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From: Patrick Elliott
Subject: Puting the ID in Stupid.
Date: 20 Mar 2008 23:20:09
Message: <MPG.224ce481a7d337a498a11c@news.povray.org>
Well, for people that shoot themselves in the foot, this one had to an 
RPG. PZ Myers, a fairly well known, but hardly world wide known, name in 
the so called debate between 1 AD theology and 2008 AD science, and who 
was interviewed, (or more like mugged), for the movie Expelled, has been 
expelled from the line for the movie in the Mall of America. He was 
there in the twin cities, with his family, and other atheists, to attend 
a convention *for* atheists. I will leave the punchline of who **did** 
get let in instead for those reading the post (Hint: This person **is** 
known world wide, and they also misused interview material from him in 
it).

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/expelled.php

Its nearly an hour since I started reading the comments on it, and I 
still feel like laughing my ass off.

-- 
void main () {

    if version = "Vista" {
      call slow_by_half();
      call DRM_everything();
    }
    call functional_code();
  }
  else
    call crash_windows();
}

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From: nemesis
Subject: Re: Puting the ID in Stupid.
Date: 21 Mar 2008 00:15:01
Message: <web.47e34435bd0847b4dba6f83d0@news.povray.org>
ouch!

This ID movement is lame, even though I believe there really is an Intelligent
Designer after all.


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From: andrel
Subject: Re: Puting the ID in Stupid.
Date: 21 Mar 2008 16:40:21
Message: <47E42B5F.6030409@hotmail.com>
Patrick Elliott wrote:
> Well, for people that shoot themselves in the foot, this one had to an 
> RPG. PZ Myers, a fairly well known, but hardly world wide known, name in 
> the so called debate between 1 AD theology and 2008 AD science, and who 
> was interviewed, (or more like mugged), for the movie Expelled, has been 
> expelled from the line for the movie in the Mall of America. He was 
> there in the twin cities, with his family, and other atheists, to attend 
> a convention *for* atheists. I will leave the punchline of who **did** 
> get let in instead for those reading the post (Hint: This person **is** 
> known world wide, and they also misused interview material from him in 
> it).
> 
> http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/expelled.php
> 
> Its nearly an hour since I started reading the comments on it, and I 
> still feel like laughing my ass off.
> 
Two things strike me in this story and the replies.
1) apparently it is possible in the land of the free to ban someone from 
attending a movie including a banning order for the building without the 
intervention of a judge.
2) that was hardly commented on (OK I didn't read all 1000+ replies so I 
might have missed it)


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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Puting the ID in Stupid.
Date: 21 Mar 2008 19:53:20
Message: <47e45880$1@news.povray.org>
andrel wrote:
> 1) apparently it is possible in the land of the free to ban someone from 
> attending a movie including a banning order for the building without the 
> intervention of a judge.

It was a free, invitation-only preview of the movie. You were invited as 
a guest if you signed up for it. They revoked the invitation.

It wasn't like being in line for a regular showing of a movie. It was 
like being kicked out of the oscars.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     "That's pretty. Where's that?"
          "It's the Age of Channelwood."
     "We should go there on vacation some time."


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From: Chambers
Subject: Re: Puting the ID in Stupid.
Date: 21 Mar 2008 21:24:03
Message: <47e46dc3$1@news.povray.org>
Darren New wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>> 1) apparently it is possible in the land of the free to ban someone 
>> from attending a movie including a banning order for the building 
>> without the intervention of a judge.
> 
> It was a free, invitation-only preview of the movie. You were invited as 
> a guest if you signed up for it. They revoked the invitation.

And the theatre owner can ban anyone they want for any reason they want. 
  The theatre isn't public; it's private property, and you're there at 
the owners' discretion.

-- 
...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com


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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Puting the ID in Stupid.
Date: 21 Mar 2008 22:16:45
Message: <47e47a1d$1@news.povray.org>
Chambers wrote:
> And the theatre owner can ban anyone they want for any reason they want. 

Not quite. There *are* a list of reasons why you can't ban someone. You 
can't kick someone out for being Catholic or having dark skin. But other 
reasons, sure.

Indeed, I bet you could make a case that you were kicked out for being 
atheist, and therefore that's religious discrimination.

I saw a report of a community refusing to allow lawyers to buy homes 
there because they file too many lawsuits.  A lawyer was refused, and he 
of course filed a lawsuit.  He lost, because "lawyer" isn't a protected 
category.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     "That's pretty. Where's that?"
          "It's the Age of Channelwood."
     "We should go there on vacation some time."


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From: Patrick Elliott
Subject: Re: Puting the ID in Stupid.
Date: 22 Mar 2008 00:18:33
Message: <MPG.224e4491e6a584e398a11d@news.povray.org>
Well, the point that people that understand the theory of evolution, 
instead of getting everything, including the name sometimes, wrong, is 
that nothing implies the "need" for a designer at this point. Sure, gaps 
exists, but most of them are in the minutiae, or involve stuff that 
evolution itself doesn't imply, state or talk about, like abiogenisis. 
And, even that just begs the question of, "What kind of designer 
couldn't just poof it all into existence, instead of setting up some 
basic life form, over which all evidence clearly suggests they would 
lose all ability to direct or control within the first hundred 
generations?

Such a designer would either have to be limited, non-omniscient, non-
omnipotent, etc., or something like the fragment of god that got hit by 
a satalite, in Futurama, and so good at it, that they set up every 
single tiny detail, all the while making it **absolutely** impossible to 
find any evidence that they where involved. And that just begs the 
question, "Why do that, then insist on making the species that resulted 
jump through stupid hoops of unfounded blind belief vs. testable 
disbelief, to get at whether or not you exist?" Its either a damn bad 
way to get followers and keep them, or something sadistic, like poking a 
small furry animal in a box with a stick, where all the animal knows is 
that something outside the box is stabbing them. Mind you, in this case, 
the designer can't even get that right, since the only evidence of 
outside interference is the human hubris that because "we" design 
things, something else had to design everything else, including the 
stuff that all evidence suggests designed "themselves", like rivers, 
canyons, mountains, etc. Its a silly argument really. "Gosh! Its true 
that the unbelievably complicated thing like the grand canyon kind of 
formed on its own, based on physical laws, but the eye.. Now that just 
***looks*** complex to me, never mind that, statistically, its fracking 
simplistic by comparison to the complex structure of one side canyon in 
the grand canyon!" Well, that would be the argument, if they where not 
completely blind to the fact that a side canyon "is" more complex than 
an eye, and doesn't just look like it too them because they don't 
understand it.

So.. Is there or isn't there? Who the heck knows. Do you need one for 
any of it to happen? Not as far as anyone can tell so far. Could that 
prove different later? Sure, but trying to compare that to ***any*** of 
the stupid definitions or descriptions these ID people, or creationists 
in general, think did it... is just absurd.

-- 
void main () {

    if version = "Vista" {
      call slow_by_half();
      call DRM_everything();
    }
    call functional_code();
  }
  else
    call crash_windows();
}

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From: Patrick Elliott
Subject: Re: Puting the ID in Stupid.
Date: 22 Mar 2008 00:33:54
Message: <MPG.224e4801503ad23698a11e@news.povray.org>
In article <47e47a1d$1@news.povray.org>, dne### [at] sanrrcom says...
> Chambers wrote:
> > And the theatre owner can ban anyone they want for any reason they want
. 
> 
> Not quite. There *are* a list of reasons why you can't ban someone. You
 
> can't kick someone out for being Catholic or having dark skin. But other
 
> reasons, sure.
> 
> Indeed, I bet you could make a case that you were kicked out for being 
> atheist, and therefore that's religious discrimination.
> 
> I saw a report of a community refusing to allow lawyers to buy homes 
> there because they file too many lawsuits.  A lawyer was refused, and he
 
> of course filed a lawsuit.  He lost, because "lawyer" isn't a protected
 
> category.
> 
Yeah. They are busy spinning this, trying to claim that they knew, from 
some comment made on the subject previously by PZ, that he would have 
been disruptive. The fact that his behavior, unless you read one version 
of events from the creationist attending, who has so far posted 2 
conflicting claims of PZs behavior, one saying he was disruptive, the 
other that, "well, no, actually he wasn't..", showed nothing of the 
sort, is a bit odd. The fact that he hasn't shown a public tendency to 
be disruptive doesn't lend itself to the claim either. The only apparent 
reason why he might have been refused was because Mathis, who produced 
this garbage, hates PZs guts for the few times PZ called in one some 
radio interview by the fool and made him look like the idiot he was. 
Basically, the working theory is that Mathis saw PZ, recognized who he 
was, ordered him removed, but in his panic didn't notice who was with 
him. A fact pretty much confirmed by the later account of him turning 
white as a sheet when he called on Dawkins, then the later spin they 
have tried to put on it, claiming that they cowed Dawkins into 
submission during the Q&A after. The only thing certain is that their 
message is, "Our version of evolution is the right one, we think ID is 
better, but don't plan to tell you what the hell that actually is, and 
oh, BTW, evolution leads to atheism, which led to Hitler." If there is 
one damn thing in those premises that isn't either delusional, 
historically wrong, or showing a vast ignorance of everything about the 
subjects they are trying to talk about, its probably that the movie is 
"their view". The rest... couldn't be more wrong if they tried to claim 
that evolution is wrong because it doesn't explain The Lord of the Rings 
and that Gandalf was really the first Pope and that the Holocaust was 
caused by the rediscovery of the One Ring.

-- 
void main () {

    if version = "Vista" {
      call slow_by_half();
      call DRM_everything();
    }
    call functional_code();
  }
  else
    call crash_windows();
}

<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models,
 
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>


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From: nemesis
Subject: Re: Puting the ID in Stupid.
Date: 22 Mar 2008 00:40:01
Message: <web.47e49ba9bd0847b4fe19a56b0@news.povray.org>
My problem with creationists and the ID people is that they should not ditch
science in favor of the Bible as it makes up for stupid arguments.  Instead,
they should understand what the Bible says under the light of science.  They
should embrace science and with such ammunition try to understand how God did
it, instead of simply saying:  "The Lord said so and so it happened".  That
leads nowhere, it does not take us closer to an understandment of God's and our
own nature.


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From: Warp
Subject: Re: Puting the ID in Stupid.
Date: 22 Mar 2008 14:04:24
Message: <47e55836@news.povray.org>
Patrick Elliott <sel### [at] rraznet> wrote:
> Well, for people that shoot themselves in the foot, this one had to an 
> RPG. PZ Myers, a fairly well known, but hardly world wide known, name in 
> the so called debate between 1 AD theology and 2008 AD science, and who 
> was interviewed, (or more like mugged), for the movie Expelled, has been 
> expelled from the line for the movie in the Mall of America. He was 
> there in the twin cities, with his family, and other atheists, to attend 
> a convention *for* atheists. I will leave the punchline of who **did** 
> get let in instead for those reading the post (Hint: This person **is** 
> known world wide, and they also misused interview material from him in 
> it).

  For some reason I didn't understand that paragraph at all.

  Anyways, this subject is boring. Could we please pass? I don't think
this server needs yet another "let's all bash ID wackos" megathread.

-- 
                                                          - Warp


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