray.org>
On 7/2/2013 7:04 PM, Todd Carnes wrote:
> On 7/2/2013 5:18 PM, Fractracer wrote:
>> At fisrt I ask this to know if it is a common problem, already seen, or if it is
>> made by me. For the scene below the times are: 105 secondes with pov3.6 and 450
>> secondes with 3.7.
>> I use Pov with win7. I have check the render priority, they are both to normal.
> 
> I don't think you've given them enough info to help you. For example, I
> can render your scene with PoV3.7 at a resolution of 640x480 with no
> antialiasing, I can render it in half the time you report for PoV3.6.
> 
> However, when up the resolution to 1366x768 and turn on antialiasing,
> the same scene took almost 19 minutes to render. (Probably less, but I
> had a lot of cpu intensive background processes running at the time.)
> 
> Also, the hardware on your particular computer can make a difference too.
> 
> Here are example times I got with version 3.7 rc 7 (64-bit).
> 
> At 640x480 [No AA] with POV 3.7 on my 64-bit Win 8 laptop, I get the
> following...
> 
> Render Time:
>   Photon Time:      No photons
>   Radiosity Time:   No radiosity
>   Trace Time:       0 hours  0 minutes 32 seconds (32.211 seconds)
>               using 2 thread(s) with 51.978 CPU-seconds total
> POV-Ray finished
> -
> CPU time used: kernel 0.25 seconds, user 52.54 seconds, total 52.79 seconds.
> Elapsed time 33.22 seconds, CPU vs elapsed time ratio 1.59.
> Render averaged 9247.16 PPS (5819.20 PPS CPU time) over 307200 pixels.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[snip]

Just turning on antialising for the 640x480 version changed the
rendering time drastically...


Render Time:
  Photon Time:      No photons
  Radiosity Time:   No radiosity
  Trace Time:       0 hours  5 minutes 35 seconds (335.974 seconds)
              using 2 thread(s) with 384.572 CPU-seconds total
POV-Ray finished
-
CPU time used: kernel 0.78 seconds, user 384.84 seconds, total 385.62
seconds.
Elapsed time 337.00 seconds, CPU vs elapsed time ratio 1.14.
Render averaged 911.56 PPS (796.64 PPS CPU time) over 307200 pixels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From: Warp
Subject: Re: medias with pov3.7
Date: 2 Jul 2013 19:25:18
Message: <51d3615e@news.povray.org>
Fractracer <lg.### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Here the times for the same little scene:
> V3.7
> Render Time:
>   Photon Time:      No photons
>   Radiosity Time:   No radiosity
>   Trace Time:       0 hours  0 minutes  5 seconds (5.211 seconds)
>               using 2 thread(s) with 9.749 CPU-seconds total
> V3.6
> Total Scene Processing Times
>   Parse Time:    0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
>   Photon Time:   0 hours  0 minutes  0 seconds (0 seconds)
>   Render Time:   0 hours  0 minutes  8 seconds (8 seconds)
>   Total Time:    0 hours  0 minutes  8 seconds (8 seconds)
> CPU time used: kernel 1.15 seconds, user 7.02 seconds, total 8.17 seconds
> Render averaged 37580.50 PPS over 307200 pixels

> In this simple scene you can see that the rendering is slower with v3.7

You have a rather strange definition of "slower", given that v3.7
rendered your scene in 5 seconds while v3.6 rendered it in 8.

-- 
                                                          - Warp


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From: Todd Carnes
Subject: Re: medias with pov3.7
Date: 2 Jul 2013 20:26:18
Message: <51d36faa$1@news.povray.org>
On 7/2/2013 7:25 PM, Warp wrote:
> You have a rather strange definition of "slower", given that v3.7
> rendered your scene in 5 seconds while v3.6 rendered it in 8.

You are not being fair and intentionally omitted the pertinent part of
his post from your quote.

It's pretty obvious he was talking about total cpu time, not trace time,
since the numbers for total cpu time were the numbers he was quoting.
The total time WAS slower for version 3.7 in the example he gave.

It doesn't really matter if trace time is shorter for 3.7, if the total
time he has to wait is longer.

Todd


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From: scott
Subject: Re: medias with pov3.7
Date: 3 Jul 2013 03:23:31
Message: <51d3d173$1@news.povray.org>
> It doesn't really matter if trace time is shorter for 3.7, if the total
> time he has to wait is longer.

Elapsed time is the time he has to wait, total time is the amount of 
"work" the CPU has done (the units should technically be CPU-seconds or 
core-seconds or something). It's a bit like the difference between a 
wall needing a total of 10 man-hours to build, but only 1 hour has 
elapsed because you got 10 men to do it.

Once you get more cores the difference becomes even greater, you could 
have an elapsed time of 4 seconds but a total CPU time of 38 seconds. In 
that example the render is complete in 4 seconds, not 38.


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