The only annoying thing I run into when using POV-ray is the inability to
preview my scenes.  I spend a seemingly endless amount of time rendering,
re-rendering, re-rendering,... just to get the camera and lighting position
I need.

OpenGL offers an easy to implement, raster scan technology that could be
(easily?) implemented in POV-Ray.  It would be ideal for generating previews
so the user could determine camera, lighting, etc and then do the final
render with the ray-tracer.  If I knew how to do C++, I'd do it myself but
since I don't, is there anyone out there who would like to add this
IMMENSELY useful feature to POV?

Please, please, please, .....

--
Jim

Check out my web site http://www.kressworks.com/
It'll blow your mind (politically), stimulate your senses (artistically)
and provide scientific insights beyond compare!

Be sure to read the Warp maintained POV VFAQ:
http://iki.fi/warp/povVFAQ.html

Post a reply to this message

In article <36d9d4f2.0@news.povray.org> , "Jim Kress" <jim### [at] dccmailcom>
wrote:

> OpenGL offers an easy to implement, raster scan technology that could be
> (easily?) implemented in POV-Ray.

Except on mainstream platforms OpenGL is available everywhere.
If you use a Win PC you can use Moray...


     Thorsten

Post a reply to this message

OpenGL is not a good choice, since it's not avaiable at all in DOS.
tried quickColour and such settings ??? I have a generral preveiw variable in my
scens, only to remove all more timeconsuming things(mirrors, fog, changing a
difference to a uinion(faster with text objects), or removing it totally and so
on.
If you want preview, my best tip is to get a modeller. :-)
And, I doubt it is so easy to implement a rastered engine to the pov-code,
remember that a scene always needs to be parsed before working, and what would
happen to the preview if I had som really nasty macros in the scene??? no, it
won't work on this level. And, I don't think there is a good OpenGl on any other
platform than windoze, perhaps X in unix, but I don't have that platform so I
don't know. 

Sorry, but you can really make one if you want. :-)
-- 
//Spider 
( spi### [at] bahnhofse ) [ http://www.bahnhof.se/~spider/ ]
#declare life = rand(seed(42))*sqrt(-1);

Post a reply to this message

Does Moray import POV height fields (like from Leveler) and POV inc files?
Last time I looked, I didn't see that it could.  I need this capability to
make it worth while.

Also, Moray is expensive ...

--
Jim

Check out my web site http://www.kressworks.com/
It'll blow your mind (politically), stimulate your senses (artistically)
and provide scientific insights beyond compare!

Be sure to read the Warp maintained POV VFAQ:
http://iki.fi/warp/povVFAQ.html




Thorsten Froehlich wrote in message <36d9d81c.0@news.povray.org>...
>In article <36d9d4f2.0@news.povray.org> , "Jim Kress"
<jim### [at] dccmailcom>
>wrote:
>
>> OpenGL offers an easy to implement, raster scan technology that could be
>> (easily?) implemented in POV-Ray.
>
>Except on mainstream platforms OpenGL is available everywhere.
>If you use a Win PC you can use Moray...
>
>
>     Thorsten

Post a reply to this message

From: http://www.opengl.org/Products/Products.html

"OpenGL is the most widely used API on UNIX and Win9x/NT systems for
professional & consumer graphics applications. With the licensing of OpenGL
by Apple, it is also making rapid headway into Mac OS applications. "

It started life in the Unix world and then migrated elsewhere.

--
Jim

Check out my web site http://www.kressworks.com/
It'll blow your mind (politically), stimulate your senses (artistically)
and provide scientific insights beyond compare!

Be sure to read the Warp maintained POV VFAQ:
http://iki.fi/warp/povVFAQ.html




Spider wrote in message <36D9D7E8.38BF972D@bahnhof.se>...
>OpenGL is not a good choice, since it's not avaiable at all in DOS.
>tried quickColour and such settings ??? I have a generral preveiw variable
in my
>scens, only to remove all more timeconsuming things(mirrors, fog, changing
a
>difference to a uinion(faster with text objects), or removing it totally
and so
>on.
>If you want preview, my best tip is to get a modeller. :-)
>And, I doubt it is so easy to implement a rastered engine to the pov-code,
>remember that a scene always needs to be parsed before working, and what
would
>happen to the preview if I had som really nasty macros in the scene??? no,
it
>won't work on this level. And, I don't think there is a good OpenGl on any
other
>platform than windoze, perhaps X in unix, but I don't have that platform so
I
>don't know.
>
>Sorry, but you can really make one if you want. :-)
>--
>//Spider
>( spi### [at] bahnhofse ) [ http://www.bahnhof.se/~spider/ ]
>#declare life = rand(seed(42))*sqrt(-1);

Post a reply to this message

Jim Kress wrote:
> 
> From: http://www.opengl.org/Products/Products.html
haven't read it.

> "OpenGL is the most widely used API on UNIX and Win9x/NT systems for
> professional & consumer graphics applications. With the licensing of OpenGL
> by Apple, it is also making rapid headway into Mac OS applications. "
there still is DOS, my fav. :-) 

> It started life in the Unix world and then migrated elsewhere.
ok, i started in DOS, and mainly feel at home there.

 

-- 
//Spider 
( spi### [at] bahnhofse ) [ http://www.bahnhof.se/~spider/ ]
#declare life = rand(seed(42))*sqrt(-1);

Post a reply to this message

Jim Kress wrote in message <36d9d984.0@news.povray.org>...
>Does Moray import POV height fields (like from Leveler) and POV inc files?
>Last time I looked, I didn't see that it could.  I need this capability to
>make it worth while.
>
>Also, Moray is expensive ...
>
>--
>Jim
Moray doesn't "import" h_f's rather it allows you to create one from an
image, as for Moray being expensive, look into all the other commercial
modellers out there.

Post a reply to this message

Personally, I think it would be more useful to add REYES scanline
rendering to POV.  Maybe call it POV-Scan. :)

I don't see that a real-time engine would be that useful WITHIN POV,
since that's more appropriate for a modeller...but a nice scanline
renderer would be great for previewing scenes.

It would probably require major additions to the code (In other words, a
pipe dream).

-Mike

Jim Kress wrote:
> 
> The only annoying thing I run into when using POV-ray is the inability to
> preview my scenes.  I spend a seemingly endless amount of time rendering,
> re-rendering, re-rendering,... just to get the camera and lighting position
> I need.
> 
> OpenGL offers an easy to implement, raster scan technology that could be
> (easily?) implemented in POV-Ray.  It would be ideal for generating previews
> so the user could determine camera, lighting, etc and then do the final
> render with the ray-tracer.  If I knew how to do C++, I'd do it myself but
> since I don't, is there anyone out there who would like to add this
> IMMENSELY useful feature to POV?
> 
> Please, please, please, .....
> 
> --
> Jim
> 
> Check out my web site http://www.kressworks.com/
> It'll blow your mind (politically), stimulate your senses (artistically)
> and provide scientific insights beyond compare!
> 
> Be sure to read the Warp maintained POV VFAQ:
> http://iki.fi/warp/povVFAQ.html

Post a reply to this message

ooohhh.. maybe I could do this for my Senior Thesis... thanks for the
idea, but if I do it, it won't be done until next year at earliest...

Steve


Jim Kress wrote:
> 
> The only annoying thing I run into when using POV-ray is the inability to
> preview my scenes.  I spend a seemingly endless amount of time rendering,
> re-rendering, re-rendering,... just to get the camera and lighting position
> I need.
> 
> OpenGL offers an easy to implement, raster scan technology that could be
> (easily?) implemented in POV-Ray.  It would be ideal for generating previews
> so the user could determine camera, lighting, etc and then do the final
> render with the ray-tracer.  If I knew how to do C++, I'd do it myself but
> since I don't, is there anyone out there who would like to add this
> IMMENSELY useful feature to POV?
> 
> Please, please, please, .....
> 
> --
> Jim
> 
> Check out my web site http://www.kressworks.com/
> It'll blow your mind (politically), stimulate your senses (artistically)
> and provide scientific insights beyond compare!
> 
> Be sure to read the Warp maintained POV VFAQ:
> http://iki.fi/warp/povVFAQ.html

Post a reply to this message

You seem to imply that it is not standard on Windows. Is that what you meant?
It's been around for quite awhile, and in WinNT since vary early, and in 95
since OSR/2.

Thorsten Froehlich wrote:

> In article <36d9d4f2.0@news.povray.org> , "Jim Kress" <jim### [at] dccmailcom>
> wrote:
>
> > OpenGL offers an easy to implement, raster scan technology that could be
> > (easily?) implemented in POV-Ray.
>
> Except on mainstream platforms OpenGL is available everywhere.
> If you use a Win PC you can use Moray...
>
>      Thorsten

Post a reply to this message

In article <36d9d81c.0@news.povray.org> , "Thorsten Froehlich" 
<fro### [at] charliecnsiitedu> wrote:

> Except on mainstream platforms OpenGL is available everywhere.
Sometimes what I write is not what I want to write :-(
This sentence should say (nearly) exactly the opposite:

Except on mainstream platforms OpenGL isn't available everywhere.
                                        ^^^

Sorry, for this stupid typo!


     Thorsten

Post a reply to this message

In article <36DA00C2.45AFA4A9@geocities.com> , "Jon A. Cruz" 
<jon### [at] geocitiescom> wrote:

> You seem to imply that it is not standard on Windows. Is that what you meant?

No, I made a stupid typo changing what I wanted to say completely, sorry! Of
course as you noticed what I wrote makes no sense at all! (See my other new
post.)


     Thorsten

Post a reply to this message

Jim Kress wrote:
> 
> The only annoying thing I run into when using POV-ray is the inability to
> preview my scenes.  I spend a seemingly endless amount of time rendering,
> re-rendering, re-rendering,... just to get the camera and lighting position
> I need.
> 
> OpenGL offers an easy to implement, raster scan technology that could be
> (easily?) implemented in POV-Ray.

What POV-Ray could use is an OpenGL-based modeler.  If it's external to
POV-Ray itself but capable of producing POV-Ray files (even, in the best
of all possible worlds, reading POV-Ray files), the platform-dependence
Thorsten mentions wouldn't be an issue.  None of the currently available
modelers are very portable, AFAIK.  But what you suggest is best
implemented in a modeler rather than the (existing) renderer.

Mark Gordon
mtg### [at] mailbagcom
http://www.mailbag.com/users/mtgordon/index.html

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS/S d-- s-:+> a- C++ UA+$ UH+$ UO+ $US+ $UL++++ P+++ L++(+++) E W++ N+
o-- 
K++ w---$ O- M V--$ PS++ PE- Y+ PGP->+ t+ 5++ X R+ tv-- b++ DI++ D+ G
e++>++++ 
h- r*%--- y--
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Post a reply to this message

Just to toss this in here for possible implementors:

Java3D could be one way to get a decent modeler going, and get some
cross-platform at the same time.
The current implementations use OpenGL on Solaris, and OpenGL on MS Windows, with
a DirectX version coming soon.

I'm in the middle of a couple other projects at the moment, so haven't taken this
up. However, once I get a simple distributed rendering system going, a simple
animator/modeller is close to next. After looking at the Java3D demo apps, it
seems to be at a good performance/abilities level for such applications.


Mark Gordon wrote:

> Jim Kress wrote:
> >
> > The only annoying thing I run into when using POV-ray is the inability to
> > preview my scenes.  I spend a seemingly endless amount of time rendering,
> > re-rendering, re-rendering,... just to get the camera and lighting position
> > I need.
> >
> > OpenGL offers an easy to implement, raster scan technology that could be
> > (easily?) implemented in POV-Ray.
>
> What POV-Ray could use is an OpenGL-based modeler.  If it's external to
> POV-Ray itself but capable of producing POV-Ray files (even, in the best
> of all possible worlds, reading POV-Ray files), the platform-dependence
> Thorsten mentions wouldn't be an issue.  None of the currently available
> modelers are very portable, AFAIK.  But what you suggest is best
> implemented in a modeler rather than the (existing) renderer.
>
> Mark Gordon
> mtg### [at] mailbagcom
> http://www.mailbag.com/users/mtgordon/index.html
>
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> GCS/S d-- s-:+> a- C++ UA+$ UH+$ UO+ $US+ $UL++++ P+++ L++(+++) E W++ N+
> o--
> K++ w---$ O- M V--$ PS++ PE- Y+ PGP->+ t+ 5++ X R+ tv-- b++ DI++ D+ G
> e++>++++
> h- r*%--- y--
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Post a reply to this message

"Jim Kress" <jim### [at] dccmailcom> wrote:

>OpenGL offers an easy to implement, raster scan technology that could be
>(easily?) implemented in POV-Ray.  It would be ideal for generating previews
>so the user could determine camera, lighting, etc and then do the final
>render with the ray-tracer.  If I knew how to do C++, I'd do it myself but
>since I don't, is there anyone out there who would like to add this
>IMMENSELY useful feature to POV?

Don't think we haven't thought of this. But it would be -very- difficult.

OpenGL is totally different to POV in that it only implements a few primitives,
and basically requires that any complex object be built up from polygons.

POV, on the other hand, supports an extensive set of primitives, plus other
advanced things such as CSG (performing CSG on polygon meshes is not trivial).

To make a OpenGL preview, we would have to write code for each and every
primitive that POV supports, that would convert an instance of that primitive
into a form suitable for use in OpenGL, plus, probably do the CSG as well
(unless we can factor it into the conversion process - thus leveraging the
existing CSG code in POV).

It's certainly high on my wish list for 4.0 but there's no telling if it will
ever happen.

However, if there's any good C/C++ programmers out there who want to volunteer
to add such support to the existing 3.1d codebase ...

Post a reply to this message

Jim Kress schrieb in Nachricht <36d9d4f2.0@news.povray.org>...
>The only annoying thing I run into when using POV-ray is the inability to
>preview my scenes.  I spend a seemingly endless amount of time rendering,
>re-rendering, re-rendering,... just to get the camera and lighting position
>I need.
>
>OpenGL offers an easy to implement, raster scan technology that could be
>(easily?) implemented in POV-Ray.  It would be ideal for generating
previews
>so the user could determine camera, lighting, etc and then do the final
>render with the ray-tracer.  If I knew how to do C++, I'd do it myself but
>since I don't, is there anyone out there who would like to add this
>IMMENSELY useful feature to POV?


Like others said, OpenGL is not available on all platforms and previews like
that should really be done in a modeller. An OpenGL modeller would be Breeze
or Calimax. Why don't you try those? Of course, they are Windows only, but
most modellers are platform specific anyway.

The only thing easier to implement would be a wireframe preview, but the you
could just as well use the existing POV-Ray preview modes. They are good
enough to preview placement and lighting. And they are fast enough.
--
Rudy Velthuis

Post a reply to this message

Platinum has just announced that the source code for their VRML renderer
COSMO  (based on OpenGL) is now public domain.  With a POV to VRML
translator/ interface (I remember seeing one mentioned in an earlier thread)
and the COSMO code there could be a mechanism to provide a viewing
capability by reusing existing code.

Too obtuse/ convoluted?

--
Jim

Check out my web site http://www.kressworks.com/
It'll blow your mind (politically), stimulate your senses (artistically)
and provide scientific insights beyond compare!

Be sure to read the Warp maintained POV VFAQ:
http://iki.fi/warp/povVFAQ.html




povray.org admin team wrote in message <36da5e64.2887390@news.povray.org>...
>"Jim Kress" <jim### [at] dccmailcom> wrote:
>
>>OpenGL offers an easy to implement, raster scan technology that could be
>>(easily?) implemented in POV-Ray.  It would be ideal for generating
previews
>>so the user could determine camera, lighting, etc and then do the final
>>render with the ray-tracer.  If I knew how to do C++, I'd do it myself but
>>since I don't, is there anyone out there who would like to add this
>>IMMENSELY useful feature to POV?
>
>Don't think we haven't thought of this. But it would be -very- difficult.
>
>OpenGL is totally different to POV in that it only implements a few
primitives,
>and basically requires that any complex object be built up from polygons.
>
>POV, on the other hand, supports an extensive set of primitives, plus other
>advanced things such as CSG (performing CSG on polygon meshes is not
trivial).
>
>To make a OpenGL preview, we would have to write code for each and every
>primitive that POV supports, that would convert an instance of that
primitive
>into a form suitable for use in OpenGL, plus, probably do the CSG as well
>(unless we can factor it into the conversion process - thus leveraging the
>existing CSG code in POV).
>
>It's certainly high on my wish list for 4.0 but there's no telling if it
will
>ever happen.
>
>However, if there's any good C/C++ programmers out there who want to
volunteer
>to add such support to the existing 3.1d codebase ...

Post a reply to this message

What about mosaic preview. Isn't that good enough? (+SPn +EPn switches)
Alberto.

Jim Kress wrote:

> The only annoying thing I run into when using POV-ray is the inability to
> preview my scenes.  I spend a seemingly endless amount of time rendering,
> re-rendering, re-rendering,... just to get the camera and lighting position
> I need.

Post a reply to this message

What I'm looking for is a previewer that will allow real time rotation,
translation, light positioning, camera positioning, etc. with real time
rendering of the scene while every change is being made.  Kind of like using
a VRML viewer.   It appears the known universe is satisfied with using the
existing modelers so if I want this, I'll have to do it myself ... :(

--
Jim

Check out my web site http://www.kressworks.com/
It'll blow your mind (politically), stimulate your senses (artistically)
and provide scientific insights beyond compare!

Be sure to read the Warp maintained POV VFAQ:
http://iki.fi/warp/povVFAQ.html




Alberto Mendoza wrote in message <36DB5876.45ED6670@usb.ve>...
>What about mosaic preview. Isn't that good enough? (+SPn +EPn switches)
>Alberto.
>
>Jim Kress wrote:
>
>> The only annoying thing I run into when using POV-ray is the inability to
>> preview my scenes.  I spend a seemingly endless amount of time rendering,
>> re-rendering, re-rendering,... just to get the camera and lighting
position
>> I need.
>

Post a reply to this message

> However, if there's any good C/C++ programmers out there who want to volunteer
> to add such support to the existing 3.1d codebase ...

Don't know if good, but I'am working on it.
It will use triangular meshes with infinite faces (infinite primitives
support). I want use it in my POV modeller but if you will like it ...

Post a reply to this message

Great!

If you need some help with testing, please let me know!

--
Jim

Check out my web site http://www.kressworks.com/
It'll blow your mind (politically), stimulate your senses (artistically)
and provide scientific insights beyond compare!

Be sure to read the Warp maintained POV VFAQ:
http://iki.fi/warp/povVFAQ.html




Disnel wrote in message <36DD1FD2.BC233D7E@linux.itam.cas.cz>...
>> However, if there's any good C/C++ programmers out there who want to
volunteer
>> to add such support to the existing 3.1d codebase ...
>
>Don't know if good, but I'am working on it.
>It will use triangular meshes with infinite faces (infinite primitives
>support). I want use it in my POV modeller but if you will like it ...

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:39:40 -0500, "Jim Kress" <jim### [at] dccmailcom>
wrote:

>Great!
>
>If you need some help with testing, please let me know!
>
Ditto (assuming a Windows OS)


Cheers,

Cliff Bowman
Why not pay my 3D Dr Who site a visit at
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/7855/
PS change ".duffnet" to ".net" if replying via e-mail

Post a reply to this message

Jim Kress wrote:
> 
> Great!
> 
> If you need some help with testing, please let me know!
> 

Sure, but it will take some time, I'am now very busy
in school, so main work will be done in holidays.
You can look at my homepage (http://linux.itam.cas.cz/homepages/disnel),
there are 3 screenshots from old version (without infinite faces).

Disnel

Post a reply to this message

Disnel <dis### [at] linuxitamcascz> wrote:

>It will use triangular meshes with infinite faces (infinite primitives
>support). I want use it in my POV modeller but if you will like it ...

Please keep me updated. If it's able to take a POV primitive definition and
turn it into a mesh in memory, I'd be very interested.

Post a reply to this message

> Please keep me updated. If it's able to take a POV primitive definition and
> turn it into a mesh in memory, I'd be very interested.

Sure, but as I told here before now I'am very occupied in school, so
main work will be in holidays....

Disnel

Post a reply to this message