I have been effectively off-line for the last 10 days. Symptoms: My
router kept dropping the connection to my ISP up to 20 times a day and
my download speed dropped to <0.5 Mb/s and you can forget about
measuring my upload speed; suffice it to say that it was measured in
bits per hour.
Unfortunately my ISP (who will remain unnamed but whose initials are BT)
has seen it fit to outsource their call-centres to Mumbai and staff them
with 1st-line "engineers" whose sole purpose is to avoid raising any
tickets to 2nd-line or higher. Despite my explaining what the probable
cause of the fault was (The telecomms switch-room is in the basement of
my block of flats and it had been flooded a month ago. It was therefore
likely that the various connectors had been corroded), it wasn't until I
unilaterally raised my complaint to the office of the Customer Service
Director that any action was taken.
Today, finally, an engineer arrived, replaced a whole bunch of corroded
connections and then waterproofed them. I am now back on line.
What I can't understand is why no-one else in the block noticed the
fault. As the engineer said I wasn't the only one affected.

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

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On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 16:37:41 +0000, Doctor John wrote:

> Today, finally, an engineer arrived, replaced a whole bunch of corroded
> connections and then waterproofed them. I am now back on line.
> What I can't understand is why no-one else in the block noticed the
> fault.
> As the engineer said I wasn't the only one affected.

That sounds like my normal conversations with my previous ISP's support.  
I was with them for nearly 14 years, only had to call in twice, but the 
two times I called in were exercises in frustration and futility.

At one point during one of the calls, I got so angry I actually said to 
the tech "look, I'm a networking professional, and if I had access to the 
equipment, I'd fix it myself.  But I don't, so I have to go through 
idiots like you!"

I was pretty angry at that point.

I ultimately had to escalate it myself - by contacting the office of the 
CEO.  My problem got fixed pretty quickly after that. :)

Jim



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

Doctor John <j.g### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Unfortunately my ISP (who will remain unnamed but whose initials are BT)
> has seen it fit to outsource their call-centres to Mumbai and staff them
> with 1st-line "engineers" whose sole purpose is to avoid raising any
> tickets to 2nd-line or higher.

Microsoft isn't an ISP (at least not yet; probably only a matter of time),
and whatever your opinion might be of it as a company, I really have to
give them credit for their amazingly good phone support, at least here.
(I have told this before here, but I think it deserves repeating.)

When my Xbox Live account was hacked, I called Microsoft's local phone
support here, and was quite surprised by the effectiveness an level of
professionalism. The person at the other end did not ask even a single
stupid question, she understood everything I said without any problems,
she asked all the right questions and all the (and only the) necessary
information, and the matter was resolved quickly and efficiently. (I was
expecting the typical horror story of having to tell all kind of completely
irrelevant minutia, and having to explain even simple things over and over,
and having to convince them that yes, my account was really hacked and it's
not a completely unrelated irrelevant problem, but there was none of that.)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

> I have been effectively off-line for the last 10 days. Symptoms: My
> router kept dropping the connection to my ISP up to 20 times a day and
> my download speed dropped to <0.5 Mb/s and you can forget about
> measuring my upload speed; suffice it to say that it was measured in
> bits per hour.
> Unfortunately my ISP (who will remain unnamed but whose initials are BT)
> has seen it fit to outsource their call-centres to Mumbai and staff them
> with 1st-line "engineers" whose sole purpose is to avoid raising any
> tickets to 2nd-line or higher. Despite my explaining what the probable

I haven't even bothered to call them about my connection drops. Once or 
twice a week (that I notice) for a period of about 30 mins - 2 hours the 
connection gets really bad, like 25% of the normal speed (as reported by 
the modem), pings measured in seconds and repeated drops altogether (the 
modem log shows ADSL disconnected and reconnected again repeatedly). I 
should really go and look to see if there is an email address to write 
to about this rather than trying to explain it all over the phone (where 
no doubt I will forget to mention something).

Post a reply to this message

On 11/03/14 17:59, Jim Henderson wrote:
> At one point during one of the calls, I got so angry I actually said to 
> the tech "look, I'm a networking professional, and if I had access to the 
> equipment, I'd fix it myself.  But I don't, so I have to go through 
> idiots like you!"
> 
> I was pretty angry at that point.
> 
> I ultimately had to escalate it myself - by contacting the office of the 
> CEO.  My problem got fixed pretty quickly after that. :)
> 
> Jim
> 
> 

Yup. Go to the top but only when you have tried the "recommended" route
first.

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

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On 11/03/14 19:27, Warp wrote:
> Microsoft isn't an ISP (at least not yet; probably only a matter of time),
> and whatever your opinion might be of it as a company, I really have to
> give them credit for their amazingly good phone support, at least here.
> (I have told this before here, but I think it deserves repeating.)
> 

Indeed you have. 13 December 2013 in reply to my post praising M$
support :-)

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

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On 12/03/14 08:21, scott wrote:
> 
> I haven't even bothered to call them about my connection drops. Once or
> twice a week (that I notice) for a period of about 30 mins - 2 hours the
> connection gets really bad, like 25% of the normal speed (as reported by
> the modem), pings measured in seconds and repeated drops altogether (the
> modem log shows ADSL disconnected and reconnected again repeatedly). I
> should really go and look to see if there is an email address to write
> to about this rather than trying to explain it all over the phone (where
> no doubt I will forget to mention something).
> 

Make sure you have made a few calls to the idiots in Mumbai first. They
log the calls received so there _is_ an audit trail. If and when you
fail to get action, Warren Buckley's details are as follows:

Warren Buckley
BT - Managing Director, Customer Service
E-mail: war### [at] btcom
Direct tel: 020 7356 5431

Have fun

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

Post a reply to this message

> Make sure you have made a few calls to the idiots in Mumbai first. They
> log the calls received so there _is_ an audit trail. If and when you
> fail to get action, Warren Buckley's details are as follows:
>
> Warren Buckley
> BT - Managing Director, Customer Service
> E-mail: war### [at] btcom
> Direct tel: 020 7356 5431

Thanks very much for that info, appreciated. That's just the kick I need 
to call Mumbai when I get home tonight.

Post a reply to this message

On 12/03/14 11:20, scott wrote:
> 
> Thanks very much for that info, appreciated. That's just the kick I need
> to call Mumbai when I get home tonight.
> 

No problem.

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

Post a reply to this message

Doctor John <j.g### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I have been effectively off-line for the last 10 days. Symptoms: My
> router kept dropping the connection to my ISP up to 20 times a day and
> my download speed dropped to <0.5 Mb/s and you can forget about
> measuring my upload speed; suffice it to say that it was measured in
> bits per hour.
> Unfortunately my ISP (who will remain unnamed but whose initials are BT)


Did you get withdrawal symptoms?
Ten days of cold turkey, what!

Not withstanding that the flood may have caused it. ;-)
The router that BT sends out with Infinity is not the best in the world. Mine
kept dropping out and when the replacement started doing the same thing within a
month. I bought one of those one that have just been hacked. :-D


> Today, finally, an engineer arrived, replaced a whole bunch of corroded
> connections and then waterproofed them. I am now back on line.
> What I can't understand is why no-one else in the block noticed the
> fault. As the engineer said I wasn't the only one affected.

They probably did but it is black magic to most people.
(Am I allowed to say that? I never can tell.


Me.

Post a reply to this message

Le 2014-03-11 12:37, Doctor John a écrit :
> Unfortunately my ISP (who will remain unnamed but whose initials are BT)
> has seen it fit to outsource their call-centres to Mumbai and staff them
> with 1st-line "engineers" whose sole purpose is to avoid raising any
> tickets to 2nd-line or higher. Despite my explaining what the probable
> cause of the fault was (The telecomms switch-room is in the basement of
> my block of flats and it had been flooded a month ago. It was therefore
> likely that the various connectors had been corroded), it wasn't until I
> unilaterally raised my complaint to the office of the Customer Service
> Director that any action was taken.

Indians have a respect for authority that is almost as deeply rooted as 
the Japanese's.  So low-level employees will stick to procedure and not 
show any initiative, for fear of running afoul of higher ups.  Even if 
the person you spoke to knew that you were probably right, he needed to 
follow his script.

-- 
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/*    flabreque    */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
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/*   gmail.com     */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }

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On 12/03/14 12:52, Stephen wrote:
> 
> 
> Did you get withdrawal symptoms?
> Ten days of cold turkey, what!
> 

It was hell, Carruthers, sheer hell.

> 
> They probably did but it is black magic to most people.

Sadly, so true. As Mr T Bliar PM once said, "Edyoukation, Edyoukation,
Edyoukation."

> (Am I allowed to say that? I never can tell.

Probably, but you never know with the PC police.

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

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On 12/03/14 13:37, Francois Labreque wrote:
> 
> Indians have a respect for authority that is almost as deeply rooted as
> the Japanese's.  So low-level employees will stick to procedure and not
> show any initiative, for fear of running afoul of higher ups.  Even if
> the person you spoke to knew that you were probably right, he needed to
> follow his script.
> 

A good point.

There was an article in New Scientist a couple of years ago that related
the behaviour of bi- and tri-lingual children and teenagers when
speaking any one of their particular languages. As I recall, a
Japanese/English speaking kid would be considerably more polite and
deferential when speaking Japanese than when speaking English.

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

Post a reply to this message

> There was an article in New Scientist a couple of years ago that related
> the behaviour of bi- and tri-lingual children and teenagers when
> speaking any one of their particular languages. As I recall, a
> Japanese/English speaking kid would be considerably more polite and
> deferential when speaking Japanese than when speaking English.

In English we don't really change the language much depending on who we 
are speaking to. In German you have du/sie but in Japanese there are 
more options, and in the extreme (eg dealing with the boss of your 
company or an important customer) things get pretty crazy. A Japanese 
colleague once literally translated what he'd just been told in a bank, 
it went something like "With respect, we beg your permission to kindly 
allow us to forward this form as quickly as possible to our 
headquarters.". The equivalent in an English bank would probably be 
"we'll send this off to head office ok".

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 10:53:22 +0000, Doctor John wrote:

> Yup. Go to the top but only when you have tried the "recommended" route
> first.

Yep, I try to give the techs the benefit of the doubt - as a Linux user, 
I know sometimes even if they know, they can't say (liability being what 
it is) - had a discussion with one tech on the other call about that as 
well.  He ended up giving me a pointer that worked, though he really 
wasn't permitted to. :)

Jim


-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

On 12/03/14 18:32, Jim Henderson wrote:
> Yep, I try to give the techs the benefit of the doubt - as a Linux user, 
> I know sometimes even if they know, they can't say (liability being what 
> it is) - had a discussion with one tech on the other call about that as 
> well.  He ended up giving me a pointer that worked, though he really 
> wasn't permitted to. :)
> 

Sorry about the late reply. The Feegle has been having breathing
difficulties recently and today the consultants recommended the knife
(tonsils and adenoids). I (as the son of a surgeon) am not overly
concerned but the Kat is - so, much discussion and reassurance.

Back to the thread:
Your experience not withstanding, it seems to me that most 1st-liners
are just reading a script and few of them understand that there are more
than 2 OSes.
A long time ago, I was the National Training Director of a pair of large
corporations (AirCall Communications and TeleData). One of the things
that I fought for and won was not only a doubling of the training period
but also a buddy-buddy system for the first month of their active
working life so if they had a call they could not cope with they had an
'angel sitting on their shoulder'.

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

Post a reply to this message

Doctor John <j.g### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Your experience not withstanding, it seems to me that most 1st-liners
> are just reading a script and few of them understand that there are more
> than 2 OSes.

I think it's sad when *telemarketers* are reading from a script and
then don't know how to answer technical questions.

What does it tell about a company when they have to hire people to
read a script without much understanding to sell their product...

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

On 13/03/14 23:01, Warp wrote:
> Doctor John <j.g### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> Your experience not withstanding, it seems to me that most 1st-liners
>> are just reading a script and few of them understand that there are more
>> than 2 OSes.
> 
> I think it's sad when *telemarketers* are reading from a script and
> then don't know how to answer technical questions.
> 
> What does it tell about a company when they have to hire people to
> read a script without much understanding to sell their product...
> 

... that they care more about the bottom line, in the short term, than
they do about future sales?

BTW Ignoring Teledata, AirCall was a real disaster management system.
Ask Stephen about Piper Alpha

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

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On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 22:56:05 +0000, Doctor John wrote:

> On 12/03/14 18:32, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Yep, I try to give the techs the benefit of the doubt - as a Linux
>> user,
>> I know sometimes even if they know, they can't say (liability being
>> what it is) - had a discussion with one tech on the other call about
>> that as well.  He ended up giving me a pointer that worked, though he
>> really wasn't permitted to. :)
>> 
>> 
> Sorry about the late reply. The Feegle has been having breathing
> difficulties recently and today the consultants recommended the knife
> (tonsils and adenoids). I (as the son of a surgeon) am not overly
> concerned but the Kat is - so, much discussion and reassurance.

Eep, I hope Feegle is doing better.  We've done the "child with breathing 
difficulties" thing once (no surgery ended up being required - it was a 
severe asthma attack - but it's still a scary thing), so I empathize.

We've had our own batch of unfortunate medical issues - mostly with the 
two older cats (12 teeth to extract between the two of them and one who's 
managed to cut the skin open on his right side, and we don't know how - 
he's getting stitched up right now), and I had a trip to the ER last week 
for a kidney stone.

> Back to the thread:
> Your experience not withstanding, it seems to me that most 1st-liners
> are just reading a script and few of them understand that there are more
> than 2 OSes.
> A long time ago, I was the National Training Director of a pair of large
> corporations (AirCall Communications and TeleData). One of the things
> that I fought for and won was not only a doubling of the training period
> but also a buddy-buddy system for the first month of their active
> working life so if they had a call they could not cope with they had an
> 'angel sitting on their shoulder'.

That's an excellent idea - I didn't know you had background in training - 
I've done my own fair share of training development, delivery, and 
managing programs.  Small world.

Jim





-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

>> Thanks very much for that info, appreciated. That's just the kick I need
>> to call Mumbai when I get home tonight.
>>
>
> No problem.

So my line is on a 48 hour "test" right now. I just pray that the 
disconnection problems show up during this time...

I'm thinking of connecting up my raspberry pi directly to the router and 
logging the ping to the BT servers every minute to a text file 24/7. 
There's probably an easy linux command to do that...

Post a reply to this message

On 14/03/14 08:47, scott wrote:
> 
> I'm thinking of connecting up my raspberry pi directly to the router and
> logging the ping to the BT servers every minute to a text file 24/7.
> There's probably an easy linux command to do that...
> 

Try 'ping -i 60 www.google.com >> pingfile.txt'

Note that I've used Google rather than BT - a little bit of thought will
tell you why.

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

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On 14/03/14 00:18, Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
> Eep, I hope Feegle is doing better.  We've done the "child with breathing 
> difficulties" thing once (no surgery ended up being required - it was a 
> severe asthma attack - but it's still a scary thing), so I empathize.
> 

He's going to have the operation on April 15th - I think it will take
until then to calm the Kat's fears. Meanwhile, I'm sleeping on a bed in
his room so that I can intervene when he gets sleep apnoea. It's amazing
how sensitive my hearing has become; soft snoring, no problem, lack of
sound and I'm instantly awake.

> We've had our own batch of unfortunate medical issues - mostly with the 
> two older cats (12 teeth to extract between the two of them and one who's 
> managed to cut the skin open on his right side, and we don't know how - 
> he's getting stitched up right now), and I had a trip to the ER last week 
> for a kidney stone.
> 

The surgeons (of all types) must love seeing you walk in ;-) $$$$$

> 
> That's an excellent idea - I didn't know you had background in training - 
> I've done my own fair share of training development, delivery, and 
> managing programs.  Small world.

My own fault, really. I have always been a passionate advocate of
training per se and when the position became vacant, the previous
incumbent having gone to join Glaxo-Smith-Kline, I was the only one
prepared to put my money where my mouth was.
Seriously though, I enjoyed my few years there and would do the same if
I was asked again.

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

Post a reply to this message

Le 2014-03-14 06:12, Doctor John a écrit :
> On 14/03/14 00:18, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>
>> Eep, I hope Feegle is doing better.  We've done the "child with breathing
>> difficulties" thing once (no surgery ended up being required - it was a
>> severe asthma attack - but it's still a scary thing), so I empathize.
>>
>
> He's going to have the operation on April 15th - I think it will take
> until then to calm the Kat's fears. Meanwhile, I'm sleeping on a bed in
> his room so that I can intervene when he gets sleep apnoea. It's amazing
> how sensitive my hearing has become; soft snoring, no problem, lack of
> sound and I'm instantly awake.
>

Speaking of which...

Two little boys were in a hospital bedroom.

Timmy:  So?  What are you in for?
Samuel:  Getting my tonsils removed.
Timmy:  Ah.  I had that when I was 7.  Best. Thing. Ever.  No school for 
a week, and all the ice cream you want!
Samuel:  Cool.  And you?
Timmy: Circumcision.
Samuel:  Yikes!  I had one when I was born... It took me a year before I 
could walk!




-- 
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/*    flabreque    */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
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/*   gmail.com     */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }

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On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 10:12:28 +0000, Doctor John wrote:

> On 14/03/14 00:18, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> 
>> Eep, I hope Feegle is doing better.  We've done the "child with
>> breathing difficulties" thing once (no surgery ended up being required
>> - it was a severe asthma attack - but it's still a scary thing), so I
>> empathize.
>> 
>> 
> He's going to have the operation on April 15th - I think it will take
> until then to calm the Kat's fears. Meanwhile, I'm sleeping on a bed in
> his room so that I can intervene when he gets sleep apnoea. It's amazing
> how sensitive my hearing has become; soft snoring, no problem, lack of
> sound and I'm instantly awake.

It is amazing how readily a parent notices things like that - when Ken 
was younger, I had a similar experience on more than one occasion.

>> We've had our own batch of unfortunate medical issues - mostly with the
>> two older cats (12 teeth to extract between the two of them and one
>> who's managed to cut the skin open on his right side, and we don't know
>> how - he's getting stitched up right now), and I had a trip to the ER
>> last week for a kidney stone.
>> 
>> 
> The surgeons (of all types) must love seeing you walk in ;-) $$$$$

Yeah, indeed - all told, about $2K for the teeth extraction.  The "cut" 
isn't actually a cut, but a burn (just the top layer of skin was 
affected, and he wasn't in pain from it) as a result of what is assumed 
to be a faulty heating "pad" used during the dental work - so the vet is 
covering the cost of that recovery.

But our youngest cat is a $5K cat with all his health problems (possibly 
more than that, in fact).  Sucker lights visible from space, as far as 
the fur lumps are concerned.

>> That's an excellent idea - I didn't know you had background in training
>> -
>> I've done my own fair share of training development, delivery, and
>> managing programs.  Small world.
> 
> My own fault, really. I have always been a passionate advocate of
> training per se and when the position became vacant, the previous
> incumbent having gone to join Glaxo-Smith-Kline, I was the only one
> prepared to put my money where my mouth was.
> Seriously though, I enjoyed my few years there and would do the same if
> I was asked again.

I really enjoyed my time working in training as well - learned a lot 
about learning, which really suited me.  Still looking for something 
along those lines while I keep doing the tech writing thing.

Jim
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

On 14/03/14 14:08, Francois Labreque wrote:
> 
> Two little boys were in a hospital bedroom.
> 
> Timmy:  So?  What are you in for?
> Samuel:  Getting my tonsils removed.
> Timmy:  Ah.  I had that when I was 7.  Best. Thing. Ever.  No school for
> a week, and all the ice cream you want!
> Samuel:  Cool.  And you?
> Timmy: Circumcision.
> Samuel:  Yikes!  I had one when I was born... It took me a year before I
> could walk!

ROTFLMAO

John (still laughing)
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

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On 14/03/14 17:39, Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
> It is amazing how readily a parent notices things like that - when Ken 
> was younger, I had a similar experience on more than one occasion.
> 

I normally sleep like a log. In 1987 I slept right through the 'Great
Storm' in spite of a tree falling right outside my bedroom and its
branches smashing a ground floor window. I have also slept through an
earthquake and a police drugs raid on a flat next to mine. But, anything
unusual with regard to the Feegle or the Kat, I'm instantly alert. Must
be something to do with the 'preservation of the species'.

> 
> But our youngest cat is a $5K cat with all his health problems (possibly 
> more than that, in fact).  Sucker lights visible from space, as far as 
> the fur lumps are concerned.
> 

On that subject, I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn. Price negotiable
but I'll throw in 5 year's pet insurance if you agree to a minimum
upfront payment of $5,000,000.

> 
> I really enjoyed my time working in training as well - learned a lot 
> about learning, which really suited me.  Still looking for something 
> along those lines while I keep doing the tech writing thing.
> 

Good luck with that.

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 19:25:11 +0000, Doctor John wrote:

> On 14/03/14 17:39, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> 
>> It is amazing how readily a parent notices things like that - when Ken
>> was younger, I had a similar experience on more than one occasion.
>> 
>> 
> I normally sleep like a log. In 1987 I slept right through the 'Great
> Storm' in spite of a tree falling right outside my bedroom and its
> branches smashing a ground floor window. I have also slept through an
> earthquake and a police drugs raid on a flat next to mine. But, anything
> unusual with regard to the Feegle or the Kat, I'm instantly alert. Must
> be something to do with the 'preservation of the species'.

It really must.  I normally sleep really well as well, but if Amy has any 
kind of medical issue in the middle of the night, I tend to be quite 
awake very quickly.  (We went through a period of time where she had all 
the symptoms of an ulcer, but without an actual ulcer - the doctors were 
stumped, but we toured most of the ERs in the Salt Lake valley).

>> But our youngest cat is a $5K cat with all his health problems
>> (possibly more than that, in fact).  Sucker lights visible from space,
>> as far as the fur lumps are concerned.
>> 
>> 
> On that subject, I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn. Price negotiable
> but I'll throw in 5 year's pet insurance if you agree to a minimum
> upfront payment of $5,000,000.

I should've clarified that our 'sucker' lights are only visible to 
animals.  :)

And Eiyrt is on his way back to the vet again - nothing serious, just the 
bandage slipped.  And Mushi is pissed off that his brothers are home 
again (I guess they smell like the vet's, which isn't surprising since 
they spent the night there).

>> I really enjoyed my time working in training as well - learned a lot
>> about learning, which really suited me.  Still looking for something
>> along those lines while I keep doing the tech writing thing.
>> 
>> 
> Good luck with that.

Thanks - I got a lead on something earlier in the week, but the company's 
recruiting website has a login (of course), and somehow I got one created 
with a nonstandard name and no 'secret question' - and of course it's 
locked out, so now I can't get my info submitted for the job until I hear 
back from them.

That it's taking their help desk the better part of a week to get back to 
me isn't impressing me.

Jim
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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On 13/03/2014 11:13 PM, Doctor John wrote:

>
> BTW Ignoring Teledata, AirCall was a real disaster management system.
> Ask Stephen about Piper Alpha

If that is an invitation to join in, I will.

If you don’t know about the “Piper – A” disaster then the Wiki page is 
quite detailed.

I was on the Piper about seven or eight years before she blew up. And it 
was a shithole. Please excuse the lack of *, #, !, or even # (nor, thus 
she made here great P). Production was god and maintenance was a 
swearword. There was another rig on the pipeline that pumped its export 
into the Piper, as she burned, for about two hours (not losing 
production, in the process). That’s what the bottom line means.
The disaster management system seemed to be “let’s hope it doesn’t happen”.
But WTF they were just numbers on the news. When it comes down to the 
bottom line.

Maybe more thought from chairman me, tomorrow. ;-)



-- 
Regards
     Stephen

I solemnly promise to kick the next angle, I see.

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On 14/03/2014 7:25 PM, Doctor John wrote:
> On that subject, I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn. Price negotiable
> but I'll throw in 5 year's pet insurance if you agree to a minimum
> upfront payment of $5,000,000.

Come on! No one would fall for that twice. ;-)

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

I solemnly promise to kick the next angle, I see.

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On 12/03/2014 3:58 PM, Doctor John wrote:
> On 12/03/14 13:37, Francois Labreque wrote:
>>
>> Indians have a respect for authority that is almost as deeply rooted as
>> the Japanese's.  So low-level employees will stick to procedure and not
>> show any initiative, for fear of running afoul of higher ups.  Even if
>> the person you spoke to knew that you were probably right, he needed to
>> follow his script.
>>
>
> A good point.
>
> There was an article in New Scientist a couple of years ago that related
> the behaviour of bi- and tri-lingual children and teenagers when
> speaking any one of their particular languages. As I recall, a
> Japanese/English speaking kid would be considerably more polite and
> deferential when speaking Japanese than when speaking English.
>

In my day job. I often work with developers based in India and encounter 
similar attitudes. They will not say no to their client. Even when 
someone has an unworkable workload they will accept more. When it cannot 
be met the reasons always absolve them. The Raj taught them well. ;-)

They on the other hand found it unbelievable that our management 
scheduled a “go-live” just before Diwali. When surely we knew that there 
would be no one available for support. (Yet again, the heroes prevailed.)



-- 
Regards
     Stephen

I solemnly promise to kick the next angle, I see.

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> Try 'ping -i 60 www.google.com >> pingfile.txt'

In the end I set up a small script to output the date/time and then the 
result of 5 pings, this then gets run every minute by cron. I then wrote 
a small C# program on my windows box to grab the log from the pi and 
process it into CSV format for general graphing and analysis in Excel. 
It's only a few regex's but my Linux knowledge is limited so would have 
spent hours trying to do it on the pi. Also my BT modem handily has a 
USB socket on the back which I can power the pi from, so it's all pretty 
neat.

As you can imagine though there were no errors at all since Friday 
evening when I got it running. 1 ping was not received out of about 15k 
sent, and the response times were all pretty normal. BT did indeed phone 
back when they promised (I even got a text to remind me) but of course 
their comment was that the line is stable. I did persuade them to carry 
on their "test" for another 5 days, I hope it breaks during this time.

Post a reply to this message

On 17/03/14 13:47, scott wrote:
>> Try 'ping -i 60 www.google.com >> pingfile.txt'
> 
> In the end I set up a small script to output the date/time and then the
> result of 5 pings, this then gets run every minute by cron. I then wrote
> a small C# program on my windows box to grab the log from the pi and
> process it into CSV format for general graphing and analysis in Excel.
> It's only a few regex's but my Linux knowledge is limited so would have
> spent hours trying to do it on the pi. Also my BT modem handily has a
> USB socket on the back which I can power the pi from, so it's all pretty
> neat.
> 

That's one way of doing it. ;-)

> As you can imagine though there were no errors at all since Friday
> evening when I got it running. 1 ping was not received out of about 15k
> sent, and the response times were all pretty normal. BT did indeed phone
> back when they promised (I even got a text to remind me) but of course
> their comment was that the line is stable. I did persuade them to carry
> on their "test" for another 5 days, I hope it breaks during this time.
> 

I'm amazed you managed to persuade them to carry on testing for another
5 days. I'm not sure whether to hope it does break or whether to hope
that an intermittent fault has fixed itself.

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

Post a reply to this message

On 17/03/2014 01:47 PM, scott wrote:
>> Try 'ping -i 60 www.google.com >> pingfile.txt'
>
> In the end I set up a small script to output the date/time and then the
> result of 5 pings, this then gets run every minute by cron. I then wrote
> a small C# program on my windows box to grab the log from the pi and
> process it into CSV format for general graphing and analysis in Excel.
> It's only a few regex's but my Linux knowledge is limited so would have
> spent hours trying to do it on the pi. Also my BT modem handily has a
> USB socket on the back which I can power the pi from, so it's all pretty
> neat.

At my last place, I ended up writing a small Tcl/Tk script to do more or 
less the same thing (but with trippy statistics like standard 
deviation). I also wrote a script to do trace-route against half a dozen 
Internet hosts so if the link went down, I could tell where it went 
down. (Half the problem with spotting fault behaviour is knowing what 
normal behaviour looks like.)

And then our HQ IT guys blocked all ICMP traffic at the firewall, and 
all my hard work was rendered useless. Thanks, guys.

Post a reply to this message

On 17/03/2014 06:38 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> And then our HQ IT guys blocked all ICMP traffic at the firewall, and
> all my hard work was rendered useless. Thanks, guys.

Why no, I'm not still bitter about my last job. Why do you ask?

Post a reply to this message

On 17/03/2014 6:42 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> On 17/03/2014 06:38 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>> And then our HQ IT guys blocked all ICMP traffic at the firewall, and
>> all my hard work was rendered useless. Thanks, guys.
>
> Why no, I'm not still bitter about my last job. Why do you ask?

Because being undervalued is embittering?


-- 
Regards
     Stephen

I solemnly promise to kick the next angle, I see.

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 20:04:58 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 17/03/2014 6:42 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>> On 17/03/2014 06:38 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>> And then our HQ IT guys blocked all ICMP traffic at the firewall, and
>>> all my hard work was rendered useless. Thanks, guys.
>>
>> Why no, I'm not still bitter about my last job. Why do you ask?
> 
> Because being undervalued is embittering?

Absolutely.

Jim
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

Post a reply to this message

> I'm amazed you managed to persuade them to carry on testing for another
> 5 days. I'm not sure whether to hope it does break or whether to hope
> that an intermittent fault has fixed itself.

It's very intermittent, I've only noticed it happening for periods of 
15-30 mins every week or so, it's been going on for months, maybe 
longer. I only really noticed it when I started playing iRacing 
seriously and it really messes things up if your connection repeatedly 
drops - imagine racing close behind someone who then disappears for a 
second or so, then reappears not quite where you expected them to be :-O 
Also the software dumps you back to the pits if you disconnect for more 
than a few seconds, which is bad for your rating (complete disconnect or 
quit counts as finishing last).

I even tried my old Sky modem for a while and the same thing happened. 
Interestingly I got closer to a reported 4 mbit connection with the Sky 
modem, usually I get just under 3 mbit with the BT one. Thought I better 
switch it back to the BT one before calling them though...

Post a reply to this message

> At my last place, I ended up writing a small Tcl/Tk script to do more or
> less the same thing (but with trippy statistics like standard
> deviation). I also wrote a script to do trace-route against half a dozen
> Internet hosts so if the link went down, I could tell where it went
> down. (Half the problem with spotting fault behaviour is knowing what
> normal behaviour looks like.)

Well on my modem "normal" behaviour is a ping of about 35 ms to google 
and 5 packets received out of 5 sent. Above 100 ms or less than 5 
received is not normal.

So just to update, after 3 calls to India an actual physical real person 
came round to my house to have a look. He tested the line from the 
socket and also the outside of the house and said actually the line was 
better than average. He replaced the wall socket and gave me a new modem 
anyway to rule those out, but couldn't find any problem at all with the 
line. Interestingly initially the modem was connected at 5mbit instead 
of the normal 3, and ping was down to under 20ms to google. But after a 
few hours the ping suddenly jumped back up to 35ms, and the speed has 
gradually come down to about 4.5mbit now.

He had a chart on his laptop that showed the connection quality for the 
last 14 days, and the red blocks matched my chart :-) But he had no idea 
why it was behaving like that :-( At the moment I can't be bothered to 
take another 1/2 day off work just to be told the same again, but I'll 
continue to keep logging...

I suppose ideally he would leave his DSL analyser box thingy connected 
to the line for a few days until it drops, but BT probably don't do that 
for a mere residential customer.

Post a reply to this message

On 26/03/14 11:27, scott wrote:
> Well on my modem "normal" behaviour is a ping of about 35 ms to google
> and 5 packets received out of 5 sent. Above 100 ms or less than 5
> received is not normal.
> 

On my slowest machine:
--- www.google.com ping statistics ---
7 packets transmitted, 7 received, 0% packet loss, time 6010ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 6.985/7.721/8.708/0.578 ms

> 
> I suppose ideally he would leave his DSL analyser box thingy connected
> to the line for a few days until it drops, but BT probably don't do that
> for a mere residential customer.
> 

My real person was prepared to do so if he hadn't found the corroded
terminals. Maybe a quick note to Warren Buckley's office is called for

John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

Post a reply to this message

> On my slowest machine:
> --- www.google.com ping statistics ---
> 7 packets transmitted, 7 received, 0% packet loss, time 6010ms
> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 6.985/7.721/8.708/0.578 ms

It doesn't seem to make any difference which machine it's on, or whether 
it's wifi or wired, the first hop on tracert to the modem is always 1 or 
2 ms, then the 2nd hop (presumably to a BT server) is up to 30+ ms, so 
that is where the bottleneck is. When it "goes slow" just before or 
after dropping out it's always the first hop after my modem that shows 
the huge delay.

> My real person was prepared to do so if he hadn't found the corroded
> terminals.

I'll leave it logging for a week or two so I have some significant data 
to show, so far though the phone support has been fine. Each time they 
answered within a couple of minutes and called back exactly when they 
said they would after doing tests.

> Maybe a quick note to Warren Buckley's office is called for

I'll keep that as a last resort!

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