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Hello. I know a guy with Mandrake Linux (latest version), and he is always
laughing at me for having bought Red Linux 5.2 and never installing it. I
just haven't had time, and, up until recently, not enough hard drive space,
and now, well, it's outdated. I'm thinking of connecting my 6GB hard drive
with one of those Y cables to have my 13GB HD, 6GB HD and 24x CD-ROM all at
the same time. The 6GB would, of course, go to Mandrake. Has anyone here
ever installed Linux like this (separate HD)? I need all the help I can get.
I am really, really meticulous and careful when I do anything to my
computer. I need all the information in plain english. Please give me any
suggestions you can. I would like to get things going just as good as I have
them in Windows 98: a simple, easy to follow GUI, POV-Ray, games, Internet,
speadsheets, e-mail, the works. Thanks in advance to everyone. =)
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TonyB wrote:
>
> Hello. I know a guy with Mandrake Linux (latest version), and he is always
> laughing at me for having bought Red Linux 5.2 and never installing it. I
> just haven't had time, and, up until recently, not enough hard drive space,
> and now, well, it's outdated. I'm thinking of connecting my 6GB hard drive
> with one of those Y cables to have my 13GB HD, 6GB HD and 24x CD-ROM all at
> the same time. The 6GB would, of course, go to Mandrake. Has anyone here
> ever installed Linux like this (separate HD)? I need all the help I can get.
> I am really, really meticulous and careful when I do anything to my
> computer. I need all the information in plain english. Please give me any
> suggestions you can. I would like to get things going just as good as I have
> them in Windows 98: a simple, easy to follow GUI, POV-Ray, games, Internet,
> speadsheets, e-mail, the works. Thanks in advance to everyone. =)
Hi Anthony!
It's especially easy to install Linux on a computer when you have a
seperate HD at hand. 6GB are still a lot (I only have 1GB for Linux and
WIN95 + my zip disks). The first thing you is to create a linux boot
disk for your computer or if you have a bootable CD-ROM boot linux from
the CD. Then you prepare several partitions (SuSE has a GUI for it) for
LINUX on the HD, which should be documented in the docs of the
distribution and format the HD. This is the trickiest part. After that
the software you wish to install is selected and played onto the
partitions. Then you or a installation GUI create a user and voila, you
are into Linux. After that Xwindows needs to be configured (the second
big step for newbies).
If you can get help from a friend who has done this before ask his.
Otherwise read the manual carefully. I know many people dislike SuSE but
at least their manual (in german) has allways been good.
This is a rough outline of the work to do.
You can configure the computer in a way that if you say nothing WIN98
will be booted and Linux only when you wish to boot it. Very helpful
when you have a wife like mine :-)
I don't know Mandrake but heard nothing bad about it!
All the Best and don't bother to ask further questions,
Marc
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>It's especially easy to install Linux on a computer when you have a
>seperate HD at hand.
Great... even if it will be the slave HD?
>Then you prepare several partitions (SuSE has a GUI for it) for
>LINUX on the HD, which should be documented in the docs of the
>distribution and format the HD.
OK, so why do I need several partitions, and how many shall I need?
>After that Xwindows needs to be configured (the second
>big step for newbies).
Could you elaborate more on this? I've also heard of Gnome and KDE. Are
these better than XWindows?
>If you can get help from a friend who has done this before ask his.
I have the e-mail of some guy who lives in Panama and that has used Linux
since his days in college in the 60s (he must be old...), but I don't feel
like having a complete stranger come over.
>Otherwise read the manual carefully. I know many people dislike SuSE but
>at least their manual (in german) has allways been good.
My aquaintance (with Mandrake) used SuSE before.
>This is a rough outline of the work to do.
>You can configure the computer in a way that if you say nothing WIN98
>will be booted and Linux only when you wish to boot it. Very helpful
>when you have a wife like mine :-)
=) I've read something about that. Isn't that LILO? Can I also use the Boot
Manager from Partition Magic?
>I don't know Mandrake but heard nothing bad about it!
I hear it is basically a derivative of the RedHat distribution.
>All the Best and don't *bother* to ask further questions,
But I need to ask more... :( I know so little...
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>I have the e-mail of some guy who lives in Panama and that has used Linux
>since his days in college in the 60s (he must be old...), but I don't feel
>like having a complete stranger come over.
Sorry. That would be UNIX, not LINUX...
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TonyB wrote:
>
> Great... even if it will be the slave HD?
Linux needs to boot from one of your first two IDE drives if you're
using IDE (I don't think this requirement holds for SCSI). It also has
to be on a partition in the first Iforgethowmany cylinders.
> >Then you prepare several partitions (SuSE has a GUI for it) for
> >LINUX on the HD, which should be documented in the docs of the
> >distribution and format the HD.
>
> OK, so why do I need several partitions, and how many shall I need?
You really only need two: root and swap. You should have a swap
partition (unless you have gobs of memory), and Linux prefers (very
strongly) a partition dedicated to that purpose.
> Could you elaborate more on this? I've also heard of Gnome and KDE. Are
> these better than XWindows?
X provides a very low-level GUI and doesn't include all the fancy bells
and whistles you're used to from a GUI (right-click menus, task bar,
drag & drop between windows, that sorta stuff), though it does provide
the low-level support for such things. They end up being provided by
other software packages that runs on top of X. Gnome and KDE combine
aspects of a GUI API and a higher-level GUI with which applications can
interact, and each provides some such applications. Then you also have
a window manager, something like fvwm, Enlightenment, AfterStep, etc.
that provides more of the look and feel as well as the widgets in your
window frames. It's all very modular, highly customizable, and still in
development. :-P
> =) I've read something about that. Isn't that LILO? Can I also use the Boot
> Manager from Partition Magic?
>
> >I don't know Mandrake but heard nothing bad about it!
LILO should be an option (not sure how well it gets along with Win98).
I don't know about Partition Magic.
> I hear it is basically a derivative of the RedHat distribution.
There's a religious war between KDE and Gnome, and Red Hat sided with
Gnome, largely for ideological reasons. Some people preferred KDE
(which is more mature than Gnome) and built a KDE-oriented distribution
around Red Hat (something like what Red Hat would be like had they
chosen KDE instead of Gnome). That's how I understand Mandrake,
anyways.
> But I need to ask more... :( I know so little...
Ask away.
-Mark Gordon
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>Linux needs to boot from one of your first two IDE drives if you're
>using IDE (I don't think this requirement holds for SCSI). It also has
>to be on a partition in the first Iforgethowmany cylinders.
Excellent. Then I shouldn't have any problems. I just need to get one of
those IDE Y-cables.
>You really only need two: root and swap. You should have a swap
>partition (unless you have gobs of memory), and Linux prefers (very
>strongly) a partition dedicated to that purpose.
OK, so for POV, and all my other future Linuxing needs I only require two?
That should be easy enough. BTW, I have 128MB of memory, is that enough?
(OK, stupid question, I know... POV can eat that up very fast...)
>It's all very modular, highly customizable, and still in
>development. :-P
A little too modular. :| Let me review this: X Windows is the base, upon
which I add KDE, which gives me more interactivity between the GUI and my
mouse, and then fvwm/Elightenment/AfterStep (which is best?) add the
Minimize, Maximize and Kill to the window edge? Sounds complicated... :/
>LILO should be an option (not sure how well it gets along with Win98).
>I don't know about Partition Magic.
Not PM, but the Boot Manager from it. I think it and Windows coexist
happily. I've tried it before (with '95).
>There's a religious war between KDE and Gnome, and Red Hat sided with
>Gnome, largely for ideological reasons.
Odd. Such as?
>Some people preferred KDE
>(which is more mature than Gnome) and built a KDE-oriented distribution
>around Red Hat (something like what Red Hat would be like had they
>chosen KDE instead of Gnome). That's how I understand Mandrake,
>anyways.
Ooohhh... then yay, Mandrake! ^_^ (Right?)
>Ask away.
Thanks. =)
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TonyB wrote:
> >You really only need two: root and swap. You should have a swap
> >partition (unless you have gobs of memory), and Linux prefers (very
> >strongly) a partition dedicated to that purpose.
>
> OK, so for POV, and all my other future Linuxing needs I only require two?
> That should be easy enough. BTW, I have 128MB of memory, is that enough?
> (OK, stupid question, I know... POV can eat that up very fast...)
Although some installations mention having a separate partition for /home
I guess part of that is so that you can completely blow away the Linux system
and re-install while preserving any user data you have.
Also, if your computer's BIOS handles it, you might be able to boot and
install straight from the CD.
> >It's all very modular, highly customizable, and still in
> >development. :-P
>
> A little too modular. :| Let me review this: X Windows is the base, upon
> which I add KDE, which gives me more interactivity between the GUI and my
> mouse, and then fvwm/Elightenment/AfterStep (which is best?) add the
> Minimize, Maximize and Kill to the window edge? Sounds complicated... :/
1) Linux gives you the core OS.
2) X-Windows gives you a graphical display.
3) A window manager running on top of that gives you frames for the windows,
helps them move, etc.
(I'd suggest using Enlightenment, with maybe Window Maker if you reaaaaaaly
don't like Enlightenment)
4) On top of X and the window manager runs your desktop environment, if you
so choose to have one. This is usually either KDE (booo hiss) or GNOME.
> >LILO should be an option (not sure how well it gets along with Win98).
> >I don't know about Partition Magic.
>
> Not PM, but the Boot Manager from it. I think it and Windows coexist
> happily. I've tried it before (with '95).
From what I read a little, sticking with LILO is the better thing to do. I
scanned the newsgroups this last spring when I bought Partition Magic and
first installed Linux at home.
> >There's a religious war between KDE and Gnome, and Red Hat sided with
> >Gnome, largely for ideological reasons.
>
> Odd. Such as?
Well, KDE is built on top of the Qt widget library which was not really open
until recently. Details can be drudged up if needed, but part of the gripe
extends to the current stuff, where only the Linux version of their (Troll
tech) stuff is free, but it costs $$ for other platforms (MS Windows, etc.)
Gnome is built on top of GTK+, which is completely open source and free (as
in free speach). It also is being ported to Win32 and BeOS as we speak.
> >Some people preferred KDE
> >(which is more mature than Gnome) and built a KDE-oriented distribution
> >around Red Hat (something like what Red Hat would be like had they
> >chosen KDE instead of Gnome). That's how I understand Mandrake,
> >anyways.
>
> Ooohhh... then yay, Mandrake! ^_^ (Right?)
Also, as of the later versions of Red Hat, KDE has been present as an option.
BTW, if forgot to mention. I'd strongly suggest going with Red Hat 6.0 over
5.2. Among other things, there is the change from the 2.0.x kernel to the
2.2.x series. If you want, you can get the free version from places like
CheapBytes for $1.99 + S/H for a bootable install CD. (that's all I ever use)
--
"My new computer's got the clocks, it rocks
But it was obsolete before I opened the box" - W.A.Y.
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Mark Gordon wrote:
>
> Linux needs to boot from one of your first two IDE drives if you're
> using IDE (I don't think this requirement holds for SCSI). It also has
> to be on a partition in the first Iforgethowmany cylinders.
>
The first 1024 ! :-)
That the reason why at least three partitions are a good idea. You can
but a very small / - partition into the first 1024 cylinders and then
use a /usr and a /home partition. But that very much into the detail.
The manuals are more precise then I could be.
Marc
--
Marc Schimmler
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Hi Tony,
just a few comments, first, the things already said are my opinion. But
one thing to note, don't try to switch between Windows and Linux via
BIOS. I did that with my SCSI-system, and it's plain pain. That's
because linux and windows identify the drives differently. So don't
change the order of drives by bios.
I use lilo at home with no problems, at the office we use loadlin. It's
just plain cool to have a little penguin icon on your desktop to boot
linux :-)
Just a last comment on partitions. A lot of things tend to go on the
/opt-tree. Thats more or less religion, some folks like /usr/local for
extra stuff, I like /opt. Some distributions use /opt/kde and /opt/gnome
by default (SuSE does) for KDE and GNOME. These get large! I tend to
like the opt-thing because both KDE and GNOME are rapidly evolving, so
cleaning up the tree is easier in /opt/gnome than stripping all gnome
and kde and docbook and ... stuff.
Axel
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On Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:46:35 -0700, Jon A. Cruz wrote:
>> >LILO should be an option (not sure how well it gets along with Win98).
>> >I don't know about Partition Magic.
>>
>> Not PM, but the Boot Manager from it. I think it and Windows coexist
>> happily. I've tried it before (with '95).
>
>From what I read a little, sticking with LILO is the better thing to do. I
>scanned the newsgroups this last spring when I bought Partition Magic and
>first installed Linux at home.
Caldera OpenLinux 2.2 (and the new 2.3, I suspect) have a Windows-based
install program that will help you with the partitioning and other stuff
you need to do to install Linux. In addition, it comes with a free "lite"
version of Partition Magic and of Boot Magic. Boot Magic works fine for
Linux.
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>Although some installations mention having a separate partition for /home
>I guess part of that is so that you can completely blow away the Linux
system
>and re-install while preserving any user data you have.
That sounds good. Mr. Hecht recommends /opt as well. Do you?
>1) Linux gives you the core OS.
>
>2) X-Windows gives you a graphical display.
>
>3) A window manager running on top of that gives you frames for the
windows,
>helps them move, etc.
>(I'd suggest using Enlightenment, with maybe Window Maker if you reaaaaaaly
>don't like Enlightenment)
>
>4) On top of X and the window manager runs your desktop environment, if you
>so choose to have one. This is usually either KDE (booo hiss) or GNOME.
So KDE is bad even though it is more 'mature' than GNOME?
>From what I read a little, sticking with LILO is the better thing to do. I
>scanned the newsgroups this last spring when I bought Partition Magic and
>first installed Linux at home.
So, you use Boot Magic, but you recommend LILO?
>Also, as of the later versions of Red Hat, KDE has been present as an
option.
That's nice.
>BTW, if forgot to mention. I'd strongly suggest going with Red Hat 6.0 over
>5.2. Among other things, there is the change from the 2.0.x kernel to the
>2.2.x series. If you want, you can get the free version from places like
>CheapBytes for $1.99 + S/H for a bootable install CD. (that's all I ever
use)
The guy I can get Mandrake from bought it via CheapBytes. Unfortunately I
can't get any money out of dad, so that's not an option for me. The time I
bought 5.2 was 'cause I was in Miami (Junior Orange Bowl) playing chess and
I had some spending cash on me.
OK. Another question I have is which distribution to go with. I can get
Mandrake. I have RedHat 5.2. Mr. Parker recommends Caldera. Should I just
install the one I can get my hands on the quickest?
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On Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:42:37 -0400, TonyB wrote:
>OK. Another question I have is which distribution to go with. I can get
>Mandrake. I have RedHat 5.2. Mr. Parker recommends Caldera. Should I just
>install the one I can get my hands on the quickest?
I didn't recommend it necessarily, just mentioned that it uses Boot Magic
as installed. I use it at home, but I'll be upgrading to Debian 2.1 just
as soon as I can burn the images onto CDs.
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What's your opinion on SuSE?
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On Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:55:38 -0400, TonyB wrote:
>What's your opinion on SuSE?
I have a copy I got for free at Comdex. I haven't installed it, so I have
no opinion on it.
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On Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:55:38 -0400, "TonyB" <ben### [at] panama phoenixnet> wrote:
>What's your opinion on SuSE?
>
I have just loaded SuSE 6.2 on my 2nd machine (P120 48Mb) and it seems pretty good. I
haven't tried POVRay yet - it wasn't meant for Raytracing, but as a machine just to
try
out Linux.
I am quite impressed with KDE and the idea that you have several different window
managers. At the moment I only have an old monitor hooked up to it and this is rather
flaky, but my intention is to get a larger monitor for my main machine and pass the
current monitor down the line.
I have a lot to learn about Unix before I can be confident about programming with it,
and
the problem is finding the time. These pesky newsgroups take so much time - just
reading
things, never mind answering some and also trying to do a bit of ray tracing :-)
David
------------
dav### [at] cwcomnet
http://www.hamiltonite.mcmail.com
------------
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TonyB wrote:
> >4) On top of X and the window manager runs your desktop environment, if you
> >so choose to have one. This is usually either KDE (booo hiss) or GNOME.
>
> So KDE is bad even though it is more 'mature' than GNOME?
Yes. And MS Windows is bad even though it is more 'mature' than Linux. ;-)
> >From what I read a little, sticking with LILO is the better thing to do. I
> >scanned the newsgroups this last spring when I bought Partition Magic and
> >first installed Linux at home.
>
> So, you use Boot Magic, but you recommend LILO?
No. I bought PartitionMagic, but from the little reading I did, decided to go
with LILO over Boot Magic. The gist of things may have been that PartitionMagic
was nicer graphically, but that LILO just was more robust and worked better.
> >BTW, if forgot to mention. I'd strongly suggest going with Red Hat 6.0 over
> >5.2. Among other things, there is the change from the 2.0.x kernel to the
> >2.2.x series. If you want, you can get the free version from places like
> >CheapBytes for $1.99 + S/H for a bootable install CD. (that's all I ever
> use)
>
> The guy I can get Mandrake from bought it via CheapBytes. Unfortunately I
> can't get any money out of dad, so that's not an option for me. The time I
> bought 5.2 was 'cause I was in Miami (Junior Orange Bowl) playing chess and
> I had some spending cash on me.
>
> OK. Another question I have is which distribution to go with. I can get
> Mandrake. I have RedHat 5.2. Mr. Parker recommends Caldera. Should I just
> install the one I can get my hands on the quickest?
Well, one thing I'd go by is try to get one that has 2.2.x kernel. Or skip
lunch a few days and buy the CheapBytes RedHat 6.0
--
"My new computer's got the clocks, it rocks
But it was obsolete before I opened the box" - W.A.Y.
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>Yes. And MS Windows is bad even though it is more 'mature' than Linux.
;-)
It IS?
>No. I bought PartitionMagic, but from the little reading I did, decided to
go
>with LILO over Boot Magic. The gist of things may have been that
PartitionMagic
>was nicer graphically, but that LILO just was more robust and worked
better.
I need something that is simple to explain. My parents are both well into
their 50s and need the easiest, most painfully obvious explanations when it
comes to using the computer. Example 1: push the big button to turn it on;
wait until the little light stops flashing (all is loaded), and then double
click on the "Outlook Express" icon; wait, and the e-mail will be there.
Example 2: if the machine is making noise (fan), then it is on.
>Well, one thing I'd go by is try to get one that has 2.2.x kernel. Or skip
>lunch a few days and buy the CheapBytes RedHat 6.0
Do you think dad gives me lunch money? No, no. He gives me juice in a
carton, and expects me to eat at home upon my return from school. (I'm used
to it, so it's cool, but I just wanted to make the point about how that
won't increase my wealth one bit.) Besides, a friend has convinced me to go
with SuSE 6.2. He hails it as THE distribution of Linux, and he's got me
hooked. I'll be installing it with his help within the next couple of weeks.
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TonyB wrote:
>
> >No. I bought PartitionMagic, but from the little reading I did, decided to
> go
> >with LILO over Boot Magic. The gist of things may have been that
> PartitionMagic
> >was nicer graphically, but that LILO just was more robust and worked
> better.
>
> I need something that is simple to explain. My parents are both well into
> their 50s and need the easiest, most painfully obvious explanations when it
> comes to using the computer. Example 1: push the big button to turn it on;
> wait until the little light stops flashing (all is loaded), and then double
> click on the "Outlook Express" icon; wait, and the e-mail will be there.
> Example 2: if the machine is making noise (fan), then it is on.
>
I've been using LILO form the beginning and it never failed for me. You
can configure it in a way, that it boot WIN98 for your parents without
any input by them, LINUX if you type the command for it. It's easy and
doesn't interfere with their use. And knowin LINUX/UN*X is a clear
advantage for your possible later studies.
Marc
--
Marc Schimmler
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>I've been using LILO form the beginning and it never failed for me. You
>can configure it in a way, that it boot WIN98 for your parents without
>any input by them, LINUX if you type the command for it. It's easy and
>doesn't interfere with their use. And knowin LINUX/UN*X is a clear
>advantage for your possible later studies.
Really? Interesting. I didn't know it would help my schooling. Actually, I
want to get into it to avoid piracy as much as possible, and also because it
is growning in popularity and is more stable than Windows (right?).
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TonyB wrote:
>
> >I've been using LILO form the beginning and it never failed for me. You
> >can configure it in a way, that it boot WIN98 for your parents without
> >any input by them, LINUX if you type the command for it. It's easy and
> >doesn't interfere with their use. And knowin LINUX/UN*X is a clear
> >advantage for your possible later studies.
>
> Really? Interesting. I didn't know it would help my schooling. Actually, I
> want to get into it to avoid piracy as much as possible, and also because it
> is growning in popularity and is more stable than Windows (right?).
It's a good platform for programming. I think SuSE 6.2 is sipped with 6
CD's full with mostly free software and a few demos. It's fine for
networking and network security. One of the best (if not the best)
servers for windows is samba. One of the best web servers is apache. You
can use your computer to learn skills about networking and programming.
A lot of electronic books comes with it and the whole internet is a
resource for new code and information. This is also true for windows
users but for the linux community it's a kind pillar they rest on. Linux
*is* stable. And the best thing about it ... it's free. If somethings
really bugs you and if you know how to program it is possible to correct
it. And one really nice thing about linux is that your computer won't
get that fast old than it does under windows. I still use my Pentium 90
with 48 MB RAM and I can still develop and run programs with an
acceptable speed.
And if I need to use WIN95 (yes that happens ... at least for sPatch),
well I reboot my machine and run it under WIN95.
Enough of shameless propaganda, just try it yourself!
Marc
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Just a note of caution on using Partition Magic. My old machine had W95 on 4
partitions
on a 2.2Gb disk and I wanted to put SuSE Linux on it so I bought PM 4.0
I put all my W95 stuff in two partions, removed the empty partitions using PM and
attempted to redistribute the disk memory over the two remaining partitions.
Result:- I now have no W95, bad, bad PM has been put back in its box and has to live
in
the dark under my table in disgrace and I have a happy SuSE Linux sitting in a single
2.2Gb partition :-)
So it's a dedicated Linux machine after all.
David
------------
dav### [at] cwcomnet
http://www.hamiltonite.mcmail.com
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