"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in
news:3e5e415f@news.povray.org: 

> In article <web.3e5e38438feffecd4a47b6380@news.povray.org> , "Brian" 
> <brl### [at] smcmedu> wrote:
> 
>> I am writing an program that generates POV files, then I want a
>> seperate thread to call POV-ray to render the files.  The problem is,
>> when I call POV-ray from the program with the right command line
>> parameters, it loads the splash screen and the text editor with the
>> file I want rendered open waiting for the user.  Is there a way of
>> calling POV-ray where is just pops up to render the file, or even
>> just renders the file in the background, and saves output to a file?
> 
> This is the wrong group to ask this question.  I assume you are
> talking about the Windows version, and for that it has been explained
> several times in the past few month in povray.windows.  Just go
> through the list of posts there.
> 
>     Thorsten
> 

This has become a frequent request. There have been several custom 
compliles of a console mode version for windows, and at least one gui 
extension.  Would the team consider providing a official console mode 
version with the next bugfix release?  Follow ups set to povray.windows

Thanks
Tom

Post a reply to this message

You could also install cygwin and use Christoph Hormann's povcyg.

George


"Tom Galvin" <tom### [at] imporg> wrote in message
news:Xns### [at] 204213191226...
> "Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in
> news:3e5e415f@news.povray.org:
>
> > In article <web.3e5e38438feffecd4a47b6380@news.povray.org> , "Brian"
> > <brl### [at] smcmedu> wrote:
> >
> >> I am writing an program that generates POV files, then I want a
> >> seperate thread to call POV-ray to render the files.  The problem is,
> >> when I call POV-ray from the program with the right command line
> >> parameters, it loads the splash screen and the text editor with the
> >> file I want rendered open waiting for the user.  Is there a way of
> >> calling POV-ray where is just pops up to render the file, or even
> >> just renders the file in the background, and saves output to a file?
> >
> > This is the wrong group to ask this question.  I assume you are
> > talking about the Windows version, and for that it has been explained
> > several times in the past few month in povray.windows.  Just go
> > through the list of posts there.
> >
> >     Thorsten
> >
>
> This has become a frequent request. There have been several custom
> compliles of a console mode version for windows, and at least one gui
> extension.  Would the team consider providing a official console mode
> version with the next bugfix release?  Follow ups set to povray.windows
>
> Thanks
> Tom
>
>

Post a reply to this message

Tom Galvin wrote:
> 
> This has become a frequent request. There have been several custom
> compliles of a console mode version for windows, and at least one gui
> extension.  Would the team consider providing a official console mode
> version with the next bugfix release?  Follow ups set to povray.windows

There is a windows console version available on my site:

http://www-public.tu-bs.de:8080/~y0013390/povcyg/index.html

This should run straight away on any 32 bit Windows system.  It of course
requires the user to know how to invoke POV-Ray at the command line but
that's a different problem... ;-).

Christoph

-- 
POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 31 Dec. 2002 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______

Post a reply to this message

Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde> wrote in 
news:3E5E75D2.69ACFCCB@gmx.de:


> There is a windows console version available on my site:
> 
> http://www-public.tu-bs.de:8080/~y0013390/povcyg/index.html
> 
> 
> Christoph
> 

Yours was one of the custom compiles I was referring to.  A very nice job 
by the way.  However there are times when you prefer to use the "official 
version" for various reason that have been mentioned on this server before.

Tom

Post a reply to this message

In article <Xns### [at] 204213191226> , Tom Galvin 
<tom### [at] imporg>  wrote:

> This has become a frequent request. There have been several custom
> compliles of a console mode version for windows, and at least one gui
> extension.  Would the team consider providing a official console mode
> version with the next bugfix release?  Follow ups set to povray.windows

Well, while it isn't my decision (for Windows), I think it isn't a good idea
to provide this as an official version.  It far too easily opens the door to
abuse, and those few who say they need it most of the time don't really know
why they _don't_ need it.  They simply didn't read in the manual carefully
enough to know how to achieve 99% of what they want with the GUI version
only version already.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

Post a reply to this message

"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:3e5e81d5@news.povray.org...

> It far too easily opens the door to
> abuse

Given the source is available, any serious abuser (i.e. someone with something
to actually gain from it) has the keys to that door already. I'm not
disagreeing - cutting a key and coming across an open door are not the same
thing - but as a general principal, making things awkward for all whilst not
actually preventing the behaviour you're trying to prohibit has little to
recommend it.

Post a reply to this message

Thanks everyone for your help

Brian

Post a reply to this message

"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
>
> It far too easily opens the door to
> abuse

How's that?

> and those few who say they need it most of the time don't really
> know why they _don't_ need it.  They simply didn't read in the
> manual carefully enough to know <>

Would you some day believe that it is you who don't know something?

I, for one, am *bound* to use my own heavily modified custom console Win32
version of POV-Ray for 100% of my work. And each time the POV-Team releases
new version, I have to start with UNIX version (historically, so to say; in
1996, I tried both Windows and UNIX versions as base and liked the latter
more; so it stuck) instead of just applying patches to "official" Win32
console version. I cannot speak for others, but I can assure you that I,
personally, cannot just "read the manual carefully" and find out all my
extensions there.

You may have a 1000 of good reasons not to release a Win32 console version.
You may have no extra time, or you may just dislike the very idea, for
whatever reason. You don't even have to reply to the requests, at all. But
if you do so, please spare "those few who need it" your usual arrogance.

Post a reply to this message

"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in
news:3e5e81d5@news.povray.org: 

> Well, while it isn't my decision (for Windows), I think it isn't a
> good idea to provide this as an official version.  It far too easily
> opens the door to abuse, and those few who say they need it most of
> the time don't really know why they _don't_ need it.  They simply
> didn't read in the manual carefully enough to know how to achieve 99%
> of what they want with the GUI version only version already.
> 
>     Thorsten
> 


IMHO, and based on the postings on this server, I think that for the most 
part the folks asking for this have read the docs, and they want to be able 
to "externally" automate the render process when creating animations.  
There are no intentions of abuse, just trying to make animation easier and 
more flexible.  Currently there are just four options available.

1) Use a custom compile
2) Write a GUI-extension
3) Shell-out to Operating System
4) run pvengine.exe with /exit

Each has it's drawbacks.

Post a reply to this message

In article <Xns### [at] 204213191226> , Tom Galvin 
<tom### [at] imporg>  wrote:

> 4) run pvengine.exe with /exit
>
> Each has it's drawbacks.

Using a command-line version is exactly the same.  It is not like the
command-line version will continue to run after the render finished!  So the
difference is essentially zero.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

Post a reply to this message

In article <3e61116f@news.povray.org> , "Vadim Sytnikov" <syt### [at] rucom>
wrote:

> You may have a 1000 of good reasons not to release a Win32 console version.
> You may have no extra time, or you may just dislike the very idea, for
> whatever reason. You don't even have to reply to the requests, at all. But
> if you do so, please spare "those few who need it" your usual arrogance.

If you need more control, rather than wasting time creating a custom Windows
command-line version each time an official Windows version is released,
maybe you should just decide to write a GUI extension that does pretty much
the same without the need for having a custom version?  But hey, seems like
complaining is soooo much easier :-(

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

Post a reply to this message

"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
>
> If you need more control, rather than wasting time creating a custom
> Windows command-line version each time an official Windows version
> is released, maybe you should just decide to write a GUI extension that
> does pretty much the same without the need for having a custom version?

Thorsten, I wish I could do so. But the thing is that my custom version of
POV-Ray is (repeatedly) run from within my other application running in
DirectX hi-color full-screen mode, and has to be run absolutely quietly,
without gaining focus, switching screen mode, drawing anything on screen
etc. To the best of my knowledge, the only way to do so under Windows is to
make POV-Ray a console application, and launch it with so-called detached
console. The exact code that runs POV-Ray from within my other application
looks like this:

  if( CreateProcess(
    NULL,             // no module name: use cmdline (it will search PATH)
    pov_cmdline,      // command line
    NULL,             // no process security attributes
    NULL,             // no thread security attributes
    TRUE,             // inherit handles
    DETACHED_PROCESS, // creation flags: no console (won't be visible
anyway)
    NULL,             // inherit environment
    NULL,             // start in current folder
    & pov_startup,    // pass startup info
    & pov_pinfo ))    // get created handles and IDs
  ...

The above is the unmodified code snippet. Please note the DETACHED_PROCESS
flag.

> But hey, seems like complaining is soooo much easier :-(

Thorsten... ooh... how can I explain this? I sincerely appreciate your, and
others', efforts as to the continued development of POV-Ray. I wish I were
in position to do that much. And I in no way complain about the development
of POV-Ray.

And I did *not* ask for Win32 console version, myself. Pls re-read my
message. The only thing I ask for: please do not take every suggestion
and/or disagreement as a sign of ignorance and/or attack aimed at you, and
try to treat that more lightly... Pretty please.

Post a reply to this message

"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in
news:3e6149d2$1@news.povray.org: 

> In article <Xns### [at] 204213191226> , Tom Galvin 
> <tom### [at] imporg>  wrote:
> 
>> 4) run pvengine.exe with /exit
>>
>> Each has it's drawbacks.
> 
> Using a command-line version is exactly the same.  It is not like the
> command-line version will continue to run after the render finished! 
> So the difference is essentially zero.
> 

Not exactly zero.  It will grab the focus in Windows for each frame.  This 
makes working on the machine challenging during animations with hundreds or
thousands of frames.  

I am not a C programmer, so I am not able to contribute in that manner, 
but I have tried to be supportive in other ways that I am capable of. 
Please don't take this as a complaint.  It is only a request for
consideration.  I am very appreciative of all the work that has been
done by the team over the past decade. 

Tom

Post a reply to this message

In article <3e615933$1@news.povray.org> , "Vadim Sytnikov" <syt### [at] rucom>
wrote:

> Thorsten, I wish I could do so. But the thing is that my custom version of
> POV-Ray is (repeatedly) run from within my other application running in
> DirectX hi-color full-screen mode

Definitely something the average user is doing...

And apart from that, the request to force POV-Ray to always remain hidden
(the original in this thread) can be used to violate the license.  Obviously
official versions do not come with built-in means to violate the license,
that would be kind of stupid, don't you think?

>> But hey, seems like complaining is soooo much easier :-(
>
> Thorsten... ooh... how can I explain this? I sincerely appreciate your, and
> others', efforts as to the continued development of POV-Ray. I wish I were
> in position to do that much. And I in no way complain about the development
> of POV-Ray.
>
> And I did *not* ask for Win32 console version, myself. Pls re-read my
> message. The only thing I ask for: please do not take every suggestion
> and/or disagreement as a sign of ignorance and/or attack aimed at you, and
> try to treat that more lightly... Pretty please.

That is not the point here.  I don't develop the Windows version.  I just
have a problem with people who don't read the manual and then wonder why the
have problem achieving non-trivial tasks.  They don't read any previous
messages in this group either, because, as you state, there have been a few
threads about this before.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

Post a reply to this message

Vadim Sytnikov <syt### [at] rucom> wrote:
> Thorsten, I wish I could do so. But the thing is that my custom version of
> POV-Ray is (repeatedly) run from within my other application running in
> DirectX hi-color full-screen mode, and has to be run absolutely quietly,
> without gaining focus, switching screen mode, drawing anything on screen
> etc. To the best of my knowledge, the only way to do so under Windows is to
> make POV-Ray a console application, and launch it with so-called detached
> console.

  Have you ever used Moray? Have you noticed how it (repeatedly) uses
POV-Ray to render the scene? Have you ever wondered how it does it?

-- 
#macro N(D)#if(D>99)cylinder{M()#local D=div(D,104);M().5,2pigment{rgb M()}}
N(D)#end#end#macro M()<mod(D,13)-6mod(div(D,13)8)-3,10>#end blob{
N(11117333955)N(4254934330)N(3900569407)N(7382340)N(3358)N(970)}//  - Warp -

Post a reply to this message

"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
>
> And apart from that, the request to force POV-Ray to always remain
> hidden (the original in this thread) can be used to violate the license.
> Obviously official versions do not come with built-in means to violate
> the license, that would be kind of stupid, don't you think?

I see. Makes sense. But let me offer a bit of clarification. If you program
in C, then under Windows standard means of running other applications are
WinExec() and system(), the latter also being ANSI... Neither of these
functions provides for a 'quiet start': if your application is a console
one, then the console window will pop up inevitably, even if your
application does not print anything to console.

If you want a 'quiet statr', then you have to use CreateProcess(). It is a
relatively advanced technique, involving handles manipulations, treating
some handles as events and performing 'wait' on them etc. (not included in
my snippet). All in all, to use CreateProcess() properly is a more
complicated (in terms of skill) task than to strip down the windowed version
of POV-Ray to make it into the console one -- IMHO. Hope that you got the
idea.

Post a reply to this message

"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>
>   Have you ever used Moray? Have you noticed how it (repeatedly) uses
> POV-Ray to render the scene? Have you ever wondered how it does it?

Sure, I gave it a try. How it (repeatedly) uses it was what Thorsten has
suggested (a GUI extension), and I thought I have explained why I cannot use
that myself.

Post a reply to this message

In article <3e6299a8@news.povray.org> , "Vadim Sytnikov" <syt### [at] rucom>
wrote:

> Sure, I gave it a try. How it (repeatedly) uses it was what Thorsten has
> suggested (a GUI extension), and I thought I have explained why I cannot use
> that myself.

Of course you can!  All you need is documented at...

<http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/ipc/base/p
ipe_functions.asp>

    Thorsten

Post a reply to this message

"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
>
> > I thought I have explained why I cannot use that myself.
>
> Of course you can!

I was not referring to the very possibility, at all. I meant that I needed a
quiet start (no, not to violate the license! :-), and every time Windows
version of POV-Ray starts, it grabs focus and does other unwanted (for
me...) things.

Please just treat my "I cannot" as "I can, but I do not like what I get".

Post a reply to this message

Vadim Sytnikov wrote:
> 
> "Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> >
> > > I thought I have explained why I cannot use that myself.
> >
> > Of course you can!
> 
> I was not referring to the very possibility, at all. I meant that I needed a
> quiet start (no, not to violate the license! :-), and every time Windows
> version of POV-Ray starts, it grabs focus and does other unwanted (for
> me...) things.
> 
> Please just treat my "I cannot" as "I can, but I do not like what I get".

Well, it seems we have a solution here. You can use the source code to compile
your own console version. The POV-Team will continue providing POV-Ray as they
have. When you compile your own console version you do so with the full knowledge
that you will use if explicitely for your own purposes and will not distribute
it publically. I honestly don't see where the problem is.

-- 
Ken Tyler

Post a reply to this message

Vadim Sytnikov <syt### [at] rucom> wrote:
> I was not referring to the very possibility, at all. I meant that I needed a
> quiet start

  Is it really that bad that the POV-Ray splash screen shows up *once* at the
start of your program?
  As we can see from Moray, you only need to start POV-Ray once and then use
it for rendering during the whole execution of your program, no matter how
many renders you need.

> (no, not to violate the license! :-), and every time Windows
> version of POV-Ray starts, it grabs focus and does other unwanted (for
> me...) things.

  It doesn't grab focus with Moray.

-- 
plane{-x+y,-1pigment{bozo color_map{[0rgb x][1rgb x+y]}turbulence 1}}
sphere{0,2pigment{rgbt 1}interior{media{emission 1density{spherical
density_map{[0rgb 0][.5rgb<1,.5>][1rgb 1]}turbulence.9}}}scale
<1,1,3>hollow}text{ttf"timrom""Warp".1,0translate<-1,-.1,2>}//  - Warp -

Post a reply to this message

"Ken" <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
>
> Well, it seems we have a solution here. You can use the source code to
> compile your own console version. The POV-Team will continue providing
> POV-Ray as they have. When you compile your own console version you
> do so with the full knowledge that you will use if explicitely for your
own
> purposes and will not distribute it publically. I honestly don't see where
the
> problem is.

Sure, there is no problem. I just tried (w/o much luck, as I see, in that no
one got it; my language problem?) to say that *if* there were an official
console version, it would make my life easier. I did not say that since
there are no official Win32 console version, I have a problem... No.

<completely different matter>

It is my understanding that if I ever decide to distribute my programs
(either publicly or just to a selected people; BTW, currently, I distribute
just the results of their work, so to say) altogether with the custom
version of POV-Ray, I have to do the following:
1) make complete sourse code (== all my modifications) of the custom POV-Ray
version publicly available,
2) make sure that each time my software runs POV-Ray, this fact is
prominently presented to the user of said software, by whatever means.
3) include original POV-Ray legal and authorship information.

Current scheme looks like this: when my software runs POV-Ray, respective
message appears on its console. The POV-Ray itself resides in the bin
subfolder, altogether with povlegal.doc and povwhere.txt files. If run by
itself (povray.exe), it displays all the credits and copyright information,
just as an official version does. The version is clearly marked as
"Unofficial Win32 Console (x86)..." etc.

I acknowledge that I'm currently the only user of my custom version of
POV-Ray and that, as soon as I pass it to anyone esle, I will make the
complete source code publicly available.

</completely different matter>

Post a reply to this message

Vadim Sytnikov wrote:

> <completely different matter>
> 
> It is my understanding that if I ever decide to distribute my programs
> (either publicly or just to a selected people; BTW, currently, I distribute
> just the results of their work, so to say) altogether with the custom
> version of POV-Ray, I have to do the following:
> 1) make complete sourse code (== all my modifications) of the custom POV-Ray
> version publicly available,
> 2) make sure that each time my software runs POV-Ray, this fact is
> prominently presented to the user of said software, by whatever means.
> 3) include original POV-Ray legal and authorship information.
> 
> Current scheme looks like this: when my software runs POV-Ray, respective
> message appears on its console. The POV-Ray itself resides in the bin
> subfolder, altogether with povlegal.doc and povwhere.txt files. If run by
> itself (povray.exe), it displays all the credits and copyright information,
> just as an official version does. The version is clearly marked as
> "Unofficial Win32 Console (x86)..." etc.
> 
> I acknowledge that I'm currently the only user of my custom version of
> POV-Ray and that, as soon as I pass it to anyone esle, I will make the
> complete source code publicly available.
> 
> </completely different matter>

That pretty much sums it up. The POV-Team wants you to ensure that anyone
running one of your application in conjunction with POV-Ray is fully aware
that POV-Ray is a separate entity from your application and due credit is
given to the authors of POV-Ray and the POV-Team. We (The TAG and POV-Team)
don't go out of our way to advertise when we catch people distributing
POV-Ray illegally but it happens more often than we would like. There are
commercial programs developed and sold for large amounts of money that
offer "A Photo Realistic Rendering Engine" and the fact that POV-Ray is
used is totally hidden to the purchasers of the program.

-- 
Ken Tyler

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 02:55:09 +0300, "Vadim Sytnikov" <syt### [at] rucom> wrote:
> Sure, I gave it a try. How it (repeatedly) uses it was what Thorsten has
> suggested (a GUI extension), and I thought I have explained why I cannot use
> that myself.

So this is not enough for you ?

http://throwable.com/dreampeach/download/QuietPOV/

ABX

Post a reply to this message

"ABX" <abx### [at] abxartpl> wrote:
> > ...I thought I have explained why I cannot use
> > that myself.
>
> So this is not enough for you ?
>
> http://throwable.com/dreampeach/download/QuietPOV/

From their docs:
  "There are two parts to QuietPOV. There is the actual QuietPOV GUI
Extension which POV-Ray needs to load, and a command-line executable that
sends POV-Ray commands via the GUI Extension."

Please note the existance of the special command line executable. Seems like
it is a must if you teach the POV-Ray to start quiet.

So the answer is still "no, a GUI extension alone is not enough for me".

Post a reply to this message

Vadim Sytnikov wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> So the answer is still "no, a GUI extension alone is not enough for me".

That's not true, get the source code of that tool and have a look at the
file 'QuietPOV.cpp' which implements the console program you mentioned. 
You can implement the same functionality inside your program.

Christoph

-- 
POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 28 Feb. 2003 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______

Post a reply to this message

"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>
>   Is it really that bad that the POV-Ray splash screen shows up *once*
> at the start of your program?

Yes.

>   It doesn't grab focus with Moray.

It does. Or, as Thorsten would say, "of course it does".

Look, people...

(Well, Warp, I am referring not to you, personally, but to all of you who
"teach" here.)

I am somehow under strong impression that that my "it does" sentence will be
immediatelly replied with "no, sure it does not; you actually did not see
what you saw". I have just re-installed Moray 3.3 specially to test this
particular thing. On the very first run it did grab the focus and even did
not relinquish it. Any other runs (after exiting POV-Ray, but w/o rebooting
Win2000) led to grabbing and immediate releasing the focus to POV-Ray; sort
of a flicker.

What I want to say is that I would not want another reply that insists that
I do not actually need what I need and that I did not see what I actually
saw. Would it actually lead anywhere but to another... err, strong
disagreement? No. Then let's leave it at that.

Post a reply to this message

"Christoph Hormann" <chr### [at] gmxde> wrote:
>
> That's not true, get the source code of that tool and have a look at the
> file 'QuietPOV.cpp' which implements the console program you mentioned.
> You can implement the same functionality inside your program.

Christoph,

I have already implemented all the functionality I needed.

Thank you.

Post a reply to this message

Vadim Sytnikov <syt### [at] rucom> wrote:
>>   It doesn't grab focus with Moray.

> It does. Or, as Thorsten would say, "of course it does".

  Then it has changed since I last used. The last time I used it (well, it
was quite long ago) POV-Ray kept in the background all the time and rendered
the image into the render-window of Moray. Perhaps it has changed for some
odd reason.

-- 
#macro M(A,N,D,L)plane{-z,-9pigment{mandel L*9translate N color_map{[0rgb x]
[1rgb 9]}scale<D,D*3D>*1e3}rotate y*A*8}#end M(-3<1.206434.28623>70,7)M(
-1<.7438.1795>1,20)M(1<.77595.13699>30,20)M(3<.75923.07145>80,99)// - Warp -

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Warp's furious key-hammering produced this:
>>>   It doesn't grab focus with Moray.
>> 
>> It does. Or, as Thorsten would say, "of course it does".
> 
>   Then it has changed since I last used. The last time I used it (well, it
> was quite long ago) POV-Ray kept in the background all the time and rendered
> the image into the render-window of Moray. Perhaps it has changed for some
> odd reason.

Odder still, POV-Ray grabbing focus in Moray, at least for me, seems to happen
only on certain system configuration.  When I used Win2K POV-Ray jumped on top
of Moray when I told it to render (IIRC it didn't do it with material previews,
strangely enough).  However, since I moved up to WinXP it hasn't done that.

I think it jumped in front when I used it in Win95/98, but I don't remember for
sure -- that was many a year ago. ;)

-- 
/*^*/light_source{100*<-5,2,-5>2}#macro I(i,n)#while(strlen(i)>=n)#local A=asc(
substr(i,n,1));#local a=asc(substr(i,n+1,1));cylinder{<div(A,8)-12,mod(A,8)-4,4
><div(a,8)-12,mod(a,8)-4,4>,0.1pigment{rgb z}}#local n=n+2;#end#end I("ScUe[]"1
/*<*/)I("mkmtlttk"1)//@_$#!,:<"Thhis polysig brought to you by Ian Burgmyer :)"

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