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Le 03/08/2012 19:21, Darren New nous fit lire :
> On 8/2/2012 13:12, clipka wrote:
>> On a typical point-to-point link between a gamer's computer and the
>> internet
>> provider, the data transfer rate has absolutely, positively /nothing/
>> to do
>> with latency.
>
> This isn't true. The higher the throughput, the faster the end of the
> packet arrives after the beginning has been sent.
>
> Send a 1K packet 100 miles over a 300-baud modem. Now send a 1K packet
> 100 miles over a gigabit fiber. Which gets there first if you start them
> at the same time?
>
A case does not make a general truth.
Please considere the bandwidth of a 747 filled with dual layer DVD-R (or
now blu-ray).
It will blast even your fiber, on raw value of provided bandwidth.
Yet, the plane won't leave before it get full... may take a few hours of
latency to cover the 100 miles (most on ground).
Bandwidth and latency are not always connected. In fact, for a real
situation, a satellite link (dedicated, you have $$$) is really a big
bandwidth, yet the latency is uncompressible, and worse than a fiber to
make a 100 miles trip.
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Darren New <dne### [at] san rrcom> wrote:
> On 8/3/2012 5:31, Warp wrote:
> > I think the Finnish term that most accurately corresponds to this is
> > "asunto-osake", which literally means "apartment share" (as in a stock
> > market share). I think that you literally buy a share (in the exact same
> > way as you would buy shares of any compnay) and you own the apartment as
> > property. The apartment is usually located in a building and you have to
> > pay a (relatively small) monthly fee for the maintenance (which would be
> > exactly a "condo fee", AFAIK).
> Kewl. So some organization or company owns the entire building, and you own
> part of that organization, which gives you certain rights in the building. A
> neat system. I think I've heard of that in the USA, but it's far from common.
I think that "housing cooperative" is the most accurate term for that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_cooperative
However, the "in-between" form of my apartment might be unique to Finland
(or very few countries).
Basically it's: "Pay 15% (or such) of the apartment's full price, and you
can live there cheaper than the rent of the same apartment would be, plus
you get more rights to the apartment than with a rented apartment (eg. you
can perform modifications and renovations to a much larger extent, and it's
a bit more difficult for the building's owner to kick you out, for insance)."
The upside of this is also that you can move out at any moment (with a
month's notice) and you get that 15% you paid back (inflation-adjusted).
However, you don't actually *own* the apartment. You can't eg. sell it to
someone else, and there are limits to what you can do to it.
> There's something in the USA called a "time-share", where you own 1/52'nd of
> one apartment, and you get to use it during that week, with the intent that
> you use it for vacations. Another odd thing I don't think I've seen outside
> of north america.
There are time-share schemes like that in Finland, especially for luxury
vacation cottages near to skiing centers and such (which would otherwise
be *way* too expensive for the average person to buy).
--
- Warp
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On 03/08/2012 9:09 AM, Invisible wrote:
>
> Maybe in your country. Over here, most people don't even realise that
> it's /possible/ to have fiber to your house. (Or that this would be
> beneficial somehow.)
Balderdash!
It is not the century of the Fruit bat any more.
Don't believe him folk. :-)
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 03/08/2012 6:47 PM, Warp wrote:
> However, the "in-between" form of my apartment might be unique to Finland
> (or very few countries).
>
> Basically it's: "Pay 15% (or such) of the apartment's full price, and you
> can live there cheaper than the rent of the same apartment would be, plus
> you get more rights to the apartment than with a rented apartment (eg. you
> can perform modifications and renovations to a much larger extent, and it's
> a bit more difficult for the building's owner to kick you out, for insance)."
It sounds similar to some of our Housing association schemes in the UK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_association
Co-op is reserved for:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Co-operative_Group
--
Regards
Stephen
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>> Um, good luck with that...
>
> Cool thing is, it's quite likely to work, just like gmail did. :-)
Well, I hope you're right and everything, but I'm not feeling too
optimistic at this moment. Google clearly is, though. Saying that in 7
years' time the rates for 10mbit/sec "will be $0"? That's fighting talk
where I'm from. ;-)
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On 8/3/2012 10:30, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> Bandwidth and latency are not always connected. In fact, for a real
> situation, a satellite link (dedicated, you have $$$) is really a big
> bandwidth, yet the latency is uncompressible, and worse than a fiber to
> make a 100 miles trip.
That doesn't mean they have nothing to do with each other. Bandwidth over
the same connection and route affects the latency. They're not independent
variables. They're not linearly related, either.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Oh no! We're out of code juice!"
"Don't panic. There's beans and filters
in the cabinet."
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On 03/08/2012 06:30 PM, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> Please considere the bandwidth of a 747 filled with dual layer DVD-R (or
> now blu-ray).
> It will blast even your fiber, on raw value of provided bandwidth.
> Yet, the plane won't leave before it get full... may take a few hours of
> latency to cover the 100 miles (most on ground).
In general, if anything, latency seems to /increase/ with bandwidth,
unfortunately...
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Stephen <mcavoys_at@aoldotcom> wrote:
> On 03/08/2012 6:47 PM, Warp wrote:
> > However, the "in-between" form of my apartment might be unique to Finland
> > (or very few countries).
> >
> > Basically it's: "Pay 15% (or such) of the apartment's full price, and you
> > can live there cheaper than the rent of the same apartment would be, plus
> > you get more rights to the apartment than with a rented apartment (eg. you
> > can perform modifications and renovations to a much larger extent, and it's
> > a bit more difficult for the building's owner to kick you out, for insance)."
> It sounds similar to some of our Housing association schemes in the UK.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_association
> Co-op is reserved for:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Co-operative_Group
The Finnish websites that have information about this kind of housing
and which have translations to English seem to use the term
"right-of-occupancy housing". Making a google search with this only
gives Finnish websites, so either they are using an unconventional
term, or the housing mode itself is quite unconventional and unique
to Finland (and possibly Sweden)...
--
- Warp
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On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 10:18:33 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> There's something in the USA called a "time-share", where you own
> 1/52'nd of one apartment, and you get to use it during that week, with
> the intent that you use it for vacations. Another odd thing I don't
> think I've seen outside of north america.
*That's* what I was trying to think of. It does sound strikingly similar
in concept, except that the occupants live there full time.
Jim
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On 03/08/2012 7:18 PM, Warp wrote:
> Making a google search with this only
> gives Finnish websites,
That is true.
> so either they are using an unconventional
> term, or the housing mode itself is quite unconventional and unique
> to Finland (and possibly Sweden)...
It is certainly not common in Britain. Having said that it sounds like a
good idea. More power to your elbow!
--
Regards
Stephen
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