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Hi All:
I was using POV-Ray, UniMegaPov and POVMan on my R.H. 6.2 Linux box
without problem since yesterday... some days ago I updated the OS to
R.H. 7.0, and all worked fine: all the renderers where working properly.
Since then, I installed some other packages on the system without
aparent problem, but, at some point, all my renders started to show
hundreds of strange white spots everywhere on the output image, even
with the text-only version of POV-Ray.
I'm sure this is something about my system software. Perhaps I updated
some librarie that introuced some bug... but I can't find it. I
uninstaled or downgraded all the packages I recently installed, but with
no result.
This "strange white spots" mistery happened already to someone? Any
help is appreciated: after all the effort I made to have my new AMD
1,2Ghz working properly, it's eally fustrating that now I can't render
anything...
--
Jaime Vives Piqueres
La Persistencia de la Ignorancia
http://www.ignorancia.org/
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Are you outputting to PNG? Did you change (ie. update) your png and/or libz
libraries? If so you should try to compile povray against the new libraries.
--
#macro N(D,I)#if(I<6)cylinder{M()#local D[I]=div(D[I],104);M().5,2pigment{
rgb M()}}N(D,(D[I]>99?I:I+1))#end#end#macro M()<mod(D[I],13)-6,mod(div(D[I
],13),8)-3,10>#end blob{N(array[6]{11117333955,
7382340,3358,3900569407,970,4254934330},0)}// - Warp -
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"Jaime Vives Piqueres" <jai### [at] ignorancia org> wrote:
> This "strange white spots" mistery happened already to someone? Any
> help is appreciated: after all the effort I made to have my new AMD 1,2Ghz
> working properly, it's eally fustrating that now I can't render
> anything...
>
I don't know if it is the same thing, but I do sometimes get strange white spots
in my images when I render under Linux; as far as I can see it seems to
happen on surfaces using reflection_exponent, however I haven't been able
to reproduce it reliably.
--
Margus Ramst
Personal e-mail: mar### [at] peakeduee
TAG (Team Assistance Group) e-mail: mar### [at] tagpovrayorg
Home page http://www.hot.ee/margusrt
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Sounds like Ick! Try putting pov in an isolation tank, and if the symptoms
don't go away, you may have to medicate...
http://www.planet-pets.com/subject4.htm
Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> Hi All:
>
> I was using POV-Ray, UniMegaPov and POVMan on my R.H. 6.2 Linux box
> without problem since yesterday... some days ago I updated the OS to
> R.H. 7.0, and all worked fine: all the renderers where working properly.
> Since then, I installed some other packages on the system without
> aparent problem, but, at some point, all my renders started to show
> hundreds of strange white spots everywhere on the output image, even
> with the text-only version of POV-Ray.
>
> I'm sure this is something about my system software. Perhaps I updated
> some librarie that introuced some bug... but I can't find it. I
> uninstaled or downgraded all the packages I recently installed, but with
> no result.
>
> This "strange white spots" mistery happened already to someone? Any
> help is appreciated: after all the effort I made to have my new AMD
> 1,2Ghz working properly, it's eally fustrating that now I can't render
> anything...
>
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On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:23:11 +0200, Jaime Vives Piqueres
<jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> wrote:
> I'm sure this is something about my system software. Perhaps I updated
>some librarie that introuced some bug... but I can't find it. I
>uninstaled or downgraded all the packages I recently installed, but with
>no result.
Is you glibc changed?
Did you compile pov with -ffash-math?
What level of optimization did you use when compiling?
Have you upgraded zlib or pnglib?
Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] vipbg
TAG e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg
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So, we know who keeps fish.
Ken Cecka wrote:
>
> Sounds like Ick! Try putting pov in an isolation tank, and if the symptoms
> don't go away, you may have to medicate...
>
> http://www.planet-pets.com/subject4.htm
>
> Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
>
> > Hi All:
> >
> > I was using POV-Ray, UniMegaPov and POVMan on my R.H. 6.2 Linux box
> > without problem since yesterday... some days ago I updated the OS to
> > R.H. 7.0, and all worked fine: all the renderers where working properly.
> > Since then, I installed some other packages on the system without
> > aparent problem, but, at some point, all my renders started to show
> > hundreds of strange white spots everywhere on the output image, even
> > with the text-only version of POV-Ray.
> >
> > I'm sure this is something about my system software. Perhaps I updated
> > some librarie that introuced some bug... but I can't find it. I
> > uninstaled or downgraded all the packages I recently installed, but with
> > no result.
> >
> > This "strange white spots" mistery happened already to someone? Any
> > help is appreciated: after all the effort I made to have my new AMD
> > 1,2Ghz working properly, it's eally fustrating that now I can't render
> > anything...
> >
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Warp:
> Are you outputting to PNG? Did you change (ie. update) your png and/or >libz
libraries? If so you should try to compile povray against the new
No, it's not the just the output file, it happens with all the
formats, and even on the display window. It is random, too. Sometimes
the render crashes, but never at same point. Also, the white spots are
randomly placed, although they seem to have something to do with
reflection
calculations (they do not appear if the scene has no reflective
finishes).
And yes, I've compiled it, with many different flags, but obtained no
result. I even found on the net some aditional flags to optimize
binaries for the Athlon, which resulted in a faster rendering, but with
the white spots still there...
The only difference now with my last working system, is the
motherboard: all the rest of hard/soft is the same. Perhaps it's some
bug on the bios, or on the m.b. itself, but the fact is that now windows
works fine on the same machine! I'm really fustrated. I'm thinking now
it could be a processor issue, and perhaps I must compile pov with a
more updated compiler (the flags for athlon I found where different for
different compiler versions). I will try the most recent GCC, and also
AthlonGCC, wich seems specifically done for Athlon processors. I will
let you know if it helps...
Well, 2 months witouth tracing is really many time... I hope I will
resist the temptation of migrating to windows again... :(
--
Jaime Vives Piqueres
La Persistencia de la Ignorancia
http://www.ignorancia.org/
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Peter Popov wrote:
> Is you glibc changed?
> Did you compile pov with -ffash-math?
> What level of optimization did you use when compiling?
> Have you upgraded zlib or pnglib?
No, that all does not matter now, I've downgraded again to RH6.2, so
now the libraries are the same. I even restored all the hardware, except
the m.b., and it does nothing... With the old m.b., renders crashed more
often, but never showed white dots. Now, they crash rarely, but always
have the sopts on all reflective surfaces, and the crahses are silent.
Just now, while trying many different scenes, one showed an error
message
when crashing at the first pixel:
>Rendering error.
>internal failure in function solve_sq_hit1: 0, nan, nan
hmmmm.... Has anyone any idea of which situations can lead to this
error?
--
Jaime Vives Piqueres
La Persistencia de la Ignorancia
http://www.ignorancia.org/
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Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
>
> Warp:
> > Are you outputting to PNG? Did you change (ie. update) your png and/or >libz
libraries? If so you should try to compile povray against the new
>
> No, it's not the just the output file, it happens with all the
> formats, and even on the display window. It is random, too. Sometimes
> the render crashes, but never at same point. Also, the white spots are
> randomly placed, although they seem to have something to do with
> reflection
> calculations (they do not appear if the scene has no reflective
> finishes).
HAve you verified that the images display the same way within a secondary
image viewing program after rendering the image? Perhaps it has something
to do with the internal POV-Ray display rotines and a compatibility problem
with your video card.
--
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
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Jaime Vives Piqueres <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> wrote:
: With the old m.b., renders crashed more
: often, but never showed white dots.
Do you experience crashes with other programs as well? It might be
some problem with broken memory or similar.
--
#macro N(D,I)#if(I<6)cylinder{M()#local D[I]=div(D[I],104);M().5,2pigment{
rgb M()}}N(D,(D[I]>99?I:I+1))#end#end#macro M()<mod(D[I],13)-6,mod(div(D[I
],13),8)-3,10>#end blob{N(array[6]{11117333955,
7382340,3358,3900569407,970,4254934330},0)}// - Warp -
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Ken escribió:
> HAve you verified that the images display the same way within a secondary
> image viewing program after rendering the image? Perhaps it has something
> to do with the internal POV-Ray display rotines and a compatibility problem
> with your video card.
Yes, the images do *have* the white spots. At it is not a video card
issue: I replaced the S3 (yes, I tough at first that was the cause!),
with a matrox well tested on other machines, and the problem persists...
it's one of the most strange errors I've never seen...
> --
> Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
> http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
--
Jaime Vives Piqueres
La Persistencia de la Ignorancia
http://www.ignorancia.org/
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On Sat, 30 Jun 2001 21:04:30 +0200, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
>Ken escribió:
>> HAve you verified that the images display the same way within a secondary
>> image viewing program after rendering the image? Perhaps it has something
>> to do with the internal POV-Ray display rotines and a compatibility problem
>> with your video card.
>
> Yes, the images do *have* the white spots. At it is not a video card
>issue: I replaced the S3 (yes, I tough at first that was the cause!),
>with a matrox well tested on other machines, and the problem persists...
>it's one of the most strange errors I've never seen...
When you view these images through a windows image viewer do the white spots
still appear.
--
Cheers
Steve email mailto:ste### [at] zeroppsuklinuxnet
%HAV-A-NICEDAY Error not enough coffee 0 pps.
web http://www.zeropps.uklinux.net/
or http://start.at/zero-pps
9:28pm up 148 days, 22:20, 2 users, load average: 1.04, 1.12, 1.07
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On 30 Jun 2001 11:32:56 -0400, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> Do you experience crashes with other programs as well? It might be
>some problem with broken memory or similar.
Or the coprocessor.
Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] vipbg
TAG e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg
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Warp wrote:
> Do you experience crashes with other programs as well? It might be
> some problem with broken memory or similar.
No, pov and all "pov-based" raytracers are the only. But I don't use
the machine for much more... I tried some fractal generators and other
complex software, but all of them work correctly. And it is not the
memory, it's the
first thing I replaced.
Steve wrote:
> When you view these images through a windows image viewer do the white spots
> still appear.
He he.. :) I've tested even that! The images *DO* have the spots. The
spots are really "badly caltulated" rays, IMHO, bcos if I use
antialiasing, they get antialiased!!! I don't know where to look now...
just upgraded RH6.2 with all the latest relevant packages (including
latest kernel for i686 and glibc), and it is still here. The next step
is to upgrade gcc to a version handling athlon specifics, and recompile
pov (and perhaps also glibc) only to see if it is something about the
cpu or...
Peter Popov wrote:
> Or the coprocessor.
Yes! I think it is something to do with the copro. After reading
thousands of technical reports and messages that I barely understand, I
think there are some differences on how P-III and Athlon manage FPU
exceptions. So perhaps compiling pov specifically for the athlon can be
the solution (i'm supposing that my coprocessor is not damaged, bcos the
same pov code works on windows). I will keep you informed (I'm planning
to create a page on my site with my "athlon experience").
Thanks to all for the suggestions!
--
Jaime Vives Piqueres
La Persistencia de la Ignorancia
http://www.ignorancia.org/
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I wrote:
> > Or the coprocessor.
>
> Yes! I think it is something to do with the copro. After reading
> thousands of technical reports and messages that I barely understand, I
> think there are some differences on how P-III and Athlon manage FPU
> exceptions. So perhaps compiling pov specifically for the athlon can be
> the solution ...
Some news:
As I said, I upgraded GCC to 3.0, and compiled pov with the default
makefile: slighty better performance(not more than a 5%), the ick was
still there. Then, I compiled with the flags for athlon (they are posetd
on the net on many sites): the ick was still on the renders, but
preformance improved greatly, almost a 15% on the test scene. I've not
done any other tests, but that scene is not simple (it is "oldroom.jpg"
from my gallery). That seems to
confirm the recent tests done by Steve.
The only things I found that greatly mitigates the ick effect, is
removing all optimizations when compiling. That reduces the spots at
least in a 90%, and the only remaining spots are not so bright, more
close to the actual color for the pixel. With antializasing, it almost
desapears, but is still visible if you compare the image with a "clean"
render. Curiously, using optimization but adding the flag
-fno-fancy-math-387
leads to the same results... gives this any trail to find the cause? Any
pointers of where to look at?
I'm starting to think on hardware damaged... I think the coprocessor
is
really buggy, perhaps bcos I'had the CPU running with a poor heatsink
during some weeks (altough temp never reached more than 70 Celsius, and
it is supposed to die at 90). the only thing that makes me doubt it, is
the fact that pov is the only application that shows problems.
Also, FYI, I noticed that this error happens also on windows (I was
wrong), but is much less noticeable...
--
Jaime Vives Piqueres
La Persistencia de la Ignorancia
http://www.ignorancia.org/
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If you can, try with another computer which is as identical as yours as
possible (at least with the same Linux version and an Athlon processor).
If it renders ok, then it's a very clear sign of some kind of hardware
failure (there can be a very remote possibility that you have some corrupted
software, eg a driver or similar, but I think it's very improbable).
--
#macro N(D,I)#if(I<6)cylinder{M()#local D[I]=div(D[I],104);M().5,2pigment{
rgb M()}}N(D,(D[I]>99?I:I+1))#end#end#macro M()<mod(D[I],13)-6,mod(div(D[I
],13),8)-3,10>#end blob{N(array[6]{11117333955,
7382340,3358,3900569407,970,4254934330},0)}// - Warp -
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Warp escribió:
>
> If you can, try with another computer which is as identical as yours as
> possible (at least with the same Linux version and an Athlon processor).
> If it renders ok, then it's a very clear sign of some kind of hardware
> failure (there can be a very remote possibility that you have some corrupted
> software, eg a driver or similar, but I think it's very improbable).
Well, I've done this finally, but following the hard way... in some
days the CPU finally died, and now that I've it replaced in warranty, I
can confirm the "Ick" was caused by a "fried" processor (AMD eurotechies
said it was strange, but possible). The new one renders perfectly, and
the render times are the expected for such a system (looking at
povbench).
Thanks to all for the suggestions and ideas... bye!
--
Jaime Vives Piqueres
La Persistencia de la Ignorancia
http://www.ignorancia.org/
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