So just before Christmas, I bought Skyrim. You know, to see what all the 
fuss is about. Since this is apparently the best game that has ever been 
made in the history of human existence...

In summary, Skyrim is identical to Fallout, except that instead of a 
boring post-apocalyptic wasteland, it's a somewhat less boring Norse 
wasteland. With dragons, for some reason.

It's interesting the number of names that have to have "dragon" in them. 
It's like somebody is trying to be Tolkien, and failing. Dragonborn, 
dragonstone, dragonsreach... Do you realise, the Jarl of Whiterun 
employs a wizard named "Farengar Secret-Fire"? There's nothing more to 
say about *that*...

The trouble with these mythical lands, much like Tolkien, is that all 
the nouns sound so utterly identical that it's *really hard* to follow 
what the *hell* is going on! Several times I wished there was some way 
to replay what some character said, because I can't remember what it 
was. (Or rather, I can't remember what the psuedo-Norse nouns were!)

The currency of Fallout is bottle caps, and you will never, ever have 
even remotely enough of them. And even if you do, the stuff you want to 
buy won't be available to purchase anyway. The currency of Skyrim is 
gold coins. Now a *gold* coin sounds like it should be worth a hell of a 
lot... but apparently it isn't. I guess because they're so ubiquitous or 
something? Like, 1 apple is worth 1 gold coin. (Sometimes.)

In Fallout, the problem is that you'll never find anything valuable to 
sell. In Skyrim, the problem is that you'll never find anybody who can 
afford to buy your stuff off you. Like, I found a magical staff that the 
game reckons is worth about 3,000 gold coins. I have yet to meet a 
merchant of any kind who has more than 500 gold coins in total. So this 
extremely valuable item appears to be totally illiquid.

Trying to amass 5,000 gold to buy a house was... challenging. There's an 
achievement for managing to own 100,000 gold. From what I've seen so 
far, you would actually, like, *win* something IRL for that!

Even just figuring out who to sell which items to is entirely 
nontrivial. In Fallout, there is (as far as I can tell) only one trading 
post in the entire world, and they buy and sell anything. In Whiterun 
alone, there's a general goods place, an alchemy place and a hunting 
supplies place. (There's also meant to be a blacksmith; I really need to 
find that guy...)

One big difference between Fallout and Skyrim is that there are no guns. 
The only way to hurt somebody is to physically walk up to them and hit 
them with a mace. Apparently a lot of people have commented that combat 
sucks in Skyrim, and I kinda agree; it looks more like you're swiping 
air than actually doing damage, no matter what the health bar says.

I have no idea what a "draugr" is, but Bleak Falls Barrow is full of 
them. And they're surprisingly hard to kill. It seems health 
spontaneously regenerates on its own, so you just need to stand around 
and suck your thumb for a while after you kill one. But if several 
attack you at once, you have a problem!

Actually, it turns out there's quite a few caves and barrows scattered 
around the place where you can go underground and loot stuff. And 
they're almost all infested with draugrs. (Although I did manage to find 
one cave that was spiders and mages.)

Trying to beat the draugr overlord of Bleak Falls Barrow was an exercise 
in frustration. He's just unkillable! If you get close enough to swing a 
mace at him, he'll cut you to bits before you can do anything to him. 
Eventually, in desperation, I tried using magic. I knew from early on in 
the game that magic existed, but I had assumed it would be extremely 
complex and fiddly to use, and utterly useless in combat. It turns out 
it's actually quite effective. To the point that I now no longer bother 
carrying any weapons at all; I just set people on fire from afar.

None of that helps, of course, when you're occasionally required to kill 
a dragon. Now those critters really *are* unkillable! It seems the only 
way to harm them is with a bow and arrow - a weapon roughly as accurate 
as a paper aeroplane. And it does roughly the same damage as a small 
sheet of paper too. And has incredibly disappointing range. The dragon, 
of course, breathes fire. (Except the ones that breathe ice? Wuh?)

So far, I've only managed to kill two in the entire game. Which is 
problematic, because apparently I need another dragon soul to complete 
the next step in one of the side-quests. That means it looks like I need 
to go purposely *find* a dragon and kill it - and that's just crazy 
talk. I don't know, maybe I just need to gather better gear or 
something... but I have *no idea* what would actually help at this 
point. Dragons are immune to just about everything except arrows, and 
nothing increases their damage, accuracy or range, so...

Much like Fallout, it's quite hard to avoid all the people who dot the 
land. Which is a problem, since whenever you meet a person, there's a 
50% chance they'll try to kill you on sight. At least it's harder to get 
lost in Skyrim; the scenery is much less repetitive.

It seems there's still lots more to learn about the game. (Alchemy, 
enchantments, how to learn new spells, etc.) But for now, I've got two 
quests open, and they're both stalled. One requires me to use a new 
Thu'um I just learned, which apparently requires a dragon soul. (Yeah, 
like those are easy to find.) The other requires me to infiltrate a 
party somehow. Rather, I can get in, but then I need to create a 
distraction somehow, and I've got no clue. I also need to figure out 
what equipment I need to smuggle in, *before* I get there, so I don't 
know what I'll need yet. I suspect that picking the wrong stuff makes 
the quest impossible.

Oh well. Let's go watch the sunset or something...

Post a reply to this message

On 1/24/2016 11:16 AM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> It's interesting the number of names that have to have "dragon" in them.

My next door neighbour is called Dragan. </Trivia>


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 1/24/2016 6:16 AM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> So just before Christmas, I bought Skyrim. You know, to see what all the
> fuss is about. Since this is apparently the best game that has ever been
> made in the history of human existence...
>
> In summary, Skyrim is identical to Fallout, except that instead of a
> boring post-apocalyptic wasteland, it's a somewhat less boring Norse
> wasteland. With dragons, for some reason.
>
> It's interesting the number of names that have to have "dragon" in them.
> It's like somebody is trying to be Tolkien, and failing. Dragonborn,
> dragonstone, dragonsreach... Do you realise, the Jarl of Whiterun
> employs a wizard named "Farengar Secret-Fire"? There's nothing more to
> say about *that*...
>
> The trouble with these mythical lands, much like Tolkien, is that all
> the nouns sound so utterly identical that it's *really hard* to follow
> what the *hell* is going on! Several times I wished there was some way
> to replay what some character said, because I can't remember what it
> was. (Or rather, I can't remember what the psuedo-Norse nouns were!)
>
> The currency of Fallout is bottle caps, and you will never, ever have
> even remotely enough of them. And even if you do, the stuff you want to
> buy won't be available to purchase anyway. The currency of Skyrim is
> gold coins. Now a *gold* coin sounds like it should be worth a hell of a
> lot... but apparently it isn't. I guess because they're so ubiquitous or
> something? Like, 1 apple is worth 1 gold coin. (Sometimes.)
>
> In Fallout, the problem is that you'll never find anything valuable to
> sell. In Skyrim, the problem is that you'll never find anybody who can
> afford to buy your stuff off you. Like, I found a magical staff that the
> game reckons is worth about 3,000 gold coins. I have yet to meet a
> merchant of any kind who has more than 500 gold coins in total. So this
> extremely valuable item appears to be totally illiquid.
>
> Trying to amass 5,000 gold to buy a house was... challenging. There's an
> achievement for managing to own 100,000 gold. From what I've seen so
> far, you would actually, like, *win* something IRL for that!
>
> Even just figuring out who to sell which items to is entirely
> nontrivial. In Fallout, there is (as far as I can tell) only one trading
> post in the entire world, and they buy and sell anything. In Whiterun
> alone, there's a general goods place, an alchemy place and a hunting
> supplies place. (There's also meant to be a blacksmith; I really need to
> find that guy...)
>
> One big difference between Fallout and Skyrim is that there are no guns.
> The only way to hurt somebody is to physically walk up to them and hit
> them with a mace. Apparently a lot of people have commented that combat
> sucks in Skyrim, and I kinda agree; it looks more like you're swiping
> air than actually doing damage, no matter what the health bar says.
>
> I have no idea what a "draugr" is, but Bleak Falls Barrow is full of
> them. And they're surprisingly hard to kill. It seems health
> spontaneously regenerates on its own, so you just need to stand around
> and suck your thumb for a while after you kill one. But if several
> attack you at once, you have a problem!
>
> Actually, it turns out there's quite a few caves and barrows scattered
> around the place where you can go underground and loot stuff. And
> they're almost all infested with draugrs. (Although I did manage to find
> one cave that was spiders and mages.)
>
> Trying to beat the draugr overlord of Bleak Falls Barrow was an exercise
> in frustration. He's just unkillable! If you get close enough to swing a
> mace at him, he'll cut you to bits before you can do anything to him.
> Eventually, in desperation, I tried using magic. I knew from early on in
> the game that magic existed, but I had assumed it would be extremely
> complex and fiddly to use, and utterly useless in combat. It turns out
> it's actually quite effective. To the point that I now no longer bother
> carrying any weapons at all; I just set people on fire from afar.
>
> None of that helps, of course, when you're occasionally required to kill
> a dragon. Now those critters really *are* unkillable! It seems the only
> way to harm them is with a bow and arrow - a weapon roughly as accurate
> as a paper aeroplane. And it does roughly the same damage as a small
> sheet of paper too. And has incredibly disappointing range. The dragon,
> of course, breathes fire. (Except the ones that breathe ice? Wuh?)
>
> So far, I've only managed to kill two in the entire game. Which is
> problematic, because apparently I need another dragon soul to complete
> the next step in one of the side-quests. That means it looks like I need
> to go purposely *find* a dragon and kill it - and that's just crazy
> talk. I don't know, maybe I just need to gather better gear or
> something... but I have *no idea* what would actually help at this
> point. Dragons are immune to just about everything except arrows, and
> nothing increases their damage, accuracy or range, so...
>
> Much like Fallout, it's quite hard to avoid all the people who dot the
> land. Which is a problem, since whenever you meet a person, there's a
> 50% chance they'll try to kill you on sight. At least it's harder to get
> lost in Skyrim; the scenery is much less repetitive.
>
> It seems there's still lots more to learn about the game. (Alchemy,
> enchantments, how to learn new spells, etc.) But for now, I've got two
> quests open, and they're both stalled. One requires me to use a new
> Thu'um I just learned, which apparently requires a dragon soul. (Yeah,
> like those are easy to find.) The other requires me to infiltrate a
> party somehow. Rather, I can get in, but then I need to create a
> distraction somehow, and I've got no clue. I also need to figure out
> what equipment I need to smuggle in, *before* I get there, so I don't
> know what I'll need yet. I suspect that picking the wrong stuff makes
> the quest impossible.
>
> Oh well. Let's go watch the sunset or something...

You should play Fallout New Vegas, not Fallout 3.

Also, a lot of people called Fallout 3 "Oblivion with Guns" when it was 
released, after the previous Elder Scrolls game.


Mike

Post a reply to this message

Le 2016-01-24 06:16, Orchid Win7 v1 a écrit :
> The trouble with these mythical lands, much like Tolkien, is that all
> the nouns sound so utterly identical that it's *really hard* to follow
> what the *hell* is going on!

I wonder where they got a silly idea like that!

BedfordshireBerkshire
Buckinghamshire
Cambridgeshire
Cheshire
Derbyshire
Gloucestershire
Hampshire
Herefordshire
Hertfordshire <--- 1 whole character different!
Lancashire
Leicestershire
Lincolnshire
Northamptonshire
Nottinghamshire
Oxfordshire
Shropshire
Staffordshire
Warwickshire
Wiltshire
Worcestershire
East Riding of Yorkshire
North Yorkshire
South Yorkshire
West Yorkshire


-- 
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/*    flabreque    */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/*        @        */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/*   gmail.com     */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }

Post a reply to this message

On 1/24/2016 7:32 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
> East Riding of Yorkshire
> North Yorkshire
> South Yorkshire
> West Yorkshire

Tsk tsk.
You’re mixing modern and ancient.

There are only three ridings in Yorkshire. South Yorkshire was not 
created until 1974 so it is too new to take account of.



-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 24/01/2016 11:16 AM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> Actually, it turns out there's quite a few caves and barrows scattered
> around the place where you can go underground and loot stuff. And
> they're almost all infested with draugrs. (Although I did manage to find
> one cave that was spiders and mages.)

This is slightly weird, actually. Like, you go to Whiterun, enter their 
"Hall of Ancesters", and you're in a regular dungeon fighting zombies 
and stuff. But if you think about it, you're slicing up Whiterun's 
revered ancestors, looting their corpses and stealing all the grave 
goods. And then you walk into the main Whiterun shop and sell the stuff 
back to them. And everybody is... OK with this?

> So far, I've only managed to kill two in the entire game. Which is
> problematic, because apparently I need another dragon soul to complete
> the next step in one of the side-quests. That means it looks like I need
> to go purposely *find* a dragon and kill it - and that's just crazy
> talk. I don't know, maybe I just need to gather better gear or
> something... but I have *no idea* what would actually help at this
> point. Dragons are immune to just about everything except arrows, and
> nothing increases their damage, accuracy or range, so...

Well, it seems if you wander around for long enough, eventually dragons 
come and find you! And if that happens in a populated area... yeah, just 
get all the armed guards do the work for you. ;-)

So I managed to unlock the required Thu'um and use it on the Wind Stone. 
Which summoned a beast that's really hard to kill - not least because it 
has regenerating health. (!) Fortunately I found an AI glitch where he 
just stayed rooted to the spot until I finished him. Unfortunately, at 
the next Stone, there were two of the damned things. I think I need to 
go find some better armour or something...

> It seems there's still lots more to learn about the game. (Alchemy,
> enchantments, how to learn new spells, etc.)

So today I went on a nature hike and collected every ingredient I could 
find. I tested each and every one, and... almost none of them go 
together to make a potion. Oh, except lavender + tundra cotton. That 
does something.

After much travelling to various remote lands, I've now discovered one 
or two combinations that actually do something. It's kind of an 
adventure! And considering that most ingredients can be bought or sold 
for not more than 5 coins, the potions they make are remarkably 
valuable... I particularly enjoy the potion that restores 22 stamina and 
does 15 health damage. Yeah, like that's really useful to me. Still, it 
sells for a good price.

I wasn't actually trying to, but I happened upon a few more dungeons and 
sold the stuff I found, and sold the not-so-good potions, and now I have 
over 10,000 gold. So I bought lots of upgrades to Breezeholm. It's 
looking quite nice now.

However, I'm still getting my arse handed to me in combat, so I think 
it's time to actually go join the mage college...

Post a reply to this message

On 24-1-2016 20:32, Francois Labreque wrote:
> Le 2016-01-24 06:16, Orchid Win7 v1 a écrit :
>> The trouble with these mythical lands, much like Tolkien, is that all
>> the nouns sound so utterly identical that it's *really hard* to follow
>> what the *hell* is going on!
>
> I wonder where they got a silly idea like that!
>
> BedfordshireBerkshire
> Buckinghamshire
> Cambridgeshire
> Cheshire
> Derbyshire
> Gloucestershire
> Hampshire
> Herefordshire
> Hertfordshire <--- 1 whole character different!
> Lancashire
> Leicestershire
> Lincolnshire
> Northamptonshire
> Nottinghamshire
> Oxfordshire
> Shropshire
> Staffordshire
> Warwickshire
> Wiltshire
> Worcestershire
> East Riding of Yorkshire
> North Yorkshire
> South Yorkshire
> West Yorkshire
>
>

Yes! and then they mash up their pronunciation too! ;-)

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On 24/01/2016 07:32 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
> Le 2016-01-24 06:16, Orchid Win7 v1 a écrit :
>> The trouble with these mythical lands, much like Tolkien, is that all
>> the nouns sound so utterly identical that it's *really hard* to follow
>> what the *hell* is going on!
>
> I wonder where they got a silly idea like that!
>
> BedfordshireBerkshire
> Buckinghamshire
> Cambridgeshire
> Cheshire
> Derbyshire
> Gloucestershire
> Hampshire
> Herefordshire
> Hertfordshire <--- 1 whole character different!
> Lancashire
> Leicestershire
> Lincolnshire
> Northamptonshire
> Nottinghamshire
> Oxfordshire
> Shropshire
> Staffordshire
> Warwickshire
> Wiltshire
> Worcestershire
> East Riding of Yorkshire
> North Yorkshire
> South Yorkshire
> West Yorkshire

...and yet, The Shire is in New Zealand. Go figure.

Still, at least these are *pronounceable*! :-P I'm still trying to 
figure out Aragorn and Arwen. The way they pronounce them in the films 
is nearly indistinguishable...

Post a reply to this message

>> BedfordshireBerkshire
>> Buckinghamshire
>> Cambridgeshire
>> Cheshire
>> Derbyshire
>> Gloucestershire
>> Hampshire
>> Herefordshire
>> Hertfordshire <--- 1 whole character different!
>> Lancashire
>> Leicestershire
>> Lincolnshire
>> Northamptonshire
>> Nottinghamshire
>> Oxfordshire
>> Shropshire
>> Staffordshire
>> Warwickshire
>> Wiltshire
>> Worcestershire
>> East Riding of Yorkshire
>> North Yorkshire
>> South Yorkshire
>> West Yorkshire
>
> ...and yet, The Shire is in New Zealand. Go figure.
>
> Still, at least these are *pronounceable*! :-P

Yes they are all pronouneable if you know how to pronounce them :-) Ever 
heard foreigners trying to pronounce the ones with "cester" in them? I 
still find place names around here that I have no idea how to pronounce 
correctly, or worse find out I've been saying them wrong, and I was born 
here! Imagine what it's like for foreigners...

Post a reply to this message

>> Still, at least these are *pronounceable*! :-P
>
> Yes they are all pronouneable if you know how to pronounce them :-) Ever
> heard foreigners trying to pronounce the ones with "cester" in them? I
> still find place names around here that I have no idea how to pronounce
> correctly, or worse find out I've been saying them wrong, and I was born
> here! Imagine what it's like for foreigners...

Particularly amusing is Towcester.

(Many people try to pronounce it "toe-sester". It's actually "toaster", 
which is still a pretty stupid name...)

Post a reply to this message

Am 25.01.2016 um 11:30 schrieb scott:

> Yes they are all pronouneable if you know how to pronounce them :-) Ever
> heard foreigners trying to pronounce the ones with "cester" in them? I
> still find place names around here that I have no idea how to pronounce
> correctly, or worse find out I've been saying them wrong, and I was born
> here! Imagine what it's like for foreigners...

Bah - English place names are boring. Ever tried Irish?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwstj9FJHGg

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 20:29:35 +0100, clipka wrote:

> Am 25.01.2016 um 11:30 schrieb scott:
> 
>> Yes they are all pronouneable if you know how to pronounce them :-)
>> Ever heard foreigners trying to pronounce the ones with "cester" in
>> them? I still find place names around here that I have no idea how to
>> pronounce correctly, or worse find out I've been saying them wrong, and
>> I was born here! Imagine what it's like for foreigners...
> 
> Bah - English place names are boring. Ever tried Irish?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwstj9FJHGg

Welsh FTW. :)

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

Jim

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

Am 25.01.2016 um 21:17 schrieb Jim Henderson:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 20:29:35 +0100, clipka wrote:
> 
>> Am 25.01.2016 um 11:30 schrieb scott:
>>
>>> Yes they are all pronouneable if you know how to pronounce them :-)
>>> Ever heard foreigners trying to pronounce the ones with "cester" in
>>> them? I still find place names around here that I have no idea how to
>>> pronounce correctly, or worse find out I've been saying them wrong, and
>>> I was born here! Imagine what it's like for foreigners...
>>
>> Bah - English place names are boring. Ever tried Irish?
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwstj9FJHGg
> 
> Welsh FTW. :)
> 
> Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

Not really /that/ difficult. Once you've figured out what sound the "ll"
and "w" correspond to, it's pretty straightforward to pronounce. /Very/
straightforward actually, IIRC.

Irish - not so much.

Also that particular place name ist just there for the tourists, and is
actually a concatenation of two very verbose descriptive place names:
"St. Mary's [Church] by the White Aspen over the Whirlpool by
Whathaveyounot and St. Tysilio's [Church] by the Damnedifiremember", or
something along those lines. (And yes, that was from 20 year old memory.)

Post a reply to this message

On 1/25/2016 7:29 PM, clipka wrote:
> Am 25.01.2016 um 11:30 schrieb scott:
>
>> Yes they are all pronouneable if you know how to pronounce them :-) Ever
>> heard foreigners trying to pronounce the ones with "cester" in them? I
>> still find place names around here that I have no idea how to pronounce
>> correctly, or worse find out I've been saying them wrong, and I was born
>> here! Imagine what it's like for foreigners...
>
> Bah - English place names are boring. Ever tried Irish?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwstj9FJHGg
>

Not fair using Irish English as an example. :)
It is a bastardisation of Gaelic by people who cared not for the Irish. 
In fact despised and oppressed them. My surname, for example, has had 
its meaning lost in translation. It is generally reckoned to be: Son of; 
a blond haired man (Viking), a wanderer or a variant of Macbeth (son of 
breath/life, a title). Who knows now?
In lowland Scotland we have Auchenshuggle, Auchterarder and the well 
known Milngavie. Famous for being pronounced Mull-guy.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 22:11:25 +0100, clipka wrote:

> Am 25.01.2016 um 21:17 schrieb Jim Henderson:
>> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 20:29:35 +0100, clipka wrote:
>> 
>>> Am 25.01.2016 um 11:30 schrieb scott:
>>>
>>>> Yes they are all pronouneable if you know how to pronounce them :-)
>>>> Ever heard foreigners trying to pronounce the ones with "cester" in
>>>> them? I still find place names around here that I have no idea how to
>>>> pronounce correctly, or worse find out I've been saying them wrong,
>>>> and I was born here! Imagine what it's like for foreigners...
>>>
>>> Bah - English place names are boring. Ever tried Irish?
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwstj9FJHGg
>> 
>> Welsh FTW. :)
>> 
>> Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
> 
> Not really /that/ difficult. Once you've figured out what sound the "ll"
> and "w" correspond to, it's pretty straightforward to pronounce. /Very/
> straightforward actually, IIRC.
> 
> Irish - not so much.
> 
> Also that particular place name ist just there for the tourists, and is
> actually a concatenation of two very verbose descriptive place names:
> "St. Mary's [Church] by the White Aspen over the Whirlpool by
> Whathaveyounot and St. Tysilio's [Church] by the Damnedifiremember", or
> something along those lines. (And yes, that was from 20 year old
> memory.)

True, then again, you could always try something like Gaelic.  Or for a 
challenge, try a non-Romanized language; Russian, Polish, Hungarian (is 
quite interesting), Japanese, Chinese, or another similar language. :)

Jim



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

Am 26.01.2016 um 01:59 schrieb Jim Henderson:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 22:11:25 +0100, clipka wrote:
> 
>> Am 25.01.2016 um 21:17 schrieb Jim Henderson:
>>> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 20:29:35 +0100, clipka wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 25.01.2016 um 11:30 schrieb scott:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes they are all pronouneable if you know how to pronounce them :-)
>>>>> Ever heard foreigners trying to pronounce the ones with "cester" in
>>>>> them? I still find place names around here that I have no idea how to
>>>>> pronounce correctly, or worse find out I've been saying them wrong,
>>>>> and I was born here! Imagine what it's like for foreigners...
>>>>
>>>> Bah - English place names are boring. Ever tried Irish?
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwstj9FJHGg
>>>
>>> Welsh FTW. :)
>>>
>>> Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
>>
>> Not really /that/ difficult. Once you've figured out what sound the "ll"
>> and "w" correspond to, it's pretty straightforward to pronounce. /Very/
>> straightforward actually, IIRC.
>>
>> Irish - not so much.
>>
>> Also that particular place name ist just there for the tourists, and is
>> actually a concatenation of two very verbose descriptive place names:
>> "St. Mary's [Church] by the White Aspen over the Whirlpool by
>> Whathaveyounot and St. Tysilio's [Church] by the Damnedifiremember", or
>> something along those lines. (And yes, that was from 20 year old
>> memory.)
> 
> True, then again, you could always try something like Gaelic.

Well... I /vaguely/ recall having mention Irish ;)

> Or for a 
> challenge, try a non-Romanized language; Russian, Polish, Hungarian (is 
> quite interesting), Japanese, Chinese, or another similar language. :)

I think aside from Chinese (for rather obvious reasons) neither of them
can cope with Irish when it comes to leaving the reader puzzled as to
how an unfamiliar written word is spoken or vice versa, even when said
reader is well-versed in the script(*) used.

That's because Irish is exceptionally unconventional in how it uses the
latin script to render the language's phonemes.

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 08:38:43 +0100, clipka wrote:

>> True, then again, you could always try something like Gaelic.
> 
> Well... I /vaguely/ recall having mention Irish ;)

Which is not quite the same as Gaelic - or rather, Gaelic languages (6 
living langauges, a few mixed, and a few nearly dead languages - I know 
someone who's one of about 5 people in the world who speak one particular 
dialect - in Scotland).

Welsh actually is one of those languages, as is Irish.  Breton, Scotish 
Gaelic, Cornish, and Manx are the other living languages.

I can't tell you how many people mispronounce my cats' names - which are 
Manx Gaelic (and actually, relatively simple names to pronounce).

>> Or for a challenge, try a non-Romanized language; Russian, Polish,
>> Hungarian (is quite interesting), Japanese, Chinese, or another similar
>> language. :)
> 
> I think aside from Chinese (for rather obvious reasons) neither of them
> can cope with Irish when it comes to leaving the reader puzzled as to
> how an unfamiliar written word is spoken or vice versa, even when said
> reader is well-versed in the script(*) used.

Arguably, English itself has some oddities that make pronunciation 
difficult for non-native speakers to use.

For example, the made-up word 'ghoti' is often used to describe the 
idiosyncrasies of English pronunciation.  (The actual pronunciation of 
that made-up word is "fish" - gh from 'tough', o from 'women', ti from 
'nation').

> That's because Irish is exceptionally unconventional in how it uses the
> latin script to render the language's phonemes.

Another that strikes me as in a similar class is Catalan - though a fair 
amount of the 'misunderstanding' of Catalan vs. European Spanish is less 
a lack of understanding based on mispronunciation and more what some 
might just term as 'dickishness'. :)

Jim

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

On 1/26/2016 3:16 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 08:38:43 +0100, clipka wrote:
>
>>> True, then again, you could always try something like Gaelic.
>>
>> Well... I /vaguely/ recall having mention Irish ;)
>
> Which is not quite the same as Gaelic - or rather, Gaelic languages (6
> living langauges, a few mixed, and a few nearly dead languages - I know
> someone who's one of about 5 people in the world who speak one particular
> dialect - in Scotland).
>

About 20 years ago I was on a rig where the OIM had been to the funeral 
of the last Doric, of a certain type, speaker.

> Welsh actually is one of those languages, as is Irish.  Breton, Scotish
> Gaelic, Cornish, and Manx are the other living languages.
>

Irish, are you talking about Irish Gaelic?

I would call Irish Gaelic and Scotish Gaelic, gaelic but would pronounce 
then differently.


> I can't tell you how many people mispronounce my cats' names - which are
> Manx Gaelic (and actually, relatively simple names to pronounce).
>

That supriseses me. :-P

>>> Or for a challenge, try a non-Romanized language; Russian, Polish,
>>> Hungarian (is quite interesting), Japanese, Chinese, or another similar
>>> language. :)
>>
>> I think aside from Chinese (for rather obvious reasons) neither of them
>> can cope with Irish when it comes to leaving the reader puzzled as to
>> how an unfamiliar written word is spoken or vice versa, even when said
>> reader is well-versed in the script(*) used.
>
> Arguably, English itself has some oddities that make pronunciation
> difficult for non-native speakers to use.
>

Ah! remember who you are speaking to.
Being bi-lingual, adds complications.


> For example, the made-up word 'ghoti' is often used to describe the
> idiosyncrasies of English pronunciation.  (The actual pronunciation of
> that made-up word is "fish" - gh from 'tough', o from 'women', ti from
> 'nation').
>

A case of the parts adding to more than the sun of the whoke. :)

>> That's because Irish is exceptionally unconventional in how it uses the
>> latin script to render the language's phonemes.
>
> Another that strikes me as in a similar class is Catalan - though a fair
> amount of the 'misunderstanding' of Catalan vs. European Spanish is less
> a lack of understanding based on mispronunciation and more what some
> might just term as 'dickishness'. :)
>
Watch it ot ETA will come to get you. :P



-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 1/26/2016 5:51 PM, Stephen wrote:
> That supriseses me. :-P

surprises

Bugrit!
Anyone know how to get Tbird to spell check UK English. The last upgrade 
has messed up my spellchecker. Grrr!

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 1/26/2016 5:55 PM, Stephen wrote:
> On 1/26/2016 5:51 PM, Stephen wrote:
>> That supriseses me. :-P
>
> surprises
>
> Bugrit!
> Anyone know how to get Tbird to spell check UK English. The last upgrade
> has messed up my spellchecker. Grrr!
>

See ::(

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 17:51:55 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 1/26/2016 3:16 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 08:38:43 +0100, clipka wrote:
>>
>>>> True, then again, you could always try something like Gaelic.
>>>
>>> Well... I /vaguely/ recall having mention Irish ;)
>>
>> Which is not quite the same as Gaelic - or rather, Gaelic languages (6
>> living langauges, a few mixed, and a few nearly dead languages - I know
>> someone who's one of about 5 people in the world who speak one
>> particular dialect - in Scotland).
>>
>>
> About 20 years ago I was on a rig where the OIM had been to the funeral
> of the last Doric, of a certain type, speaker.

I need to find out from Alistair what it is that he speaks.  He said 
there's one other person in the town he lives in who speaks it.  
Fortunately, they get along. :)

>> Welsh actually is one of those languages, as is Irish.  Breton, Scotish
>> Gaelic, Cornish, and Manx are the other living languages.
>>
>>
> Irish, are you talking about Irish Gaelic?

Yes, sorry, I should have been clear on that.

>> I can't tell you how many people mispronounce my cats' names - which
>> are Manx Gaelic (and actually, relatively simple names to pronounce).
>>
>>
> That supriseses me. :-P

Which part of it?

That they're simple names to pronounce?

>>>> Or for a challenge, try a non-Romanized language; Russian, Polish,
>>>> Hungarian (is quite interesting), Japanese, Chinese, or another
>>>> similar language. :)
>>>
>>> I think aside from Chinese (for rather obvious reasons) neither of
>>> them can cope with Irish when it comes to leaving the reader puzzled
>>> as to how an unfamiliar written word is spoken or vice versa, even
>>> when said reader is well-versed in the script(*) used.
>>
>> Arguably, English itself has some oddities that make pronunciation
>> difficult for non-native speakers to use.
>>
>>
> Ah! remember who you are speaking to.
> Being bi-lingual, adds complications.

Very true. :)

>> For example, the made-up word 'ghoti' is often used to describe the
>> idiosyncrasies of English pronunciation.  (The actual pronunciation of
>> that made-up word is "fish" - gh from 'tough', o from 'women', ti from
>> 'nation').
>>
>>
> A case of the parts adding to more than the sun of the whoke. :)

Basically, yes.  :)

>>> That's because Irish is exceptionally unconventional in how it uses
>>> the latin script to render the language's phonemes.
>>
>> Another that strikes me as in a similar class is Catalan - though a
>> fair amount of the 'misunderstanding' of Catalan vs. European Spanish
>> is less a lack of understanding based on mispronunciation and more what
>> some might just term as 'dickishness'. :)
>>
> Watch it ot ETA will come to get you. :P

LOL, ain't that the truth.  It didn't occur to me that I was speaking 
Spanish (poorly) when I was in Barcelona, and I thought my Spanish 
pronunciation was just a little rusty when a shopkeeper couldn't 
understand me.  So I tried more slowly, and she "understood", and replied 
full speed to my inquiry, even after it was apparent that I wasn't 
speaking the same language she was.

¿Tiene libros de fotografías?

and

Té llibres de fotografies?

Are not that far off from each other, but far enough, I think, to inform 
the native-speaker that responding at native speed wouldn't be helpful - 
and an answer that involves complex directions to a store elsewhere in 
the shops probably wasn't going to be understood.

I found what I was looking for, eventually, anyways, so no harm done.

Jim
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 17:55:56 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 1/26/2016 5:55 PM, Stephen wrote:
>> On 1/26/2016 5:51 PM, Stephen wrote:
>>> That supriseses me. :-P
>>
>> surprises
>>
>> Bugrit!
>> Anyone know how to get Tbird to spell check UK English. The last
>> upgrade has messed up my spellchecker. Grrr!
>>
>>
> See ::(

LOL



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

On 1/26/2016 7:13 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 17:51:55 +0000, Stephen wrote:
>
>
>> About 20 years ago I was on a rig where the OIM had been to the funeral
>> of the last Doric, of a certain type, speaker.
>
> I need to find out from Alistair what it is that he speaks.  He said
> there's one other person in the town he lives in who speaks it.
> Fortunately, they get along. :)
>

Fit like, ma loon?
:)

>>> Welsh actually is one of those languages, as is Irish.  Breton, Scotish
>>> Gaelic, Cornish, and Manx are the other living languages.
>>>
>>>
>> Irish, are you talking about Irish Gaelic?
>
> Yes, sorry, I should have been clear on that.
>

Yeah, it took me a while to understand what you meant.
But coming from somewhere that speaks Lowland Scotts/ Ulster Scots. I am 
easily confused. :)

>>> I can't tell you how many people mispronounce my cats' names - which
>>> are Manx Gaelic (and actually, relatively simple names to pronounce).
>>>
>>>
>> That supriseses me. :-P
>
> Which part of it?
>

The part where you missed out what your cat is called. :P

> That they're simple names to pronounce?
>

Simple if you know how, I would imagine.
It is like the "ch" sound in loch, I can't understand how some people 
cannot ronounce it. Badness I assume. ;)



>
>>> For example, the made-up word 'ghoti' is often used to describe the
>>> idiosyncrasies of English pronunciation.  (The actual pronunciation of
>>> that made-up word is "fish" - gh from 'tough', o from 'women', ti from
>>> 'nation').
>>>
>>>
>> A case of the parts adding to more than the sun of the whoke. :)
>

Bloody Adia!
See what happens when your spellchecker does not work. :(


>>>
>> Watch it ot ETA will come to get you. :P
>
> LOL, ain't that the truth.  It didn't occur to me that I was speaking
> Spanish (poorly) when I was in Barcelona, and I thought my Spanish
> pronunciation was just a little rusty when a shopkeeper couldn't
> understand me.  So I tried more slowly, and she "understood", and replied
> full speed to my inquiry, even after it was apparent that I wasn't
> speaking the same language she was.
>
> ¿Tiene libros de fotografías?
>
> and
>
> Té llibres de fotografies?
>
> Are not that far off from each other, but far enough, I think, to inform
> the native-speaker that responding at native speed wouldn't be helpful -
> and an answer that involves complex directions to a store elsewhere in
> the shops probably wasn't going to be understood.
>

LOL but the Spanish are a good natured people and are very happy that 
others try to speak Spanish.

> I found what I was looking for, eventually, anyways, so no harm done.
>

Depend what sort of picture book you were looking for. ^-^


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:54:21 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 1/26/2016 7:13 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 17:51:55 +0000, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>
>>> About 20 years ago I was on a rig where the OIM had been to the
>>> funeral of the last Doric, of a certain type, speaker.
>>
>> I need to find out from Alistair what it is that he speaks.  He said
>> there's one other person in the town he lives in who speaks it.
>> Fortunately, they get along. :)
>>
>>
> Fit like, ma loon?
> :)

No comprendo. :)

>>>> Welsh actually is one of those languages, as is Irish.  Breton,
>>>> Scotish Gaelic, Cornish, and Manx are the other living languages.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Irish, are you talking about Irish Gaelic?
>>
>> Yes, sorry, I should have been clear on that.
>>
>>
> Yeah, it took me a while to understand what you meant.
> But coming from somewhere that speaks Lowland Scotts/ Ulster Scots. I am
> easily confused. :)

:)
 
>>>> I can't tell you how many people mispronounce my cats' names - which
>>>> are Manx Gaelic (and actually, relatively simple names to pronounce).
>>>>
>>>>
>>> That supriseses me. :-P
>>
>> Which part of it?
>>
>>
> The part where you missed out what your cat is called. :P

Ah - the two in question are Fynn (most people don't have a problem with 
that) and Eiyrt (which proves a lot more challenging for most - one vet 
tech was so pleased she had it right that we didn't have the heart to 
tell her she was actually saying it wrong.)

>> That they're simple names to pronounce?
>>
>>
> Simple if you know how, I would imagine.
> It is like the "ch" sound in loch, I can't understand how some people
> cannot ronounce it. Badness I assume. ;)

Which brings me back to Welsh, naturally.  Lots of phlegm, from what I 
hear - including from a friend who's from Wales. :)

>>>> For example, the made-up word 'ghoti' is often used to describe the
>>>> idiosyncrasies of English pronunciation.  (The actual pronunciation
>>>> of that made-up word is "fish" - gh from 'tough', o from 'women', ti
>>>> from 'nation').
>>>>
>>>>
>>> A case of the parts adding to more than the sun of the whoke. :)
>>
>>
> Bloody Adia!
> See what happens when your spellchecker does not work. :(

I understood what you were saying, though. :)

>>> Watch it ot ETA will come to get you. :P
>>
>> LOL, ain't that the truth.  It didn't occur to me that I was speaking
>> Spanish (poorly) when I was in Barcelona, and I thought my Spanish
>> pronunciation was just a little rusty when a shopkeeper couldn't
>> understand me.  So I tried more slowly, and she "understood", and
>> replied full speed to my inquiry, even after it was apparent that I
>> wasn't speaking the same language she was.
>>
>> ¿Tiene libros de fotografías?
>>
>> and
>>
>> Té llibres de fotografies?
>>
>> Are not that far off from each other, but far enough, I think, to
>> inform the native-speaker that responding at native speed wouldn't be
>> helpful - and an answer that involves complex directions to a store
>> elsewhere in the shops probably wasn't going to be understood.
>>
>>
> LOL but the Spanish are a good natured people and are very happy that
> others try to speak Spanish.

Yeah. It's the "Catalonians" who are not as good natured (though, I have 
to admit, in almost 2 weeks there, I only ran into the one person who had 
a problem with my Spanish - though that might be because I didn't use it 
much, and on the cab ride from the airport, the other guy in the cab 
spoke fluent Spanish/Catalan, as he'd served an LDS mission in Barcelona, 
so I didn't have to talk at all.)

>> I found what I was looking for, eventually, anyways, so no harm done.
>>
>>
> Depend what sort of picture book you were looking for. ^-^

My eldest brother had an control issue that kept him to about a 2-mile 
radius of the apartment he lived in at the time; he'd used to like to 
travel some until the mid 70s or so, and then he just couldn't - some 
kind of phobia.

I thought it'd be nice to get him a book that showed some of Barcelona - 
but he didn't speak or read Spanish (or Catalan) at all, so I thought a 
nice book of photos would be good. :)

Jim
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

Am 28.01.2016 um 00:48 schrieb Jim Henderson:

>> The part where you missed out what your cat is called. :P
> 
> Ah - the two in question are Fynn (most people don't have a problem with 
> that) and Eiyrt (which proves a lot more challenging for most - one vet 
> tech was so pleased she had it right that we didn't have the heart to 
> tell her she was actually saying it wrong.)

I'd try "Finn" and "Art", hoping that -- as seems to be so often the
case with Gaelic names -- it's not so much the pronunciation but just
the orthography that's weird. Such as "Sean" for what is essentially "John".

Post a reply to this message

On 28-1-2016 1:24, clipka wrote:
> Am 28.01.2016 um 00:48 schrieb Jim Henderson:
>
>>> The part where you missed out what your cat is called. :P
>>
>> Ah - the two in question are Fynn (most people don't have a problem with
>> that) and Eiyrt (which proves a lot more challenging for most - one vet
>> tech was so pleased she had it right that we didn't have the heart to
>> tell her she was actually saying it wrong.)
>
> I'd try "Finn" and "Art", hoping that -- as seems to be so often the
> case with Gaelic names -- it's not so much the pronunciation but just
> the orthography that's weird. Such as "Sean" for what is essentially "John".
>

I have long time wondered: why the weird orthography?

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Am 28.01.2016 um 09:22 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
> On 28-1-2016 1:24, clipka wrote:
>> Am 28.01.2016 um 00:48 schrieb Jim Henderson:
>>
>>>> The part where you missed out what your cat is called. :P
>>>
>>> Ah - the two in question are Fynn (most people don't have a problem with
>>> that) and Eiyrt (which proves a lot more challenging for most - one vet
>>> tech was so pleased she had it right that we didn't have the heart to
>>> tell her she was actually saying it wrong.)
>>
>> I'd try "Finn" and "Art", hoping that -- as seems to be so often the
>> case with Gaelic names -- it's not so much the pronunciation but just
>> the orthography that's weird. Such as "Sean" for what is essentially
>> "John".
> 
> I have long time wondered: why the weird orthography?

One reason is that the Gaelic language distinguishes various pairs of
consonant phonemes that in other Western European languages are mostly
allophones (i.e. different variations of one and the same phoneme, such
as the "p" in "pop" vs. "pip"), and for which consequently the latin
script provides only one symbol each.

When the Gaelic people adopted the Latin script for writing, instead of
introducing diacritical marks to distinguish those consonant variants,
they instead co-opted the vowel symbols for this use.

Thus, the "e" in "Sean", even though being a latin vowel symbol,
doesn't represent a vowel at all, and rather identifies the "s" as being
the variant that in Gaelic would normally be associated with an "e"
vowel (which happens to be similar to the English "sh") rather than that
normally associated with the "a" vowel actually spoken (which would be a
regular "s" sound).

("s" is actually one of the very few cases where the Gaelic pairs of
phonemes aren't allophones in English.)

Post a reply to this message

On 1/27/2016 11:48 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:54:21 +0000, Stephen wrote:
>

>>>
>>>
>> Fit like, ma loon?
>> :)
>
> No comprendo. :)
>

How are you my young man.
Aberdeen dialect.



>>>
>>>
>> The part where you missed out what your cat is called. :P
>
> Ah - the two in question are Fynn (most people don't have a problem with
> that) and Eiyrt (which proves a lot more challenging for most - one vet
> tech was so pleased she had it right that we didn't have the heart to
> tell her she was actually saying it wrong.)
>

I would not have a clue.


>
> Which brings me back to Welsh, naturally.  Lots of phlegm, from what I
> hear - including from a friend who's from Wales. :)
>

That is true at least in South Wales.


>
> Yeah. It's the "Catalonians" who are not as good natured

I did not find that but then I make sure people know that I am a 
Northern Brit. That works wonders. :D


> as he'd served an LDS mission in Barcelona,

I always read that as LSD. Have a good trip Man. ;)



>
> I thought it'd be nice to get him a book that showed some of Barcelona -
> but he didn't speak or read Spanish (or Catalan) at all, so I thought a
> nice book of photos would be good. :)
>

I got a book on Gaudi's architecture. The pictures could have come from 
a LDS mission. ;)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 15:38:24 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 1/27/2016 11:48 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:54:21 +0000, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>
> 
>>>>
>>> Fit like, ma loon?
>>> :)
>>
>> No comprendo. :)
>>
> How are you my young man.
> Aberdeen dialect.

That would explain it. :)

Never encountered that one before, I don't think.

>>>>
>>> The part where you missed out what your cat is called. :P
>>
>> Ah - the two in question are Fynn (most people don't have a problem
>> with that) and Eiyrt (which proves a lot more challenging for most -
>> one vet tech was so pleased she had it right that we didn't have the
>> heart to tell her she was actually saying it wrong.)
>>
>>
> I would not have a clue.

"Finn" for the first. :)

"Air't" for the second (that's a close approximation).

The names translate to "Light" and "Shadow".  One is a white flame point, 
the other a grey lilac point, and I didn't want to use the boring 
"everyone's done this already" English names. :)

The other one is named Mushi - he's a short-haired tuxedo, but he got 
that name because, as our son Ken said, "he's got mushy brains".  His 
official name is "Indiana", after Indiana Jones (we found him at about 2 
weeks - if not less - abandoned by his mother in our back yard, and he 
yelled until Ken found him, and then climbed into Ken's hands).

So a bit of an adventurer.  But the name never stuck, other than on 
official paperwork.

>> Yeah. It's the "Catalonians" who are not as good natured
> 
> I did not find that but then I make sure people know that I am a
> Northern Brit. That works wonders. :D

Lots of places have a North, I hear. :)

>> as he'd served an LDS mission in Barcelona,
> 
> I always read that as LSD. Have a good trip Man. ;)

LOL

>> I thought it'd be nice to get him a book that showed some of Barcelona
>> -
>> but he didn't speak or read Spanish (or Catalan) at all, so I thought a
>> nice book of photos would be good. :)
>>
>>
> I got a book on Gaudi's architecture. The pictures could have come from
> a LDS mission. ;)

LOL, true enough.  I think Sagrada Familia figured heavily into the book 
I ended up finding for him.

I wonder where the book ended up when he died a couple years ago.

Jim

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 01:24:31 +0100, clipka wrote:

> Am 28.01.2016 um 00:48 schrieb Jim Henderson:
> 
>>> The part where you missed out what your cat is called. :P
>> 
>> Ah - the two in question are Fynn (most people don't have a problem
>> with that) and Eiyrt (which proves a lot more challenging for most -
>> one vet tech was so pleased she had it right that we didn't have the
>> heart to tell her she was actually saying it wrong.)
> 
> I'd try "Finn" and "Art", hoping that -- as seems to be so often the
> case with Gaelic names -- it's not so much the pronunciation but just
> the orthography that's weird. Such as "Sean" for what is essentially
> "John".

Pretty close on the second, and spot on on the first.  Eiyrt is more like 
"Air't" - as a single syllable (as you note).

Jim



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

Am 28.01.2016 um 19:06 schrieb Jim Henderson:

> The other one is named Mushi - he's a short-haired tuxedo, but he got 
> that name because, as our son Ken said, "he's got mushy brains".  His 
> official name is "Indiana", after Indiana Jones (we found him at about 2 
> weeks - if not less - abandoned by his mother in our back yard, and he 
> yelled until Ken found him, and then climbed into Ken's hands).

You do know that in German, "Muschi" is equivalent to the English
"Pussy" (in every respect)? (Though in German the "u" is pronounced more
like a short "oo").

Anyway, that reminds me of one of the cats we had, that also got a name
(actually quite a bunch of names) for being a bit weird. We assume she
was epileptic. Also a tux, btw.

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 20:08:07 +0100, clipka wrote:

> Am 28.01.2016 um 19:06 schrieb Jim Henderson:
> 
>> The other one is named Mushi - he's a short-haired tuxedo, but he got
>> that name because, as our son Ken said, "he's got mushy brains".  His
>> official name is "Indiana", after Indiana Jones (we found him at about
>> 2 weeks - if not less - abandoned by his mother in our back yard, and
>> he yelled until Ken found him, and then climbed into Ken's hands).
> 
> You do know that in German, "Muschi" is equivalent to the English
> "Pussy" (in every respect)? (Though in German the "u" is pronounced more
> like a short "oo").

I didn't, but that makes for a funny name for "cat".

I think originally, Ken spelled it "mooshie", but it shifted to "Mushi" 
as a sort of pseudo-Japanesification of the name (we have family from 
Japan).  Actually, "Mushi" in Japanese (as Romanji) translates to 
"Neglect" (according to Google Translate), which sadly is what his mother 
did to him, so the name also is apt in that translation.

> Anyway, that reminds me of one of the cats we had, that also got a name
> (actually quite a bunch of names) for being a bit weird. We assume she
> was epileptic. Also a tux, btw.

It turns out that ours has a serious heart condition, with the start of 
congestive heart failure.  He's also missing a disc in his spine, which 
explains a host of other medical problems he's had over the years.  
Still, he's a stubborn cat ("little cat" is hardly appropriate for a cat 
that's 15 lbs), and he's made it nearly 13 years so far.

Jim

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

On 28-1-2016 15:19, clipka wrote:
> Am 28.01.2016 um 09:22 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>> On 28-1-2016 1:24, clipka wrote:
>>> Am 28.01.2016 um 00:48 schrieb Jim Henderson:
>>>
>>>>> The part where you missed out what your cat is called. :P
>>>>
>>>> Ah - the two in question are Fynn (most people don't have a problem with
>>>> that) and Eiyrt (which proves a lot more challenging for most - one vet
>>>> tech was so pleased she had it right that we didn't have the heart to
>>>> tell her she was actually saying it wrong.)
>>>
>>> I'd try "Finn" and "Art", hoping that -- as seems to be so often the
>>> case with Gaelic names -- it's not so much the pronunciation but just
>>> the orthography that's weird. Such as "Sean" for what is essentially
>>> "John".
>>
>> I have long time wondered: why the weird orthography?
>
> One reason is that the Gaelic language distinguishes various pairs of
> consonant phonemes that in other Western European languages are mostly
> allophones (i.e. different variations of one and the same phoneme, such
> as the "p" in "pop" vs. "pip"), and for which consequently the latin
> script provides only one symbol each.
>
> When the Gaelic people adopted the Latin script for writing, instead of
> introducing diacritical marks to distinguish those consonant variants,
> they instead co-opted the vowel symbols for this use.
>
> Thus, the "e" in "Sean", even though being a latin vowel symbol,
> doesn't represent a vowel at all, and rather identifies the "s" as being
> the variant that in Gaelic would normally be associated with an "e"
> vowel (which happens to be similar to the English "sh") rather than that
> normally associated with the "a" vowel actually spoken (which would be a
> regular "s" sound).
>
> ("s" is actually one of the very few cases where the Gaelic pairs of
> phonemes aren't allophones in English.)
>

Interesting. Thanks!

I go explore from here :-)

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On 24/01/2016 11:16 AM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> In Fallout, the problem is that you'll never find anything valuable to
> sell. In Skyrim, the problem is that you'll never find anybody who can
> afford to buy your stuff off you. Like, I found a magical staff that the
> game reckons is worth about 3,000 gold coins. I have yet to meet a
> merchant of any kind who has more than 500 gold coins in total. So this
> extremely valuable item appears to be totally illiquid.

The solution, it seems, is to buy something first. Then you can sell the 
more valuable stuff. Which makes it seem like they're banking with me, 
not the other way around... (It also provably cannot result in you 
ending up with more coin than you started with.)

> Even just figuring out who to sell which items to is entirely
> nontrivial. In Fallout, there is (as far as I can tell) only one trading
> post in the entire world, and they buy and sell anything. In Whiterun
> alone, there's a general goods place, an alchemy place and a hunting
> supplies place. (There's also meant to be a blacksmith; I really need to
> find that guy...)

Woo! Found the blacksmith shop. Now I can sell all the weird weapons I 
keep finding for a reasonable price...

Since I only buy armour that's better than what I currently have, I now 
have a really weird mixture of armour from multiple different races. My 
character looks strange. ;-)

Post a reply to this message

On 24/01/2016 10:35 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> However, I'm still getting my arse handed to me in combat, so I think
> it's time to actually go join the mage college...

Joining the mage college didn't really help with anything. It seems all 
you really need to do is talk to the Jarl's mage and buy some spellbooks.

Oh, did I mention? He's called "Farengar Secret-Fire". That's all I have 
to say about that.

Post a reply to this message

On 30/01/2016 09:41 AM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> Woo! Found the blacksmith shop. Now I can sell all the weird weapons I
> keep finding for a reasonable price...

Damn. Vampires attacked me, and killed everybody who works at the 
blacksmith shop. So now the shop is permanently closed. *sigh*

In other news, the girl who works there left me 100 gold in her will. 
For some unknown reason. (And the Jarl took 10 in tax.)

> Since I only buy armour that's better than what I currently have, I now
> have a really weird mixture of armour from multiple different races. My
> character looks strange. ;-)

I've managed to standardise on steel plate for now. With the closure of 
the shop, I guess I won't be upgrading this... ever.

Post a reply to this message

Am 07.02.2016 um 12:10 schrieb Orchid Win7 v1:
> On 30/01/2016 09:41 AM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>> Woo! Found the blacksmith shop. Now I can sell all the weird weapons I
>> keep finding for a reasonable price...
> 
> Damn. Vampires attacked me, and killed everybody who works at the
> blacksmith shop. So now the shop is permanently closed. *sigh*

You should play NetHack. The shopkeepers there are a much more resilient
bunch ;)

> In other news, the girl who works there left me 100 gold in her will.
> For some unknown reason. (And the Jarl took 10 in tax.)

Worked there.
Or is the shop bound to re-open at night time?

Post a reply to this message