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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: If you use Linkedin, you should probably change your password.
Date: 8 Jun 2012 17:03:30
Message: <4fd268a2$1@news.povray.org>
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On 08/06/2012 9:53 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 21:44:01 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>> On 08/06/2012 8:24 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 20:13:40 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>> And points mean?... :-)
>>>
>>> Prizes! :)
>>
>> Well, they do say that time flies when you're having fun, and to prove
>> it I notice my sundial has stopped...
>
> That sounds like fun after dark. ;)
>
Talking about “After dark”, there is still eight days until TC-RTC
finishes. ;-)
...and so, ladies and gentlemen, that's the end of the show, and you
must agree, it certainly ticked all the boxes - particularly those
marked 'terrible' and 'rubbish'...
--
Regards
Stephen
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From: Orchid Win7 v1
Subject: Re: If you use Linkedin, you should probably change your password.
Date: 8 Jun 2012 17:04:58
Message: <4fd268fa@news.povray.org>
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On 08/06/2012 10:03 PM, Stephen wrote:
> ...and so, ladies and gentlemen, that's the end of the show, and you
> must agree, it certainly ticked all the boxes - particularly those
> marked 'terrible' and 'rubbish'...
http://tinyurl.com/28oz8fu
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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: If you use Linkedin, you should probably change your password.
Date: 8 Jun 2012 17:07:08
Message: <4fd2697c$1@news.povray.org>
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On 08/06/2012 9:57 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>
> Everything can be improved. This is not the same as saying that
> everything is equally optimal.
>
Too deep for me, I am afraid. o_O
>>>> BTW Andrew, have you ever tried to play Grieg's In the hall of the
>>>> mountain king? ;-)
>>>
>>> Actually, yes... I *think* I succeeded.
>>
>> Well done, that man.
>
> I used to love that song, until Altern Towers overused it...
Woosh! That goes right over my head.
And be true to your shelf-ish.
--
Regards
Stephen
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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: If you use Linkedin, you should probably change your password.
Date: 8 Jun 2012 17:08:32
Message: <4fd269d0$1@news.povray.org>
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On 08/06/2012 9:56 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> There is no magical "tool" which can correctly guess what is hidden
> behind a solid object.
Even if the object is made of glass? :-P
--
Regards
Stephen
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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: If you use Linkedin, you should probably change your password.
Date: 8 Jun 2012 17:18:34
Message: <4fd26c2a$1@news.povray.org>
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On 08/06/2012 10:04 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> On 08/06/2012 10:03 PM, Stephen wrote:
>
>> ...and so, ladies and gentlemen, that's the end of the show, and you
>> must agree, it certainly ticked all the boxes - particularly those
>> marked 'terrible' and 'rubbish'...
>
> http://tinyurl.com/28oz8fu
>
That’s the problem, you have all the wrong references.
Unless…
You’re a Geek?
And if you are a geek. Don’t expect to fit in with the muggles. They are
just as weird but there are more of them.
--
Regards
Stephen
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: If you use Linkedin, you should probably change your password.
Date: 8 Jun 2012 17:30:14
Message: <4fd26ee6@news.povray.org>
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On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 22:03:29 +0100, Stephen wrote:
> On 08/06/2012 9:53 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 21:44:01 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/06/2012 8:24 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 20:13:40 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> And points mean?... :-)
>>>>
>>>> Prizes! :)
>>>
>>> Well, they do say that time flies when you're having fun, and to prove
>>> it I notice my sundial has stopped...
>>
>> That sounds like fun after dark. ;)
>>
>>
> Talking about “After dark”, there is still eight days until TC-RTC
> finishes. ;-)
>
> ...and so, ladies and gentlemen, that's the end of the show, and you
> must agree, it certainly ticked all the boxes - particularly those
> marked 'terrible' and 'rubbish'...
:)
Are you perhaps hinting that a new series is imminent?
Jim
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: If you use Linkedin, you should probably change your password.
Date: 8 Jun 2012 17:44:52
Message: <4fd27254@news.povray.org>
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On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 21:56:07 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>> For the average person, it most certainly is possible. There are tools
>> in the basic/cheap versions of Photoshop to do this sort of thing IIRC.
>
> There is no magical "tool" which can correctly guess what is hidden
> behind a solid object.
No, but if you have a picture that shows what's behind a solid object,
then you can in fact mask out the object.
Photoshop also now has a plugin that can do a reasonable fill that looks
good to do things like remove a tree from the foreground and replace it
with grass, that kind of thing. That's much easier than, for example,
removing people from a picture.
But if you take a series of photos with people walking in front of the
subject, in general, you can paint people out and replace them with
what's behind them using data from other shots in the series.
That's how it's done, generally.
> I'm aware that there *are* people who possess the skill to do utterly
> amazing things with photo editors. But that doesn't mean that everybody
> can do this. It's not a question of having a magic "tool"; it's about
> being sufficiently skilful to find ways to trick the eye. From what I've
> seen, few people have such skills.
Well, you are working from a very small sample.
>>> That's my point.
>>>
>>> If you do not have all of the information (the usual case), then
>>> whether your conclusions are correct or not is largely chance.
>>
>> I don't think this is the "usual case".
>
> Usually what you know about a thing is utterly dwarfed by what you don't
> know. The question is whether you know the important facts - which is
> usually a matter of chance.
That's not been my experience. It is possible to seek out the important
facts before making a decision.
Business intelligence systems do exactly that, in fact.
>> Well, no, it's not my intention to say "Andy, you're an idiot" - I hope
>> you know that. What you do tend to do, though, is start from a very
>> bad premise and then make wild assertions that are not accurate and
>> very easily verifiable.
>
> Statements like this make me wonder where this vast endless source of
> "easy" counter-examples is... It's as if the entire world knows
> something that I don't.
How to properly use google? <scnr>
>>> I'll see if I can figure out what my password is. (If not, I guess I
>>> can look it up on some Russian forum...)
>>
>> LOL
>>
>> There is a forgotten password link you can use to reset it, of course.
>
> Nah, it's probably the same password I use for everything else...
>
> ...oh. ****. >_<
I smell a problem....
>>> Or because - as I already suggested - it's perhaps aimed at somebody
>>> other than me.
>>
>> That's certainly possible, but you are a "job seeker", and that's part
>> of the target audience.
>
> As I say, I get the impression (I'm not sure precisely why) that it's
> mainly targeted at high-powered business executives in upper management.
> (These are the people who are usually obsessed with "networking", for
> example.) Since I am not one of those people, perhaps this isn't an
> appropriate tool for me, which is why it looks useless when I look at
> it.
>
> (Alternatively, perhaps I'm just mistaken...)
Yep, you are. I'm certainly not a 'high powered business executive in
upper management", but I do happen to have worked with a lot of people in
several different fields.
>> But jobs typically don't fall out of the sky into your lap (as you
>> know), you have to work to find them (which you also know) and it can
>> be difficult (which you also also know).
>
> Sure. As I say, last time I looked, there didn't seem to be anything to
> "work at". Once you've filled in all the fields, that's about it. Unless
> they really have /radically/ altered the capabilities of the site...
Well, there's also the question of your unwillingness to go where the
work is, or your unwillingness to believe that anyone on the planet who
works a "normal" job makes enough to live on.
Even with plenty of real-life examples demonstrating the opposite.
Heck, I was laid off last May. I didn't work again until October, and
it's been contract work ever since. A couple of really tight months
financially, but we haven't lost the house and are still paying all the
bills.
>>> OOC, do you have any factual basis for saying that "millions of people
>>> do use it with some success", beyond the fact that the site still
>>> exists and hasn't gone bankrupt yet? Or is /that/ merely an
>>> assumption? :-P
>>
>> Oooh, he's got teeth, this one does. ;) That's a fair question.
>
> Back atcha. ;-)
It always makes me smile when you take a stand on something. Even when
the stand isn't necessarily logical in my view. You have changed in that
regard, and it's a good change. :)
>> Look at the number of people I'm connected to. I follow a number of
>> companies and see people taking positions at new companies that had
>> jobs posted on the site.
>
> So, there's indirect evidence that some of the people on the site lead
> quite successful careers. That's a correlation, but not necessarily a
> causal relationship.
Sure, it's not a causal relationship - but even if you consider the
possibility that 0.01% of the people on LinkedIn have successfully used
it to find work (and that's an extremely conservative estimate), that's
still 500 people who have found jobs using it just in my network alone.
>> My network (out to three degrees) consists of nearly 5 million people.
>
> So there's a lot of people /on/ the site.
And it stands to reason if it were a waste of time, people wouldn't spend
time on the site, would they? (The point of LinkedIn isn't to waste
time, it's to build a professional network. Facebook, OTOH, is
essentially there for people to waste time on so they can be the
'product' sold to advertisers - the two aren't really equivalent).
>> Every job search professional I have talked to (recruiters, placement
>> agencies, etc.) has said that networking is something that's generally
>> a good predictor of success in finding employment.
>
> I don't get the whole "networking" thing. I mean, hypothetically I can
> see why it might work. But I have no idea how you'd go about this in the
> real world, nor do I directly know of any instances where this has been
> a successful approach for somebody. Maybe I haven't seen networking
> succeed because I don't do any networking and I don't know anybody else
> that does, IDK... It just seems a slightly strange concept.
Well, I've had it work for me in the past. In fact, the contract work
I'm doing right now is due to networking - I applied for a position with
a local company, and while I wasn't hired by that company, someone
external to the company involved in the selection process saw my CV and
gave me a call for another project she was working on.
I've been working "for" her (as an independent contractor) ever since.
The job before the one I was laid off from (or rather, the company), I
met a recruiter at a user group meeting who introduced me to the hiring
manager at the company - and I was originally going to contract to them,
but they bought the contract out and hired me directly.
So there's two examples.
>>> (Not that a seriously doubt you. But it sounds like exactly the sort
>>> of statement that's easy to casually make and almost impossible to
>>> objectively verify.)
>>
>> See above. :)
>
> For example, how do you know that "millions" have found it useful? Not,
> say, "thousands"? The number of people on the site is not necessarily
> the number who have actually found it beneficial.
It stands to reason that if it weren't beneficial, people would stop
using it. After all, you didn't find it beneficial, and you stopped
using it. That's actually a perfectly natural reaction.
So are you assuming you're the only one who stopped using it because you
didn't find it beneficial?
> In general, I imagine it's quite hard to scientifically quantify this.
> (What counts as "beneficial" or "not beneficial"? How do you put a
> number on that?)
Found something they were looking for using the service.
Jim
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From: Orchid Win7 v1
Subject: Re: If you use Linkedin, you should probably change your password.
Date: 8 Jun 2012 18:05:48
Message: <4fd2773c$1@news.povray.org>
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>> http://tinyurl.com/28oz8fu
>
> That’s the problem, you have all the wrong references.
>
> Unless…
>
> You’re a Geek?
>
> And if you are a geek. Don’t expect to fit in with the muggles. They are
> just as weird but there are more of them.
http://tinyurl.com/cjscp68
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From: Orchid Win7 v1
Subject: Re: If you use Linkedin, you should probably change your password.
Date: 8 Jun 2012 18:24:31
Message: <4fd27b9f@news.povray.org>
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>> There is no magical "tool" which can correctly guess what is hidden
>> behind a solid object.
>
> No, but if you have a picture that shows what's behind a solid object,
> then you can in fact mask out the object.
Sure. That I can believe. Doing it from just one photo isn't so easy.
>>> I don't think this is the "usual case".
>>
>> Usually what you know about a thing is utterly dwarfed by what you don't
>> know. The question is whether you know the important facts - which is
>> usually a matter of chance.
>
> That's not been my experience. It is possible to seek out the important
> facts before making a decision.
>
> Business intelligence systems do exactly that, in fact.
Doesn't BI involve paying vast sums of money to /collect/ the necessary
information?
>> Statements like this make me wonder where this vast endless source of
>> "easy" counter-examples is... It's as if the entire world knows
>> something that I don't.
>
> How to properly use google?<scnr>
You laugh, but this is actually non-trivial.
If I had a penny for all the times I've been utterly frustrated in my
efforts to find information using Google, I'd be very rich by now.
(Obviously I can't think of a single concrete example right now. That
would be too useful...)
>> As I say, I get the impression (I'm not sure precisely why) that it's
>> mainly targeted at high-powered business executives in upper management.
>> (These are the people who are usually obsessed with "networking", for
>> example.) Since I am not one of those people, perhaps this isn't an
>> appropriate tool for me, which is why it looks useless when I look at
>> it.
>>
>> (Alternatively, perhaps I'm just mistaken...)
>
> Yep, you are. I'm certainly not a 'high powered business executive in
> upper management", but I do happen to have worked with a lot of people in
> several different fields.
OK, fair enough.
> Well, there's also the question of your unwillingness to go where the
> work is
I live in a city with a population of 200,000 people, and an
unemployment rate well below the national average. /Clearly/ there are
jobs here. I just need to find them.
> or your unwillingness to believe that anyone on the planet who
> works a "normal" job makes enough to live on.
Uh, when did I say that?
> Heck, I was laid off last May. I didn't work again until October, and
> it's been contract work ever since. A couple of really tight months
> financially, but we haven't lost the house and are still paying all the
> bills.
Then clearly you are a far better person than I am.
One time my sister got laid off. 5 days later, she was on the phone
complaining that of the 3 written job offers she had received from the 5
interviews she attended, she couldn't decide which one sounded the nicest.
She went to more interviews in 5 days than I've been to in my entire
working life. But then, she has skills that people actually want, and
she apparently knows how to find those people, so...
>>> Oooh, he's got teeth, this one does. ;) That's a fair question.
>>
>> Back atcha. ;-)
>
> It always makes me smile when you take a stand on something. Even when
> the stand isn't necessarily logical in my view. You have changed in that
> regard, and it's a good change. :)
It's good to be righteous. It's not so good when you're actually wrong. :-/
>> So there's a lot of people /on/ the site.
>
> And it stands to reason if it were a waste of time, people wouldn't spend
> time on the site, would they? (The point of LinkedIn isn't to waste
> time, it's to build a professional network. Facebook, OTOH, is
> essentially there for people to waste time on so they can be the
> 'product' sold to advertisers - the two aren't really equivalent).
Yeah, I'm really not seeing how Facebook is still in business. It must
cost /millions/ to run all those servers. And yet, their idea of
"targeted adverts" is about as precise as a blunderbuss. It just seems
like some day somebody is going to figure out the emperor's magical
invisible suite is actually non-existent...
>> I don't get the whole "networking" thing. I mean, hypothetically I can
>> see why it might work. But I have no idea how you'd go about this in the
>> real world, nor do I directly know of any instances where this has been
>> a successful approach for somebody. Maybe I haven't seen networking
>> succeed because I don't do any networking and I don't know anybody else
>> that does, IDK... It just seems a slightly strange concept.
>
> Well, I've had it work for me in the past. In fact, the contract work
> I'm doing right now is due to networking - I applied for a position with
> a local company, and while I wasn't hired by that company, someone
> external to the company involved in the selection process saw my CV and
> gave me a call for another project she was working on.
>
> I've been working "for" her (as an independent contractor) ever since.
>
> The job before the one I was laid off from (or rather, the company), I
> met a recruiter at a user group meeting who introduced me to the hiring
> manager at the company - and I was originally going to contract to them,
> but they bought the contract out and hired me directly.
>
> So there's two examples.
OK.
>> For example, how do you know that "millions" have found it useful? Not,
>> say, "thousands"? The number of people on the site is not necessarily
>> the number who have actually found it beneficial.
>
> It stands to reason that if it weren't beneficial, people would stop
> using it. After all, you didn't find it beneficial, and you stopped
> using it. That's actually a perfectly natural reaction.
>
> So are you assuming you're the only one who stopped using it because you
> didn't find it beneficial?
We'd need to see numbers for how many people signed up, and how many
people subsequently left.
My profile is still live on the system. It looks like I'm still a
Linked-In user. And yet, I haven't used it in 3 years. So don't use /my/
presence as an indicator of usefulness.
How many of the other profiles are ghosts? I guess that's the opportune
question...
Regarding Facebook: How many of those profiles are for somebody's cat? ;-)
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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: If you use Linkedin, you should probably change your password.
Date: 8 Jun 2012 18:28:35
Message: <4fd27c93$1@news.povray.org>
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On 08/06/2012 10:30 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>
> Are you perhaps hinting that a new series is imminent?
>
In May the first recordings were done for the 57th series.
--
Regards
Stephen
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