Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> And Faith is not something you can instil or teach.

Actually it is: Just brainwash the person since they are little.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> > And Faith is not something you can instil or teach.
>
> Actually it is: Just brainwash the person since they are little.
>
> --
>                                                           - Warp

I was hoping no one would notice that. :-)
It is the basis of cults.

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On 7/30/2014 3:32 AM, Stephen wrote:
> Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
>>> And Faith is not something you can instil or teach.
>>
>> Actually it is: Just brainwash the person since they are little.
>>
>> --
>>                                                            - Warp
>
> I was hoping no one would notice that. :-)
> It is the basis of cults.
>
>
Hmm. More like the basis of "all" religions. You will no more believe in 
any religion, without exposure to it, than you would spontaneously 
develop a belief in Santa Claus, while living in the Amazon jungle. But, 
you would pick up the local belief in, "spirits of the forest", but not, 
from what I remember of those tribes, some idea of one great spirit, in 
charge of it all.

-- 
Commander Vimes: "You take a bunch of people who don't seem any 
different from you and me, but when you add them all together you get 
this sort of huge raving maniac with national borders and an anthem."

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On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 03:39:54 -0400, Warp wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> Yep.  My theory is that they're losing, and they know it - so they're
>> fighting harder.  It's only a matter of time, but until they have
>> finally "lost" (which generally means that they get treated like
>> everyone else rather than being treated "specially"), we're going to
>> have a lot of this kind of nonsense going on.
> 
> I find it somewhat ironic that for those American Christians "losing"
> means becoming a sensible free modern society with equal rights that
> cares about the wellbeing of its citizens...

You're not the only one....I saw a comic recently that summed it up 
nicely as the "loss" being "everyone else gets treated equally".

Jim



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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On Mon, 28 Jul 2014 14:11:25 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:

> But.. We can't have a real national ID, because it would like.. let the
> government screw us even more, or like be the, "mark of the beast", or
> something. Sigh...

Yeah, I know.  States' rights and all that - even though it's an 
*inconvenience* for the citizens to have to deal with that stuff.  We 
have freedom of movement inside the country, unless you can't afford to 
replace a driver's license or other documentation you have to have (photo 
ID of any sort, really).

Jim



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 19:57:16 +0100, Stephen wrote:

>>> True. But that is how we are distracted.
>>
>> It happens.  Squirrel! ;)
>>
>>
> You don't catch me like that again.

We'll see. :)

>> Yep.  As long as they're not affecting the lives of others around them
>> in a negative way, I generally don't care.  The problem is that a lot
>> of these nitwits *do* affect the lives of others around them in a
>> negative way - like insisting that science classes "teach the
>> controversy" of evolution vs. creationism - as if creationism is
>> anything like science.
>>
> Where?

Pick a state in the southeastern US.  Or Texas.  Seriously, the Texas 
Board of Education decides textbook standards for the entire country, 
because of the number of students they have.  So when they get a bunch of 
whackadoodle creationist types on their BoE who say that creationism is 
science and who won't approve textbooks that don't praise God, the entire 
country suffers with crap textbooks that teach non-science.

>> Or that anyone other than nitwits like Ken Ham think that creationism
>> *is* a valid theory of how the world works, especially young earth
>> creationism.
>>
>> If they want to believe that, fine.  But when they're people who sit on
>> the Texas Board of Education (which for reasons of scale ends up
>> deciding what's in science textbooks across the United States), then I
>> have a HUGE problem with them.
>>
>>
> I've given up reading about it.
> I sympathise but what can you do when you see militant fundamentalist
> "Christians" to the west and militant fundamentalist "Muslims" to the
> east. Even Buddhists are killing people.

Yeah, it makes things kinda difficult.  I'm glad K was able to get a real 
education and can recognise this kind of BS a mile away.

>>> On the other hand. The mythology opens up boundless opportunity for
>>> stories.
>>
>> True, and mythology recognized as mythology is a pretty cool thing. 
>> But I wouldn't dream of thinking that the Arthurian mythos are a basis
>> for defining a morality.
> 
> How about the Druids and Wiccan? Religions made up in Victorian times, I
> think.

I think the Druids go back farther, would have to check the books.  I 
passed through a Wiccan phase before going full Atheist, but I don't 
remember a lot of the specifics about when/where stuff happened.

>> They're pretty good, especially when retold by Monty Python (just came
>> back from watching that in the cinema, in fact). :)
>>
>>
> Bad memories that one for me. While listening to the album and "tuning
> in". A friend had a bad time. I had to talk them down for about six
> hours with insects crawling out of the walls. Bummer!
> On the bright side. It wasn't me. :-)

Good thing it wasn't you, but ... album?  OK, now I'm puzzled.

>>> Have you read any of Charles Stross's Laundry series?
>>
>> I haven't, but I think I might have to. :)
>>
>>
> Where?

If I can get a digital copy, on my eReader.

>>> Where his protagonist is not the BOFH but the Sysop fighting the
>>> forces from Hell. Quite funny and the Tech bits don't jar.
>>
>> *Definitely* have to check it out. :)
>>
>>
> You do. If you go to his website http://www.antipope.org/
> Fun name, what!
> There is some free stuff there. His early Hard SF is recommended.

Cool - will add it to my list.

>> You are?  It's not really coming through. ;)
>>
>>
> Good! I might get away with it for a few more years yet. ;-)

LOL

> Where! Tell Me! Tell Me. Where?

OK, now I'm confused again.  Probably because I've lost the thread - a 
week in Vancouver, BC will do that to you. :)

Jim



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 19:32:55 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 28/07/2014 00:28, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> IMO That is what organised religion is all about. Keeping the masses
>>> in
>>> >their place.
>> Yep.
>>
>> Which is why my reaction these days to people who say they believe is
>> generally one of surprise, especially people whom I consider to be
>> intelligent.
> 
> 
> I don't think that you can equate intelligence with "not believing".
> Believing has to do with Faith. And Faith is not something you can
> instil or teach. It is not logical you either have it or you don't and I
> for one don't.

I don't think it's an equation of belief and intelligence - but belief 
implies a willingness (or even a desire) to not think of something 
rationally and to not examine it too closely.

That's not a trait I associate with people who are intelligent.

Jim
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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On 23/07/2014 12:37, James Holsenback wrote:
> Sad state of affairs ... don't you think?

You are not alone.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28616115


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 08/04/2014 05:55 AM, Stephen wrote:
> On 23/07/2014 12:37, James Holsenback wrote:
>> Sad state of affairs ... don't you think?
>
> You are not alone.
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28616115
>
>

Hmmmm ... lord have mercy on /their/ souls (pun intended)

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Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28616115

"She said many were worried about being ostracised or were even scared
of violence if they revealed they did not believe in God."

Ah, the peaceful, tolerant, loving American Christians...

I think they have misunderstood what "turn the other cheek" means.
It doesn't mean "hit the unbeliever in the cheek, then turn their
other cheek and hit it as well".

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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