On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 18:38:30 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> It still amuses me when I see people in the lab sitting in front of a
>>> PC with a 3 GHz dual-core 64-bit processor, and using a desktop
>>> calculator to work out what numbers to key into the computer. ;-)
>>
>> It's all about familiarity.  They probably are much faster on a
>> calculator keypad. :)
> 
> Well, at least you don't have to worry about it lagging out because the
> scheduled antivirus scan just kicked in... Even so, there's something
> deeply broken about purchasing a powerful computational device and then
> purchasing another one to do the actual math for you.

Sometimes a simpler tool is a better tool. :)

Jim

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On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 18:42:47 +0200, andrel wrote:

> On 5-10-2011 17:50, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 16:03:07 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>>
>>>>>> To be fair, if there were a few more items, you'd probably need to
>>>>>> write it down just to keep track of it all. But two pencil
>>>>>> sharpeners which are £1.95 each shouldn't trouble anybody...
>>>>>
>>>>> I blame the education system. I don’t know what for but something is
>>>>> to blame.
>>>>
>>>> Technology.  Why should one have to figure out how to do sums when
>>>> everyone has a phone with a calculator built into it?
>>>
>>> Heh. My phone has a calculator, but it'll take you five minutes to
>>> figure out which submenu it's burried under. And then to remember
>>> which key you have to hold for 3 seconds to make the various
>>> mathematical operators appear...
>>>
>>> (Then again, it'll take you 20 seconds just to cancel out of the
>>> random submenu that the phone has opened in your pocket for no defined
>>> reason.)
>>
>> Well, that's why I put a shortcut on the screen for it. :)
>>
>>> It still amuses me when I see people in the lab sitting in front of a
>>> PC with a 3 GHz dual-core 64-bit processor, and using a desktop
>>> calculator to work out what numbers to key into the computer. ;-)
>>
>> It's all about familiarity.  They probably are much faster on a
>> calculator keypad. :)
> 
> Ever noticed that the keyboard has a calculator side pad? 

Not on my laptop.  And compared to a calculator, the numeric keypad's 
numbers are reversed (1-3 at the bottom rather than at the top).

> That most
> calculators use this and that you can copy paste answers. Indeed they
> didn't.

Sure, there are benefits.  I'd have to be stupid not to know *that*.

Jim

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On 9/30/2011 11:59 AM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>
> What worries me is the possibility of a theory not being taken seriously
> because nobody likes it, rather than because the theory doesn't work...
>

That has happened before, and it will happen again.

-- 
~Mike

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On 10/5/2011 9:42, andrel wrote:
> Ever noticed that the keyboard has a calculator side pad?

Back when spreadsheets were the killer app, people were annoyed that the 
number keys and the arrow keys were the same keys. So now we have two sets 
of number keys *and* two sets of arrow keys.

Me, I'm about to buy a keyboard with no numpad, and with the insert/home/etc 
and the arrow keys in ... odd positions, just so it's small enough I don't 
have to put my mouse on a different desk just to fit all they keys I never use.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   How come I never get only one kudo?

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>> What worries me is the possibility of a theory not being taken seriously
>> because nobody likes it, rather than because the theory doesn't work...
>
> That has happened before, and it will happen again.

Any concrete examples?

Every example I know of where a theory wasn't believed because it seemed 
too silly, eventually facts won out.

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>> Ever noticed that the keyboard has a calculator side pad?
>
> Not on my laptop.

My new laptop does though. ;-)

> And compared to a calculator, the numeric keypad's
> numbers are reversed (1-3 at the bottom rather than at the top).

 From what I've seen, both layouts are equally common.

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On 06/10/2011 02:10 AM, Darren New wrote:
> On 10/5/2011 9:42, andrel wrote:
>> Ever noticed that the keyboard has a calculator side pad?
>
> Back when spreadsheets were the killer app, people were annoyed that the
> number keys and the arrow keys were the same keys. So now we have two
> sets of number keys *and* two sets of arrow keys.

I'm still trying to figure out how to make it permanently impossible to 
ever turn numlock off under any circumstances. Every single ****ing time 
I use Linux, I seem to have to turn numlock back on every 20 seconds. I 
DO NOT EVER WANT IT TO TURN OFF!!! >_<

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>> Well, at least you don't have to worry about it lagging out because the
>> scheduled antivirus scan just kicked in... Even so, there's something
>> deeply broken about purchasing a powerful computational device and then
>> purchasing another one to do the actual math for you.
>
> Sometimes a simpler tool is a better tool. :)

Dude, that's like saying that sometimes a 1/4 lb planishing hammer is 
better than a 6 lb sledgehammer!

Oh, wait...

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On 10/6/2011 1:02, Invisible wrote:
>  From what I've seen, both layouts are equally common.

AT&T actually studied about 20 or 25 different keyboard layouts, including 
2x5, circular, all four rectangles, etc, to see how fast people could dial 
each one.  You got the one that won out.

I don't know if similar studies were ever done for calculators, but I'd 
expect not.  I suspect it's more that they had the low numbers lower on the 
keyboard for consistency with older mechanical calculators where the low 
numbers had to be physically farther from the display.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   How come I never get only one kudo?

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Le 2011/10/05 14:18, Jim Henderson a écrit :
> On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 18:42:47 +0200, andrel wrote:
>
>> On 5-10-2011 17:50, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 16:03:07 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> To be fair, if there were a few more items, you'd probably need to
>>>>>>> write it down just to keep track of it all. But two pencil
>>>>>>> sharpeners which are £1.95 each shouldn't trouble anybody...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I blame the education system. I don’t know what for but something is
>>>>>> to blame.
>>>>>
>>>>> Technology.  Why should one have to figure out how to do sums when
>>>>> everyone has a phone with a calculator built into it?
>>>>
>>>> Heh. My phone has a calculator, but it'll take you five minutes to
>>>> figure out which submenu it's burried under. And then to remember
>>>> which key you have to hold for 3 seconds to make the various
>>>> mathematical operators appear...
>>>>
>>>> (Then again, it'll take you 20 seconds just to cancel out of the
>>>> random submenu that the phone has opened in your pocket for no defined
>>>> reason.)
>>>
>>> Well, that's why I put a shortcut on the screen for it. :)
>>>
>>>> It still amuses me when I see people in the lab sitting in front of a
>>>> PC with a 3 GHz dual-core 64-bit processor, and using a desktop
>>>> calculator to work out what numbers to key into the computer. ;-)
>>>
>>> It's all about familiarity.  They probably are much faster on a
>>> calculator keypad. :)
>>
>> Ever noticed that the keyboard has a calculator side pad?
>
> Not on my laptop.  And compared to a calculator, the numeric keypad's
> numbers are reversed (1-3 at the bottom rather than at the top).
>
>> That most
>> calculators use this and that you can copy paste answers. Indeed they
>> didn't.
>
> Sure, there are benefits.  I'd have to be stupid not to know *that*.
>
> Jim

I've never ever seen any calculator with the 1 2 3 keys at the top. 
Phones, yes, always, calculators, never.

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