According to popular legend, caffeine is a powerful stimulant with 
increases alertness, decreases reaction time, improves memory and 
cognition, and decreases fatigue. It's also addictive, and if you stop 
taking it, you develop crippling withdrawal symptoms such as headaches, 
muscle soreness, joint pains and fatigue.

Question: Has ANYBODY ever actually experienced any of these effects? 
Either from taking the drug or stopping it? Because *I* certainly haven't.

At various times in my life, there have been times when I'm drinking 
several cups of strong tea every day, and there have been times when I 
go for months without drinking any tea at all. I have never noticed any 
measurable difference.

According to Wikipedia, the effects of caffeine are strong enough that 
if you take enough of it, you can actually /die/ from it. (Although, 
obviously, not from any quantity that you'll ever find in tea or 
coffee.) So apparently the drug does do /something/. But I've yet to 
experience any measurable effect.

Is it just me?

(Similarly, several people seem to think that eating large quantities of 
sugar results in a "sugar rush", which I have also yet to experience. 
Alternatively, maybe I live in a /permanent/ sugar rush, I don't know...)

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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> At various times in my life, there have been times when I'm drinking
> several cups of strong tea every day, and there have been times when I
> go for months without drinking any tea at all. I have never noticed any
> measurable difference.

A cup of tea contains a lot less caffeine than a cup of coffee. I drink a lot of
tea in start-stop patterns similar to yours, and I've never noticed the effect
either. But I've known people to stop drinking 6-10 cups of strong coffee a day,
and suffer the symptoms described...

Some people are more sensitive to it, too. I know at least one person who can't
sleep properly for days after having a single cup of tea.

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Le 2012-06-15 08:11, Invisible a écrit :
> According to popular legend, caffeine is a powerful stimulant with
> increases alertness, decreases reaction time, improves memory and
> cognition, and decreases fatigue. It's also addictive, and if you stop
> taking it, you develop crippling withdrawal symptoms such as headaches,
> muscle soreness, joint pains and fatigue.
>
> Question: Has ANYBODY ever actually experienced any of these effects?
> Either from taking the drug or stopping it? Because *I* certainly haven't.

Yes.  I used to drink 3 or 4 coffees, plus over a liter or Coke per day.

Went camping for a week-end, where neither of those were available, and 
had one of the worst non-migraine-related headaches ever.

>
> At various times in my life, there have been times when I'm drinking
> several cups of strong tea every day, and there have been times when I
> go for months without drinking any tea at all. I have never noticed any
> measurable difference.
>
> According to Wikipedia, the effects of caffeine are strong enough that
> if you take enough of it, you can actually /die/ from it. (Although,
> obviously, not from any quantity that you'll ever find in tea or
> coffee.) So apparently the drug does do /something/. But I've yet to
> experience any measurable effect.
>

I've also had cases where i've taken too many coffees, when pulling 
all-nighters at uni, or work, where I would have jitters.  I guess it 
was a combination of being tired and too much caffeine.

Which reminds me of my old .sig file that was a variation of the Mentat 
incantation from the Dune movie that I had found on the Net:

"It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning,
it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion."

> Is it just me?

You've probably have not taken enough, or are not atuned to its effects, 
so that even though they're there, you don't notice them (e.g. first 
time pot smokers who don't notice they're high), or attribute them to 
another cause (e.g. I used to think that having the flu made me have 
weird claustrophobic nightmares, except I later found out it was a side 
effect of the pseudoephedrine found in most flu medicine, and not of the 
flu itself).


-- 
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/*    flabreque    */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/*        @        */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/*   gmail.com     */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }

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On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:11:23 +0100, Invisible wrote:

> Question: Has ANYBODY ever actually experienced any of these effects?

Yes.  If I drink caffeinated beverages for a few days and then don't, I 
get a really nasty headache.

Jim

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On 15/06/2012 3:11 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:11:23 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>
>> Question: Has ANYBODY ever actually experienced any of these effects?
>
> Yes.  If I drink caffeinated beverages for a few days and then don't, I
> get a really nasty headache.
>

What’s a headache?
Like Andrew, I have never suffered withdrawal symptoms from caffeine. 
Nor have I had a caffeine rush. I do like a coffee with sugar first 
thing in the morning to “get me going” but no cravings if there is none.


-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 19:41:25 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 15/06/2012 3:11 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:11:23 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>>
>>> Question: Has ANYBODY ever actually experienced any of these effects?
>>
>> Yes.  If I drink caffeinated beverages for a few days and then don't, I
>> get a really nasty headache.
>>
>>
> What’s a headache?

Oh, I think you know what a headache is.  Read a bunch of posts that 
could be answered with "GIYF" and then find a brick wall to bang your 
head against.

That'll surely cause one. ;)

> Like Andrew, I have never suffered withdrawal symptoms from caffeine.
> Nor have I had a caffeine rush. I do like a coffee with sugar first
> thing in the morning to “get me going” but no cravings if there is none.

Yeah, some people do not react the same way - which is why with nutrition 
guidelines, a lot of them make no sense at all, because different people 
react differently to things.

Which is why I laugh when I see a new report that says, for example, that 
"high fat diets might just be good for you" - they always miss the "in 
moderation" part.

Jim

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On 2012-06-15 18:27, Jim Henderson wrote:
> Yeah, some people do not react the same way - which is why with nutrition
> guidelines, a lot of them make no sense at all, because different people
> react differently to things.

No, they make perfect sense, as long as you understand them in the 
context that they're /guidelines/ for the statistical norm.  Not a set 
of hard and fast rules for absolutely everybody.

--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.sjcook.com

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On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 00:08:20 -0500, Tim Cook wrote:

> On 2012-06-15 18:27, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Yeah, some people do not react the same way - which is why with
>> nutrition guidelines, a lot of them make no sense at all, because
>> different people react differently to things.
> 
> No, they make perfect sense, as long as you understand them in the
> context that they're /guidelines/ for the statistical norm.  Not a set
> of hard and fast rules for absolutely everybody.

Well, yeah, that's what I was going for.  They make sense for that 
statistical norm, but not for the individual if they don't work for the 
individual.

Jim

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On 16/06/2012 12:27 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 19:41:25 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>

>> What’s a headache?
>
> Oh, I think you know what a headache is.

Not from personal experience.

> Read a bunch of posts that
> could be answered with "GIYF" and then find a brick wall to bang your
> head against.
>
> That'll surely cause one. ;)
>

I would say that that would give you a sore head as opposed to the 
headaches that I have read about. I seem to remember that I did have one 
when I was a child but that is a memory of a memory, now. Very 
occasionally, once every couple of years, I get an ice pick headache 
which lasts less than a second. I don’t think that really counts though 
as they don’t last long enough to have any debilitating effect.
Incidentally, I don’t get hangovers, either. And it is not that I don’t 
drink ;-)

>
> Yeah, some people do not react the same way - which is why with nutrition
> guidelines, a lot of them make no sense at all, because different people
> react differently to things.
>

If you don't like the guidelines just wait a couple of years and they 
are bound to change. :-)

> Which is why I laugh when I see a new report that says, for example, that
> "high fat diets might just be good for you" - they always miss the "in
> moderation" part.
>

My motto is moderation in everything including moderation.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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On 16/06/2012 06:08 AM, Tim Cook wrote:
> On 2012-06-15 18:27, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Yeah, some people do not react the same way - which is why with nutrition
>> guidelines, a lot of them make no sense at all, because different people
>> react differently to things.
>
> No, they make perfect sense, as long as you understand them in the
> context that they're /guidelines/ for the statistical norm. Not a set of
> hard and fast rules for absolutely everybody.

Personally, I think the guideline amounts would be more useful if they 
gave you an ideal /range/ rather than just a single /point/. But who 
cares what I think...

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On 6/15/2012 5:11, Invisible wrote:
> Question: Has ANYBODY ever actually experienced any of these effects? Either
> from taking the drug or stopping it? Because *I* certainly haven't.

It's pretty easy to get a headache from skipping your caffine if you're used 
to it, yes.

The point to remember is that caffine works by blocking the bits that emit 
the stuff that turns off your brain. (A very technical explanation, yes.) 
However, if you take it long enough, you wind up growing new emitters to 
account for the inefficiency of the ones you already have, so basically your 
body adjusts to it and after a few weeks you're operating at the same level 
you normally would be operating at.

> At various times in my life, there have been times when I'm drinking several
> cups of strong tea every day, and there have been times when I go for months
> without drinking any tea at all. I have never noticed any measurable
> difference.

You don't, after a few weeks.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Oh no! We're out of code juice!"
   "Don't panic. There's beans and filters
    in the cabinet."

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On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 07:35:19 +0100, Stephen wrote:

>> Oh, I think you know what a headache is.
> 
> Not from personal experience.

Sounds like further down, though, that 'ice pick' type thing is fairly 
common.  Just extend it for more than a few seconds.

>> Read a bunch of posts that could be answered with "GIYF" and then find
>> a brick wall to bang your head against.
>>
>> That'll surely cause one. ;)
>>
>>
> I would say that that would give you a sore head as opposed to the
> headaches that I have read about. 

Well, I've had headaches that were like that, but migraines are quite 
different, that's true.  Every once in a while I get one where I see 
white spots.  Sometimes there is pain involved, sometimes not.

> Incidentally, I don’t get hangovers, either. And it is not that I don’t
> drink ;-)

That's handy. ;)

>> Yeah, some people do not react the same way - which is why with
>> nutrition guidelines, a lot of them make no sense at all, because
>> different people react differently to things.
>>
> If you don't like the guidelines just wait a couple of years and they
> are bound to change. :-)

Exactly. :)

>> Which is why I laugh when I see a new report that says, for example,
>> that "high fat diets might just be good for you" - they always miss the
>> "in moderation" part.
>>
>>
> My motto is moderation in everything including moderation.

Yup. :)  Same here.

Jim

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On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 10:03:13 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

> On 16/06/2012 06:08 AM, Tim Cook wrote:
>> On 2012-06-15 18:27, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> Yeah, some people do not react the same way - which is why with
>>> nutrition guidelines, a lot of them make no sense at all, because
>>> different people react differently to things.
>>
>> No, they make perfect sense, as long as you understand them in the
>> context that they're /guidelines/ for the statistical norm. Not a set
>> of hard and fast rules for absolutely everybody.
> 
> Personally, I think the guideline amounts would be more useful if they
> gave you an ideal /range/ rather than just a single /point/. But who
> cares what I think...

I happen to agree with that.

Jim

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On 6/15/2012 11:35 PM, Stephen wrote:
> On 16/06/2012 12:27 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 19:41:25 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>
>>> What’s a headache?
>>
>> Oh, I think you know what a headache is.
>
> Not from personal experience.
>
>> Read a bunch of posts that
>> could be answered with "GIYF" and then find a brick wall to bang your
>> head against.
>>
>> That'll surely cause one. ;)
>>
>
> I would say that that would give you a sore head as opposed to the
> headaches that I have read about. I seem to remember that I did have one
> when I was a child but that is a memory of a memory, now. Very
> occasionally, once every couple of years, I get an ice pick headache
> which lasts less than a second. I don’t think that really counts though
> as they don’t last long enough to have any debilitating effect.
> Incidentally, I don’t get hangovers, either. And it is not that I don’t
> drink ;-)
>
Read an interesting article that might kind of explain that, possibly. 
Betting you don't experience "brain freeze" from cold drinks much 
either? See, seems that, in some people, the vein that runs up the neck, 
and into the brain, close to the spine, can try to "over protect". It 
opens wider than normal, expanding enough that it triggers pain, in 
order to increase blood flow, as a counter to what is assumed to be a 
decrease in critical temperature. Caffeine, among other things, dilates 
the blood vessels, I think? So, going off it, for some people, may 
restrict blood flow, and again, you get an over-counter reaction.

Or, so the theory goes, based on watching the changes due to the brain 
freeze effect, and noting a strong correlation between people that get 
migraines, and their susceptibility to suffering that effect (i.e., they 
get hit with it much faster, and much harder, when exposing themselves 
to cold drinks). It kind of makes sense that other "spike in the head" 
type headaches, short, or long term, are a result of this one blood 
source overcompensating for an assumed threat. And, it makes sense that 
some people's brains may recognize the overreaction, and curtail it, 
much quicker than others.

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On 16/06/2012 10:50 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 07:35:19 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>>> Oh, I think you know what a headache is.
>>
>> Not from personal experience.
>
> Sounds like further down, though, that 'ice pick' type thing is fairly
> common.  Just extend it for more than a few seconds.
>

It is quite difficult to reply to this without nit picking. (Won’t stop 
me though.)

 From my reading it is not very common, only 1 or 2 per cent of people 
get them. The ones I get have almost no duration at all and are so 
infrequent as to not be counted.
My understanding of common or garden headaches is that it feels like an 
iron band around your head that is slowly tightening. Or that it is a 
thumper where your head pounds with pain. These I don’t get.
My theory is that the headache I had as a child was so unpleasant that I 
decided not to have any more.

>>> Read a bunch of posts that could be answered with "GIYF" and then find
>>> a brick wall to bang your head against.
>>>
>>> That'll surely cause one. ;)
>>>
>>>
>> I would say that that would give you a sore head as opposed to the
>> headaches that I have read about.
>
> Well, I've had headaches that were like that, but migraines are quite
> different, that's true.  Every once in a while I get one where I see
> white spots.  Sometimes there is pain involved, sometimes not.
>

I think that we are talking at cross purposes.
One of my brothers in law suffers badly from migraines and buys them 
instead of hangovers. When the wine is in the sense is out etc.

I meant a pain in the head region is not necessarily a headache.


>> Incidentally, I don’t get hangovers, either. And it is not that I don’t
>> drink ;-)
>
> That's handy. ;)
>

It is and it isn’t. I don’t have the disincentive of hangovers to stop 
me drinking too much.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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On 17/06/2012 5:25 AM, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> Read an interesting article that might kind of explain that, possibly.
> Betting you don't experience "brain freeze" from cold drinks much
> either?

No, I've never even heard of it either.

> See, seems that, in some people, the vein that runs up the neck,

[snip]

> some people's brains may recognize the overreaction, and curtail it,
> much quicker than others.

Very interesting reading about it, in an academic sense.

I did get ice-cream toothache though.


-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 10:24:53 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> It is quite difficult to reply to this without nit picking. (Won’t stop
> me though.)

But of course. ;)

>  From my reading it is not very common, only 1 or 2 per cent of people
> get them. The ones I get have almost no duration at all and are so
> infrequent as to not be counted.

But the pain is something you're familiar with.  Just because it 
approaches an average of zero over time.... ;)

> My understanding of common or garden headaches is that it feels like an
> iron band around your head that is slowly tightening. Or that it is a
> thumper where your head pounds with pain. These I don’t get.

I wouldn't know what an iron band around my head slowly tightening feels 
like, but basically for me, there's a 'steady pain' and a 'thumping 
pain'.  What I've read about hangover headaches is that they're caused by 
dehydration causing the brain to shrink slightly, and the pain is the 
membrane attached to the skull being pulled (since the brain itself 
doesn't feel pain at all).

> My theory is that the headache I had as a child was so unpleasant that I
> decided not to have any more.

You should teach that trick to the rest of us. ;)

>> Well, I've had headaches that were like that, but migraines are quite
>> different, that's true.  Every once in a while I get one where I see
>> white spots.  Sometimes there is pain involved, sometimes not.
>>
>>
> I think that we are talking at cross purposes.

I don't think so.

> One of my brothers in law suffers badly from migraines and buys them
> instead of hangovers. When the wine is in the sense is out etc.

Ken used to get them quite regularly as well - though he's found a change 
in diet that has really helped a lot (not sure what it is, though).

> I meant a pain in the head region is not necessarily a headache.

Well, true.

>>> Incidentally, I don’t get hangovers, either. And it is not that I
>>> don’t drink ;-)
>>
>> That's handy. ;)
>>
>>
> It is and it isn’t. I don’t have the disincentive of hangovers to stop
> me drinking too much.

True....

Jim

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On 6/17/2012 2:24, Stephen wrote:
> One of my brothers in law suffers badly from migraines and buys them instead
> of hangovers. When the wine is in the sense is out etc.

FWIW, I figured out I'm alergic to sulfates. Try a bottle of un-sulfated 
wine and see if you get the same effects.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Oh no! We're out of code juice!"
   "Don't panic. There's beans and filters
    in the cabinet."

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On 17/06/2012 10:25 PM, Darren New wrote:
> On 6/17/2012 2:24, Stephen wrote:
>> One of my brothers in law suffers badly from migraines and buys them
>> instead
>> of hangovers. When the wine is in the sense is out etc.
>
> FWIW, I figured out I'm alergic to sulfates. Try a bottle of un-sulfated
> wine and see if you get the same effects.
>

In my youth I used to like amphetamine sulphate but I don’t suppose 
that’s the same thing.
I misquoted, the phrase is "When the wine is in the wit is out".
I just meant that when people start to drink their senses are dulled and 
they drink more than is good for them.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> At various times in my life, there have been times when I'm drinking
> several cups of strong tea every day

tea is not coffee.  Tea is leaves, coffee is beans.

> Alternatively, maybe I live in a /permanent/ sugar rush, I don't know...)

We may very well live in that state, yes. :)

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On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:47:12 -0400, nemesis wrote:

> tea is not coffee.  Tea is leaves, coffee is beans.

Depending on the tea, though, it can have more caffeine than coffee.

Jim

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