Seeing as everything is getting more advanced with computers and
PoV-Ray now, is it possible that the IRTC stills competition can be
every three months instead of two months?

    Four comps a year instead of five? More time, better images? From
more people?

    Seriously - just a thought/suggestion. Please debate with your
views.

    I don't mind two months, but it sure gets tricky towards the
end...  ;)

    ~Steve~

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"St." wrote:
> 
>  Seeing as everything is getting more advanced with computers and
> PoV-Ray now, is it possible that the IRTC stills competition can be
> every three months instead of two months?

I'm quite happy with the two month contests, but maybe announcing the
next topic further in advance (ie. before the current contest finishes)
would be better for people who want to spend more time on a smaller
number of entries per year ?

Bernard

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"Bernard Hatt" <bmh### [at] arkadydemoncouk> wrote in message
news:402A7BD0.64362D4A@arkady.demon.co.uk...

> I'm quite happy with the two month contests, but maybe announcing
the
> next topic further in advance (ie. before the current contest
finishes)
> would be better for people who want to spend more time on a smaller
> number of entries per year ?

     Now, that's a great and better idea. I'm all for that suggestion.
I find that I'm usually thinking about 'what' to do for around one to
two weeks before even attempting something. Or sometimes I'll just
jump straight in with a quick idea, and then do a lot of work and end
up scrapping the image - simply because I don't think it's worth
carrying on with it for the comp,  - or that I know I'm not going to
finish it in time. This has happened many times over the last year for
me.

   Thanks for your comments.

     ~Steve~

>
> Bernard

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St. wrote:

>  Seeing as everything is getting more advanced with computers and
> PoV-Ray now, is it possible that the IRTC stills competition can be
> every three months instead of two months?
> 
>     Four comps a year instead of five? More time, better images? From
> more people?
> 
>     Seriously - just a thought/suggestion. Please debate with your
> views.
> 
>     I don't mind two months, but it sure gets tricky towards the
> end...  ;)

My present situation certainly makes want to throw in with you on this 
one.  Again I find that I have already committed a lot of time, blood, 
and guts to an entry, only to find now that to have any chance of 
completing it, I would need to make an almost singular commitment of 
time in the remaining three weeks.  But, similar to last round, it took 
almost a month to settle on an idea and get started.  And "mythology" 
jazzed me from the start.  Furthermore, because I'd started late on the 
  previous round, and failed to complete my entry despite a big effort, 
I made an concerted attempt to motivate myself early this time.  There 
were lots of ideas to choose from, but it still took awhile to isolate 
one that I could stand behind artistically.

I must treat my problems with suspicion however.  In the past, I 
completed one of my most skilled entries ("Sea" round) in a short two 
weeks, while I was on vacation.  I coded it almost entirely on paper 
without access to a computer then transferred it to my machine for 
testing when I returned just a few days before the deadline.  In another 
round ("Warfare" round) I had the idea very early in the entry period. 
While it still took a week or two to commit to and research it, I did 
get an adequate start. It carried a big emotional load for me and 
basically I ran short on technical ability and vision before I ran short 
on time.  So because of these two examples I have always felt that if 
the circumstances all come together for you, two months is in fact 
enough time.  I am suspicious that while now it seems to take me 3 weeks 
to a month to settle on a concept, if the entry period were extended to 
three months I would use up two of them getting started.

Also, extending the period might lead to a vicious cycle, entries would 
become even more ambitious so that competitive entries would still 
require a huge time commitment.  However, as you point out, with the 
increased capacity of POV-Ray alone, perhaps greater ambition should be 
accommodated.  Early release of the topic was experimented with in the 
"Horror" round.  As I recall the results were mixed, and the experiment 
was never repeated.  Personally I thought that was a shame.  I thought 
the idea had potential and didn't really understand why it was so easily 
dismissed. I think it was because it didn't seem to make much 
difference. It really didn't result in the better images everyone was 
hoping for. I didn't participate in the debate much I'll admit.  At that 
time my skill level was so low that the issue was largely irrelevant to me.

But not only has POV-Ray and other tools become more powerful and offer 
more potential for expression, it is often at the cost of time.  Chris 
Hormann's isosurface landscapes are an example. Sophisticated use of 
media is often laborious in a short entry period.  Mesh modelling is 
also now possible in the freeware space and opens up further expressive 
possibilities.  It may also be true that some participants have reached 
a skill level where greater ambition may be required to engage their 
interest.  While time management strategies are a significant aspect and 
measure of skill level, it is not the only one.

I started out with the believe that I would conclude against your idea 
only to find I have talked myself into it!  Or at least some version of 
it.  Perhaps more experimenting.  Early release of topics, or of 
selected topics during the year, or of topics for additional longer term 
contests? Perhaps a long/short cycle, three months followed by one month 
in any given four month period? It may in fact be time to consider if 
there is a next level we can get to.

Thanks for raising the discussion Steve.

-Jim

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> I'm quite happy with the two month contests, but maybe announcing the
> next topic further in advance (ie. before the current contest finishes)
> would be better for people who want to spend more time on a smaller
> number of entries per year ?

Excellent idea.

Post a reply to this message

"Bernard Hatt" <bmh### [at] arkadydemoncouk> wrote in message
news:402A7BD0.64362D4A@arkady.demon.co.uk...
> I'm quite happy with the two month contests, but maybe announcing the
> next topic further in advance (ie. before the current contest finishes)
> would be better for people who want to spend more time on a smaller
> number of entries per year ?

But surely that's unfair on people who want to enter consecutive competitions?
i.e. they can't start early 'cause they're still working on the current round.

I suppose it depends how much in advance, certainly a week earlier would be good
because even when I am entering consecutive competitions there's always a period
of time where I'm sat around with nothing to do in between contests.

-- 
Tek
www.evilsuperbrain.com

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St. wrote:
 
>     I don't mind two months, but it sure gets tricky towards the
> end...  ;)
> 

I know all about your problem, Steve. I think that one thing you and I have
in common is the desire to play architect to every building, engineer to
every vehicle, and god to every bird and bug in a picture. Makes for a
great hobby, but doesn't get anything done quickly.

The one professional artist I know works at a very high level. He has a huge
library of objects which he has learned to draw. He is creative with the
combination of objects rather than with each individual element.

 -Shay

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"Shay" <sah### [at] simcopartscom> wrote in message
news:402edae3@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>
> >     I don't mind two months, but it sure gets tricky towards the
> > end...  ;)
> >
>
> I know all about your problem, Steve. I think that one thing you and
I have
> in common is the desire to play architect to every building,
engineer to
> every vehicle, and god to every bird and bug in a picture. Makes for
a
> great hobby, but doesn't get anything done quickly.

    Yes, because strangely enough, we're learning how to use PoV and
associated programs ALL the time - in my experience, a LOT of
experimenting* goes on before I'm even happy with what I've got, and
then of course, you have to think of 'how' you're going to implement
it in your scene.

  *For instance, I've only been using Wings for about a month now, and
my Wings folder is 243Mb's - that's 42 Wings files and other
associated files - and that boils down to 4 images, 2 completed, 2
unfinished.


>
> The one professional artist I know works at a very high level. He
has a huge
> library of objects which he has learned to draw. He is creative with
the
> combination of objects rather than with each individual element.

    You're right of course, and that's also what I've been failing
with. Imagination plays a big part, (and I have a good imagination),
but sometimes you're limited with what you can do in a scene because
of the 'experimenting' that goes on. I have to say though, that I do
like the idea of knowing a topic in advance simply so that you can
'chew' on an idea - if you cock it up - well, that's you're own fault
then.

   ~Steve~


>
>  -Shay

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"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote in message
news:402acfa9$1@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:

> >     Four comps a year instead of five? More time, better images?
From
> > more people?

   Sorry, I did mean six.

 <Snip>

 > Also, extending the period might lead to a vicious cycle, entries
would
> become even more ambitious so that competitive entries would still
> require a huge time commitment.  However, as you point out, with the
> increased capacity of POV-Ray alone, perhaps greater ambition should
be
> accommodated.  Early release of the topic was experimented with in
the
> "Horror" round.  As I recall the results were mixed, and the
experiment
> was never repeated.  Personally I thought that was a shame.  I
thought
> the idea had potential and didn't really understand why it was so
easily
> dismissed. I think it was because it didn't seem to make much
> difference. It really didn't result in the better images everyone
was
> hoping for. I didn't participate in the debate much I'll admit.  At
that
> time my skill level was so low that the issue was largely irrelevant
to me.

    Ah, I missed that, (got my PC in 2000), but I've just had a look
at the Horror round, and I don't see anything that's majorly different
to any other round, but perhaps in this round, more people actually
*did* submit something rather than not? I guess we'll never know.


>
> But not only has POV-Ray and other tools become more powerful and
offer
> more potential for expression, it is often at the cost of time.
Chris
> Hormann's isosurface landscapes are an example. Sophisticated use of
> media is often laborious in a short entry period.  Mesh modelling is
> also now possible in the freeware space and opens up further
expressive
> possibilities.  It may also be true that some participants have
reached
> a skill level where greater ambition may be required to engage their
> interest.  While time management strategies are a significant aspect
and
> measure of skill level, it is not the only one.

     Agreed.

>
> I started out with the believe that I would conclude against your
idea
> only to find I have talked myself into it!  Or at least some version
of
> it.  Perhaps more experimenting.  Early release of topics, or of
> selected topics during the year, or of topics for additional longer
term
> contests? Perhaps a long/short cycle, three months followed by one
month
> in any given four month period? It may in fact be time to consider
if
> there is a next level we can get to.
>
> Thanks for raising the discussion Steve.

  Well, I think it's a valid option to consider again, for sure. I
love participating in the IRTC, and when I can't submit something, and
then I look at the images that have been submitted, I always say to
myself; "Why didn't I do something like that?", or "Damn, that's what
I should have done, but in a different way". It frustrates me.

  Anyway, hopefully, I'll have something to submit this time.  ;)

   ~Steve~

>
> -Jim

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St. wrote:

> 
>     Ah, I missed that, (got my PC in 2000), but I've just had a look

What is your actual programming (as separate from computer) experience?

> at the Horror round, and I don't see anything that's majorly different
> to any other round, but perhaps in this round, more people actually
> *did* submit something rather than not? I guess we'll never know.

I think it's a bit regretable that every decision need have a measurable 
outcome.  I still think it was an interesting experiment.  Just to 
create a little variety.  For the record, I think this is an appropriate 
place to sound out interest on the idea.  I am not sure that the people 
who would make that decision actually frequent this group.

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