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How do I get blurred reflections working in UberPOV? I had it working a
few years go, but have since forgotten how. Thanks.
Mike
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Le 18-02-06 à 19:09, Mike Horvath a écrit :
> How do I get blurred reflections working in UberPOV? I had it working a
> few years go, but have since forgotten how. Thanks.
>
>
> Mike
You only need to add roughness into the reflection block such as :
reflection{0.9 metallic roughness 0.001}
or
reflection{1 fresnel roughness 0.001}
or
reflection{0.8 roughness 0.001}
or
reflection{0.1, 1 roughness 0.001}
Normally, you also want to add specular highlights with the same
roughness amount.
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On 2/6/2018 7:22 PM, Alain wrote:
> Le 18-02-06 à 19:09, Mike Horvath a écrit :
>> How do I get blurred reflections working in UberPOV? I had it working
>> a few years go, but have since forgotten how. Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>
> You only need to add roughness into the reflection block such as :
>
> reflection{0.9 metallic roughness 0.001}
> or
> reflection{1 fresnel roughness 0.001}
> or
> reflection{0.8 roughness 0.001}
> or
> reflection{0.1, 1 roughness 0.001}
>
> Normally, you also want to add specular highlights with the same
> roughness amount.
Thanks! What do I use in the header?
One of my old scenes uses this:
#version unofficial patch 3.71;
#patch 0.99;
But I don't know if that's up-to-date.
Mike
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On 7-2-2018 2:10, Mike Horvath wrote:
> On 2/6/2018 7:22 PM, Alain wrote:
>> Le 18-02-06 à 19:09, Mike Horvath a écrit :
>>> How do I get blurred reflections working in UberPOV? I had it working
>>> a few years go, but have since forgotten how. Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>> You only need to add roughness into the reflection block such as :
>>
>> reflection{0.9 metallic roughness 0.001}
>> or
>> reflection{1 fresnel roughness 0.001}
>> or
>> reflection{0.8 roughness 0.001}
>> or
>> reflection{0.1, 1 roughness 0.001}
>>
>> Normally, you also want to add specular highlights with the same
>> roughness amount.
>
> Thanks! What do I use in the header?
>
> One of my old scenes uses this:
>
> #version unofficial patch 3.71;
> #patch 0.99;
>
> But I don't know if that's up-to-date.
>
>
> Mike
I have this:
#version unofficial patch 3.71;
#patch "upov-reflection-roughness" 0.9;
--
Thomas
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Le 18-02-06 à 20:10, Mike Horvath a écrit :
> On 2/6/2018 7:22 PM, Alain wrote:
>> Le 18-02-06 à 19:09, Mike Horvath a écrit :
>>> How do I get blurred reflections working in UberPOV? I had it working
>>> a few years go, but have since forgotten how. Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>> You only need to add roughness into the reflection block such as :
>>
>> reflection{0.9 metallic roughness 0.001}
>> or
>> reflection{1 fresnel roughness 0.001}
>> or
>> reflection{0.8 roughness 0.001}
>> or
>> reflection{0.1, 1 roughness 0.001}
>>
>> Normally, you also want to add specular highlights with the same
>> roughness amount.
>
> Thanks! What do I use in the header?
>
> One of my old scenes uses this:
>
> #version unofficial patch 3.71;
> #patch 0.99;
>
> But I don't know if that's up-to-date.
>
>
> Mike
No longer needed.
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On 2/6/2018 7:22 PM, Alain wrote:
> Le 18-02-06 à 19:09, Mike Horvath a écrit :
>> How do I get blurred reflections working in UberPOV? I had it working
>> a few years go, but have since forgotten how. Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>
> You only need to add roughness into the reflection block such as :
>
> reflection{0.9 metallic roughness 0.001}
> or
> reflection{1 fresnel roughness 0.001}
> or
> reflection{0.8 roughness 0.001}
> or
> reflection{0.1, 1 roughness 0.001}
>
> Normally, you also want to add specular highlights with the same
> roughness amount.
How do I set the roughness of a specular highlight?
Is there a `specular {}` block?
Mike
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On 2/6/2018 7:22 PM, Alain wrote:
> Le 18-02-06 à 19:09, Mike Horvath a écrit :
>> How do I get blurred reflections working in UberPOV? I had it working
>> a few years go, but have since forgotten how. Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>
> You only need to add roughness into the reflection block such as :
>
> reflection{0.9 metallic roughness 0.001}
> or
> reflection{1 fresnel roughness 0.001}
> or
> reflection{0.8 roughness 0.001}
> or
> reflection{0.1, 1 roughness 0.001}
>
> Normally, you also want to add specular highlights with the same
> roughness amount.
What would the correct way to update the following be?
#local ldrawChromeFin=finish {
brilliance 6
diffuse 0.7
metallic
specular 0.80
roughness 1/120
reflection 0.8
};
Do reflection and specular each have their own blocks containing a
roughness parameter?
#local ldrawChromeFin=finish {
brilliance 6
diffuse 0.7
metallic
specular {0.80 roughness 1/120}
reflection {0.8 roughness 1/120}
};
Mike
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On 8-2-2018 22:44, Alain wrote:
> Le 18-02-06 à 20:10, Mike Horvath a écrit :
>> On 2/6/2018 7:22 PM, Alain wrote:
>>> Le 18-02-06 à 19:09, Mike Horvath a écrit :
>>>> How do I get blurred reflections working in UberPOV? I had it
>>>> working a few years go, but have since forgotten how. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>
>>> You only need to add roughness into the reflection block such as :
>>>
>>> reflection{0.9 metallic roughness 0.001}
>>> or
>>> reflection{1 fresnel roughness 0.001}
>>> or
>>> reflection{0.8 roughness 0.001}
>>> or
>>> reflection{0.1, 1 roughness 0.001}
>>>
>>> Normally, you also want to add specular highlights with the same
>>> roughness amount.
>>
>> Thanks! What do I use in the header?
>>
>> One of my old scenes uses this:
>>
>> #version unofficial patch 3.71;
>> #patch 0.99;
>>
>> But I don't know if that's up-to-date.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>
> No longer needed.
Oh? I had not been aware of that. Good to know; thanks.
--
Thomas
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On 2/9/2018 7:19 AM, Mike Horvath wrote:
> On 2/6/2018 7:22 PM, Alain wrote:
>> Le 18-02-06 à 19:09, Mike Horvath a écrit :
>>> How do I get blurred reflections working in UberPOV? I had it working
>>> a few years go, but have since forgotten how. Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>> You only need to add roughness into the reflection block such as :
>>
>> reflection{0.9 metallic roughness 0.001}
>> or
>> reflection{1 fresnel roughness 0.001}
>> or
>> reflection{0.8 roughness 0.001}
>> or
>> reflection{0.1, 1 roughness 0.001}
>>
>> Normally, you also want to add specular highlights with the same
>> roughness amount.
>
> What would the correct way to update the following be?
>
>
> #local ldrawChromeFin=finish {
> brilliance 6
> diffuse 0.7
> metallic
> specular 0.80
> roughness 1/120
> reflection 0.8
> };
>
>
>
> Do reflection and specular each have their own blocks containing a
> roughness parameter?
>
>
> #local ldrawChromeFin=finish {
> brilliance 6
> diffuse 0.7
> metallic
> specular {0.80 roughness 1/120}
> reflection {0.8 roughness 1/120}
> };
>
>
>
> Mike
Ignore the `metallic` keyword there since I overlooked it too.
Mike
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Le 18-02-09 à 07:16, Mike Horvath a écrit :
> On 2/6/2018 7:22 PM, Alain wrote:
>> Le 18-02-06 à 19:09, Mike Horvath a écrit :
>>> How do I get blurred reflections working in UberPOV? I had it working
>>> a few years go, but have since forgotten how. Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>> You only need to add roughness into the reflection block such as :
>>
>> reflection{0.9 metallic roughness 0.001}
>> or
>> reflection{1 fresnel roughness 0.001}
>> or
>> reflection{0.8 roughness 0.001}
>> or
>> reflection{0.1, 1 roughness 0.001}
>>
>> Normally, you also want to add specular highlights with the same
>> roughness amount.
>
> How do I set the roughness of a specular highlight?
> Is there a `specular {}` block?
>
>
> Mike
finish{
diffuse 0.1
ambient 0
reflection{1 fresnel roughness 0.001 conserve_energy}
specular 0.7
roughness 0.001
}
It have been around like that for almost for ever...
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Le 18-02-09 à 07:19, Mike Horvath a écrit :
> On 2/6/2018 7:22 PM, Alain wrote:
>> Le 18-02-06 à 19:09, Mike Horvath a écrit :
>>> How do I get blurred reflections working in UberPOV? I had it working
>>> a few years go, but have since forgotten how. Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>> You only need to add roughness into the reflection block such as :
>>
>> reflection{0.9 metallic roughness 0.001}
>> or
>> reflection{1 fresnel roughness 0.001}
>> or
>> reflection{0.8 roughness 0.001}
>> or
>> reflection{0.1, 1 roughness 0.001}
>>
>> Normally, you also want to add specular highlights with the same
>> roughness amount.
>
> What would the correct way to update the following be?
>
>
> #local ldrawChromeFin=finish {
> brilliance 6
> diffuse 0.7
> metallic
> specular 0.80
> roughness 1/120
> reflection 0.8
> };
>
>
>
> Do reflection and specular each have their own blocks containing a
> roughness parameter?
>
>
> #local ldrawChromeFin=finish {
> brilliance 6
> diffuse 0.7
> metallic
> specular {0.80 roughness 1/120}
> reflection {0.8 roughness 1/120}
> };
This could cause an error message.
>
>
>
> Mike
This way :
#local ldrawChromeFin=finish {
brilliance 6
diffuse 0.7
metallic
specular 0.80 roughness 1/120
reflection {0.8 roughness 1/120 metallic}
}
The first metallic affect the specular or phong highlight. The metallic
in the reflection block affect the reflection only.
There is NO specular block.
Reflection may be used without a block which is the legacy syntax. In
that case, it will borrow the metallic of specular, but not the roughness.
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On 2/9/2018 8:23 PM, Alain wrote:
> This way :
> #local ldrawChromeFin=finish {
> brilliance 6
> diffuse 0.7
> metallic
> specular 0.80 roughness 1/120
> reflection {0.8 roughness 1/120 metallic}
> }
>
> The first metallic affect the specular or phong highlight. The metallic
> in the reflection block affect the reflection only.
> There is NO specular block.
> Reflection may be used without a block which is the legacy syntax. In
> that case, it will borrow the metallic of specular, but not the roughness.
>
Awesome, thanks. That clears up the syntax for me.
Mike
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Alain <kua### [at] videotron ca> wrote:
> Reflection may be used without a block which is the legacy syntax. In
> that case, it will borrow the metallic of specular, but not the roughness.
I didn't know that reflection would 'borrow' the specular's metallic in such a
case. Thanks.
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Le 18-02-10 à 02:59, Kenneth a écrit :
> Alain <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
>
>
>> Reflection may be used without a block which is the legacy syntax. In
>> that case, it will borrow the metallic of specular, but not the roughness.
>
> I didn't know that reflection would 'borrow' the specular's metallic in such a
> case. Thanks.
>
>
>
>
It's a leftover/backware compatibility thing.
Before the reflection block was introduced, there was no way to know if
any metallic modifier was intended for phong, specular or reflection.
Also, the actual order was totally ignored.
Thus
metallic
phong 1
phong_size 150
reflection 0.8
phong 1
metallic
phong_size 150
reflection 0.8
phong 1
reflection 0.8
metallic
phong_size 150
phong_size 150
metallic
reflection 0.8
phong 1
and
phong 1
phong_size 150
reflection 0.8
metallic
would gives the same result.
This is what I mean by "borrow".
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Alain <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
> Le 18-02-10 à 02:59, Kenneth a écrit :
> >
> > I didn't know that reflection would 'borrow' the specular's metallic
> > in such a
> > case. Thanks.
>
> It's a leftover/backware compatibility thing.
> Before the reflection block was introduced, there was no way to know if
> any metallic modifier was intended for phong, specular or reflection.
>
Ah. That explains the 'mystery' I used to wonder about in the older 3.6.x days--
I could never figure out exactly what was going on with metallic. Thanks!
Mystery solved ;-)
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Will blurred reflection integrate into official version one day? (this function
is too important)
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Am 16.07.2018 um 16:10 schrieb And:
> Will blurred reflection integrate into official version one day? (this function
> is too important)
One could argue that "too important" also means "too important to screw up".
So the answer to your question may depend on whether a sufficiently good
and robust implementation (including a sufficiently good syntax and all)
can be... well, implemented.
My gut feeling is that the answer is "yes".
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clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Am 16.07.2018 um 16:10 schrieb And:
> > Will blurred reflection integrate into official version one day? (this function
> > is too important)
>
> One could argue that "too important" also means "too important to screw up".
>
> So the answer to your question may depend on whether a sufficiently good
> and robust implementation (including a sufficiently good syntax and all)
> can be... well, implemented.
>
> My gut feeling is that the answer is "yes".
Well
But what is the disadvantage with recently implement?
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Am 18.07.2018 um 08:03 schrieb And:
> clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>> Am 16.07.2018 um 16:10 schrieb And:
>>> Will blurred reflection integrate into official version one day? (this function
>>> is too important)
>>
>> One could argue that "too important" also means "too important to screw up".
>>
>> So the answer to your question may depend on whether a sufficiently good
>> and robust implementation (including a sufficiently good syntax and all)
>> can be... well, implemented.
>>
>> My gut feeling is that the answer is "yes".
>
> Well
> But what is the disadvantage with recently implement?
If you want my opinion: Speed.
Blurred reflections work best when the render engine includes a good
framework for unbiased stochastic rendering, so that all oversampling
stuff -- blurred reflections, area lights, media, focal blur and
what-have-you-not -- don't cause the render time to explode exponentially.
POV-Ray does not have any such framework. UberPOV does, but it is still
rudimentary and probably needs lots more work.
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clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Am 18.07.2018 um 08:03 schrieb And:
> > clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> >> Am 16.07.2018 um 16:10 schrieb And:
> >>> Will blurred reflection integrate into official version one day? (this function
> >>> is too important)
> >>
> >> One could argue that "too important" also means "too important to screw up".
> >>
> >> So the answer to your question may depend on whether a sufficiently good
> >> and robust implementation (including a sufficiently good syntax and all)
> >> can be... well, implemented.
> >>
> >> My gut feeling is that the answer is "yes".
> >
> > Well
> > But what is the disadvantage with recently implement?
>
> If you want my opinion: Speed.
>
> Blurred reflections work best when the render engine includes a good
> framework for unbiased stochastic rendering, so that all oversampling
> stuff -- blurred reflections, area lights, media, focal blur and
> what-have-you-not -- don't cause the render time to explode exponentially.
>
Yeah... indeed. Unbiased stochastic rendering grew rapidly (and showed its
advantage) during this ten years.
> POV-Ray does not have any such framework. UberPOV does, but it is still
> rudimentary and probably needs lots more work.
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"And" <49341109@ntnu.edu.tw> wrote:
> Will blurred reflection integrate into official version one day? (this function
> is too important)
Things did evolve in the last two years. Now that Anti Aliasing method 3 is in
the main POV-Ray trunk, the said "framework" is there. The syntax... almost as
well, with things like the finish level fresnel paving the way to a similar
approach for roughness maybe. My question is, since then, did any other branch
than Uberpov also try to add this feature?
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On 5/9/20 4:29 PM, Mr wrote:
> "And" <49341109@ntnu.edu.tw> wrote:
>> Will blurred reflection integrate into official version one day? (this function
>> is too important)
> Things did evolve in the last two years. Now that Anti Aliasing method 3 is in
> the main POV-Ray trunk, the said "framework" is there. The syntax... almost as
> well, with things like the finish level fresnel paving the way to a similar
> approach for roughness maybe. My question is, since then, did any other branch
> than Uberpov also try to add this feature?
>
>
I'm not aware of any.
Bill P.
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On 2020-05-09 4:29 PM (-4), Mr wrote:
> "And" <49341109@ntnu.edu.tw> wrote:
>> Will blurred reflection integrate into official version one day? (this function
>> is too important)
> Things did evolve in the last two years. Now that Anti Aliasing method 3 is in
> the main POV-Ray trunk, the said "framework" is there. The syntax... almost as
> well, with things like the finish level fresnel paving the way to a similar
> approach for roughness maybe. My question is, since then, did any other branch
> than Uberpov also try to add this feature?
The knowledge base alludes to MegaPOV having some blurred reflection
capability, though I cannot find it in the MegaPOV documentation. But
MegaPOV development terminated long before UberPOV was released.
Since development of UberPOV has wound down, I've found myself reverting
to RC3Metal from the Object Collection, which works with standard
POV-Ray. What seems to work best for me with RC3Metal is to do a bunch
of EXR renders with different seeds in an animation loop, then read them
back as image maps and average them in a pigment_map. To save time, I
save the photons for the first 3 to 5 frames, then reuse them round
robin for the remaining frames. If there are no mutually reflecting
surfaces, I just use a single render with a high sample count.
Overall, UberPOV does a better job than RC3Metal, though, especially
with specular highlights.
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Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> On 2020-05-09 4:29 PM (-4), Mr wrote:
> > "And" <49341109@ntnu.edu.tw> wrote:
> >> Will blurred reflection integrate into official version one day? (this function
> >> is too important)
> > Things did evolve in the last two years. Now that Anti Aliasing method 3 is in
> > the main POV-Ray trunk, the said "framework" is there. The syntax... almost as
> > well, with things like the finish level fresnel paving the way to a similar
> > approach for roughness maybe. My question is, since then, did any other branch
> > than Uberpov also try to add this feature?
>
> The knowledge base alludes to MegaPOV having some blurred reflection
> capability, though I cannot find it in the MegaPOV documentation. But
> MegaPOV development terminated long before UberPOV was released.
>
> Since development of UberPOV has wound down, I've found myself reverting
> to RC3Metal from the Object Collection, which works with standard
> POV-Ray. What seems to work best for me with RC3Metal is to do a bunch
> of EXR renders with different seeds in an animation loop, then read them
> back as image maps and average them in a pigment_map. To save time, I
> save the photons for the first 3 to 5 frames, then reuse them round
> robin for the remaining frames. If there are no mutually reflecting
> surfaces, I just use a single render with a high sample count.
>
> Overall, UberPOV does a better job than RC3Metal, though, especially
> with specular highlights.
Hi Cousin Ricky
I had noticed your work on RC3Metal and also on sun & sky atmosphere, the
blender exporter could benefit a lot from your experiments!
However for the current issue, since exporter is already using Blender frames to
export a clock animation, I assume using clock for something else will add to
the already unreadable code. Also it already exports the possibility of a user's
bump_map, so micronormals have to combine with it, and also with the finish map
trick used to emulate a specular map.
For now I started testing a single "micro bump" layer averaged with the user
bump map and it kind of works better than I remembered, when I initially chose
Uberpov. Maybe I'm forgetting a use case that made me throw it away initially...
My latest attempt totally lost the user specular map visibility as it's kind of
eaten away by the micro bump... Next try, I should make it so that the one entry
with minimal specular also doesn't carry the microbump So the finish map trick
becomes a finish&bump_map metamap trick...
In the averaged normal_map I used 0.5 as the microbump entry value and same for
the user bump map.
I don't know if it will break when I add another layer with different seed of
microbump to the average in the same clockframe. then I would probably state
0.25 for each micro bump layer and 0.5 for user bump texture,... with microbump
muted in less specular areas(?), roughly speaking:
texture{
pigment_pattern {
uv_mapping image_map{jpeg "PATH\\TO\\UserSpecularMap.jpg" map_type 0
}
}
texture_map {
[0
pigment {rgbft<0.8, 0.8, 0.8, 0, 0>}
finish {finish_WITH_MIN_SPEC}
normal {user Bump_map only}
]
[1
pigment {rgbft<0.8, 0.8, 0.8, 0, 0>}
finish {finish_WITH_MAX_SPEC}
normal {average of microbump(s) and user bump_map}
]
}
}
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