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From: Renderdog
Subject: Old Technology...Bathroom 1960 - Is electric shaving the future?
Date: 1 Apr 2003 09:45:14
Message: <web.3e89a4c57c3b3837340e19670@news.povray.org>
An amazing image! I think it perfectly captures a bathroom
from the 60's.

Though its score was probably hurt by the smallness of the
technology (and maybe because electric shavers are still
common today), this image scored the highest on technical
merit for good reason.

Obviously excellent lighting. Very good use of color also,
a common strength among the images we've discussed so far.
It's a little blurry, but not unlike how I find my bathroom
in the early morning :-).

Superior use of tools. Photorealism like this hasn't been
possible until recently, and I'm facinated by the "eye" of
artists who can pick up and create what it takes to make
images look real.


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From: Slashdolt
Subject: Re: Old Technology...Bathroom 1960 - Is electric shaving the future?
Date: 1 Apr 2003 14:46:00
Message: <3e89ec78$1@news.povray.org>
> Superior use of tools. Photorealism like this hasn't been
> possible until recently, and I'm facinated by the "eye" of
> artists who can pick up and create what it takes to make
> images look real.

Frankly, this may be one of the most photorealistic POV-Ray creations that
I've ever seen for such a relatively complex scene.  I really have a hard
time finding anything about it that does not seem "real" to me.  Any flaws
would seem to be very minor.  The cord that stretches across the sink was
not simply straight, though perhaps it's a bit too conforming?  Even so, it
really doesn't detract from the realism aspect of this image.

The lighting rocks!  I need to learn more about how to do such good
lighting...


--
Slash


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From: gonzo
Subject: Re: Old Technology...Bathroom 1960 - Is electric shaving the future?
Date: 1 Apr 2003 15:45:08
Message: <web.3e89fa0958229289a0c272b50@news.povray.org>
Renderdog wrote:
>An amazing image! I think it perfectly captures a bathroom
>from the 60's.

Very nice image. Not sure about the 60s look, since I grew up in a house
that was already ancient by then. My remembrance of 60s bathrooms is
probably actually based on 30s-40s bathrooms :-/


>Obviously excellent lighting. Very good use of color also,
>a common strength among the images we've discussed so far.

Yes, the lighting makes the image. The radiosity is perfectly done, and
makes excellent use of the mirror.


>It's a little blurry, but not unlike how I find my bathroom
>in the early morning :-).

Only a little blurry?  My bathroom is nothing but blobs of light & shadow
until after the first cup of coffee ;-) (And a good reason for using the
electric razor!)

RG


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From: Jim Charter
Subject: Re: Old Technology...Bathroom 1960 - Is electric shaving the future?
Date: 1 Apr 2003 19:23:52
Message: <3e8a2d98@news.povray.org>
A photorealistic tour-de-force, this picture is a study in the 
relationship between surface and light.
It models an environment primary composed of hard but soft-shaped, 
close-toned surfaces.  The modelling of the various fixtures is smooth 
and accurate. Nearly half of the pictorial space is a mirror reflection. 
Much of the light is indirect. While the overall color of the scene is a 
warm, grayish, yellow, the actual pigments for most of the scene, are 
neutral white ( the wall tiles ) and cool mauve ( the sink and toilet ).

Much of the action is in the finishes.  The ceramics use small amounts 
of variable reflection accented by the clean reflection of the mirror. 
There are subtle differentiations, for instance, between the ceramic of 
the tile ( specular .2 phong .4 ) and the ceramic of the sink and toilet 
( specular .1 phong .5 )

The rest of the action is in the use of light.  Using Jaimes lighting 
macros, Peter balances 60 Watt incandescent with cool florescent on 
daylight film.  Much of the incandescent light is indirect except in a 
contrasting, accenting slash of an overexposed highlight.  There are few 
deep shadows.

The radiosity is most noticeable where the orangish wood texture of the 
partially opened door adds radiated richness of color to the wall 
nearby.  In the areas of indirect incandescence,  barely perceptible, 
warm and cool varigations in the surfaces of the tiles create atmosphere.

The realism is enhanced with attention to such details as the casual 
arrangement of objects on the countertop, the careful detailing of the 
objects themselves, ( the soapbar is an isosurface ), or the use of 
simcloth to drape the towels

The stance in relation to the topic is again one of picturing a dated 
technology ( electric shaver) in relation to its environment ( a 
bathroom of '60's decor ).  It seems incidental to the main thrust of 
the picture but I've never let that bother me.


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From: Jet Jaguar
Subject: Re: Old Technology...Bathroom 1960 - Is electric shaving the future?
Date: 1 Apr 2003 20:07:27
Message: <mpck8vkr26aclpk3rc7cc4nr7lo0v12ive@4ax.com>
The realism of this image is astounding, visually one of my favorites
of the round.  The only real problem I had with the scene is that it
was not clear what the subject was supposed to be without reading the
text file.  I also found it odd that the sink doesn't have any cabinet
doors. :-)

Also a minor nitpick is that the electric razor was invented about
1930 and was popularized in the mid to late 30's.  So really it's not
a scene of a technology in it's formative stages, as electric shaving
was already well established by the 1960's.  I let that slide, though.

---
Jet Jaguar
Visit my crappy home page at http://home.att.net/~chmilnir/
MSTie #54297


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From: Peter Hertel
Subject: Re: Old Technology...Bathroom 1960 - Is electric shaving the future?
Date: 3 Apr 2003 16:10:00
Message: <3e8ca328@news.povray.org>
Hello all

Let me first say thank you very much for all the kind comments, I'm
overwhelmed! =)
I've posted some the flaws in the image elsewhere, so I'll leave them
out here..

***Photorealism:***
"Frankly, this may be one of the most photorealistic POV-Ray creations
that I've ever seen for such a relatively complex scene." "Photorealism
like this hasn't been possible until recently, and I'm facinated by the
"eye" of artists who can pick up and create what it takes to make images
look real" "The realism of this image is astounding"
I'm not sure I deserve statements like this :) Thank you very much, I'm
flattered!
My self-confidence likes to get the highest technically score. I've been
using POV-Ray for 4 years now, and I have some experience. I got to do a
lot of SDL modelling and tweaking, which I'm very fond of. But somehow I
feel like I'm cheating a bit since the lighting and radiosity depends so
heavily on others excellent work?

***Image setup and creation process:***
I decided to make a razor, and then a bathroom to put it in. The mirror
was put in from the start, and I liked the effect very much. At first I
was going for a closeup of the razors, seeing only the lower part of the
mirror and a bit of the sink. But as the process went on, I got fond of
the bathroom and the radiosity, so the view was moved to see more of the
objects. I belive it became an overall better image, but the concept
drowned a bit.

***The 60's:***
As mentioned in the .txt file, I've never experienced the 60's. So it
was a mixture of poor refernce pics, advice from my mother, wild
guessing and a interior design book from the 80's :)
"I also found it odd that the sink doesn't have any cabinet doors. :-)"
Me too, but almost all the reference pictures I found had sinks like
this, with no cabinets. What a waste of space..  :-)

***Concept:***
"a minor nitpick is that the electric razor was invented about 1930".
Without being too sure, I belive the Remington electric razor was (at
least one of) the first _rechargable_ razors, created in ~1960. The
title should perhaps've been "Bathroom 1960 - Is rechargable electric
razors the future?" :-D
There is an double old technology meaning in the scene, the whole
bathroom and everything is old, and the there is the hand razor (old)
which lies in the shadow of the electric razor ("new").
The story goes like this: It's noon. The bathroom owner (let's call him
Mr. Bath) has just returned from the store with a new rechargable razor.
Mr. Bath takes it to the bathroom to charge it up, he pushes the old
hand-razor away to make place for the new invention. He plugs in the
charger, but something distracts him and he leaves the ad he got from
the shop and leaves the bathroom, turning off the light (forgot to make
a lamp ;), leaving the door open so the light flows into the room.
I changed the title of the image in the very last minute, because
someone mentioned it might be hard to see the razor. The title got a bit
too long, but I hoped it would help to understand the concept better. It
shouldn't have been nessecary though, a image should talk for itself.

One thing I like about the image is that it's modelled and rendered with
totally free tools! (PSP6 is not free though.. But it could've been done
with The Gimp).

If you're interested in some development images and the PNG version, I'm
going to update my homepage soon. I hope to do it next week. A higher
res. image might also get available.


-Peter
http://hertel.no/peter


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From: Slashdolt
Subject: Re: Old Technology...Bathroom 1960 - Is electric shaving the future?
Date: 4 Apr 2003 13:25:37
Message: <3e8dce21$1@news.povray.org>
> One thing I like about the image is that it's modelled and rendered with
> totally free tools! (PSP6 is not free though.. But it could've been done
> with The Gimp).

Yes!  I'm also glad that you included your source, for others (like me) to
learn from.

> If you're interested in some development images and the PNG version, I'm
> going to update my homepage soon. I hope to do it next week. A higher
> res. image might also get available.

That would be nice.  I'll try to remember to check it in a few days.  Keep
up the excellent work!

--
Slash


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From: Renderdog
Subject: Re: Old Technology...Bathroom 1960 - Is electric shaving the future?
Date: 4 Apr 2003 14:10:08
Message: <web.3e8dd832582292897ba9929f0@news.povray.org>
Peter Hertel wrote:
>But somehow I feel like I'm cheating a bit since the lighting and
>radiosity depends so heavily on others excellent work?

Not even remotely cheating in my book. I think reinventing the wheel is a
waste of time; building on other's contributions expands our abilities. I'd
like to see more well-written, easy-to-use (and modify) macros for various
items and effects.

Someday I may write a good brick wall macro, one with enough variables to
allow everyone the luxury of focusing on design, not the bricks and mortar.


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From: Peter Hertel
Subject: Re: Old Technology...Bathroom 1960 - Is electric shaving the future?
Date: 12 Apr 2003 17:20:45
Message: <3e98832d@news.povray.org>
> Yes!  I'm also glad that you included your source, for others (like
me) to
> learn from.
Hope they come of use to you! They were pretty messy, but I've always
included my sources with my IRTC entries, so I felt I had to follow up
the good tradition! (As a sidenote: I've only participated three times,
what a tradition! =)

> That would be nice.  I'll try to remember to check it in a few days.
I've just updated my page, and rendering a large resolution image now.
3days 16 hours 72% so far..

>Keep up the excellent work!
Thanks, and the same to you!

--
Peter
http://hertel.no/peter


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