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On 8/3/2012 10:30, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> Bandwidth and latency are not always connected. In fact, for a real
> situation, a satellite link (dedicated, you have $$$) is really a big
> bandwidth, yet the latency is uncompressible, and worse than a fiber to
> make a 100 miles trip.
That doesn't mean they have nothing to do with each other. Bandwidth over
the same connection and route affects the latency. They're not independent
variables. They're not linearly related, either.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Oh no! We're out of code juice!"
"Don't panic. There's beans and filters
in the cabinet."
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On 03/08/2012 06:30 PM, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> Please considere the bandwidth of a 747 filled with dual layer DVD-R (or
> now blu-ray).
> It will blast even your fiber, on raw value of provided bandwidth.
> Yet, the plane won't leave before it get full... may take a few hours of
> latency to cover the 100 miles (most on ground).
In general, if anything, latency seems to /increase/ with bandwidth,
unfortunately...
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Stephen <mcavoys_at@aoldotcom> wrote:
> On 03/08/2012 6:47 PM, Warp wrote:
> > However, the "in-between" form of my apartment might be unique to Finland
> > (or very few countries).
> >
> > Basically it's: "Pay 15% (or such) of the apartment's full price, and you
> > can live there cheaper than the rent of the same apartment would be, plus
> > you get more rights to the apartment than with a rented apartment (eg. you
> > can perform modifications and renovations to a much larger extent, and it's
> > a bit more difficult for the building's owner to kick you out, for insance)."
> It sounds similar to some of our Housing association schemes in the UK.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_association
> Co-op is reserved for:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Co-operative_Group
The Finnish websites that have information about this kind of housing
and which have translations to English seem to use the term
"right-of-occupancy housing". Making a google search with this only
gives Finnish websites, so either they are using an unconventional
term, or the housing mode itself is quite unconventional and unique
to Finland (and possibly Sweden)...
--
- Warp
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On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 10:18:33 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> There's something in the USA called a "time-share", where you own
> 1/52'nd of one apartment, and you get to use it during that week, with
> the intent that you use it for vacations. Another odd thing I don't
> think I've seen outside of north america.
*That's* what I was trying to think of. It does sound strikingly similar
in concept, except that the occupants live there full time.
Jim
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On 03/08/2012 7:18 PM, Warp wrote:
> Making a google search with this only
> gives Finnish websites,
That is true.
> so either they are using an unconventional
> term, or the housing mode itself is quite unconventional and unique
> to Finland (and possibly Sweden)...
It is certainly not common in Britain. Having said that it sounds like a
good idea. More power to your elbow!
--
Regards
Stephen
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Orchid Win7 v1wrote:
> >> Um, good luck with that...
> >
> > Cool thing is, it's quite likely to work, just like gmail did. :-)
>
> Well, I hope you're right and everything, but I'm not feeling too
> optimistic at this moment. Google clearly is, though. Saying that in 7
> years' time the rates for 10mbit/sec "will be $0"? That's fighting talk
> where I'm from. ;-)
It sounds like the predictions of electricity becoming, "too cheap to meter."
Things don't seem to have worked out quite like that.
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"waggy" <hon### [at] handbasket org> wrote:
> Orchid Win7 v1wrote:
> > >> Um, good luck with that...
> > >
> > > Cool thing is, it's quite likely to work, just like gmail did. :-)
> >
> > Well, I hope you're right and everything, but I'm not feeling too
> > optimistic at this moment. Google clearly is, though. Saying that in 7
> > years' time the rates for 10mbit/sec "will be $0"? That's fighting talk
> > where I'm from. ;-)
>
> It sounds like the predictions of electricity becoming, "too cheap to meter."
> Things don't seem to have worked out quite like that.
well, nowadays we have so much more electrical appliances around in the house
than people in the 50's, say, and yet I'm sure we don't need to be millionaires
to afford such extravaganza...
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>>> Well, I hope you're right and everything, but I'm not feeling too
>>> optimistic at this moment. Google clearly is, though. Saying that in 7
>>> years' time the rates for 10mbit/sec "will be $0"? That's fighting talk
>>> where I'm from. ;-)
>>
>> It sounds like the predictions of electricity becoming, "too cheap to meter."
>> Things don't seem to have worked out quite like that.
>
> well, nowadays we have so much more electrical appliances around in the house
> than people in the 50's, say, and yet I'm sure we don't need to be millionaires
> to afford such extravaganza...
Yeah. I think the idea is that 5mbit/sec will be free, because everybody
will be paying money for multiple *gigabits* per second, so nobody will
care about mere megabits any more...
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Le 2012-08-03 04:09, Invisible a écrit :
>> A few years ago, the carriers only installe dit when some cities would
>> require "fibre to the home" for any new development, but now customers
>> are asking for it, so they have no choice, or irsk losing those
>> customers to the competition.
>
> Maybe in your country. Over here, most people don't even realise that
> it's /possible/ to have fiber to your house. (Or that this would be
> beneficial somehow.) Like I said, BT is currently heavily pushing it's
> "Infinity" product, which is basically fiber to the kerb, giving a 10x
> speed boost. Not 200x, just 10x. And it's not cheap. And it's not
> available in 80% of the country. And it won't be available for years...
>
>>> They're talking about 200x more speed. That's epic, right there.
>>
>> Yeah, moving from cat 3 copper wies to fibre optics will do that!
>
> Well, you say that... My employer has a dedicated fiber connection, and
> it has a maximum speed of 10 mbit/sec. (We actually pay for 5mbit/sec.
> Costs about £30,000/year, IIRC. Then again, that's because we get
> business-grade reliability guarantees...)
That's because of the protocol overhead, and type of fibre, and also
probably the fact that you share a fiber strand with other customers
further down the road. Fibre optics can go up to 10 Gbps for each 20nm
of wavelength. So, with the proper hardware, which is far from cheap,
you can have multiple 10 Gbps pipes going down one fibre strand. We've
been through that before.
>
>>> Internet access is a little different. All Hotmail had to do was
>>> /literally/ press a button and everybody got a 500x storage limit
>>> increase. You can't do that with bandwidth.
>>
>> Sure they can. They've been offering HDTV signals over wire for the past
>> 5 years, this means the infrastructure is there to support that bandwith.
>
> I don't know about you, but we receive out HDTV signals over the
> airwaves, not over copper.
>
Here, we can have either. I have religious objections to giving money
to the traditional* phone company (which also operates the satellite tv
offering), so my phone, tv and internet package is from the traditional*
cable supplier via a standard coax cable.
>> The same thing happened 20 years ago when cable providers decided to
>> become internet providers since they already had enough bandwidth to
>> send 60 to 80 tv channels to every home... using one for data signals
>> was not a problem at all.
>>
>> This forced the phone companies to massively upgrade their networks to
>> support faster and faster aDSL services.
>
> I don't even know what "cable" is.
Yes you do. When you said you didn't know what cable was a few months
ago, I showed you the link to Wikipedia, and you even admitted your
parents used to have cable tv, before ditching it for a satellite dish.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_tv
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_Internet
Footnotes:
*We used to a have a telco monopoly and a cable tv monopoly, but with
the switch to digital signals, both carriers now offer both services,
plus video on demand, etc...
--
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/* flabreque */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/* @ */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/* gmail.com */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }
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>>>> They're talking about 200x more speed. That's epic, right there.
>>>
>>> Yeah, moving from cat 3 copper wies to fibre optics will do that!
>>
>> Well, you say that... My employer has a dedicated fiber connection, and
>> it has a maximum speed of 10 mbit/sec. (We actually pay for 5mbit/sec.
>> Costs about £30,000/year, IIRC. Then again, that's because we get
>> business-grade reliability guarantees...)
>
> That's because of the protocol overhead, and type of fibre, and also
> probably the fact that you share a fiber strand with other customers
> further down the road. Fibre optics can go up to 10 Gbps for each 20nm
> of wavelength. So, with the proper hardware, which is far from cheap,
> you can have multiple 10 Gbps pipes going down one fibre strand. We've
> been through that before.
Apparently it depends on whether it's single-mode fiber or multi-mode
fiber or whatever. Much like there are different grades of copper wire,
there are presumably different grades of fiber. The one laid to our
building can only handle 10mbit/sec max. If we want more, we have to pay
for them to run another fiber. (Although apparently the next one up tops
out at 100mbit/sec. I shudder to think what that costs...)
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