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It is a Win8 machine.
I hate Win8
Does anyone know of a "how to do things in Win8 that was easy in Win7",
tutorial?
--
Regards
Stephen
I solemnly promise to kick the next angle, I see.
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On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 15:35:41 +0100, Stephen wrote:
> It is a Win8 machine.
>
> I hate Win8
>
> Does anyone know of a "how to do things in Win8 that was easy in Win7",
> tutorial?
fdisk
Install openSUSE. ;)
...
On a more serious note...
Is it 8.0 or 8.1? 8.1 is /supposed/ to be better (I haven't looked at
8.1 myself yet). Also, ISTR that Microsoft may have allowed Win8
customers to install Win7 instead if they wanted, though I might be
remembering that incorrectly.
Jim
--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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On 06/04/2014 16:16, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 15:35:41 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>> It is a Win8 machine.
>>
>> I hate Win8
>>
>> Does anyone know of a "how to do things in Win8 that was easy in Win7",
>> tutorial?
>
> fdisk
>
The thought has crossed my mind.
> Install openSUSE. ;)
>
I'm having enough trouble with a real OS. I don't want one that has more
colours than a rainbow pub. Or changes more often than I change my
underwear. ;-)
> ....
>
> On a more serious note...
>
^_^
> Is it 8.0 or 8.1?
8.1
> 8.1 is /supposed/ to be better (I haven't looked at
> 8.1 myself yet).
Don't bother.
Also, ISTR that Microsoft may have allowed Win8
> customers to install Win7 instead if they wanted, though I might be
> remembering that incorrectly.
>
If that is true, it is an option. Although it does have some good
points. Task manager is better and.. (I'll get back to you on the rest.)
It took me forever (at least an hour to download a citrix plugin for ie
11 as... I don't know why "as". Somehow it was not happy using my
hotmail address to verify who I was. Even though it is 15 years old. I
have now lost count of my emails and logons). The machine is a bit
faster than my old one.
Benchmarks:
Old m/c
8 CPU
00:9:01
CPU time used: kernel 0.95 seconds, user 3893.77 seconds, total 3894.72
seconds.
Elapsed time 541.28 seconds, CPU vs elapsed time ratio 7.20.
Render averaged 484.31 PPS (67.31 PPS CPU time) over 262144 pixels using
8 thread(s).
New one:
1CPU
00:15:10
CPU time used: kernel 0.09 seconds, user 909.73 seconds, total 909.83
seconds.
Elapsed time 910.65 seconds.
Render averaged 287.87 PPS (288.12 PPS CPU time) over 262144 pixels
using 8 thread(s).
8 CPU
00:3:39
CPU time used: kernel 0.25 seconds, user 1716.91 seconds, total 1717.16
seconds.
Elapsed time 219.04 seconds, CPU vs elapsed time ratio 7.84.
Render averaged 1196.81 PPS (152.66 PPS CPU time) over 262144 pixels
using 8 thread(s).
I don't quite understand the figures though.
I am glad that I know a few k/board shortcuts or I would not be able to
do anything.
Enough moaning. I don't want to be an old fuddy duddy. Even though I am.
--
Regards
Stephen
I solemnly promise to kick the next angle, I see.
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On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 21:27:49 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>> Does anyone know of a "how to do things in Win8 that was easy in
>>> Win7",
>>> tutorial?
>>
>> fdisk
>>
>>
> The thought has crossed my mind.
:)
>> Install openSUSE. ;)
>>
>>
> I'm having enough trouble with a real OS. I don't want one that has more
> colours than a rainbow pub. Or changes more often than I change my
> underwear. ;-)
13.1 is a long term support release, so it won't need to be updated after
the end of the regular 18-month support cycle (other than being pointed
at the "Evergreen" repositories that make it an LTS release).
>> On a more serious note...
>>
>>
> ^_^
I thought you'd like that. :)
>> 8.1 is /supposed/ to be better (I haven't looked at 8.1 myself yet).
>
> Don't bother.
That bad, huh?
> Also, ISTR that Microsoft may have allowed Win8
>> customers to install Win7 instead if they wanted, though I might be
>> remembering that incorrectly.
>>
> If that is true, it is an option. Although it does have some good
> points. Task manager is better and.. (I'll get back to you on the rest.)
LOL
> It took me forever (at least an hour to download a citrix plugin for ie
> 11 as... I don't know why "as". Somehow it was not happy using my
> hotmail address to verify who I was. Even though it is 15 years old. I
> have now lost count of my emails and logons). The machine is a bit
> faster than my old one.
> Benchmarks:
>
> Old m/c
>
> 8 CPU 00:9:01
>
> CPU time used: kernel 0.95 seconds, user 3893.77 seconds, total 3894.72
> seconds.
> Elapsed time 541.28 seconds, CPU vs elapsed time ratio 7.20.
> Render averaged 484.31 PPS (67.31 PPS CPU time) over 262144 pixels using
> 8 thread(s).
>
> New one:
>
> 1CPU 00:15:10 CPU time used: kernel 0.09 seconds, user 909.73 seconds,
> total 909.83 seconds.
> Elapsed time 910.65 seconds.
> Render averaged 287.87 PPS (288.12 PPS CPU time) over 262144 pixels
> using 8 thread(s).
>
> 8 CPU 00:3:39 CPU time used: kernel 0.25 seconds, user 1716.91 seconds,
> total 1717.16 seconds.
> Elapsed time 219.04 seconds, CPU vs elapsed time ratio 7.84.
> Render averaged 1196.81 PPS (152.66 PPS CPU time) over 262144 pixels
> using 8 thread(s).
>
> I don't quite understand the figures though.
>
> I am glad that I know a few k/board shortcuts or I would not be able to
> do anything.
>
> Enough moaning. I don't want to be an old fuddy duddy. Even though I am.
I know the feeling. Not quite as fuddy or duddy, (you can have the crown
for fuddiness and for duddiness for now). I'm starting a new contract
that runs through July 1 tomorrow, and the client is sending me a laptop
- could be Windows, could be a Mac. I can work with either (the company
uses Macs almost exclusively), but I definitely prefer running Linux on
my systems.
Jim
--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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On 04/06/2014 10:35 AM, Stephen wrote:
> It is a Win8 machine.
you have my sympathies
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On 07/04/2014 5:32 PM, James Holsenback wrote:
> On 04/06/2014 10:35 AM, Stephen wrote:
>> It is a Win8 machine.
>
> you have my sympathies
>
After speaking to our IT department and with a few Quid pro quo. I may
have a solution. ;-)
--
Regards
Stephen
I solemnly promise to kick the next angle, I see.
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On 07/04/2014 2:12 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> 13.1 is a long term support release, so it won't need to be updated after
> the end of the regular 18-month support cycle (other than being pointed
> at the "Evergreen" repositories that make it an LTS release).
>
Run that by me again. In English. :-P
>> >Don't bother.
> That bad, huh?
>
No, but if you have the option...
I don't want my PC/Laptop to pretend it is an android device.
>> >Enough moaning. I don't want to be an old fuddy duddy. Even though I am.
> I know the feeling. Not quite as fuddy or duddy, (you can have the crown
> for fuddiness and for duddiness for now).
I don't mind which castle I'm king of. :-)
Actually, I play on the fact that I am old. That and the stereotypical
Jock (means Scot for those other Americans) is a born enjineer. ;-)
Hoots mon! Ye daena ken whit is wis like when 9600 baud wis state o' the
art. ;-)
> I'm starting a new contract
> that runs through July 1 tomorrow,
Congrats.
> and the client is sending me a laptop
> - could be Windows, could be a Mac. I can work with either (the company
> uses Macs almost exclusively), but I definitely prefer running Linux on
> my systems.
The last time I used or repaired a Mac was 20 years ago.
A bit longer for Unix.
--
Regards
Stephen
I solemnly promise to kick the next angle, I see.
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>>> >Don't bother.
>> That bad, huh?
>>
>
> No, but if you have the option...
>
> I don't want my PC/Laptop to pretend it is an android device.
This appears to be the way everything is heading, though.
When we updated all our stuff to OpenSUSE 12.2, we found that it comes
with GNOME 3, which is basically just like GNOME 2, except designed to
only work on a Tablet. So that means only one window visible at once
(unless you go out of your way to force it to not do that for each
window you open), lots of scrolly menus, and half the buttons missing.
It's astonishing how many of the plugins for GNOME 3 are there to add
back all the features they took out. Stuff like a minimise button on the
windows, a list of open windows (without having to open a context menu
to see it), program launch icons on the main screen (again, without
having to open a context menu to get at them), and so on.
Of course, any time anyone changes anything, half the userbase wants it
back the way it was. But no, the astonishing thing is the number of
plugins that have been written given that NOT ONE SINGLE SHRED OF
DOCUMENTATION exists for how to do this. (Did I mention that the entire
shell is now written in JavaScript, and a "plugin" is nothing other than
JavaScript for live-patching the running shell??)
I suppose it's inevitable; the mobile device market is larger than the
dekstop market can ever hope to be. It is thus for more profitable. But
as a computer expert who wants to actually, you know, USE A COMPUTER
(and not just surf Facebook), I think all this terribly annoying...
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Got one these days for my daughter as well, a laptop. Most probably, the last
desktop computing device I'm buying. I have consoles for games and do pretty
much everything else on my android phone - of course, at work I still use a
handy "mainframe".
I long for the day when you just get home, connect it to a TV set and bluetooth
input and is ready for "serious work". still not quite there, either in the
software landscape or ease for connection (still kinda clunky, with wires and
such)
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On 04/07/2014 04:53 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>>> >Don't bother.
>>> That bad, huh?
>>>
>>
>> No, but if you have the option...
>>
>> I don't want my PC/Laptop to pretend it is an android device.
>
> This appears to be the way everything is heading, though.
>
> When we updated all our stuff to OpenSUSE 12.2, we found that it comes
> with GNOME 3, which is basically just like GNOME 2, except designed to
> only work on a Tablet. So that means only one window visible at once
> (unless you go out of your way to force it to not do that for each
> window you open), lots of scrolly menus, and half the buttons missing.
>
> It's astonishing how many of the plugins for GNOME 3 are there to add
> back all the features they took out. Stuff like a minimise button on the
> windows, a list of open windows (without having to open a context menu
> to see it), program launch icons on the main screen (again, without
> having to open a context menu to get at them), and so on.
>
> Of course, any time anyone changes anything, half the userbase wants it
> back the way it was. But no, the astonishing thing is the number of
> plugins that have been written given that NOT ONE SINGLE SHRED OF
> DOCUMENTATION exists for how to do this. (Did I mention that the entire
> shell is now written in JavaScript, and a "plugin" is nothing other than
> JavaScript for live-patching the running shell??)
>
> I suppose it's inevitable; the mobile device market is larger than the
> dekstop market can ever hope to be. It is thus for more profitable. But
> as a computer expert who wants to actually, you know, USE A COMPUTER
> (and not just surf Facebook), I think all this terribly annoying...
have you tired KDE instead?
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On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 19:06:49 +0100, Stephen wrote:
> On 07/04/2014 2:12 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> 13.1 is a long term support release, so it won't need to be updated
>> after the end of the regular 18-month support cycle (other than being
>> pointed at the "Evergreen" repositories that make it an LTS release).
>>
>>
> Run that by me again. In English. :-P
openSUSE normal release cycle is 8 months (give or take). The policy is
to support current + last release, with a 2 month overlap for the
previous release. So, version 12.1 (for example) was supported until the
release of 12.3 + 2 months (18 months later).
LTS = Long Term Support. Means it's supported for longer than the normal
18-month support cycle.
>>> >Don't bother.
>> That bad, huh?
>>
>>
> No, but if you have the option...
>
> I don't want my PC/Laptop to pretend it is an android device.
Windows 8 is a poor substitute for Android. ;)
>>> >Enough moaning. I don't want to be an old fuddy duddy. Even though I
>>> >am.
>> I know the feeling. Not quite as fuddy or duddy, (you can have the
>> crown for fuddiness and for duddiness for now).
>
> I don't mind which castle I'm king of. :-)
LOL
> Actually, I play on the fact that I am old. That and the stereotypical
> Jock (means Scot for those other Americans) is a born enjineer. ;-)
> Hoots mon! Ye daena ken whit is wis like when 9600 baud wis state o' the
> art. ;-)
You play the role well. :)
>> I'm starting a new contract that runs through July 1 tomorrow,
>
> Congrats.
Thanks!
>> and the client is sending me a laptop - could be Windows, could be a
>> Mac. I can work with either (the company uses Macs almost
>> exclusively), but I definitely prefer running Linux on my systems.
>
> The last time I used or repaired a Mac was 20 years ago.
> A bit longer for Unix.
Last time I used a Mac for anything serious was when I was in high
school. I have some familiarity with OSX (I installed it in a VM so I
could just fiddle with it a bit and know a bit about it), but the tools
this client needs me to work with are mostly Windows apps.
*nix has changed a bit. You'd probably settle into Linux pretty easily,
though.
Jim
--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 21:53:49 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> When we updated all our stuff to OpenSUSE 12.2, we found that it comes
> with GNOME 3, which is basically just like GNOME 2, except designed to
> only work on a Tablet.
Well, no, that wasn't the design goal (as I understand it), but I use
GNOME3 daily, and I like its minimalistic approach.
The only thing I absolutely hate about it is when a plugin dies, it
crashes the entire session with an "Oh, no! Something happened!" and an
option to log out. I would at /least/ like to save documents I have open
before being forced to log out.
Whoever thought that was a good idea spent far too much time dealing with
systems where everything runs in ring 0 and an abend was generally
considered a good thing. We're past those days now, and being able to
recover, say, a running virtual machine might just be a /good/ thing.
Jim
--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Le 07/04/2014 23:58, James Holsenback a écrit :
>
> have you tired KDE instead?
When Ubuntu moved to Gnome 3 (or was it Unity), I went to xfce, the
Xubuntu desktop.
Kde is nice, but it looks far too much like old W95. And I never get
multi-screen handling like I wanted.
I enjoyed Gnome 2, alas it is no more.
--
Just because nobody complains does not mean all parachutes are perfect.
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Le 07/04/2014 23:48, nemesis a écrit :
> Got one these days for my daughter as well, a laptop. Most probably, the last
> desktop computing device I'm buying. I have consoles for games and do pretty
> much everything else on my android phone - of course, at work I still use a
> handy "mainframe".
>
> I long for the day when you just get home, connect it to a TV set and bluetooth
> input and is ready for "serious work". still not quite there, either in the
> software landscape or ease for connection (still kinda clunky, with wires and
> such)
>
>
It's coming... hdmi plug, small usb cable for powersupply (as long as
your tv as a usb port)
> http://linuxgizmos.com/hdmi-stick-mini-pc-runs-android-on-quad-core-arm-cortex-a9/
August 2013... the time has come!
--
Just because nobody complains does not mean all parachutes are perfect.
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On 08/04/2014 01:55 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 21:53:49 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>
>> When we updated all our stuff to OpenSUSE 12.2, we found that it comes
>> with GNOME 3, which is basically just like GNOME 2, except designed to
>> only work on a Tablet.
>
> Well, no, that wasn't the design goal (as I understand it), but I use
> GNOME3 daily, and I like its minimalistic approach.
Heck, in OpenSUSE 13.1, they even took away the scrollbar and replaced
it with a page-selector widget. The entire design seems focused on
touchscreens.
> The only thing I absolutely hate about it is when a plugin dies, it
> crashes the entire session with an "Oh, no! Something happened!" and an
> option to log out. I would at /least/ like to save documents I have open
> before being forced to log out.
>
> Whoever thought that was a good idea spent far too much time dealing with
> systems where everything runs in ring 0 and an abend was generally
> considered a good thing. We're past those days now, and being able to
> recover, say, a running virtual machine might just be a /good/ thing.
I enjoy the way that you can enable and disable "GNOME shell
extensions". Except that an "extension" is merely some code that patches
the live JS code that powers the shell. When you disable one, THE
EXTENSION is responsible for undoing all of its changes. If it does this
incorrectly, then "disabling" a plugin does not put the system back into
its original state.
Hell, it's trivially possible to write an extension that installs itself
in the Init() function, and has EMPTY Enable() and Disable() functions!
In which case, enabling or disabling the extension is no-op.
People, THIS IS NOT SENSIBLE DESIGN!
Designing a system that is completely undocumented, yet can only be
extended by violating encapsulation to monkey-patch live code while it's
still running is a Bad Idea.
Designing a system where the plugin author is responsible for enabling
and disabling correctly is a Bad Idea.
Designing a system that's powered by an untyped psuedo-OO scripting
language originally intended for web development rather than desktop
applications is... questionable at best. :-P
Utterly failing to document one single shred of this is... exasperating
in the extremes!
Still, we found that once we (*cough* I *cough*) spent a few months
patching the code, we could get it to hobble along more or less how we
wanted. OTOH, if Win8 doesn't work how you like... suck it?
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Le_Forgeron <lef### [at] free fr> wrote:
> Le 07/04/2014 23:48, nemesis a écrit :
> > Got one these days for my daughter as well, a laptop. Most probably, the last
> > desktop computing device I'm buying. I have consoles for games and do pretty
> > much everything else on my android phone - of course, at work I still use a
> > handy "mainframe".
> >
> > I long for the day when you just get home, connect it to a TV set and bluetooth
> > input and is ready for "serious work". still not quite there, either in the
> > software landscape or ease for connection (still kinda clunky, with wires and
> > such)
> >
> >
> It's coming... hdmi plug, small usb cable for powersupply (as long as
> your tv as a usb port)
>
>
> > http://linuxgizmos.com/hdmi-stick-mini-pc-runs-android-on-quad-core-arm-cortex-a9/
>
> August 2013... the time has come!
quite cool but still not quite
on one side we have media streamers like Chromecast, AppleTV, Amazon FireTV
on the other we have devices like that, PCs in a thumbstick which will only
function when connected to a display
my smartphone already has a display! I just want to get home and easily connect
it to a larger display and keyboard.
Easy but not not cheap with bluetooth keyboards, cheap but clunky with miniUSB.
Kind clunky connecting to the TV because there's many ways: you can try to find
some hdmi cable to your device, or try to mirror some other way, and most ways
do nothing but just stream media. not cool
anyway, soon will be wearing pieces of interconnected devices. Have you guys
read Accelerando? :)
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On 08/04/2014 21:02, nemesis wrote:
> Have you guys
> read Accelerando?
Charles Stross. +1 :-)
--
Regards
Stephen
I solemnly promise to kick the next angle, I see.
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> my smartphone already has a display! I just want to get home and easily connect
> it to a larger display and keyboard.
>
> Easy but not not cheap with bluetooth keyboards, cheap but clunky with miniUSB.
> Kind clunky connecting to the TV because there's many ways: you can try to find
> some hdmi cable to your device, or try to mirror some other way, and most ways
> do nothing but just stream media. not cool
I was under the impression that most android phones will work as USB
host, and also output HDMI on the same connector. Once you'd wired up a
USB hub, power, keyboard, mouse and HDMI connection can't you just leave
it all behind your TV, then when you come home just plug the single
connector into your phone?
Wouldn't the bigger problem be that the whole UI and most apps are
designed for a 400ppi display with multi-touch? I would have thought
using a mouse and large TV would be very frustrating on such a device.
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scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> > my smartphone already has a display! I just want to get home and easily connect
> > it to a larger display and keyboard.
> >
> > Easy but not not cheap with bluetooth keyboards, cheap but clunky with miniUSB.
> > Kind clunky connecting to the TV because there's many ways: you can try to find
> > some hdmi cable to your device, or try to mirror some other way, and most ways
> > do nothing but just stream media. not cool
>
> I was under the impression that most android phones will work as USB
> host, and also output HDMI on the same connector. Once you'd wired up a
> USB hub, power, keyboard, mouse and HDMI connection can't you just leave
> it all behind your TV, then when you come home just plug the single
> connector into your phone?
>
> Wouldn't the bigger problem be that the whole UI and most apps are
> designed for a 400ppi display with multi-touch? I would have thought
> using a mouse and large TV would be very frustrating on such a device.
mouse? why would anyone want to go back using a mouse when they can directly
touch anywhere in the screen?
that's why wireless screen mirroring is the sweet goal: you still have your
device in your hand to act as a touchscreen remote controller.
what's wrong with that UI? isn't it so fine that Windows is emulating it? ;)
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On 09/04/2014 20:47, nemesis wrote:
> what's wrong with that UI? isn't it so fine that Windows is emulating it?;)
Boak!
--
Regards
Stephen
I solemnly promise to kick the next angle, I see.
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On Tue, 08 Apr 2014 18:37:06 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> On 08/04/2014 01:55 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 21:53:49 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>
>>> When we updated all our stuff to OpenSUSE 12.2, we found that it comes
>>> with GNOME 3, which is basically just like GNOME 2, except designed to
>>> only work on a Tablet.
>>
>> Well, no, that wasn't the design goal (as I understand it), but I use
>> GNOME3 daily, and I like its minimalistic approach.
>
> Heck, in OpenSUSE 13.1, they even took away the scrollbar and replaced
> it with a page-selector widget. The entire design seems focused on
> touchscreens.
I run 13.1 on two machines every day with GNOME3. I've no idea what
you're talking about - I've got scrollbars in my newsreader (pan), for
example, and they work like scrollbars.
>> The only thing I absolutely hate about it is when a plugin dies, it
>> crashes the entire session with an "Oh, no! Something happened!" and
>> an option to log out. I would at /least/ like to save documents I have
>> open before being forced to log out.
>>
>> Whoever thought that was a good idea spent far too much time dealing
>> with systems where everything runs in ring 0 and an abend was generally
>> considered a good thing. We're past those days now, and being able to
>> recover, say, a running virtual machine might just be a /good/ thing.
>
> I enjoy the way that you can enable and disable "GNOME shell
> extensions". Except that an "extension" is merely some code that patches
> the live JS code that powers the shell. When you disable one, THE
> EXTENSION is responsible for undoing all of its changes. If it does this
> incorrectly, then "disabling" a plugin does not put the system back into
> its original state.
Yep, and you can see the effects of this with some poorly written
extensions. The GNOME developers *really* need to harden the error
handling a bit more.
> Hell, it's trivially possible to write an extension that installs itself
> in the Init() function, and has EMPTY Enable() and Disable() functions!
> In which case, enabling or disabling the extension is no-op.
>
> People, THIS IS NOT SENSIBLE DESIGN!
>
> Designing a system that is completely undocumented, yet can only be
> extended by violating encapsulation to monkey-patch live code while it's
> still running is a Bad Idea.
>
> Designing a system where the plugin author is responsible for enabling
> and disabling correctly is a Bad Idea.
>
> Designing a system that's powered by an untyped psuedo-OO scripting
> language originally intended for web development rather than desktop
> applications is... questionable at best. :-P
>
> Utterly failing to document one single shred of this is... exasperating
> in the extremes!
>
> Still, we found that once we (*cough* I *cough*) spent a few months
> patching the code, we could get it to hobble along more or less how we
> wanted. OTOH, if Win8 doesn't work how you like... suck it?
:)
And the extensions system in GNOME3 has allowed those who preferred GNOME2
to get some semblance of the functionality they were used to.
I don't really care about the DE myself; GNOME3 is less distracting for
me than KDE, which is why I use it - I'm more interested in apps and
getting work done than tweaking my desktop endlessly. ;)
Jim
--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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>> Heck, in OpenSUSE 13.1, they even took away the scrollbar and replaced
>> it with a page-selector widget. The entire design seems focused on
>> touchscreens.
>
> I run 13.1 on two machines every day with GNOME3. I've no idea what
> you're talking about - I've got scrollbars in my newsreader (pan), for
> example, and they work like scrollbars.
https://news.opensuse.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Application-Launching-GNOME-13.1.png
You see those three dots on the right-hand edge? That used to be a
scrollbar. And now it's three dots. Clicking one takes you to that page.
Because clicking a dot is easy, but dragging a scrollbar is hard, when
all you have is a touchscreen.
(Ironically, our product actually *has* a touchscreen - and everybody
tries to swape-drag like it's an iPhone, and then gets awfully confused
when that doesn't work...)
>> When you disable one, THE
>> EXTENSION is responsible for undoing all of its changes.
>
> Yep, and you can see the effects of this with some poorly written
> extensions. The GNOME developers *really* need to harden the error
> handling a bit more.
Tell me about it. Right about the time they start *documenting* how this
stuff is meant to work. (I still find it astonishing that this much code
has been written given that there is NO DOCUMENTATION!)
One troll told me "no, there IS no documentation, and nor should there
be; the source code is the documentation". WTF? Yeah, like I'm *really*
going to read 50,000 LoC in an untyped scripting language just to figure
out what ****ing command I need to turn off one button!
You do not read the Linux source code just to figure out what the
default process priority is; you look at the frigging documentation!
>> Utterly failing to document one single shred of this is... exasperating
>> in the extremes!
>>
>> Still, we found that once we (*cough* I *cough*) spent a few months
>> patching the code, we could get it to hobble along more or less how we
>> wanted. OTOH, if Win8 doesn't work how you like... suck it?
>
> :)
>
> And the extensions system in GNOME3 has allowed those who preferred GNOME2
> to get some semblance of the functionality they were used to.
>
> I don't really care about the DE myself; GNOME3 is less distracting for
> me than KDE, which is why I use it - I'm more interested in apps and
> getting work done than tweaking my desktop endlessly. ;)
Yeah, well, we're trying to alter the DE so that you can only run our
app with it. That's quite a non-standard task...
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> mouse? why would anyone want to go back using a mouse when they can directly
> touch anywhere in the screen?
>
> that's why wireless screen mirroring is the sweet goal: you still have your
> device in your hand to act as a touchscreen remote controller.
I think that would feel really weird using the touch screen without
looking at it, how would you know where to tap? But I've never tried it.
Or do you mean just using it like a trackpad on an old laptop? I hate
those too, give me a mouse please!
> what's wrong with that UI? isn't it so fine that Windows is emulating it? ;)
The problem is not so much the UI itself, but that the graphics are
designed for a 4" display, if you replicate it pixel-for-pixel onto a
24"+ screen then everything is just too big. I wonder if there is a way
to tell Android dynamically that you are using a different ppi screen
now and to adjust itself, I've always just put up with a 30cm wide icon
to launch YouTube when I've connected mine up :-)
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On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 08:15:26 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>> Heck, in OpenSUSE 13.1, they even took away the scrollbar and replaced
>>> it with a page-selector widget. The entire design seems focused on
>>> touchscreens.
>>
>> I run 13.1 on two machines every day with GNOME3. I've no idea what
>> you're talking about - I've got scrollbars in my newsreader (pan), for
>> example, and they work like scrollbars.
>
> https://news.opensuse.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Application-
Launching-GNOME-13.1.png
>
> You see those three dots on the right-hand edge? That used to be a
> scrollbar. And now it's three dots. Clicking one takes you to that page.
> Because clicking a dot is easy, but dragging a scrollbar is hard, when
> all you have is a touchscreen.
I don't actually see that when I go to the activities screen. I see the
apps that are running.
But I would be surprised if the mouse scrollwheel doesn't let you switch
from page to page there.
In applications themselves (which is what I thought you were talking
about, and what I was talking about), the scrollbar is present if needed.
>> Yep, and you can see the effects of this with some poorly written
>> extensions. The GNOME developers *really* need to harden the error
>> handling a bit more.
>
> Tell me about it. Right about the time they start *documenting* how this
> stuff is meant to work. (I still find it astonishing that this much code
> has been written given that there is NO DOCUMENTATION!)
Well, I'm sure there's some, and it's not the source code, but I haven't
needed to write an extension yet, so I haven't really gone looking for it
yet.
But if I were, I might be inclined to look at the code for another
extension to see how it does it.
>> And the extensions system in GNOME3 has allowed those who preferred
>> GNOME2 to get some semblance of the functionality they were used to.
>>
>> I don't really care about the DE myself; GNOME3 is less distracting for
>> me than KDE, which is why I use it - I'm more interested in apps and
>> getting work done than tweaking my desktop endlessly. ;)
>
> Yeah, well, we're trying to alter the DE so that you can only run our
> app with it. That's quite a non-standard task...
I think there is a lockdown app for openSUSE. You might ask on the
openSUSE forums if anyone has experience with doing that sort of thing.
Jim
--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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>>> Yep, and you can see the effects of this with some poorly written
>>> extensions. The GNOME developers *really* need to harden the error
>>> handling a bit more.
>>
>> Tell me about it. Right about the time they start *documenting* how this
>> stuff is meant to work. (I still find it astonishing that this much code
>> has been written given that there is NO DOCUMENTATION!)
>
> Well, I'm sure there's some, and it's not the source code, but I haven't
> needed to write an extension yet, so I haven't really gone looking for it
> yet.
>
> But if I were, I might be inclined to look at the code for another
> extension to see how it does it.
...and thus, if one person finds a flawed but superficially working way
to do something, everybody will copy their mistake. Because there's no
documentation on the "correct" way to do it.
Even then, I'm surprised this much code has been written. I spent
literally *weeks* trying to comprehend the code of several extensions I
looked at. To this day I literally cannot work out how the hell it
actually works. It's just SO COMPLICATED to do even the most trivial
task with this stuff...
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On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 18:27:33 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>>> Yep, and you can see the effects of this with some poorly written
>>>> extensions. The GNOME developers *really* need to harden the error
>>>> handling a bit more.
>>>
>>> Tell me about it. Right about the time they start *documenting* how
>>> this stuff is meant to work. (I still find it astonishing that this
>>> much code has been written given that there is NO DOCUMENTATION!)
>>
>> Well, I'm sure there's some, and it's not the source code, but I
>> haven't needed to write an extension yet, so I haven't really gone
>> looking for it yet.
>>
>> But if I were, I might be inclined to look at the code for another
>> extension to see how it does it.
>
> ...and thus, if one person finds a flawed but superficially working way
> to do something, everybody will copy their mistake. Because there's no
> documentation on the "correct" way to do it.
I don't debate that, but I would tend to use code from a well-thought-of
extension. You can get some credibility from the GNOME developers.
> Even then, I'm surprised this much code has been written. I spent
> literally *weeks* trying to comprehend the code of several extensions I
> looked at. To this day I literally cannot work out how the hell it
> actually works. It's just SO COMPLICATED to do even the most trivial
> task with this stuff...
I do agree that better documentation is needed, along with sample code.
Jim
--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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On 06/04/2014 16:16, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 15:35:41 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>> >It is a Win8 machine.
>> >
>> >I hate Win8
>> >
>> >Does anyone know of a "how to do things in Win8 that was easy in Win7",
>> >tutorial?
> fdisk
>
That's looking like a very attractive option. ATM.
I've spent most of the day trying to make this Win8 machine, and I use
that word loosely, dual boot. I've created partitions, I've deleted
partitions, I've made bootable thumb drives. I've been unable to boot at
all. I've changed settings in the BIOS as if I were testing a truth table.
But at least I have three logical discs instead on one big one.
And to top it all. Elite Dangerous wont run on it. And runs like a pig
on my old one.
Not to mention Thomas will be bending my ear because I should have been
talking to the TC-RTC's coder. </end guilt>
That is coming along well, by the way and we should be ready to test
running two Challenges in parallel. Very soon. :-D
> Install openSUSE.;)
Only if you set it up for me. ;-)
Dr John promised he would do it, years ago. Now he has gone AWOL again.
I'll take it into to work and see if I can bribe one of the IT guys with
two pizza to F*ck it up really good. :-)
If I'm going to break the warranty I'll do it properly.
--
Regards
Stephen
I solemnly promise to kick the next angle, I see.
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On 13/04/2014 00:22, Stephen wrote:
> On 06/04/2014 16:16, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> fdisk
I thought you meant low level format.
Nowadays it is diskpart .
--
Regards
Stephen
I solemnly promise to kick the next angle, I see.
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On Sun, 13 Apr 2014 00:22:54 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>> fdisk
>>
> That's looking like a very attractive option. ATM.
:)
> I've spent most of the day trying to make this Win8 machine, and I use
> that word loosely, dual boot. I've created partitions, I've deleted
> partitions, I've made bootable thumb drives. I've been unable to boot at
> all. I've changed settings in the BIOS as if I were testing a truth
> table.
> But at least I have three logical discs instead on one big one.
> And to top it all. Elite Dangerous wont run on it. And runs like a pig
> on my old one.
Dual booting what? One of the odd things with Win8 is that it's got this
"fast boot" option that caches some stuff (as I understand it) and that
"feature" speeds up Win8 booting at the expense of dual boot
functionality being horribly broken and nonfunctional.
> Not to mention Thomas will be bending my ear because I should have been
> talking to the TC-RTC's coder. </end guilt>
>
> That is coming along well, by the way and we should be ready to test
> running two Challenges in parallel. Very soon. :-D
>
>
>> Install openSUSE.;)
>
> Only if you set it up for me. ;-)
Remotely is a bit of a challenge. Is it a UEFI system with secure
boot? :)
> Dr John promised he would do it, years ago. Now he has gone AWOL again.
> I'll take it into to work and see if I can bribe one of the IT guys with
> two pizza to F*ck it up really good. :-)
Maybe we just need to start another game to get him to reappear. ;)
> If I'm going to break the warranty I'll do it properly.
I never worry about breaking the warranty - worst case, you wipe the
drive and say "I dunno what happened". :)
Jim
--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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On Sun, 13 Apr 2014 00:33:27 +0100, Stephen wrote:
> On 13/04/2014 00:22, Stephen wrote:
>> On 06/04/2014 16:16, Jim Henderson wrote:
>
>>> fdisk
>
> I thought you meant low level format.
> Nowadays it is diskpart .
That is more or less what I meant.
But yeah, it's changed. It's an old joke from my time on the Novell
forums on CompuServe. "We are the SysOps who say 'fdisk'!" - I have a t-
shirt or a CD case somewhere with that printed on it. :)
Jim
--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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>> fdisk
>>
> That's looking like a very attractive option. ATM.
>
> I've spent most of the day trying to make this Win8 machine, and I use
> that word loosely, dual boot. I've created partitions, I've deleted
> partitions, I've made bootable thumb drives. I've been unable to boot at
> all. I've changed settings in the BIOS as if I were testing a truth table.
BIOS?
Don't you mean UEFI? ;-)
And that might well be your problem. UEFI doesn't use the boot block *at
all* during the boot process; it uses its own completely new system of
booting...
...unless you turn on BIOS compatibility mode, in which case it works
just like before.
Oh, and did I mention? You may have Secure Boot turned on. If so, only
digitally signed operating systems (e.g., Windows 8) can be used.
Did I mention this has been the bane of my life for the past month?
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On 13/04/2014 10:02 AM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>> fdisk
>>>
>> That's looking like a very attractive option. ATM.
>>
>> I've spent most of the day trying to make this Win8 machine, and I use
>> that word loosely, dual boot. I've created partitions, I've deleted
>> partitions, I've made bootable thumb drives. I've been unable to boot at
>> all. I've changed settings in the BIOS as if I were testing a truth
>> table.
>
> BIOS?
>
> Don't you mean UEFI? ;-)
>
Maybe I do. Maybe I don't ;-)
> And that might well be your problem. UEFI doesn't use the boot block *at
> all* during the boot process; it uses its own completely new system of
> booting...
>
>
So I found out.
Does message ring a bell?
Windows cannot be installed on this disk. The selected disk is of the
GPT partition style.
>
> ....unless you turn on BIOS compatibility mode, in which case it works
> just like before.
>
>
I turned the setting to legacy. Then it could not find a bootable disc.
And I could not install Win7 to make it bootable.
>
> Oh, and did I mention? You may have Secure Boot turned on. If so, only
> digitally signed operating systems (e.g., Windows 8) can be used.
>
I switched that off too.
>
> Did I mention this has been the bane of my life for the past month?
I don't think so. But I've not been keeping up with the newsgroups,
recently.
The whole thing is very annoying.
--
Regards
Stephen
I solemnly promise to kick the next angle, I see.
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>> And that might well be your problem. UEFI doesn't use the boot block *at
>> all* during the boot process; it uses its own completely new system of
>> booting...
>
> So I found out.
>
> Does message ring a bell?
>
> Windows cannot be installed on this disk. The selected disk is of the
> GPT partition style.
The whole thing should eventually make everybody's lives *easier*. GPT
is much simpler and more sane than the existing MBR nonsense. And the
EFI boot process is much simpler and easier to manage, with a butt-load
of useful new features.
Trouble is, all this stuff is brand-new. And consequently, a lot of it
seems to be buggy as hell! I couldn't even get the OpenSUSE installation
DVD to *boot* on our test laptop until I reflashed the firmware.
Apparently the firmware it was shipped with doesn't implement half the
functionality correctly, and it's only once you've updated it that
things start to work right.
The other sad thing is... EFI offers a whole bunch of new functionality
that is supposed to make our lives easier. But everybody is only
bothering to implement the parts of EFI required for Win8 certification.
(And sometimes not even all of that!) So it looks like all the old hacks
and workarounds for the BIOS being rubbish are going to be replaced by a
whole new generation of hacks and workarounds for EFI not being
implemented properly... *sigh*
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