Yes, it is true. After THREE MONTHS of waiting, the vendor's solicitors 
have FINALLY released the draft contract.

Finally step #1 of my house purchase can actually begin...

Fun fact: For three months the estate agent has been promising me that 
the contract would appear in the next day or so. Every time a difference 
excuse as to why it hasn't happened yet, but "it's fixed now". On Monday 
my mother phoned them and suggested that I might pull out of the deal. 
By Friday of the same week, the contract had appeared.

Post a reply to this message

OK, so today I received a huge, bulging envelope stuffed with dense 
legal documents.

I swear to God, one document had an entire paragraph that took up a 
quarter of a page and contained no punctuation of any kind.

The really frightening thing was the one that had three sides of A4 
printed entirely in Helvetica 3-point. Do you have ANY IDEA how tiny 
that is?? Because, if you don't, it's three seventy-seconds of one inch, 
which is approximately equal to 1.058 mm. That's REALLY small.

Clearly I'm going to have to have a long conversation with my solicitors 
about this...

Post a reply to this message

Orchid Win7 v1 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> three seventy-seconds of one inch

I think that at least *some* Americans realize how ridiculous the
imperial measurement system is. It's a petty that resistance to change
is such a huge psychological phenomenon that it's not going to change
any time soon.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

On 18/07/2013 11:51 PM, Warp wrote:
> Orchid Win7 v1 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> three seventy-seconds of one inch
>
> I think that at least *some* Americans realize how ridiculous the
> imperial measurement system is. It's a petty that resistance to change
> is such a huge psychological phenomenon that it's not going to change
> any time soon.
>

Thus Spake Zarathustra.

The imperial system was not developed to make calculations easier but 
people's lives easier. If you have been brought up with it you will know 
how it describes the external world in a way that relates to human 
scales. I use both at work and at home and I much prefer inches and feet 
to centimetres and meters. It also has a sense of poetry to it.
So if it makes you think how many feet to a mile (5280) is that a bad thing?

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> The imperial system was not developed to make calculations easier but 
> people's lives easier. If you have been brought up with it you will know 
> how it describes the external world in a way that relates to human 
> scales. I use both at work and at home and I much prefer inches and feet 
> to centimetres and meters. It also has a sense of poetry to it.
> So if it makes you think how many feet to a mile (5280) is that a bad thing?

It doesn't matter which measurement system is used: If you have grown up
using it, it will feel "most natural" to you. To a person who has grown
up using the metric system it feels the most natural.

The thing is, the metric system is much more practical. It can easily be
used to measure very small and very large quantities and, what's more
important, converting between quantities is a lot easier.

How many millimeters are there in a meter? How many grams are there in a
kilogram? You don't have to actually make any calculations whatsoever.
You just shift the decimal point.

And you can go to very small scales, even ridiculously small scales,
without having to resort to awkward amounts.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

On 19/07/2013 08:42 AM, Warp wrote:
> It doesn't matter which measurement system is used: If you have grown up
> using it, it will feel "most natural" to you. To a person who has grown
> up using the metric system it feels the most natural.

Indeed.

> How many millimeters are there in a meter? How many grams are there in a
> kilogram? You don't have to actually make any calculations whatsoever.
> You just shift the decimal point.

How many cubic millimeters are there in a cubic meter?

A surprising number of adults appear to not actually know the correct 
answer to this...

Post a reply to this message

> The imperial system was not developed to make calculations easier but
> people's lives easier.

It just evolved as a mish-mash of whatever units people found best to be 
using individually for certain things. Nobody "designed" the system as a 
whole to work together.

> If you have been brought up with it you will know
> how it describes the external world in a way that relates to human
> scales.

You obviously find it easier only because you were brought up with it, 
for almost every other country in the world they find metric easier 
because that's what they were brought up with.

Also inches aren't suited for things the width of a human or smaller, 
which is exactly why you end up using crazy fractions like 3/8, 5/16 and 
29/32. I bet most people you stopped in the street wouldn't be able to 
add those 3 numbers together (and many probably couldn't even tell you 
the smallest). Or tell you how long it would be if you needed 1000 lots 
of 5/16. Try the same with 8, 9 and 23 mm it's - trivial.

Post a reply to this message

Orchid Win7 v1 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> How many cubic millimeters are there in a cubic meter?

> A surprising number of adults appear to not actually know the correct 
> answer to this...

Fortunately things are seldom measured in cubic meters. Liters do just
fine.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

> It doesn't matter which measurement system is used: If you have grown up
> using it, it will feel "most natural" to you. To a person who has grown
> up using the metric system it feels the most natural.

Indeed, and a way to judge which one is "better" is to look at what 
happens when people are forced to change and stop using the old system 
completely.

In the UK in 1971 we changed from using a pound divided into 20 
shillings and a shilling in 12 pence to the new "metric" system of 100 
pence in a pound. Everyone was forced to make the change, you couldn't 
continue with the old system. Initially people complained and got 
confused, but very quickly afterwards everybody realised it was a far 
superior and easier to use system. *Nobody* I have ever spoken to (who 
was alive at the time) would want to go back to the old system and 
everyone generally thinks it was a good decision. At the time however I 
bet there were loads of people against it. People just don't like change.

Post a reply to this message

scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> > It doesn't matter which measurement system is used: If you have grown up
> > using it, it will feel "most natural" to you. To a person who has grown
> > up using the metric system it feels the most natural.
>
> Indeed, and a way to judge which one is "better" is to look at what
> happens when people are forced to change and stop using the old system
> completely.
>
> In the UK in 1971 we changed from using a pound divided into 20
> shillings and a shilling in 12 pence to the new "metric" system of 100
> pence in a pound. Everyone was forced to make the change, you couldn't
> continue with the old system. Initially people complained and got
> confused, but very quickly afterwards everybody realised it was a far
> superior and easier to use system. *Nobody* I have ever spoken to (who
> was alive at the time) would want to go back to the old system and
> everyone generally thinks it was a good decision. At the time however I
> bet there were loads of people against it. People just don't like change.

LOL
It is really perversity (and trolling). I was hoping the Zarathustra comment
would give it away. (I was referring to my utterances not Warp.)
I went through a lot of effort and pain (literally) to learn and remember that
there were 240 pee (written d) in a pound and there were fourteen pounds in a
stone etc. The only thing that you can say for the imperial system is that it
keeps your mind active, by necessity. Well It was romantic sounding too. I mean
39 thou makes it sound as if you know what you are talking about and spending a
bawbee or a florin has a ring to it.
And yes I was around at “decimalisation” and you are not wrong. People did
complain and it is easier to use.

Stephen the Elder (but not of the kirk)

Post a reply to this message

> I mean
> 39 thou makes it sound as if you know what you are talking about

Unless you say 39 mil, and then just confuse everyone :-)

Post a reply to this message

Am 19.07.2013 09:56, schrieb scott:

> Also inches aren't suited for things the width of a human or smaller,
> which is exactly why you end up using crazy fractions like 3/8, 5/16 and
> 29/32. I bet most people you stopped in the street wouldn't be able to
> add those 3 numbers together (and many probably couldn't even tell you
> the smallest). Or tell you how long it would be if you needed 1000 lots
> of 5/16. Try the same with 8, 9 and 23 mm it's - trivial.

The use of fractions, all by itself, is still on the fun side; just wait 
until you have to express longer distances to high precision, as in "2 
ft 3 1/4 in".

Post a reply to this message

On 18/07/2013 10:51 PM, Warp wrote:
> Orchid Win7 v1<voi### [at] devnull>  wrote:
>> three seventy-seconds of one inch
>
> I think that at least *some* Americans realize how ridiculous the
> imperial measurement system is. It's a petty that resistance to change
> is such a huge psychological phenomenon that it's not going to change
> any time soon.

In fairness, the "printer's point" is one of those obscure measurements 
which is only used in one specific field - much like the Troy ounce, the 
carat, or the furlong...

Post a reply to this message

Am 19.07.2013 20:09, schrieb Orchid Win7 v1:

> In fairness, the "printer's point" is one of those obscure measurements
> which is only used in one specific field - much like the Troy ounce, the
> carat, or the furlong...

BTW, does anyone outside the world of printed circuit board design ever 
use the measurement "mil"?

Post a reply to this message

On Sat, 13 Jul 2013 09:24:17 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

> Yes, it is true. After THREE MONTHS of waiting, the vendor's solicitors
> have FINALLY released the draft contract.
> 
> Finally step #1 of my house purchase can actually begin...
> 
> Fun fact: For three months the estate agent has been promising me that
> the contract would appear in the next day or so. Every time a difference
> excuse as to why it hasn't happened yet, but "it's fixed now". On Monday
> my mother phoned them and suggested that I might pull out of the deal.
> By Friday of the same week, the contract had appeared.

Sounds like the tactic your mother used is something to learn from. ;)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

>> Fun fact: For three months the estate agent has been promising me that
>> the contract would appear in the next day or so. Every time a difference
>> excuse as to why it hasn't happened yet, but "it's fixed now". On Monday
>> my mother phoned them and suggested that I might pull out of the deal.
>> By Friday of the same week, the contract had appeared.
>
> Sounds like the tactic your mother used is something to learn from. ;)

It's astonishingly how quickly people can make stuff happen if they 
think there's money involved...

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 21:19:26 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

>>> Fun fact: For three months the estate agent has been promising me that
>>> the contract would appear in the next day or so. Every time a
>>> difference excuse as to why it hasn't happened yet, but "it's fixed
>>> now". On Monday my mother phoned them and suggested that I might pull
>>> out of the deal. By Friday of the same week, the contract had
>>> appeared.
>>
>> Sounds like the tactic your mother used is something to learn from. ;)
> 
> It's astonishingly how quickly people can make stuff happen if they
> think there's money involved...

More accurately, if they think they're going to lose money. ;)

But yes, what your mother did is something to keep in mind.  They want 
you to continue to be a customer, and if you decide that they're wasting 
your time and are going to leave, if there's enough money in it for them 
to react in a way other than "OK, see'ya", they'll get things moving.

There are always plenty of estate agents and solicitors around, so that's 
a tactic that can work well in cases like this.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Orchid Win7 v1 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> In fairness, the "printer's point" is one of those obscure measurements 
> which is only used in one specific field - much like the Troy ounce, the 
> carat, or the furlong...

Are barrels used for anything else than oil?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

On 19/07/2013 8:45 PM, clipka wrote:
>
> BTW, does anyone outside the world of printed circuit board design ever
> use the measurement "mil"?

I've never used it.
I have used Mils and thought that was generic British for I'm working in 
that foreign stuff.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 19/07/2013 09:35 PM, Warp wrote:
> Orchid Win7 v1<voi### [at] devnull>  wrote:
>> In fairness, the "printer's point" is one of those obscure measurements
>> which is only used in one specific field - much like the Troy ounce, the
>> carat, or the furlong...
>
> Are barrels used for anything else than oil?

According to Wikipedia, it also measures beer, cornmeal, Portland 
cement, sugar, flour, lime and cranberries.

Note also that ALL of these "barrels" are standardised BUT COMPLETELY 
UNRELATED sizes. (!!)

(That is, a "barrel" of flour is utterly unrelated to the weight or 
volume or a "barrel" of cement.)

So much for weird historical units...

Post a reply to this message

On 19/07/2013 11:15 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>
> According to Wikipedia, it also measures beer, cornmeal, Portland
> cement, sugar, flour, lime and cranberries.

"Also" is a good word. It means that my vague memory is correct. Phew!

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

> According to Wikipedia, it also measures beer, cornmeal, Portland
> cement, sugar, flour, lime and cranberries.

I should perhaps clarify that it's "lime" as in calcium hydroxide, not 
as in the fruit. (How would THAT work?? Then again, cranberries...)

Post a reply to this message

On 19/07/2013 11:48 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>> According to Wikipedia, it also measures beer, cornmeal, Portland
>> cement, sugar, flour, lime and cranberries.
>
> I should perhaps clarify that it's "lime" as in calcium hydroxide, not
> as in the fruit. (How would THAT work?? Then again, cranberries...)

Do you have any idea why Americans call us Limeys?

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Am 19.07.2013 23:00, schrieb Stephen:
> On 19/07/2013 8:45 PM, clipka wrote:
>>
>> BTW, does anyone outside the world of printed circuit board design ever
>> use the measurement "mil"?
>
> I've never used it.
> I have used Mils and thought that was generic British for I'm working in
> that foreign stuff.

That "mil" I'm speaking of (plural "mils", but I've never encountered 
that in the PCB layout software I'm using) apparently is American 
English for "thou".

Post a reply to this message

Am 19.07.2013 23:55, schrieb Stephen:
> On 19/07/2013 11:48 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>> According to Wikipedia, it also measures beer, cornmeal, Portland
>>> cement, sugar, flour, lime and cranberries.
>>
>> I should perhaps clarify that it's "lime" as in calcium hydroxide, not
>> as in the fruit. (How would THAT work?? Then again, cranberries...)
>
> Do you have any idea why Americans call us Limeys?

Because (or so claims Wikipedia) your forefathers, when going to sea, 
added lemon or lime juice to their grog to prevent scurvy.

Germans used Sauerkraut for the same purpose (or so I've heard tell), 
hence the Americans calling us Krauts.

Not sure what the Americans used themselves; I must presume they were 
just too plain stupid to do anything about it :-P

Post a reply to this message

On 19/07/2013 11:57 PM, clipka wrote:
>
> That "mil" I'm speaking of (plural "mils", but I've never encountered
> that in the PCB layout software I'm using) apparently is American
> English for "thou".

It rings a bell but I've never used it myself. But then I worked in 
manufacturing. PCB's were either bought in to assemble or to fit in a 
machine. Not even systems, some of them.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 20/07/2013 12:09 AM, clipka wrote:
> Am 19.07.2013 23:55, schrieb Stephen:
>> On 19/07/2013 11:48 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>>> According to Wikipedia, it also measures beer, cornmeal, Portland
>>>> cement, sugar, flour, lime and cranberries.
>>>
>>> I should perhaps clarify that it's "lime" as in calcium hydroxide, not
>>> as in the fruit. (How would THAT work?? Then again, cranberries...)
>>
>> Do you have any idea why Americans call us Limeys?
>
> Because (or so claims Wikipedia) your forefathers, when going to sea,
> added lemon or lime juice to their grog to prevent scurvy.
>
> Germans used Sauerkraut for the same purpose (or so I've heard tell),
> hence the Americans calling us Krauts.
>
> Not sure what the Americans used themselves; I must presume they were
> just too plain stupid to do anything about it :-P
>


They used lemons which are a better source of vitamin C.
There was some skulduggery going on at the time between us and the rest 
of the world. And no one would sell the Brits lemons. So we used limes 
from one of the islands in the Caribbean. Hence Limeys.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:31:27 +0200, Stephen wrote:

> On 20/07/2013 12:09 AM, clipka wrote:
>> Am 19.07.2013 23:55, schrieb Stephen:
>>> On 19/07/2013 11:48 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>>>> According to Wikipedia, it also measures beer, cornmeal, Portland
>>>>> cement, sugar, flour, lime and cranberries.
>>>>
>>>> I should perhaps clarify that it's "lime" as in calcium hydroxide,
>>>> not as in the fruit. (How would THAT work?? Then again,
>>>> cranberries...)
>>>
>>> Do you have any idea why Americans call us Limeys?
>>
>> Because (or so claims Wikipedia) your forefathers, when going to sea,
>> added lemon or lime juice to their grog to prevent scurvy.
>>
>> Germans used Sauerkraut for the same purpose (or so I've heard tell),
>> hence the Americans calling us Krauts.
>>
>> Not sure what the Americans used themselves; I must presume they were
>> just too plain stupid to do anything about it :-P
>>
>>
> 
> They used lemons which are a better source of vitamin C.

Not initially, though.  They used "rob", which was a mix of sauerkraut 
and a concentrated fruit juice mixture, which was boiled.  Well, I guess 
the fruit juice concentrate could have been (or had as a component) 
lemon, so fair play on that. :)

> There was some skulduggery going on at the time between us and the rest
> of the world. And no one would sell the Brits lemons. So we used limes
> from one of the islands in the Caribbean. Hence Limeys.

First recorded use of "Lime juicer" (which became "limey") to refer to a 
Brit was 1859.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On 20/07/2013 12:50 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> Not initially, though.  They used "rob", which was a mix of sauerkraut
> and a concentrated fruit juice mixture, which was boiled.  Well, I guess
> the fruit juice concentrate could have been (or had as a component)
> lemon, so fair play on that.:)
>
>> >There was some skulduggery going on at the time between us and the rest
>> >of the world. And no one would sell the Brits lemons. So we used limes
>> >from one of the islands in the Caribbean. Hence Limeys.
> First recorded use of "Lime juicer" (which became "limey") to refer to a
> Brit was 1859.

I did not know any of that. I only found out about the embargo, recently.
I tried looking it up and guess it was another Stephen Fry lie, said in 
a convincing manor.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 01:27:21 +0200, Stephen wrote:

> On 20/07/2013 12:50 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Not initially, though.  They used "rob", which was a mix of sauerkraut
>> and a concentrated fruit juice mixture, which was boiled.  Well, I
>> guess the fruit juice concentrate could have been (or had as a
>> component) lemon, so fair play on that.:)
>>
>>> >There was some skulduggery going on at the time between us and the
>>> >rest of the world. And no one would sell the Brits lemons. So we used
>>> >limes from one of the islands in the Caribbean. Hence Limeys.
>> First recorded use of "Lime juicer" (which became "limey") to refer to
>> a Brit was 1859.
> 
> I did not know any of that. I only found out about the embargo,
> recently.
> I tried looking it up and guess it was another Stephen Fry lie, said in
> a convincing manor.

Well, I'll cop to my source being John Lloyd for that, and it wouldn't be 
the first time that I'd seen/heard something in one of his books that I 
knew wasn't quite correct.

OED cites an example from 1888 as its earliest citation, but OED doesn't 
always have the earliest, since the quotations are just examples. But it 
does confirm something I thought was the case, which is that it wasn't 
common to the US, but more common to other colonies, notably Australia, 
New Zeland, and South Africa. At least as an "English Immigrant".

In the US, the term comes along later (or at least the earliest quote 
citing it is later, 1918), referring to an English or British sailor. 
That actually does match up with the information in the Second Book of 
General Ignorance (the quotation uses "lime-juicer" to refer to the ship, 
and "limeys" to refer to the sailors).

But Mr. Fry doesn't do the research, generally, for QI.  I don't know 
that Lloyd does that much of it any more, either. ;)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Am 20.07.2013 01:27, schrieb Stephen:
> On 20/07/2013 12:50 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Not initially, though.  They used "rob", which was a mix of sauerkraut
>> and a concentrated fruit juice mixture, which was boiled.  Well, I guess
>> the fruit juice concentrate could have been (or had as a component)
>> lemon, so fair play on that.:)
>>
>>> >There was some skulduggery going on at the time between us and the rest
>>> >of the world. And no one would sell the Brits lemons. So we used limes
>>> >from one of the islands in the Caribbean. Hence Limeys.
>> First recorded use of "Lime juicer" (which became "limey") to refer to a
>> Brit was 1859.
>
> I did not know any of that. I only found out about the embargo, recently.
> I tried looking it up and guess it was another Stephen Fry lie, said in
> a convincing manor.

Never believe a person named Stephen ;-)

Post a reply to this message

On 19/07/2013 3:02 PM, clipka wrote:
> The use of fractions, all by itself, is still on the fun side; just wait
> until you have to express longer distances to high precision, as in "2
> ft 3 1/4 in".

What is wrong with saying "two feet, three and a quarter inches"?

But on a side issue. Our move to the SI system coinciding with cheap 
calculators means that younger people can no longer do sums in their 
head even with a very simple money system. And by younger I mean people 
in their early 30's. Shop assistants need a calculator to add two items 
then subtract it from the money tendered.I think that being forced to 
use your mind to do quite complex simple arithmetic, was no bad thing.

Lordy! Things were better in my day.
Heaven help the shopkeeper who tried to short change some one on a 
thrupenny ha'penny purchase when handing over a half crown. ;-)

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 20/07/2013 9:55 AM, clipka wrote:
> Never believe a person named Stephen ;-)

It didn't take you long to learn. :-P
Although believe ME. When I say that if it can be broken, I will break 
it. :-)

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Am 20.07.2013 11:05, schrieb Stephen:

> Lordy! Things were better in my day.

I bet! - Nowadays, even the good old times ain't what they used to be...

Post a reply to this message

On 20/07/2013 10:12 AM, clipka wrote:
> Am 20.07.2013 11:05, schrieb Stephen:
>
>> Lordy! Things were better in my day.
>
> I bet! - Nowadays, even the good old times ain't what they used to be...
>

How true. Notice that I did not mention being strapped (beaten by a 
leather strap on the hand) for bad spelling? Or even sneezing in class, 
as one boy, in my class, was.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 20/07/2013 3:29 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> Well, I'll cop to my source being John Lloyd for that, and it wouldn't be
> the first time that I'd seen/heard something in one of his books that I
> knew wasn't quite correct.
>

True. I would think that there is a team of researchers being used for QI.

> OED cites an example from 1888 as its earliest citation, but OED doesn't
> always have the earliest, since the quotations are just examples. But it
> does confirm something I thought was the case, which is that it wasn't
> common to the US, but more common to other colonies, notably Australia,
> New Zeland, and South Africa. At least as an "English Immigrant".
>

Our "received wisdom" is that it was Poms for Brits in the antipodes.
But you never can tell.

> In the US, the term comes along later (or at least the earliest quote
> citing it is later, 1918), referring to an English or British sailor.
> That actually does match up with the information in the Second Book of
> General Ignorance (the quotation uses "lime-juicer" to refer to the ship,
> and "limeys" to refer to the sailors).
>

Jack Tars, this side of the pond. Me lad!
Oo Arr!

BTW Did you know that Avast! Me hearties. Actually means "Stop what 
you're doing"?

> But Mr. Fry doesn't do the research, generally, for QI.  I don't know
> that Lloyd does that much of it any more, either.;)

Mr. Fry says more than his prayers, when he wants to impress. IMO.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 19/07/2013 11:31 PM, Stephen wrote:
> They used lemons which are a better source of vitamin C.

The daft thing is, blackcurrent is even better.

(Although I'm not sure how long that would last at sea...)

Post a reply to this message

clipka wrote:
> 
> BTW, does anyone outside the world of printed circuit board design ever
> use the measurement "mil"?
> 

Yes.


Swedish use it as a synonym for 10 kilometers. :-)

-Aero

Post a reply to this message

Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> Orchid Win7 v1 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> > three seventy-seconds of one inch
>
> I think that at least *some* Americans realize how ridiculous the
> imperial measurement system is. It's a petty that resistance to change
> is such a huge psychological phenomenon that it's not going to change
> any time soon.
>
> --
>                                                           - Warp

I actually had a laugh at the "three seventy" vs the usual "seventy three".  or
did he mean "3 x seventy-seconds"?

then again, I'm used to it from Sherlock Holmes books :)

Post a reply to this message

On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 10:45:38 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 20/07/2013 3:29 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Well, I'll cop to my source being John Lloyd for that, and it wouldn't
>> be the first time that I'd seen/heard something in one of his books
>> that I knew wasn't quite correct.
>>
>>
> True. I would think that there is a team of researchers being used for
> QI.

There is - they talk about it on the official site (and in the books). :)

>> OED cites an example from 1888 as its earliest citation, but OED
>> doesn't always have the earliest, since the quotations are just
>> examples. But it does confirm something I thought was the case, which
>> is that it wasn't common to the US, but more common to other colonies,
>> notably Australia, New Zeland, and South Africa. At least as an
>> "English Immigrant".
>>
>>
> Our "received wisdom" is that it was Poms for Brits in the antipodes.
> But you never can tell.

That's one of the goals QI has, though - to challenge the received 
wisdom. ;)

But clearly they don't always get it right. :)

>> In the US, the term comes along later (or at least the earliest quote
>> citing it is later, 1918), referring to an English or British sailor.
>> That actually does match up with the information in the Second Book of
>> General Ignorance (the quotation uses "lime-juicer" to refer to the
>> ship,
>> and "limeys" to refer to the sailors).
>>
>>
> Jack Tars, this side of the pond. Me lad!
> Oo Arr!
> 
> BTW Did you know that Avast! Me hearties. Actually means "Stop what
> you're doing"?

I didn't - well, I knew "Avast" was a way of saying "stop", but beyond 
that I didn't. :)

>> But Mr. Fry doesn't do the research, generally, for QI.  I don't know
>> that Lloyd does that much of it any more, either.;)
> 
> Mr. Fry says more than his prayers, when he wants to impress. IMO.

Given his lack of religious convictions, that's pretty easy to achieve, 
don't you think? ;)

Jim

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On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 18:33:06 -0400, nemesis wrote:

> Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>> Orchid Win7 v1 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> > three seventy-seconds of one inch
>>
>> I think that at least *some* Americans realize how ridiculous the
>> imperial measurement system is. It's a petty that resistance to change
>> is such a huge psychological phenomenon that it's not going to change
>> any time soon.
>>
>> --
>>                                                           - Warp
> 
> I actually had a laugh at the "three seventy" vs the usual "seventy
> three".  or did he mean "3 x seventy-seconds"?
> 
> then again, I'm used to it from Sherlock Holmes books :)

3/72 is what was meant (not sure if you were not getting that, or being 
silly)

Jim

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> BTW, does anyone outside the world of printed circuit board design ever
> use the measurement "mil"?

3M use mils for thickness of optical films - if it wasn't for the large 
difference in scale then it would have been very confusing.

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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 18:33:06 -0400, nemesis wrote:
>
> > Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> >> Orchid Win7 v1 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> >> > three seventy-seconds of one inch
> >>
> >> I think that at least *some* Americans realize how ridiculous the
> >> imperial measurement system is. It's a petty that resistance to change
> >> is such a huge psychological phenomenon that it's not going to change
> >> any time soon.
> >>
> >> --
> >>                                                           - Warp
> >
> > I actually had a laugh at the "three seventy" vs the usual "seventy
> > three".  or did he mean "3 x seventy-seconds"?
> >
> > then again, I'm used to it from Sherlock Holmes books :)
>
> 3/72 is what was meant (not sure if you were not getting that, or being
> silly)
>
> Jim

I think that if you are not used to the system it is easy to read it as three
times seventy seconds. Then when you realise what is meant you laugh at your
embarrassment at getting it wrong.
It is great how English words change their meaning depending on their context.

Stephen

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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 10:45:38 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
> > Mr. Fry says more than his prayers, when he wants to impress. IMO.
>
> Given his lack of religious convictions, that's pretty easy to achieve,
> don't you think? ;)
>


Oh! I don’t know if you know the phrase. It means “does not always tell the
truth”.

Stephen

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> It is great how English words change their meaning depending on their context.

Not just English - more or less every human language ever invented! ;-)

I especially enjoy how "and" sometimes means "or", and "or" sometimes 
means "and". No wonder students suck at Boolean algebra! :-D

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> I especially enjoy how "and" sometimes means "or", and "or" sometimes
> means "and". No wonder students suck at Boolean algebra! :-D

After an hour of boolean algebra our teacher announced that people with 
birthdays in April and May should stay behind. Obviously a few people 
stayed behind only to get yelled at :-)

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On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 05:58:11 -0400, Stephen wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 10:45:38 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>> > Mr. Fry says more than his prayers, when he wants to impress. IMO.
>>
>> Given his lack of religious convictions, that's pretty easy to achieve,
>> don't you think? ;)
>>
>>
> 
> Oh! I don’t know if you know the phrase. It means “does not 
always tell
> the truth”.
> 
> Stephen

Ah, that's a new one for me. :)

But I think all of us tell fibs now and again.  I don't think I've ever 
met anyone who's 100% truthful all the time, even those of us who try to 
be.

Jim

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On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 05:50:57 -0400, Stephen wrote:

> I think that if you are not used to the system it is easy to read it as
> three times seventy seconds. Then when you realise what is meant you
> laugh at your embarrassment at getting it wrong.

Oh, yes, I think so as well.  It's just that when I see a measurement, I 
don't think in terms of time. ;)

> It is great how English words change their meaning depending on their
> context.

Yep, also true in other languages, too. :)

Jim

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On 22/07/2013 11:29 AM, scott wrote:
>> I especially enjoy how "and" sometimes means "or", and "or" sometimes
>> means "and". No wonder students suck at Boolean algebra! :-D
>
> After an hour of boolean algebra our teacher announced that people with
> birthdays in April and May should stay behind. Obviously a few people
> stayed behind only to get yelled at :-)

PWN3D!

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On 22/07/2013 5:24 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> Oh, yes, I think so as well.  It's just that when I see a measurement, I
> don't think in terms of time.;)

Now we know why you failed your Time Lord exams. :-P

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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