Congratulations to your independence, USA!

Now if only you'd let other contries have theirs, too...

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On 04/07/15 13:40, clipka wrote:
> Congratulations to your independence, USA!
> 
> Now if only you'd let other contries have theirs, too...

Sings to the tune of the Star-spangled Banner:

Be kind to your web-footed friends
For that duck may be somebody's mother
She lives all alone in the swamp
Where the weather is somewhat damp

You may think that this is the end
Well it is but to prove that I'm a liar
I'll sing it all over again
Just the same only one key higher

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

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On 7/4/2015 2:03 PM, Doctor John wrote:
> Sings to the tune of the Star-spangled Banner:


NURSE!
The doctor has forgotten his dried frog pills. Again

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Am 04.07.2015 um 16:06 schrieb Stephen:
> On 7/4/2015 2:03 PM, Doctor John wrote:
>> Sings to the tune of the Star-spangled Banner:
>
>
> NURSE!
> The doctor has forgotten his dried frog pills. Again

Maybe a healthy dose of "cruchy frog" chocolates might serve as a 
substitute...

Fingers off "springy surprise" though.

Post a reply to this message

On 7/4/2015 4:01 PM, clipka wrote:
> Am 04.07.2015 um 16:06 schrieb Stephen:
>> On 7/4/2015 2:03 PM, Doctor John wrote:
>>> Sings to the tune of the Star-spangled Banner:
>>
>>
>> NURSE!
>> The doctor has forgotten his dried frog pills. Again
>
> Maybe a healthy dose of "cruchy frog" chocolates might serve as a
> substitute...
>
> Fingers off "springy surprise" though.
>

No thank you. I will wait for the albatross on a stick.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Now if only you'd let other contries have theirs, too...

You're speaking to the US government, I hope. Many US Americans really don't
agree with what the government is doing abroad (or even at home).

Post a reply to this message

On Sat, 04 Jul 2015 14:21:01 -0400, Samuel Benge wrote:

> clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>> Now if only you'd let other contries have theirs, too...
> 
> You're speaking to the US government, I hope. Many US Americans really
> don't agree with what the government is doing abroad (or even at home).

Yes, indeed. :)

Jim



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

Am 04.07.2015 um 20:21 schrieb Samuel Benge:
> clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>> Now if only you'd let other contries have theirs, too...
>
> You're speaking to the US government, I hope.

To the USA. Not the people, not the government, but the entity as a 
whole, as a black box, if you will.

Post a reply to this message

On 5-7-2015 2:43, clipka wrote:
> Am 04.07.2015 um 20:21 schrieb Samuel Benge:
>> clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>>> Now if only you'd let other contries have theirs, too...
>>
>> You're speaking to the US government, I hope.
>
> To the USA. Not the people, not the government, but the entity as a
> whole, as a black box, if you will.
>

/black/ box?!

I am going to sue you for cube racism :-)

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On 2015-07-04 08:40 AM (-4), clipka wrote:
> Congratulations to your independence, USA!
>
> Now if only you'd let other contries have theirs, too...

Isn't Greece scheduled to declare its independence from Germany today?

Post a reply to this message

On 2015-07-04 09:03 AM (-4), Doctor John wrote:
> Sings to the tune of the Star-spangled Banner:

Sousa's "Stars and Stripes Forever" is a better match for those lyrics.

Post a reply to this message

On 07/04/2015 08:40 AM, clipka wrote:
> Congratulations to your independence, USA!
>
> Now if only you'd let other contries have theirs, too...

Oy.

I tried to compose a simple explanation for why my country is such a 
bullying control freak, but there always seemed to be another pertinent 
point to add, and my "simple" explanation started looking like a POV-Ray 
3.7 release candidate.

So I'll just leave you with two words:  Money.  Fear.

(I'm tempted to add fundamentalist Christianity.  However, my analysis 
is that the hyper-religious Americans--including politicians who are 
under the delusion that they run this country--are being punked by money 
via use of fear.)

Post a reply to this message

On 7/5/2015 8:57 AM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 2015-07-04 09:03 AM (-4), Doctor John wrote:
>> Sings to the tune of the Star-spangled Banner:
>
> Sousa's "Stars and Stripes Forever" is a better match for those lyrics.
>
Yes it is. I watched the video.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 7/5/2015 8:55 AM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 2015-07-04 08:40 AM (-4), clipka wrote:
>> Congratulations to your independence, USA!
>>
>> Now if only you'd let other contries have theirs, too...
>
> Isn't Greece scheduled to declare its independence from Germany today?
>

That's one way of putting it. :-)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 7/5/2015 9:18 AM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 07/04/2015 08:40 AM, clipka wrote:
>> Congratulations to your independence, USA!
>>
>> Now if only you'd let other contries have theirs, too...
>
> Oy.
>
> I tried to compose a simple explanation for why my country is such a
> bullying control freak, but there always seemed to be another pertinent
> point to add, and my "simple" explanation started looking like a POV-Ray
> 3.7 release candidate.
>
> So I'll just leave you with two words:  Money.  Fear.
>

Would you add Jingoism to your list?

> (I'm tempted to add fundamentalist Christianity.  However, my analysis
> is that the hyper-religious Americans--including politicians who are
> under the delusion that they run this country--are being punked by money
> via use of fear.)
>
I don't follow you. Who is doing what to whom?

You should get rid of home schooling. That is a bad thing IMO.
Discuss. ;-)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 05/07/15 08:57, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 2015-07-04 09:03 AM (-4), Doctor John wrote:
>> Sings to the tune of the Star-spangled Banner:
> 
> Sousa's "Stars and Stripes Forever" is a better match for those lyrics.
> 

I stand corrected. I'm always getting those two mixed up.

[wanders off singing God Save the Weasel to the tune of Pop Goes the Queen]
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

Post a reply to this message

On 05/07/15 09:29, Stephen wrote:
> 
> You should get rid of home schooling. That is a bad thing IMO.
> Discuss. ;-)
> 

How many words? ... and should we use both sides of the paper?

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

Post a reply to this message

On 7/5/2015 11:02 AM, Doctor John wrote:
> On 05/07/15 09:29, Stephen wrote:
>>
>> You should get rid of home schooling. That is a bad thing IMO.
>> Discuss. ;-)
>>
>
> How many words? ...

Until you get bored.

and should we use both sides of the paper?
>

No. Single side and double line space.




-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 5-7-2015 12:47, Stephen wrote:
> On 7/5/2015 11:02 AM, Doctor John wrote:
>> On 05/07/15 09:29, Stephen wrote:
>>>
>>> You should get rid of home schooling. That is a bad thing IMO.
>>> Discuss. ;-)
>>>
>>
>> How many words? ...
>
> Until you get bored.
>
> and should we use both sides of the paper?
>>
>
> No. Single side and double line space.
>

I

agree

.


-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On 5-7-2015 12:01, Doctor John wrote:
>
> [wanders off singing God Save the Weasel to the tune of Pop Goes the Queen]
>

I am all in favour with both notions.

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On 05/07/15 12:04, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 5-7-2015 12:47, Stephen wrote:
>> On 7/5/2015 11:02 AM, Doctor John wrote:
>>> On 05/07/15 09:29, Stephen wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You should get rid of home schooling. That is a bad thing IMO.
>>>> Discuss. ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> How many words? ...
>>
>> Until you get bored.
>>
>> and should we use both sides of the paper?
>>>
>>
>> No. Single side and double line space.
>>
> 
> I
> 
> agree
> 
> ..
> 
> 

This

is

getting

silly

J
o
h
n
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

Post a reply to this message

On 5-7-2015 13:12, Doctor John wrote:
> On 05/07/15 12:04, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 5-7-2015 12:47, Stephen wrote:
>>> On 7/5/2015 11:02 AM, Doctor John wrote:
>>>> On 05/07/15 09:29, Stephen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You should get rid of home schooling. That is a bad thing IMO.
>>>>> Discuss. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How many words? ...
>>>
>>> Until you get bored.
>>>
>>> and should we use both sides of the paper?
>>>>
>>>
>>> No. Single side and double line space.
>>>
>>
>> I
>>
>> agree
>>
>> ..
>>
>>
>
> This
>
> is
>
> getting
>
> silly
>
> J
> o
> h
> n
>

Quod

erat

demonstrandum

.

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Am 05.07.2015 um 09:55 schrieb Cousin Ricky:
> On 2015-07-04 08:40 AM (-4), clipka wrote:
>> Congratulations to your independence, USA!
>>
>> Now if only you'd let other contries have theirs, too...
>
> Isn't Greece scheduled to declare its independence from Germany today?

Oh, believe me - we'd happily let them.

It's when they /want/ something from us - like, say, borrow money - that 
we kindly ask them for a favor in return - like, say, make sure they can 
start paying it back in a few decades.

Wasn't that what ticked off the USA back then, too? No money without 
something in return?


In the international press the conflict might appear to be about Greece 
being held hostage by its current creditors on the basis of their 
current debts. It's not - it's primarily about Greece asking to be 
provided with /more/ borrowed money.

The EU had already agreed to those additional debts, /provided/ that 
Greece implement some reforms, which Greece had also agreed upon, but 
now refuses to implement. (Not that I'd blame them for that refusal - I 
think those reforms are useless at best - but their new government 
wasn't particularly smart about how they approached the EU about this.) 
So is it any surprise that the EU's reply is, "fine - but then you won't 
get the money either"?

Well, actually it's more like, "please, think it over - we're worried 
what your collapse might do to the Euro".

So at the bottom line it's really about Greece holding the Euro hostage 
and blackmailing their creditors into relaxing their demands for reforms 
attached to the promised further credits. And today the Greek people 
decide whether they want to set the hostage free.


That all said, I think Germany's darkest spot on their perfectly white 
clothes is not how they treat Greece about the current issues, but how 
they reacted to Greece's demands to make amends for the time /before/ 
they gained their independence from Germany some 70 years ago.

Post a reply to this message

On 7/5/2015 1:18 AM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> (I'm tempted to add fundamentalist Christianity.  However, my analysis
> is that the hyper-religious Americans--including politicians who are
> under the delusion that they run this country--are being punked by money
> via use of fear.)
>
This might be true, if a significant number of the money grubbers where 
not also Fundie Christians. While I don't doubt that a lot of them are 
the US flavor of Libertarian (I have mine, so F everyone else), there is 
a heavy cross over between them, with even most Libertarians espousing 
that they, "believe in the almighty god!", it, apparently, helps them a 
great deal in denying things like climate change, when their personal 
magic wizard either won't let things get bad enough, for them, that they 
need worry about silly shit like global weather patterns, and/or will 
"magic" any problems away for them, if they just push the right 
restrictive legislation through on all those damn liberals, and 
unbelievers (which is, of course, the same thing, after all).

So, no.. This is a bit like suggesting that medieval kings where being 
"duped" by the church - rather than being active participants in the 
mass delusion, out of mutual selfish interests.

The fear they reserve for gullible idiots who have no money, but, often, 
lots, and lots, of religion. Such people are not, after all, human 
enough to "understand" what such wondrous visionaries want to do for 
them, so they have to be scared into doing/allowing what is best for 
them. Duh!!

Should deport the lot of them, but every place that would take them is 
either being slowly overrun by Islam, or would actually go from being a 
third world nation, to an global threat, within less than a decade, if 
we did such a thing. And, as amusing as it would be for the two groups 
of fundie wackos to shoot each other, should we deport them to the 
places run by the same flavor of nitwits, the innocent caught in the 
cross fire don't deserve that.

-- 
Commander Vimes: "You take a bunch of people who don't seem any 
different from you and me, but when you add them all together you get 
this sort of huge raving maniac with national borders and an anthem."

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Am 05.07.2015 um 10:18 schrieb Cousin Ricky:

> So I'll just leave you with two words:  Money.  Fear.
>
> (I'm tempted to add fundamentalist Christianity.  However, my analysis
> is that the hyper-religious Americans--including politicians who are
> under the delusion that they run this country--are being punked by money
> via use of fear.)

Yup, "fear" is the one word that fundamentalist Christianity boils down to.

Post a reply to this message

On 7/5/2015 2:46 PM, clipka wrote:
> Am 05.07.2015 um 09:55 schrieb Cousin Ricky:
>> On 2015-07-04 08:40 AM (-4), clipka wrote:
>>> Congratulations to your independence, USA!
>>>
>>> Now if only you'd let other contries have theirs, too...
>>
>> Isn't Greece scheduled to declare its independence from Germany today?
>
> Oh, believe me - we'd happily let them.
>
> It's when they /want/ something from us - like, say, borrow money - that
> we kindly ask them for a favor in return - like, say, make sure they can
> start paying it back in a few decades.
>
> Wasn't that what ticked off the USA back then, too? No money without
> something in return?
>
>
> In the international press the conflict might appear to be about Greece
> being held hostage by its current creditors on the basis of their
> current debts. It's not - it's primarily about Greece asking to be
> provided with /more/ borrowed money.
>
> The EU had already agreed to those additional debts, /provided/ that
> Greece implement some reforms, which Greece had also agreed upon, but
> now refuses to implement. (Not that I'd blame them for that refusal - I
> think those reforms are useless at best - but their new government
> wasn't particularly smart about how they approached the EU about this.)
> So is it any surprise that the EU's reply is, "fine - but then you won't
> get the money either"?
>
> Well, actually it's more like, "please, think it over - we're worried
> what your collapse might do to the Euro".
>
> So at the bottom line it's really about Greece holding the Euro hostage
> and blackmailing their creditors into relaxing their demands for reforms
> attached to the promised further credits. And today the Greek people
> decide whether they want to set the hostage free.
>
>

All that is one point of view. Certainly the one we get from all the 
pundits.

When I've listened to the Greek politicians being interviewed. They all 
say that the current situation puts them in the position of loan shark 
victims. Well, that's what it sounds like to me, paraphrased.
I think the Euro zone banks should give Greece loans at a rate that can 
be paid back without grinding the faces of the proletariat, any further. 
Whoops!  <gets back down off soap box>
I don't see how setting up contracts that cannot be fulfilled is helping 
anyone.

> That all said, I think Germany's darkest spot on their perfectly white
> clothes is not how they treat Greece about the current issues, but how
> they reacted to Greece's demands to make amends for the time /before/
> they gained their independence from Germany some 70 years ago.
>

It just makes memories longer. :-(

In Crete. I've had the owner of a restaurant throw his arms around me. 
Then drag me into the kitchen to see what they were eating. Because I 
was an English tourist in a German tourist restaurant.
They have long memories.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> I tried to compose a simple explanation for why my country is such a
> bullying control freak, but there always seemed to be another pertinent
> point to add, and my "simple" explanation started looking like a POV-Ray
> 3.7 release candidate.
>
> So I'll just leave you with two words:  Money.  Fear.

Yep. Our politicians love money too much, and lobbying is somehow legal. Fear is
used to manipulate people into endorsing the govt.'s atrocious activities.

I think most US Americans know *something* is seriously wrong, but their concern
is often artfully diverted to focus on hyped-up threats, and away from the
termites chewing away the underlying framework.

Post a reply to this message

Am 05.07.2015 um 18:44 schrieb Stephen:

> When I've listened to the Greek politicians being interviewed. They all
> say that the current situation puts them in the position of loan shark
> victims. Well, that's what it sounds like to me, paraphrased.
> I think the Euro zone banks should give Greece loans at a rate that can
> be paid back without grinding the faces of the proletariat, any further.
> Whoops!  <gets back down off soap box>
> I don't see how setting up contracts that cannot be fulfilled is helping
> anyone.

Well, of course that's what the Greek politicians say in interviews. 
They have a people to please. I was quite optimistic about Tsipras and 
his team, but now it seems to me that he is - and always has been - more 
interested in becoming popular by pointing the finger at the creditors 
and shouting "foul" rathern than really tackling Greece's problems.

You are aware that the money the Greek government wants from the EU has 
ZERO interest for quite a while, and is only due to be paid back several 
decades from now? That's hardly loan shark practice.

(Now the short-term money the Greek /banks/ want, that's an entirely 
different story; but that money is not at the heart of the issue - 
that's just part of the fallout.)

Also, the EU isn't really breaking Greece's fingers. They're just 
demanding from Greece the equivalent of pulling itself together and 
getting a decent job (or at least what the EU thinks is a decent job).

So they're not in the position of loan shark victims - they're in the 
position of someone with a questionable lifestyle asking his relatives 
for money /again/ but refusing their demands for already agreed-upon 
steps to get his life together, and then pulling the victim card when 
they make a fuss about his change of mind.

And that picture fails to include Greece's threat to pull down the Euro 
with them.


Tsipras' strategy, from the start on, seems to have been to play chicken 
with the EU. Riding a scooter against a pick-up truck, which may or may 
not be carrying some highly flammable load.

Bad idea. Even /if/ the truck is driving on the wrong side of the road.

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 09:29:59 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> You should get rid of home schooling. That is a bad thing IMO.
> Discuss. ;-)

We home schooled our son for the last 5 years or so of his school career.

So, no, I disagree. :)

He passed his GED with top marks, went to uni, was on the deans' list 
most of the time he was there, and graduated with honours - from the 
University of Utah with a degree in Anthropology.

The Christian fundamentalists who homeschool give homeschooling a bad rap 
in the US.  There are people who do it properly - and in our case, the 
reason we did it was because we ultimately had little choice but to step 
up and home school him.

He was in a private school for highly intelligent students with learning 
disabilities (the two go together a lot more often than one might think). 
This is a kid (well, an adult, now) with a near photographic memory - 
scored the highest on the test given by the admitting psychologist in the 
school (yes, they test the kids before admitting them to the school in 
question).  Most of his classmates had mild to severe ADD/ADHD (again, 
diagnosed, not just "oh, this kid is fidgety so let's give him some drugs 
to calm him down".)

He was enrolled there for 5 years or so.  The school had an outdoor 
program that was meant to offset the lack of any significant athletic 
program (not enough students in any given grade or group of grades even 
for team sports).  So the school required a lot of teamwork in the form 
of camping activities and other outdoors stuff.

Except the program wasn't run with safety in mind - and on more than one 
occasion, students (and staff) ended up in the hospital because the staff 
weren't properly trained in first aid for the difficulty of activities 
they were engaged in.

So we pulled him out of the school, right before the fall term.

Our choices were:

1. Re-enroll him in public school (which doesn't mean the same thing in 
the US as it does in the UK), at his current grade level, which he had 
already been through in his advanced classes.

2. Re-enroll him in public school at a grade level appropriate to his 
knowledge and skills (which creates social problems for kids who do that 
- my wife and I both saw that up close).

3. Continue his education ourselves.

We chose option 3.

Jim

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

On 7/5/2015 9:35 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 09:29:59 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>> You should get rid of home schooling. That is a bad thing IMO.
>> Discuss. ;-)
>
> We home schooled our son for the last 5 years or so of his school career.
>
> So, no, I disagree. :)
>
> He passed his GED with top marks, went to uni, was on the deans' list
> most of the time he was there, and graduated with honours - from the
> University of Utah with a degree in Anthropology.
>
> The Christian fundamentalists who homeschool give homeschooling a bad rap
> in the US.

They certainly do. From what I've read. There is no requirement for the 
children to be assessed, by many states. That is dereliction of duty, in 
my book.

> There are people who do it properly - and in our case,

I won't ask who rattled your cage. Me obviously. :-)

And just as obviously there need to be exceptions depending on 
circumstances. After all, there are some remote isolated communities in 
all of that land. But Weirdos and religious throwbacks should not have 
the right to brainwash more generations of children. And that goes for 
Europe and the UK too.


the
> reason we did it was because we ultimately had little choice but to step
> up and home school him.
>

It sounds like you made the right choice. It is not something I would 
like to take the responsibility for. Too much like hard work. :-)


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 7/5/2015 9:09 PM, clipka wrote:
> Am 05.07.2015 um 18:44 schrieb Stephen:
>
>> When I've listened to the Greek politicians being interviewed. They all
>> say that the current situation puts them in the position of loan shark
>> victims. Well, that's what it sounds like to me, paraphrased.
>> I think the Euro zone banks should give Greece loans at a rate that can
>> be paid back without grinding the faces of the proletariat, any further.
>> Whoops!  <gets back down off soap box>
>> I don't see how setting up contracts that cannot be fulfilled is helping
>> anyone.
>
> Well, of course that's what the Greek politicians say in interviews.
> They have a people to please. I was quite optimistic about Tsipras and
> his team, but now it seems to me that he is - and always has been - more
> interested in becoming popular by pointing the finger at the creditors
> and shouting "foul" rathern than really tackling Greece's problems.
>
> You are aware that the money the Greek government wants from the EU has
> ZERO interest for quite a while, and is only due to be paid back several
> decades from now? That's hardly loan shark practice.
>

No I wasn't. I was probably only listening with half an ear. I thought I 
heard that their loans are more expensive because of their credit 
rating. Hardly indeed.


>
> Also, the EU isn't really breaking Greece's fingers. They're just
> demanding from Greece the equivalent of pulling itself together and
> getting a decent job (or at least what the EU thinks is a decent job).
>

I don't think that is a valid analogy, comparing a whole country to one 
individual. As the song goes.
It's the rich that gets the pleasure and the poor what gets the blame.


> So they're not in the position of loan shark victims -

Okay, I was wrong. Write it in your diary. ;-)

>
> And that picture fails to include Greece's threat to pull down the Euro
> with them.
>
>

There is something wrong with the Euro then. If one dodgy member 
removing its dodgyness, brings it down.

> Tsipras' strategy, from the start on, seems to have been to play chicken
> with the EU. Riding a scooter against a pick-up truck, which may or may
> not be carrying some highly flammable load.
>
> Bad idea. Even /if/ the truck is driving on the wrong side of the road.

Well, there are a few countries that are quite successful at that. 
(Pointing to elbows at North Korea.)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 22:23:00 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 7/5/2015 9:35 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 09:29:59 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> You should get rid of home schooling. That is a bad thing IMO.
>>> Discuss. ;-)
>>
>> We home schooled our son for the last 5 years or so of his school
>> career.
>>
>> So, no, I disagree. :)
>>
>> He passed his GED with top marks, went to uni, was on the deans' list
>> most of the time he was there, and graduated with honours - from the
>> University of Utah with a degree in Anthropology.
>>
>> The Christian fundamentalists who homeschool give homeschooling a bad
>> rap in the US.
> 
> They certainly do. From what I've read. There is no requirement for the
> children to be assessed, by many states. That is dereliction of duty, in
> my book.

I agree. There is a huge push against assessing children in the US in 
general, not just in the case of homeschooling, either.  You want some 
entertaining reading, read up on the pushback against "Common Core" 
standards.

>> There are people who do it properly - and in our case,
> 
> I won't ask who rattled your cage. Me obviously. :-)

;)

> And just as obviously there need to be exceptions depending on
> circumstances. After all, there are some remote isolated communities in
> all of that land. But Weirdos and religious throwbacks should not have
> the right to brainwash more generations of children. And that goes for
> Europe and the UK too.

For me, the issue is more involved than that.  I think children should 
have the right to be free from religious indoctrination - if they choose 
a religion after weighing evidence, fine (assuming they're old enough to 
be capable of making that decision).  The social pressure is incredible, 
though, to conform by being religious - but of course, you have to have 
the *right* religious beliefs, too.

> the
>> reason we did it was because we ultimately had little choice but to
>> step up and home school him.
>>
>>
> It sounds like you made the right choice. It is not something I would
> like to take the responsibility for. Too much like hard work. :-)

It was a lot of work all around.  His science education was mostly 
through volunteering at an aviary - he's a very hands-on kid - so biology 
is the science he's strongest with.

But he's a very fast kinesthetic learner. :)

Jim



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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On 7/5/2015 11:05 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 22:23:00 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>

>>
>> They certainly do. From what I've read. There is no requirement for the
>> children to be assessed, by many states. That is dereliction of duty, in
>> my book.
>
> I agree. There is a huge push against assessing children in the US in
> general, not just in the case of homeschooling, either.  You want some
> entertaining reading, read up on the pushback against "Common Core"
> standards.
>

My wife thanks you. That will keep her occupied for hours. I thank you. :-)


>
> For me, the issue is more involved than that.  I think children should
> have the right to be free from religious indoctrination

100% with you on that.


  - if they choose
> a religion after weighing evidence, fine (assuming they're old enough to
> be capable of making that decision).  The social pressure is incredible,
> though, to conform by being religious

I remember it when I was a child. That has gone now in the UK. :-)
When I was in Nigeria. I got e-mails telling me that I was going to 
Hell. Because I was not a believer. I was glad to not be part of her 
community.


- but of course, you have to have
> the *right* religious beliefs, too.
>
Yes. There was a little bit of that. Where I grew up.


>
> But he's a very fast kinesthetic learner. :)
>

I've not heard that phrase. It could be describing me. :-)


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 18:35:08 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 7/5/2015 11:05 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 22:23:00 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>
> 
>>> They certainly do. From what I've read. There is no requirement for
>>> the children to be assessed, by many states. That is dereliction of
>>> duty, in my book.
>>
>> I agree. There is a huge push against assessing children in the US in
>> general, not just in the case of homeschooling, either.  You want some
>> entertaining reading, read up on the pushback against "Common Core"
>> standards.
>>
>>
> My wife thanks you. That will keep her occupied for hours. I thank you.
> :-)

LOL

>> For me, the issue is more involved than that.  I think children should
>> have the right to be free from religious indoctrination
> 
> 100% with you on that.

I can't say I'm surprised. :)

>   - if they choose
>> a religion after weighing evidence, fine (assuming they're old enough
>> to be capable of making that decision).  The social pressure is
>> incredible,
>> though, to conform by being religious
> 
> I remember it when I was a child. That has gone now in the UK. :-)
> When I was in Nigeria. I got e-mails telling me that I was going to
> Hell. Because I was not a believer. I was glad to not be part of her
> community.

Yeah, there are places on the planet that I won't be visiting.

> - but of course, you have to have
>> the *right* religious beliefs, too.
>>
> Yes. There was a little bit of that. Where I grew up.

I wish I could say I was surprised by that, but I'm not.

>> But he's a very fast kinesthetic learner. :)
>>
>>
> I've not heard that phrase. It could be describing me. :-)

It's a fancy word that means "hands-on" - it's how I also learn the 
best.  Give me a book, I might learn it.  Let me work in the lab, though, 
and I'll have it very quickly.

Some people are visual learners (Ken is that as well - obviously with his 
near photographic memory), some are auditory learners, some are 
kinesthetic - but most people benefit from a combination of approaches.  
Designing training materials is easier when you understand how the 
audience learns, or how to adapt your delivery to the needs of the 
student.

One of the myriad of things outside any area of study I had in school 
that I've picked up over the years. :)

Jim
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

On 7/7/2015 5:45 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 18:35:08 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>

>>
>> I remember it when I was a child. That has gone now in the UK. :-)
>> When I was in Nigeria. I got e-mails telling me that I was going to
>> Hell. Because I was not a believer. I was glad to not be part of her
>> community.
>
> Yeah, there are places on the planet that I won't be visiting.
>

I was desperate for work. But I would sell my granny* not to go back. :-)
I keep getting opportunities in the Middle East. Needless to say that is 
a no go situation.


>> - but of course, you have to have
>>> the *right* religious beliefs, too.
>>>
>> Yes. There was a little bit of that. Where I grew up.
>
> I wish I could say I was surprised by that, but I'm not.
>

The difference is, atheists and other religions were non combatants.

>>> But he's a very fast kinesthetic learner. :)
>>>
>>>
>> I've not heard that phrase. It could be describing me. :-)
>
> It's a fancy word that means "hands-on" - it's how I also learn the
> best.  Give me a book, I might learn it.  Let me work in the lab, though,
> and I'll have it very quickly.
>
> Some people are visual learners (Ken is that as well - obviously with his
> near photographic memory), some are auditory learners, some are
> kinesthetic - but most people benefit from a combination of approaches.
> Designing training materials is easier when you understand how the
> audience learns, or how to adapt your delivery to the needs of the
> student.
>

I read the Wiki article again and auditory learner describes me to a Tee.


> One of the myriad of things outside any area of study I had in school
> that I've picked up over the years. :)
>
Mostly school boards are well minded. But there are more things in 
Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in their philosophies.


*
I have just had a sudden thought. I've worked at the three points of the 
slave triangle; Glasgow, West Africa and Jamaica. I am not too sure that 
I am comfortable about that. :-(


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 07 Jul 2015 07:22:50 +0100, Stephen wrote:

>>> I remember it when I was a child. That has gone now in the UK. :-)
>>> When I was in Nigeria. I got e-mails telling me that I was going to
>>> Hell. Because I was not a believer. I was glad to not be part of her
>>> community.
>>
>> Yeah, there are places on the planet that I won't be visiting.
>>
> I was desperate for work. But I would sell my granny* not to go back.
> :-)
> I keep getting opportunities in the Middle East. Needless to say that is
> a no go situation.

I've got a couple friends who spent some time doing business in that part 
of the world - it can be pretty hairy.  I know one who has multiple 
passports just so various governments don't see the stamps from places 
they don't want to see on a passport.

Another friend spent time working for UNHCR - going into war zones to set 
up networks for the organization; when I first met her, she talked about 
having coworkers who were killed doing that job.  Nasty business - she's 
no longer in it.

>>> - but of course, you have to have
>>>> the *right* religious beliefs, too.
>>>>
>>> Yes. There was a little bit of that. Where I grew up.
>>
>> I wish I could say I was surprised by that, but I'm not.
>>
>>
> The difference is, atheists and other religions were non combatants.

That makes a difference, yes.

>>>> But he's a very fast kinesthetic learner. :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I've not heard that phrase. It could be describing me. :-)
>>
>> It's a fancy word that means "hands-on" - it's how I also learn the
>> best.  Give me a book, I might learn it.  Let me work in the lab,
>> though,
>> and I'll have it very quickly.
>>
>> Some people are visual learners (Ken is that as well - obviously with
>> his near photographic memory), some are auditory learners, some are
>> kinesthetic - but most people benefit from a combination of approaches.
>> Designing training materials is easier when you understand how the
>> audience learns, or how to adapt your delivery to the needs of the
>> student.
>>
>>
> I read the Wiki article again and auditory learner describes me to a
> Tee.

:)

>> One of the myriad of things outside any area of study I had in school
>> that I've picked up over the years. :)
>>
> Mostly school boards are well minded. But there are more things in
> Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in their philosophies.

Yep. The thing for me is that they tend not to make decisions out of 
malice - and that helps.  It doesn't excuse wrong-headed decisions, but 
it does help one understand them, and that can provide some common ground 
for a discussion.

> *
> I have just had a sudden thought. I've worked at the three points of the
> slave triangle; Glasgow, West Africa and Jamaica. I am not too sure that
> I am comfortable about that. :-(

Hrm....

Jim



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

On 7/6/2015 11:22 PM, Stephen wrote:
>> One of the myriad of things outside any area of study I had in school
>> that I've picked up over the years. :)
>>
> Mostly school boards are well minded. But there are more things in
> Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in their philosophies.
>
>

Well minded? Elected, not required to have teaching credentials, picked 
based on local ideology and politics, often, in recent years, also 
heavily dependent on the theory that schools are like factories, or 
other sorts of business, rather than a service (not that being a service 
would save them from having corners cut, and shoddy product exchanged in 
favor of what is best for the customer). So.. you have people with no 
skill, no knowledge, possibly/probably ideologically driven, and, if you 
are lucky, the combination will be something other than, "religious, 
ignorant, science denying, micromanaging, plutocrats, who think that the 
schools, like health care, the EPA, social security, and anything else 
'public' is a waste of money", and that, "Private institutions would 
automatically do better."

Yeah.. I am a real believer in the idea that the "school boards" are the 
ones who are "well minded" in this equation...

As to the bad name for home schooling.. To argue that its a legitimate 
solution is a bit like arguing, from the privileged status of someone 
living in Florida, that one shouldn't bother buying a coat in Alaska. 
Its only a valid solution for the small percentage of people who have 
the time, the resources, or the skill, necessary to do it correctly. If 
any one of these is lacking, its a failure. And, the most dangerous one 
to be "missing" is "resources", because if one does not know enough, 
themselves, to a) find, b) vet, and c) acquire said resources, those 
available, and most directly accessible, via "home schooling" sources 
are nearly universally from the "Christian Fundamentalist" category, or 
equally questionable sources, filled with misinformation, and delusional 
nonsense.

I would "love" to be able to say that home schooling was a viable option 
for anyone except those with the rare combination of traits to both 
provide it, and do so without being duped by those peddling bad 
information. But, since there is no official, well controlled, reliable, 
and recognized "source" for materials, nor is it even possible for 
everyone that might benefit from it to receive such education, the net 
result is that **most** of those receiving such are doing so with 
invalid materials, chosen by those who either do not know they are 
useless, or, worse, chose it intentionally, because they believe it to 
be accurate. I.e., one the whole, it has the reputation it does for 
entirely good reasons, regardless of the much rarer exceptions.

-- 
Commander Vimes: "You take a bunch of people who don't seem any 
different from you and me, but when you add them all together you get 
this sort of huge raving maniac with national borders and an anthem."

Post a reply to this message

Excuse me for top posting.

 > Well minded?

A polite lie. It doesn't do to be overly critical, old chap. :-)
Ever since Jeannie C. Riley gave us the low down on Harper Valley PTA. I 
have had my suspicions of the American Education system. :-)

It must be galling to see the takeover of such important institutions by 
fundamentalists. I wonder when they will start behaving like the...
(Guess who, I mean. They are in the news a lot recently.)


On 7/8/2015 4:56 AM, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> On 7/6/2015 11:22 PM, Stephen wrote:
>>> One of the myriad of things outside any area of study I had in school
>>> that I've picked up over the years. :)
>>>
>> Mostly school boards are well minded. But there are more things in
>> Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in their philosophies.
>>
>>
>
> Well minded? Elected, not required to have teaching credentials, picked
> based on local ideology and politics, often, in recent years, also
> heavily dependent on the theory that schools are like factories, or
> other sorts of business, rather than a service (not that being a service
> would save them from having corners cut, and shoddy product exchanged in
> favor of what is best for the customer). So.. you have people with no
> skill, no knowledge, possibly/probably ideologically driven, and, if you
> are lucky, the combination will be something other than, "religious,
> ignorant, science denying, micromanaging, plutocrats, who think that the
> schools, like health care, the EPA, social security, and anything else
> 'public' is a waste of money", and that, "Private institutions would
> automatically do better."
>
> Yeah.. I am a real believer in the idea that the "school boards" are the
> ones who are "well minded" in this equation...
>
> As to the bad name for home schooling.. To argue that its a legitimate
> solution is a bit like arguing, from the privileged status of someone
> living in Florida, that one shouldn't bother buying a coat in Alaska.
> Its only a valid solution for the small percentage of people who have
> the time, the resources, or the skill, necessary to do it correctly. If
> any one of these is lacking, its a failure. And, the most dangerous one
> to be "missing" is "resources", because if one does not know enough,
> themselves, to a) find, b) vet, and c) acquire said resources, those
> available, and most directly accessible, via "home schooling" sources
> are nearly universally from the "Christian Fundamentalist" category, or
> equally questionable sources, filled with misinformation, and delusional
> nonsense.
>
> I would "love" to be able to say that home schooling was a viable option
> for anyone except those with the rare combination of traits to both
> provide it, and do so without being duped by those peddling bad
> information. But, since there is no official, well controlled, reliable,
> and recognized "source" for materials, nor is it even possible for
> everyone that might benefit from it to receive such education, the net
> result is that **most** of those receiving such are doing so with
> invalid materials, chosen by those who either do not know they are
> useless, or, worse, chose it intentionally, because they believe it to
> be accurate. I.e., one the whole, it has the reputation it does for
> entirely good reasons, regardless of the much rarer exceptions.
>


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 7/7/2015 5:39 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:

> Hrm....
>


On the bright side. Clue starts again, Monday.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 09 Jul 2015 17:48:42 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 7/7/2015 5:39 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> Hrm....
>>
>>
> 
> On the bright side. Clue starts again, Monday.

Awesome, I had been looking, but the officially unofficial site hasn't 
had dates on it the last few times we checked.

Jim



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

On 7/9/2015 6:03 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Jul 2015 17:48:42 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>> On 7/7/2015 5:39 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>
>>> Hrm....
>>>
>>>
>>
>> On the bright side. Clue starts again, Monday.
>
> Awesome, I had been looking, but the officially unofficial site hasn't
> had dates on it the last few times we checked.
>

I heard it on the radio, today.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message