If you have never seen or even heard of this show, but have surfed the
internet enough, you have probably seen images, icons, fan drawings and
such without even realizing they were from such a show.

  I find the cultural phenomenon surrounding this TV show quite interesting.

  What is this phenomenon, you might ask? Well, as the name might imply,
the target demographic for this TV show is, unsurprisingly, young girls.
However, a periphery demographic vastly outnumbers it, namely males between
the ages of about 15 and 35. (Although adult females who enjoy the show also
form a rather large group.)

  What? Has the world suddenly become crazy? Adult males watching an animated
TV show aimed at little girls? Not only that, but the franchise itself
(My Little Pony) is very well known to be extremely girly and feminine. What
madness is this?

  AFAIK the author of this TV show, a revival of the franchise, actually
intended for the show to be enjoyable to everybody, not just the main
demographic. After all, why target only a small minority of potential
viewers when you can target them all? However, I assume she didn't expect
it to become *this* popular among the periphery demographic.

  How do you achieve this feat? By being an amazingly talented writer,
that's how. It *is* possible to make a young girls' show about magical
ponies enjoyable to everybody, mainly via strong characterization and
innocent humor.

  Of course there are those who don't get it at all. Even after watching
a few episodes, or even half a season, they still don't understand what's
so special about it, and find it uninteresting and boring. This is normal,
I guess, but the number of people who do enjoy the show is surprisingly
large. Naturally a small counter-movement of haters have arisen alongside
the fans. Haters gonna hate.

  I found the show enjoyable. It made me laugh, it made me feel emotions.
It's harmless fun. There are definitely much worse thing you could be
watching on TV or online.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On 26/09/2011 03:09 PM, Warp wrote:
>    If you have never seen or even heard of this show, but have surfed the
> internet enough, you have probably seen images, icons, fan drawings and
> such without even realizing they were from such a show.

Me and my little sister used to spend quite a lot of our time watching 
My Little Pony. And the Carebears, for that matter.

Apparently I'm weird.

I wonder if we still have the Transformers movie on VHS? I might have to 
go find that...

Post a reply to this message

Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> On 26/09/2011 03:09 PM, Warp wrote:
> >    If you have never seen or even heard of this show, but have surfed the
> > internet enough, you have probably seen images, icons, fan drawings and
> > such without even realizing they were from such a show.

> Me and my little sister used to spend quite a lot of our time watching 
> My Little Pony. And the Carebears, for that matter.

> Apparently I'm weird.

  Note that the "Friendship is Magic" series is somewhat different than
the older MLP shows.

> I wonder if we still have the Transformers movie on VHS? I might have to 
> go find that...

  There's nothing shameful or emasculating about liking Transformers. :)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

>> Apparently I'm weird.
>
>    Note that the "Friendship is Magic" series is somewhat different than
> the older MLP shows.

Oh, right. I didn't realise that was part of the title...

>> I wonder if we still have the Transformers movie on VHS? I might have to
>> go find that...
>
>    There's nothing shameful or emasculating about liking Transformers. :)

Well, no more than liking 2 Unlimited, I suppose...

One of the (perhaps unsurprising) things about being universally hated 
by everyone that you interact with is that you tend to develop a casual 
disregard for other people's opinion of you. Where somebody in my class 
might say "you watch MLP?! That's for girls!", by response would likely 
have been "I don't care"...

Post a reply to this message

I actually played a MLP:FIM drinking game on Friday -- it was a blast. 
Anyway,  Warp is right, it is a surprisingly well written show and is 
probably most reminiscent of the Powerpuff Girls cartoon (not a 
coincidence since Lauren Faust played a major role in both).

Speaking of recent American cartoons, if you haven't watched the Avatar: 
The Last Airbender cartoon it's also very good (but avoid the 
live-action movie at all costs).

Post a reply to this message

Kevin Wampler <wam### [at] uwashingtonedu> wrote:
> Speaking of recent American cartoons, if you haven't watched the Avatar: 
> The Last Airbender cartoon it's also very good

  It's faux anime, but it's well done for a western cartoon. :)

> (but avoid the live-action movie at all costs).

  You know, when such a movie is universally reviled, I just *have to* see
it at some point in order to know *why* it's so reviled.

  Sometimes I agree with the consensus, sometimes I don't.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On 9/26/2011 8:33 AM, Warp wrote:
>> (but avoid the live-action movie at all costs).
>
>    You know, when such a movie is universally reviled, I just *have to* see
> it at some point in order to know *why* it's so reviled.
>
>    Sometimes I agree with the consensus, sometimes I don't.

Were you the person here who really enjoyed the Star Wars prequels?

I do this too sometimes, but generally when I want to see a movie 
thought of as "bad" I go for the lower-budget flops.  The last one I 
watched was "After Last Season", which I just had to see after its 
surreal trail popped up on the major trailer sites a couple of years 
back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7qCOe8WG4I

Post a reply to this message

Kevin Wampler <wam### [at] uwashingtonedu> wrote:
> Were you the person here who really enjoyed the Star Wars prequels?

  I watched them before the universal consensus was settled, so I didn't
watch them just to see how "bad" they really are.

  At the time I liked them, and none of the arguments that were made back
then against them sounded very convincing. It just sounded a lot like people
were complaining because of "they changed it, now it sucks" and other
nostalgia filtering reasons rather than *actual* ones.

  I have changed my mind during the years somewhat. The Distressed Watcher's
take on the trilogy, while still at points a bit over-the-top, seemed more
rational than anything else I have seen, and has actually convinced me a
bit that perhaps they aren't such great movies after all. Not that they
are bad (there definitely are much, much worse big-budget blockbusters
out there), but not as good as my first impressions led me to think.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

On 9/26/2011 8:57 AM, Warp wrote:
>    I have changed my mind during the years somewhat. The Distressed Watcher's
> take on the trilogy, while still at points a bit over-the-top, seemed more
> rational than anything else I have seen, and has actually convinced me a
> bit that perhaps they aren't such great movies after all. Not that they
> are bad (there definitely are much, much worse big-budget blockbusters
> out there)

I pretty much agree with your assessment of them, I think it's mostly 
that their mediocrity was disappointing since people liked the originals 
so much.  I hadn't heard the The Distresses Watcher's reviews, but I did 
greatly enjoy Plinkett's also over-the-top but very well thought out 
reviews of the prequels:

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/
http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-ii-attack-of-the-clones/
http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-iii-revenge-of-the-sith/

You've probably seen them, but if not they're worth a watch.

Post a reply to this message

On 9/26/2011 8:33, Warp wrote:
>> (but avoid the live-action movie at all costs).
>
>    You know, when such a movie is universally reviled, I just *have to* see
> it at some point in order to know *why* it's so reviled.

Here's something funny: I haven't been able to find a torrent of it. How bad 
does a movie have to be that *nobody* is pirating it? ;-)

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   How come I never get only one kudo?

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On 26/09/2011 06:01 PM, Darren New wrote:
> Here's something funny: I haven't been able to find a torrent of it. How
> bad does a movie have to be that *nobody* is pirating it? ;-)

BUUUUUURN! :-O

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

On 9/26/2011 10:57 AM, Warp wrote:

>    At the time I liked them, and none of the arguments that were made back
> then against them sounded very convincing. It just sounded a lot like people
> were complaining because of "they changed it, now it sucks" and other
> nostalgia filtering reasons rather than *actual* ones.

Everything can be summed up as follows: Jar Jar Binks.

-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9/26/2011 10:57 AM, Warp wrote:

> >    At the time I liked them, and none of the arguments that were made back
> > then against them sounded very convincing. It just sounded a lot like people
> > were complaining because of "they changed it, now it sucks" and other
> > nostalgia filtering reasons rather than *actual* ones.

> Everything can be summed up as follows: Jar Jar Binks.

  I still disagree on that one.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Warp escreveu:
>   How do you achieve this feat? By being an amazingly talented writer,
> that's how. It *is* possible to make a young girls' show about magical
> ponies enjoyable to everybody, mainly via strong characterization and
> innocent humor.

dunno about that, but The Powerpuff Girls is truly outstanding.  Of 
course, it's girlie only in the surface, with enough punch, animé style 
and old pop culture reference to make everyone happy in a tight package.

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

Post a reply to this message

On 26/09/2011 04:57 PM, Warp wrote:
> Kevin Wampler<wam### [at] uwashingtonedu>  wrote:
>> Were you the person here who really enjoyed the Star Wars prequels?
>
>    I watched them before the universal consensus was settled, so I didn't
> watch them just to see how "bad" they really are.
>
>    At the time I liked them, and none of the arguments that were made back
> then against them sounded very convincing. It just sounded a lot like people
> were complaining because of "they changed it, now it sucks" and other
> nostalgia filtering reasons rather than *actual* ones.

As I recall, while I was actually watching Episode I, it seemed really 
cool. I was just sort of swept along with it. And the credits started 
rolling and I was like "oh. Wait... that's IT? Oh, um, OK, I guess we 
*have* been sat here a long time... Hmm, I was expecting... more."

And by the time I'd got home, it just seemed that the film depicted a 
more or less random series of "happenings", with no real progress had 
been made. Oh well.

Watching it again since, it seems less entertaining each time I see it. 
The later films are much worse.

Episode I gave us Duel of the Fates, which makes everything else almost 
forgiveable. It also gave us Jar Jar Binks, which is simply unjustifiable.

Post a reply to this message

>> Everything can be summed up as follows: Jar Jar Binks.
>
>    I still disagree on that one.

This is exactly what I was saying about Metacritic.

Jar Jar Binks is obviously one of the most obnoxiously irritating, 
moronic characters in the history of film. And yet, there are people 
alive today who actually /liked/ him. WTF, people?!

Post a reply to this message

On 9/26/2011 2:36 PM, Warp wrote:

>
>    I still disagree on that one.
>

I will clarify that Jar Jar was only a symptom of deeper problems.

-- 
~Mike

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On 9/27/2011 3:14 AM, Invisible wrote:

> Jar Jar Binks is obviously one of the most obnoxiously irritating,
> moronic characters in the history of film. And yet, there are people
> alive today who actually /liked/ him. WTF, people?!

It's amazing, isn't it? And yet, we can see in Ep. II He's now part of 
the galactic counsel (or whatever that governing body is...) He got 
tossed out of his own society for being obnoxiously clumsy and moronic, 
and gets on the galactic counsel!?? There are deep, deep problems in 
that galaxy far, far away.

-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

On 9/27/2011 3:13 AM, Invisible wrote:

> The later films are much worse.
>

I dunno, I sort of liked Ep. 3 ...


-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

>> Jar Jar Binks is obviously one of the most obnoxiously irritating,
>> moronic characters in the history of film. And yet, there are people
>> alive today who actually /liked/ him. WTF, people?!
>
> It's amazing, isn't it?

I would be more inclined to use words like "baffling", or maybe 
"frightening"...

> And yet, we can see in Ep. II He's now part of
> the galactic counsel (or whatever that governing body is...) He got
> tossed out of his own society for being obnoxiously clumsy and moronic,
> and gets on the galactic counsel!?? There are deep, deep problems in
> that galaxy far, far away.

Wasn't he also promoted to "bom-baad genaaral" by his own society too?

Basically, Quigon says "this gungan may be of use". Despite the 
self-evident fact that he has NO USE AT ALL. It's clearly and obviously 
a transparent ploy to keep him in the story, because he's supposed to be 
the comic relief character. (Trouble is, comics are supposed to be FUNNY...)

Post a reply to this message

>> The later films are much worse.
>
> I dunno, I sort of liked Ep. 3 ...

Perhaps you refer to the EP3 where the troubled young jedi discovers 
where the ominous threat to galactic peace is emanating from, decides 
not to kill him but report him instead, and then a few scenes later 
murders a member of the high council and joins the evil guy instead FOR 
NO APPARENT REASON AT ALL?

That EP3??

Seriously. I barely wanted to watch the film, since - let's face it - we 
already know exactly how it will end. There IS only one way it can end - 
the way EP4 started. But I was hoping that there might be, I don't know, 
some kind of /explanation/ for how the emperor tricked him into falling 
into darkness. But no... at one point, the guy just snaps and starts 
behaving in a completely illogical manner. The transition from troubled 
jedi to sith lord is near-instant. As is the transition to a 
fully-suited Darth Vader, for that matter.

Still, it's a free country...

Post a reply to this message

On 9/27/2011 8:17 AM, Invisible wrote:
>>> The later films are much worse.
>>
>> I dunno, I sort of liked Ep. 3 ...
>
> Perhaps you refer to the EP3 where the troubled young jedi discovers
> where the ominous threat to galactic peace is emanating from, decides
> not to kill him but report him instead, and then a few scenes later
> murders a member of the high council and joins the evil guy instead FOR
> NO APPARENT REASON AT ALL?

Ok, so he was being a bit irrational...

> That EP3??
>

Honestly, The only part I remember was Vader before the black helmeted 
suit falling into a lake of lava, and being nearly burned alive. Beyond 
that, the rest is a blur. :)

> Seriously. I barely wanted to watch the film, since - let's face it - we
> already know exactly how it will end. There IS only one way it can end -
> the way EP4 started. But I was hoping that there might be, I don't know,
> some kind of /explanation/ for how the emperor tricked him into falling
> into darkness. But no... at one point, the guy just snaps and starts
> behaving in a completely illogical manner. The transition from troubled
> jedi to sith lord is near-instant. As is the transition to a
> fully-suited Darth Vader, for that matter.

Yyy... uh. hm. Well, you know, he must have had some really deep rooted 
psychological problems. Not unlike some people I know ..

>
> Still, it's a free country...
For most, it is ...

-- 
~Mike

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On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 14:17:19 +0100, Invisible wrote:

> But no... at one point, the guy just snaps and starts behaving in a
> completely illogical manner.

I think the point of ep3 was that with all the stress Annikin was under, 
his reaction was perfectly rational and logical.

A good actor who plays a 'bad guy' in films usually will study quite a 
lot to understand the character's underlying motivations.  Just look at 
interviews with Christopher Lee about playing Sauruman in LOTR for the 
kind of insight that's applied to playing a role like that.

Another good example is William B. Davis in The X-Files.  He saw his 
character (the "Cigarette Smoking Man") as one of the good guys, and had 
good reason to.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> >> Jar Jar Binks is obviously one of the most obnoxiously irritating,
> >> moronic characters in the history of film. And yet, there are people
> >> alive today who actually /liked/ him. WTF, people?!
> >
> > It's amazing, isn't it?

> I would be more inclined to use words like "baffling", or maybe 
> "frightening"...

  Why couldn't someone like a funny character? And one doesn't need to
even be infantile to do that. (I don't consider myself too infantile.)

> > And yet, we can see in Ep. II He's now part of
> > the galactic counsel (or whatever that governing body is...) He got
> > tossed out of his own society for being obnoxiously clumsy and moronic,
> > and gets on the galactic counsel!?? There are deep, deep problems in
> > that galaxy far, far away.

> Wasn't he also promoted to "bom-baad genaaral" by his own society too?

  He was actually characterized as a good diplomat who helped unite the
two quarreling civilizations on the planet. Thus it makes sense that he
would be a representative of his people. This characterization didn't come
through very clearly, though (well, at all, really), which can be attributed
to substandard writing (something that can be seen throughout the trilogy.)

  Making him a general didn't make much sense, though. He may be good at
diplomacy, not at leading an army. (Again, either substandard writing or
idiocy of the gungan leader.)

> Basically, Quigon says "this gungan may be of use". Despite the 
> self-evident fact that he has NO USE AT ALL. It's clearly and obviously 
> a transparent ploy to keep him in the story, because he's supposed to be 
> the comic relief character. (Trouble is, comics are supposed to be FUNNY...)

  As said, he was characterized as a diplomat (at least in principle), so
in that context it makes sense.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9/27/2011 3:13 AM, Invisible wrote:

> > The later films are much worse.
> >

> I dunno, I sort of liked Ep. 3 ...

  The problem with that, and in fact the entire trilogy, is that there are
some good ideas underneath, but for some strange reason the writing was
quite subpar, which more or less destroyed all the good ideas. With better
writing it could have been much better.

  As an example, episode 3 does not really convey very well *why* Anakin
chose the dark side. There are bits and pieces here and there, but it just
gives a feeling that he switched sides for no good reason at all, and it
makes no sense. A much better script could have made that plot point much
more evident, logical and dramatic.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

>> Wasn't he also promoted to "bom-baad genaaral" by his own society too?
>
>    He was actually characterized as a good diplomat who helped unite the
> two quarreling civilizations on the planet. Thus it makes sense that he
> would be a representative of his people. This characterization didn't come
> through very clearly, though (well, at all, really), which can be attributed
> to substandard writing (something that can be seen throughout the trilogy.)

Substandard writing I could agree on.

 From what I can see, it was Quigon who decided to ask the Gungans for 
transport, and Amidala who decided to ask for their army. If anyone is a 
good diplomat, it's Amidala. But anyway...

>    Making him a general didn't make much sense, though. He may be good at
> diplomacy, not at leading an army. (Again, either substandard writing or
> idiocy of the gungan leader.)

It's not especially logical, but it's plausible. Lots of companies, for 
example, will take the very best engineer in the team and promote them 
to team manager. Because, you know, being the best engineer makes you 
the best manager, doesn't it? (Hint: no, it doesn't.) The promotion is a 
"reward" for being the best guy on the team. But, logically, it's 
actually not a very good idea.

>> Basically, Quigon says "this gungan may be of use". Despite the
>> self-evident fact that he has NO USE AT ALL. It's clearly and obviously
>> a transparent ploy to keep him in the story, because he's supposed to be
>> the comic relief character. (Trouble is, comics are supposed to be FUNNY...)
>
>    As said, he was characterized as a diplomat (at least in principle), so
> in that context it makes sense.

I doubt that Quigon could have known that he was a good diplomat 45 
seconds after having met him. Even if he really was...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On 27/09/2011 09:58 PM, Warp wrote:

>    As an example, episode 3 does not really convey very well *why* Anakin
> chose the dark side. There are bits and pieces here and there, but it just
> gives a feeling that he switched sides for no good reason at all, and it
> makes no sense. A much better script could have made that plot point much
> more evident, logical and dramatic.

What he just said.

IMHO, the Jedi Council were complete dicks. It's not surprising that 
Anakin was seriously hacked off about it. It's also clear that in spite 
of that, he still felt loyal to them, for whatever else they might do, 
they are ultimately a force for good. It's also clear that the Emperor 
was pushing his buttons all along, as he always does, to manipulate 
people according to his own evil plans.

But then, for no adaquately explored reason, Anakin just suddenly swaps 
sides. And then they have a big fight. WTF?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

>> But no... at one point, the guy just snaps and starts behaving in a
>> completely illogical manner.
>
> I think the point of ep3 was that with all the stress Annikin was under,
> his reaction was perfectly rational and logical.

It's clear Anakin was being manipulated. It's clear the Jedi Council 
were less than supportive towards him, and he deeply resented it. It's 
clear he was deeply conflicted. And it's also clear that despite 
everything, he still felt loyal to the Jedi.

Until that one scene where suddenly, for no apparent reason, he just 
switches sides and never looks back. It's as if the writers ran out of 
time to write the story properly or something...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> I doubt that Quigon could have known that he was a good diplomat 45 
> seconds after having met him. Even if he really was...

  Quigon is a jedi.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 22:05:04 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> But no... at one point, the guy just snaps and starts behaving in a
>>> completely illogical manner.
>>
>> I think the point of ep3 was that with all the stress Annikin was
>> under, his reaction was perfectly rational and logical.
> 
> It's clear Anakin was being manipulated. It's clear the Jedi Council
> were less than supportive towards him, and he deeply resented it. It's
> clear he was deeply conflicted. And it's also clear that despite
> everything, he still felt loyal to the Jedi.

He was manipulated by both sides.

> Until that one scene where suddenly, for no apparent reason, he just
> switches sides and never looks back. It's as if the writers ran out of
> time to write the story properly or something...

Well, no, he eventually reached a point where, as you say, "something 
snapped" - and the pressure applied because of the death of his mother 
and his perception that Obi-Wan was betraying him pushed him over the 
edge.

In real life, people can take only so much before they break.  Annikin 
reached his breaking point, and the push took him more towards the 'dark 
side' than not - as he was manipulated through his emotions and his 
emotions ultimately took over.

Luke made a similar journey, but proved to be stronger than his father, 
and chose not to go to the dark side.

Jim

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On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:58:25 -0400, Warp wrote:

> Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 9/27/2011 3:13 AM, Invisible wrote:
> 
>> > The later films are much worse.
>> >
>> >
>> I dunno, I sort of liked Ep. 3 ...
> 
>   The problem with that, and in fact the entire trilogy, is that there
>   are
> some good ideas underneath, but for some strange reason the writing was
> quite subpar, which more or less destroyed all the good ideas. With
> better writing it could have been much better.

I think a big part of the prequel trilogy was not so much the writing 
(though clearly it could have been better, as we've seen the lead actors 
play roles that they did quite well in, but in the prequels the acting 
was pretty flat) was that Lucas cast individual roles.  One of the 
reasons the older trilogy holds up so well is because the actors actually 
acted well as an ensemble (indeed, Lucas said he cast those films as an 
ensemble rather than as individual roles).

>   As an example, episode 3 does not really convey very well *why* Anakin
> chose the dark side. There are bits and pieces here and there, but it
> just gives a feeling that he switched sides for no good reason at all,
> and it makes no sense. A much better script could have made that plot
> point much more evident, logical and dramatic.

I think it could've been done better, sure - but I do think that the 
story did convey Annikin's reasons for switching pretty well.  He was 
raised as a slave, and his mother was his world.  Then he was yanked out 
of that life, his mother was captured and died, and then he tried to keep 
his relationship with Padme secret, felt betrayed by the Jedi in general 
and Obi-Wan in particular, and just kept getting pushed further and 
further until he broke.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Le 2011/09/27 18:31, Jim Henderson a écrit :
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 22:05:04 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>
>>>> But no... at one point, the guy just snaps and starts behaving in a
>>>> completely illogical manner.
>>>
>>> I think the point of ep3 was that with all the stress Annikin was
>>> under, his reaction was perfectly rational and logical.
>>
>> It's clear Anakin was being manipulated. It's clear the Jedi Council
>> were less than supportive towards him, and he deeply resented it. It's
>> clear he was deeply conflicted. And it's also clear that despite
>> everything, he still felt loyal to the Jedi.
>
> He was manipulated by both sides.
>
>> Until that one scene where suddenly, for no apparent reason, he just
>> switches sides and never looks back. It's as if the writers ran out of
>> time to write the story properly or something...
>
> Well, no, he eventually reached a point where, as you say, "something
> snapped" - and the pressure applied because of the death of his mother
> and his perception that Obi-Wan was betraying him pushed him over the
> edge.
>
> In real life, people can take only so much before they break.  Annikin
> reached his breaking point, and the push took him more towards the 'dark
> side' than not - as he was manipulated through his emotions and his
> emotions ultimately took over.
>
> Luke made a similar journey, but proved to be stronger than his father,
> and chose not to go to the dark side.
>
> Jim

Star War was originaly made as a 3 parts saga made of 3 
periods/trilogies. Rise of the Empire, The rebelion, The new Republic.

We are yet to get episods 7, 8 and 9 that where originaly planed. The 
scripts where writen a long time ago...
Aparently, Luke will go totaly to the dark side, but will manage to, 
with some great help from Leila, come back to the bright side and 
ultimately manage to master both sides in an harmonious way.

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>>    As an example, episode 3 does not really convey very well *why* Anakin
>> chose the dark side.
>
> I think it could've been done better, sure - but I do think that the
> story did convey Annikin's reasons for switching pretty well.

This is the Metacritic effect I spoke of in another thread... Humans are 
so utterly subjective, man!

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Alain escreveu:
> Star War was originaly made as a 3 parts saga made of 3 
> periods/trilogies. Rise of the Empire, The rebelion, The new Republic.

That's what George Lucas likes to say after it became a success.  But in 
reality, it was just a nod to old scifi serialized movies from the 30's, 
40's, not unlike Indiana Jones too.  It starts in the 3rd episode just 
to give that mood hangups of old serials, there was nothing planned for 
future or past stories.  It was a huge financial success and they 
hurried to imagine sequences in the following years and even much more 
time to think of possible prequels.

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

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On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 14:26:49 -0400, Alain wrote:

> Star War was originaly made as a 3 parts saga made of 3
> periods/trilogies. Rise of the Empire, The rebelion, The new Republic.

Yep, I remember that from when I was a kid.  I used to dream about 
watching all 9 films back-to-back.

> We are yet to get episods 7, 8 and 9 that where originaly planed. The
> scripts where writen a long time ago... Aparently, Luke will go totaly
> to the dark side, but will manage to, with some great help from Leila,
> come back to the bright side and ultimately manage to master both sides
> in an harmonious way.

It doesn't sound like we'll get to hear that story, though.

Jim

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On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 21:33:11 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>>    As an example, episode 3 does not really convey very well *why*
>>>    Anakin
>>> chose the dark side.
>>
>> I think it could've been done better, sure - but I do think that the
>> story did convey Annikin's reasons for switching pretty well.
> 
> This is the Metacritic effect I spoke of in another thread... Humans are
> so utterly subjective, man!

Absolutely, man! ;)

Jim

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On 9/28/2011 4:57 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> We are yet to get episods 7, 8 and 9 that where originaly planed. The
>> scripts where writen a long time ago... Aparently, Luke will go totaly
>> to the dark side, but will manage to, with some great help from Leila,
>> come back to the bright side and ultimately manage to master both sides
>> in an harmonious way.
>
> It doesn't sound like we'll get to hear that story, though.
>
> Jim

Odd. I had heard that it was Lea that went off kilter. Think that was 
taken out of some books or other though, and its uncertain how/if any of 
those have any relationship to anything like canon. Still, *some* parts 
of the story line, sort of, get played out in the games that where made 
as well. I supposed that 7, 8 and 9 might be "in between" the end of 6 
and the first game, or something, but... Who knows.

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>> Star War was originaly made as a 3 parts saga made of 3
>> periods/trilogies. Rise of the Empire, The rebelion, The new Republic.
>
> Yep, I remember that from when I was a kid.  I used to dream about
> watching all 9 films back-to-back.

I watched the extended versions of all three LotR films in the same day 
once.

I felt like I just ran a marathon or something...

>> We are yet to get episods 7, 8 and 9 that where originaly planed. The
>> scripts where writen a long time ago... Aparently, Luke will go totaly
>> to the dark side, but will manage to, with some great help from Leila,
>> come back to the bright side and ultimately manage to master both sides
>> in an harmonious way.
>
> It doesn't sound like we'll get to hear that story, though.

That's the thing about Episode 3. Who wants to see a guy go mad and 
become evil? That's not a very happy story...

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On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 09:16:20 +0100, Invisible wrote:

>>> Star War was originaly made as a 3 parts saga made of 3
>>> periods/trilogies. Rise of the Empire, The rebelion, The new Republic.
>>
>> Yep, I remember that from when I was a kid.  I used to dream about
>> watching all 9 films back-to-back.
> 
> I watched the extended versions of all three LotR films in the same day
> once.
> 
> I felt like I just ran a marathon or something...

We do that once a year (this year twice, because we got the Blu-Ray 
versions).  It is a marathon, has to be started around 9 AM to finish at 
a reasonable time. :)

>>> We are yet to get episods 7, 8 and 9 that where originaly planed. The
>>> scripts where writen a long time ago... Aparently, Luke will go totaly
>>> to the dark side, but will manage to, with some great help from Leila,
>>> come back to the bright side and ultimately manage to master both
>>> sides in an harmonious way.
>>
>> It doesn't sound like we'll get to hear that story, though.
> 
> That's the thing about Episode 3. Who wants to see a guy go mad and
> become evil? That's not a very happy story...

Not all stories are intended to be 'happy'.  Empire Strikes Back ends 
with the rebels getting their asses handed to them.  Not exactly a 
cheerful ending, but most consider it the best of the 6 films.

I was glad that episode 3 ended the way it did - how else could it have 
ended, given what the audience knows about Vader after episode 6?

Jim

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Jim Henderson escreveu:
> On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 21:33:11 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> 
>>>>    As an example, episode 3 does not really convey very well *why*
>>>>    Anakin
>>>> chose the dark side.
>>> I think it could've been done better, sure - but I do think that the
>>> story did convey Annikin's reasons for switching pretty well.
>> This is the Metacritic effect I spoke of in another thread... Humans are
>> so utterly subjective, man!
> 
> Absolutely, man! ;)

They are not.

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On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:22:07 -0300, nemesis wrote:

> Jim Henderson escreveu:
>> On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 21:33:11 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> 
>>>>>    As an example, episode 3 does not really convey very well *why*
>>>>>    Anakin
>>>>> chose the dark side.
>>>> I think it could've been done better, sure - but I do think that the
>>>> story did convey Annikin's reasons for switching pretty well.
>>> This is the Metacritic effect I spoke of in another thread... Humans
>>> are so utterly subjective, man!
>> 
>> Absolutely, man! ;)
> 
> They are not.

Are so! ;)

Jim

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Le 2011/09/29 12:22, nemesis a écrit :
> Jim Henderson escreveu:
>> On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 21:33:11 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>
>>>>> As an example, episode 3 does not really convey very well *why*
>>>>> Anakin
>>>>> chose the dark side.
>>>> I think it could've been done better, sure - but I do think that the
>>>> story did convey Annikin's reasons for switching pretty well.
>>> This is the Metacritic effect I spoke of in another thread... Humans are
>>> so utterly subjective, man!
>>
>> Absolutely, man! ;)
>
> They are not.

The answer depends on your point of view. So, you are all both right 
*AND* wrong ;P

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>>>> This is the Metacritic effect I spoke of in another thread... Humans
>>>> are so utterly subjective, man!
>>>
>>> Absolutely, man! ;)
>>
>> They are not.
>
> The answer depends on your point of view. So, you are all both right
> *AND* wrong ;P

Ah, the Law of the Excluded Middle...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> I watched the extended versions of all three LotR films in the same day
>> once.
>>
>> I felt like I just ran a marathon or something...
>
> We do that once a year (this year twice, because we got the Blu-Ray
> versions).  It is a marathon, has to be started around 9 AM to finish at
> a reasonable time. :)

Oh, wait - I thought you meant you *actually* run a marathon one a year. o_O

>> That's the thing about Episode 3. Who wants to see a guy go mad and
>> become evil? That's not a very happy story...
>
> Not all stories are intended to be 'happy'.

Yeah, that's the part I never understood. If I /wanted/ to be unhappy, I 
could just look at reality. I mean, in a few years' time I'm going to 
die, alone and unloved, and nobody is going to care. That's prety much 
sadder than anything any story writer can come up with.

I want stories as a /escape/ from reality. :-P

> Empire Strikes Back ends
> with the rebels getting their asses handed to them.  Not exactly a
> cheerful ending, but most consider it the best of the 6 films.

Um... it ends with the rebels describing the AWESOME PLAN they've 
hatched to epically overthrow the Empire. Which worked, by the way. 
Sounds like a pretty up-beat ending to me...

> I was glad that episode 3 ended the way it did - how else could it have
> ended, given what the audience knows about Vader after episode 6?

Well, that's the other thing. It's like watching Titanic. Everybody 
dies. You know that before the opening titles. So why bother watching?

(Unless you're like those kids who were overheard laughing at the idea 
that the events debated REALLY DID HAPPEN...)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On 9/28/2011 13:40, nemesis wrote:
> It starts in the 3rd episode

Not originally. There was no "Episode IV" in the first release of the film.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   How come I never get only one kudo?

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On 9/27/2011 14:02, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> It's also clear that the Emperor was pushing
> his buttons all along,

I found that when watching the prequels, it makes way more sense if you 
think of them as being about Palpintine instead of Anikin. (Or however you 
spell those.)


-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   How come I never get only one kudo?

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On 29-9-2011 21:45, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> I watched the extended versions of all three LotR films in the same day
>>> once.
>>>
>>> I felt like I just ran a marathon or something...
>>
>> We do that once a year (this year twice, because we got the Blu-Ray
>> versions). It is a marathon, has to be started around 9 AM to finish at
>> a reasonable time. :)
>
> Oh, wait - I thought you meant you *actually* run a marathon one a year.
> o_O

No big deal, it is only about 115 meters per day.

>>> That's the thing about Episode 3. Who wants to see a guy go mad and
>>> become evil? That's not a very happy story...
>>
>> Not all stories are intended to be 'happy'.
>
> Yeah, that's the part I never understood. If I /wanted/ to be unhappy, I
> could just look at reality. I mean, in a few years' time I'm going to
> die, alone and unloved, and nobody is going to care. That's prety much
> sadder than anything any story writer can come up with.

Says the guy who has a girlfriend.

> I want stories as a /escape/ from reality. :-P
>
>> Empire Strikes Back ends
>> with the rebels getting their asses handed to them. Not exactly a
>> cheerful ending, but most consider it the best of the 6 films.
>
> Um... it ends with the rebels describing the AWESOME PLAN they've
> hatched to epically overthrow the Empire. Which worked, by the way.
> Sounds like a pretty up-beat ending to me...
>
>> I was glad that episode 3 ended the way it did - how else could it have
>> ended, given what the audience knows about Vader after episode 6?
>
> Well, that's the other thing. It's like watching Titanic. Everybody
> dies. You know that before the opening titles. So why bother watching?
>
> (Unless you're like those kids who were overheard laughing at the idea
> that the events debated REALLY DID HAPPEN...)

Episode 3 is one of the most difficult films ever made from a scripting 
point of view. The entire audience knows all the characters and all they 
have done. There are numerous of gaps between 2 and 4 and you have to 
fill them all and still make something interesting, preferably adding 
new ideas in the little time that remains between the must do's.

-- 
Apparently you can afford your own dictator for less than 10 cents per 
citizen per day.

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>> Oh, wait - I thought you meant you *actually* run a marathon one a year.
>> o_O
>
> No big deal, it is only about 115 meters per day.

Hmm. When you put it like that... even *I* probably walk further than 
that on most days...

>>> Not all stories are intended to be 'happy'.
>>
>> Yeah, that's the part I never understood. If I /wanted/ to be unhappy, I
>> could just look at reality. I mean, in a few years' time I'm going to
>> die, alone and unloved, and nobody is going to care. That's prety much
>> sadder than anything any story writer can come up with.
>
> Says the guy who has a girlfriend.

Who, me? Nope; I'm completely single...

> Episode 3 is one of the most difficult films ever made from a scripting
> point of view.

Well, there's not much argument about that.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:04:16 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> On 9/27/2011 14:02, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> It's also clear that the Emperor was pushing his buttons all along,
> 
> I found that when watching the prequels, it makes way more sense if you
> think of them as being about Palpintine instead of Anikin. (Or however
> you spell those.)

That does make sense....

Jim

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On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 15:32:32 -0400, Alain wrote:

> Le 2011/09/29 12:22, nemesis a écrit :
>> Jim Henderson escreveu:
>>> On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 21:33:11 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> As an example, episode 3 does not really convey very well *why*
>>>>>> Anakin
>>>>>> chose the dark side.
>>>>> I think it could've been done better, sure - but I do think that the
>>>>> story did convey Annikin's reasons for switching pretty well.
>>>> This is the Metacritic effect I spoke of in another thread... Humans
>>>> are so utterly subjective, man!
>>>
>>> Absolutely, man! ;)
>>
>> They are not.
> 
> The answer depends on your point of view. So, you are all both right
> *AND* wrong ;P

Hmm, so you're saying it's subjective. ;)

Jim

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