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Eventually I grew tired of the frustration of Braid. Frustrated enough
to actually give up on trying to finish it. Whatever lays at the end -
if anything - isn't worth the cost of buying a new monitor because I've
put my fist through the current one.
That being the case, I bought Bastion. (Working through the alphabet here.)
This was a little more pricey, at £12. (Still peanuts compared to the
£40 for Modern Warfare 3, which isn't even out yet.) It weighs in at
just under 1GB. (Again peanuts compared to the triple-A titles.)
Unlike Braid, I just can't stop playing this. It's really entertaining.
It's difficult to explain... OK, start by watching this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TptJHeWngJs
Now you know what the art style is like. Which is good, because I have
no idea what kind of adjectives you'd use to describe it. The game
describes itself as "100% hand-painted, scanned in 1080i HD". To be
sure, on my monitor it looks very crisp indeed. The lines are sharp, the
colours are rich, and the main character animation is very, very fluid.
There's one small issue with this game. It doesn't make sense. It's a
bit like if you picked up a copy of The Hobbit and opened it on chapter
15. You wouldn't be able to make any sense out of it. Bits and pieces
would make sense, but you'd still be mighty confused. That's what this
game is like.
Basically, you wake up lying in a bed, in a room floating in empty
space. As you walk to the door, rocks appear out of thin air and fly up
to form a walkway in front of you. For reasons unknown, THE ENTIRE GAME
plays like this. Everywhere you go, you're walking on floating platforms
in space, which materialise as you walk towards them.
So basically, this is your standard isometric platformer. You beat up
bad guys, collect powerups, earn "XP" (whatever that is), find money,
buy stuff at shops, customise your loadout, etc. The usual deal.
The unusual thing is the vibrant graphics and fluid animation. Also, if
you've watched the trailer above, you've heard The Narrator. He talks to
you during the entire course of the game. Almost everything you do, he
says lines of dialogue for.
Usually when games do this, that just means that the narration states
the obvious, or states something which doesn't /quite/ match what you
just did. (E.g., the narrator says "he waits patently for the lift" when
actually you're walking around getting bored.) This game somehow manages
to utter /correct/ lines of dialogue for EVERY SINGLE ACTION. It's
really quite amazing. Sure, it doesn't "really" change the actual
gameplay in any way. And some people might find the Old West accent
cheesy. But personally I really like it.
Also, this is one of those games that has a story deeper than a teacup.
Which makes it all the more frustrating that it doesn't make sense yet.
I don't know if it ever will start making sense, or whether I'd have to
go a bazillion side-quests for that.
Also, one or two aspects of the gameplay aren't explained real well.
Like, it took me 15 minutes to realise that you can use the mouse to do
things, it's not just keyboard-controlled. (Unfortunately, various
messages about how you can use controls flash past far too fast to
read.) It took me about 30 minutes to get used to using keyboard /and/
mouse at the same time. But I think I'm good with it now.
I don't know how big the game actually is, but I spent about 7 hours
playing it yesterday and I don't /think/ I'm anywhere near the end yet
(though I can't really tell).
In summary:
- Appears to be quite large. Certainly 7 hours of intense playtime
didn't exhaust it.
- Holds out the promise (as yet unrealised) of an interesting story
that's going to start making sense any time soon now.
- Lush visuals.
- Effective and varied music.
- Impressive (though arguably unnecessary) narration.
- Wide range of locations and enemies.
- More powerups, collectables, items, configurations, etc. than you
could possibly get bored with.
It's not the most amazing game I've ever played in my life, but if you
have £12 spare, it's definitely worth checking it out. I can't wait to
get home tonight and play more of it.
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On 30/08/2011 10:54 AM, Invisible wrote:
> It's difficult to explain... OK, start by watching this:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TptJHeWngJs
>
> Now you know what the art style is like. Which is good, because I have
> no idea what kind of adjectives you'd use to describe it.
Also... Is it just me, or does the music in that video sound
suspiciously like it's a rehash of Seven Lives by Enigma?
(This music doesn't appear anywhere in the game, as best as I can tell.
The in-game music appears to be completely original - and rather good.)
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On 30/08/2011 10:54 AM, Invisible wrote:
> There's one small issue with this game. It doesn't make sense. It's a
> bit like if you picked up a copy of The Hobbit and opened it on chapter
> 15. You wouldn't be able to make any sense out of it. Bits and pieces
> would make sense, but you'd still be mighty confused. That's what this
> game is like.
>
> Basically, you wake up lying in a bed, in a room floating in empty
> space. As you walk to the door, rocks appear out of thin air and fly up
> to form a walkway in front of you. For reasons unknown, THE ENTIRE GAME
> plays like this. Everywhere you go, you're walking on floating platforms
> in space, which materialise as you walk towards them.
"Floor flies up, buildin' a path, as if to point the way; kid doesn't
stop to wonder why."
[I accidentally walk off the edge of the path.]
"And with that, the he falls to his death."
[My character respawns just where I left him.]
"Naw, I'm just messin'."
[I walk up to the petrified statues of some people.]
"Looks like ol' Fred and Nelly didn't survive the Calamity."
[I smash the statues.]
"Kid doesn't much care to see 'em. Not like this."
Not long after that, I find myself battling gas guys, scumbags, ball
squirts, Pith the God of Commotion, wall flowers, pincushions, peckers,
stinkweed, and even anklegators. Me and my trusty War Machete, Brusher's
Carbine and a sackful of health tonics travel to strange and interesting
places. And something resembling a sensical story is just beginning to
emerge...
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On 08/30/2011 06:54 AM, Invisible wrote:
> Unlike Braid, I just can't stop playing this. It's really entertaining.
> It's difficult to explain... OK, start by watching this:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TptJHeWngJs
Yes the artwork looks really cool, and I could live with the narration
if the style in the trailer is anything like what's in the game. So
you'd most likely be bored to death quickly with FFNG ;-) But hey I'm
easily entertained (a blessing I suppose) ... I've been getting plenty
of mileage from Angry Birds on my iPod touch. I also like the zippo
lighter as well. Reorient the display and the flame always points up.
I've got it so that I can snap my fingers to open the top (complete with
classic zippo sound), and another snap for the flame ... LOL like I
said, I'm easily entertained!
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Le 2011-08-30 05:54, Invisible a écrit :
> earn "XP" (whatever that is)
eXperience Points. In most fantasy role playing games, a certain amount
of XP will allow you to improve your skill level. Allowing you to learn
new fighting techniques, or fancier spells, depending on your character
class.
--
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/* flabreque */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/* @ */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/* gmail.com */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }
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On 30/08/2011 01:25 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
> Le 2011-08-30 05:54, Invisible a écrit :
>> earn "XP" (whatever that is)
>
> eXperience Points. In most fantasy role playing games, a certain amount
> of XP will allow you to improve your skill level. Allowing you to learn
> new fighting techniques, or fancier spells, depending on your character
> class.
Riiiight. So that's why they named it "Windows XP"...
Incidentally, I have no idea what "fantasy role playing game" actually
means.
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On 30/08/2011 12:48 PM, Jim Holsenback wrote:
> Yes the artwork looks really cool, and I could live with the narration
> if the style in the trailer is anything like what's in the game.
It's pretty much /exactly/ like this in the game. I still can't get over
how naturally it fits the action. (Then again, maybe I'm just easily
impressed.)
Also... does bourbon really taste "buttery"?
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Invisible <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
> On 30/08/2011 01:25 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
> > Le 2011-08-30 05:54, Invisible a écrit :
> >> earn "XP" (whatever that is)
> >
> > eXperience Points. In most fantasy role playing games, a certain amount
> > of XP will allow you to improve your skill level. Allowing you to learn
> > new fighting techniques, or fancier spells, depending on your character
> > class.
> Riiiight. So that's why they named it "Windows XP"...
> Incidentally, I have no idea what "fantasy role playing game" actually
> means.
You are the most specialized computer nerd I have ever seen. You seem to
know everything about an incredibly small sector of computer stuff and
absolutely nothing about the rest, which is unlike most computer nerds,
who know at least *something* about everything that is popular among such
nerds.
I have hard time believing that you have never heard of the concept of
exp in computer role-playing games.
--
- Warp
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>>> eXperience Points. In most fantasy role playing games, a certain amount
>>> of XP will allow you to improve your skill level. Allowing you to learn
>>> new fighting techniques, or fancier spells, depending on your character
>>> class.
>
>> Riiiight. So that's why they named it "Windows XP"...
>
>> Incidentally, I have no idea what "fantasy role playing game" actually
>> means.
>
> You are the most specialized computer nerd I have ever seen. You seem to
> know everything about an incredibly small sector of computer stuff and
> absolutely nothing about the rest, which is unlike most computer nerds,
> who know at least *something* about everything that is popular among such
> nerds.
>
> I have hard time believing that you have never heard of the concept of
> exp in computer role-playing games.
Apparently I don't play that particular sort of game very much. Why, is
there a law against that? :-P
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Apparently I don't play that particular sort of game very much. Why, is
> there a law against that? :-P
You lose nerd points for not knowing such basics.
--
- Warp
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On 30/08/2011 04:23 PM, Warp wrote:
> Invisible<voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> Apparently I don't play that particular sort of game very much. Why, is
>> there a law against that? :-P
>
> You lose nerd points for not knowing such basics.
You see this face? This is my "I'm really not worried" face.
Liberating, isn't it? :-D
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> On 30/08/2011 04:23 PM, Warp wrote:
> > Invisible<voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> >> Apparently I don't play that particular sort of game very much. Why, is
> >> there a law against that? :-P
> >
> > You lose nerd points for not knowing such basics.
> You see this face? This is my "I'm really not worried" face.
> Liberating, isn't it? :-D
But you see. Being a nerd but not being *enough* of a nerd puts you in
the uncomfortable zone of not being either hipster enough to be cool, nor
nerdy enough to be cool. It's that middle ground where both hipsters and
nerds mock you.
--
- Warp
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>>> You lose nerd points for not knowing such basics.
>
>> You see this face? This is my "I'm really not worried" face.
>
>> Liberating, isn't it? :-D
>
> But you see. Being a nerd but not being *enough* of a nerd puts you in
> the uncomfortable zone of not being either hipster enough to be cool, nor
> nerdy enough to be cool. It's that middle ground where both hipsters and
> nerds mock you.
You may be right about that. But you know what? I'm still not worried.
Because right now, I'm the happiest I've ever been in my life. :-D
OK, granted, until now my life has been pretty miserable, so I guess
that's not much of a record. But hey, if I'm happy, why worry?
You know what I posted here exactly one year ago today? The announcement
that I finally hooked up with a girl. So, yeah, I can live with not
being the biggest nerd, or not being hip enough for the crowd. People
like me, and that's fine with me. :-)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Am 30.08.2011 19:58, schrieb Orchid XP v8:
> You know what I posted here exactly one year ago today? The announcement
> that I finally hooked up with a girl. So, yeah, I can live with not
> being the biggest nerd, or not being hip enough for the crowd. People
> like me, and that's fine with me. :-)
Gee, time flies!
Enjoy!
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On 8/30/2011 7:02 AM, Invisible wrote:
>> I have hard time believing that you have never heard of the concept of
>> exp in computer role-playing games.
>
> Apparently I don't play that particular sort of game very much. Why, is
> there a law against that? :-P
Uh.. Unless your main sort of game is puzzles and/or Go, its pretty hard
to never run across XP, of some sort, or FPS which *do not* let you
improve skills. Hell, even Deus Ex: Human Revolution, which I have just
been playing, has it (though I am wishing I had upgraded my armor for
electrical shock supressing, instead of putting all of it into
stealth/hacking, given the current boss I am fighting... lol).
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Le 2011-08-30 08:34, Invisible a écrit :
> On 30/08/2011 01:25 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
>> Le 2011-08-30 05:54, Invisible a écrit :
>>> earn "XP" (whatever that is)
>>
>> eXperience Points. In most fantasy role playing games, a certain amount
>> of XP will allow you to improve your skill level. Allowing you to learn
>> new fighting techniques, or fancier spells, depending on your character
>> class.
>
> Riiiight. So that's why they named it "Windows XP"...
>
> Incidentally, I have no idea what "fantasy role playing game" actually
> means.
You see, back in the days before the advent of computers, people used to
sit around tables and play games. Some were board games (chess,
checkers, Monopoly, etc...), some were card games (poker, bridge,
etc...) Then, in the late 1970s, a new type of game came out, it was
called "role playing games" (RPG for short, not to be confused with the
RPGs you hear about on the evening news, which stands for
"rocket-propelled grenade"). Each player played the part of a character
and would interact with a story told by another player who also acted as
a referee. Some of these role-playing were set in a futuristic world
and were called "sci-fi RPGs", while others were set in medieval,
fantasy settings, filled with elves, dragons, and wizards; these were
the "fanstasy RPGs", the most popular of which was called "Dungeons and
Dragons". There were also "Horror" RPGs, based on the works of H.P.
Lovecraft, Bram Stoker, et al. And various quirky ones that were
difficult to categorize, such as Paranoia, Car Wars, War Hammer, etc...
If you've never heard of D&D, I'm going to have to side with Warp and
ask that you hand in your nerd card.
Footnotes:
- Some people still play RPGs.
- Some people even act them out in real life, this is called LARPing
(Live Action Role Playing). See for example,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw
- The D&D universe was of course introduced to the computer gaming
world, in the early 80s, but the most popular D&D-based games has to be
the "Baldur's Gate" series, that I'm sure you're familiar with.
--
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/* flabreque */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/* @ */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/* gmail.com */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }
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On 30/08/2011 11:31 PM, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> On 8/30/2011 7:02 AM, Invisible wrote:
>>> I have hard time believing that you have never heard of the concept of
>>> exp in computer role-playing games.
>>
>> Apparently I don't play that particular sort of game very much. Why, is
>> there a law against that? :-P
> Uh.. Unless your main sort of game is puzzles and/or Go, its pretty hard
> to never run across XP, of some sort, or FPS which *do not* let you
> improve skills. Hell, even Deus Ex: Human Revolution, which I have just
> been playing, has it (though I am wishing I had upgraded my armor for
> electrical shock supressing, instead of putting all of it into
> stealth/hacking, given the current boss I am fighting... lol).
OK, well let's see now...
Quake 2. No XP.
HalfLife. HalfLife: Opposing Force. Nope, no XP.
HalfLife 2, EP1, EP2... No XP.
Portal. No XP.
Team Fortress 2. No XP.
Call of Duty 4: No XP.
Modern Warfare 2: No XP.
OK, so that's a list of almost every computer game I've ever played. :-P
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> If you've never heard of D&D, I'm going to have to side with Warp and
> ask that you hand in your nerd card.
I've /heard of/ D&D. I just don't get why anybody would bother playing
it. It sounds incredibly boring.
A bit like those text-adventure games [which I'm sure somebody somewhere
still plays too].
PS. There used to be a TV series called D&D. I used to enjoy watching
that. I doubt it has anything vaguely related to the game in it though.
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Le 2011-08-31 04:46, Invisible a écrit :
>> If you've never heard of D&D, I'm going to have to side with Warp and
>> ask that you hand in your nerd card.
>
> I've /heard of/ D&D. I just don't get why anybody would bother playing
> it. It sounds incredibly boring.
>
> A bit like those text-adventure games [which I'm sure somebody somewhere
> still plays too].
>
> PS. There used to be a TV series called D&D. I used to enjoy watching
> that. I doubt it has anything vaguely related to the game in it though.
No, IIRC, the storyline was that a bunch of teenagers playing D&D were
sucked into the D&D world and were trying to go back home. All the
characters and monsters were mostly based on actual character classes
found in the AD&D (Advanced Dungeons & Dragons) first edition books.
The only thing I remember finding very unlikely about that tv series was
that there were girls playing AD&D.
--
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/* flabreque */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/* @ */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/* gmail.com */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }
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>> PS. There used to be a TV series called D&D. I used to enjoy watching
>> that. I doubt it has anything vaguely related to the game in it though.
>
> No, IIRC, the storyline was that a bunch of teenagers playing D&D were
> sucked into the D&D world and were trying to go back home.
They were definitely trying to get back home. But as I recall, they took
a ride on a magic rollercoaster. Hmm. I'll bet Wikipedia has a page
about it...
...it does. And apparently I was right.
> All the
> characters and monsters were mostly based on actual character classes
> found in the AD&D (Advanced Dungeons & Dragons) first edition books.
I'll take your word for it.
> The only thing I remember finding very unlikely about that tv series was
> that there were girls playing AD&D.
LOL! Yeah, that does sound implausible... although I hear Gail Shaw is
quite into D&D.
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> > If you've never heard of D&D, I'm going to have to side with Warp and
> > ask that you hand in your nerd card.
> I've /heard of/ D&D. I just don't get why anybody would bother playing
> it. It sounds incredibly boring.
Tabletop role-playing games can be real fun, with a competent game master.
While the overall story is more or less predetermined, the details are
determined by the players themselves. Players choose what they do, and the
game master has to adapt the events and the storyline to suit (which is not
always trivial, as you have to keep the balance between avoiding the story
from derailing too much, and avoiding the players feeling that they are just
playing a prewritten script and are not free to do whatever they want).
How much a playing session can deviate from the script outline (which
the game master usually has on paper, either purchased/copied from
somewhere, or in some cases written by himself) depends on how much the
players ignore the GM's hints and do what they want instead, and how much
the GM is willing to bend. Sometimes the GM has to refuse to accept some
action (eg. if someone wanted to suddenly kill a very plot-relevant NPC,
the GM could say "your character wouldn't do that").
Which of course means that a good game not only requires a good GM, but
also good *players*. The players have to act and react according to the
personality of their characters. A good-tempered librarian would not
suddenly kill someone in cold blood for no reason whatsoever. A player
seriously wanting for this character to do that, completely destroying
the mood, is not a good player.
One of the great things about this dynamicity is that players can come
up with new things that were not in the original script. It can sometimes
become quite imaginative. There's much more freedom to do things than with
a computer game, which is by necessity very limited. (Just from the top of
my head, a player could come up with something like "I'll stack these chairs
in front of the door so that if someone attempts to come in, the pile will
fall, alerting us", or something along those lines.)
--
- Warp
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On 31/08/2011 02:15 PM, Warp wrote:
> Tabletop role-playing games can be real fun, with a competent game master.
I can't say that I've ever actually tried it, but it doesn't sound like
something that would appeal to me. Maybe it's because seeing and hearing
exotic things is far more interesting to me than talking about social
interactions between semi-human creatures, I don't know.
> While the overall story is more or less predetermined, the details are
> determined by the players themselves. Players choose what they do, and the
> game master has to adapt the events and the storyline to suit (which is not
> always trivial, as you have to keep the balance between avoiding the story
> from derailing too much, and avoiding the players feeling that they are just
> playing a prewritten script and are not free to do whatever they want).
>
> How much a playing session can deviate from the script outline (which
> the game master usually has on paper, either purchased/copied from
> somewhere, or in some cases written by himself) depends on how much the
> players ignore the GM's hints and do what they want instead, and how much
> the GM is willing to bend. Sometimes the GM has to refuse to accept some
> action (eg. if someone wanted to suddenly kill a very plot-relevant NPC,
> the GM could say "your character wouldn't do that").
That sounds like an almost exact description of why designing a computer
game with a good story is so hard.
On the one hand, you're written a story, and that's how the game has to
play out. On the other hand, if the player(s) can't influence the game
at all, why bother playing? But if you take that too far, you end up
with something like Frontier Elite II, a game with so much "freedom"
that it's pointless to play.
In all, it's just one axis along which game design is really, really hard.
> Which of course means that a good game not only requires a good GM, but
> also good *players*.
If finding good D&D players is even remotely like finding good TF2
players... yeah, good luck with that one.
> One of the great things about this dynamicity is that players can come
> up with new things that were not in the original script. It can sometimes
> become quite imaginative. There's much more freedom to do things than with
> a computer game, which is by necessity very limited. (Just from the top of
> my head, a player could come up with something like "I'll stack these chairs
> in front of the door so that if someone attempts to come in, the pile will
> fall, alerting us", or something along those lines.)
It would be nice if computer games could be a bit more open-ended like
this. There are a number of reasons why they can't (in the foreseeable
future):
- The real world is far too expensive to simulate accurately. You have
to simplify it down, which basically means removing lots of possibilities.
- In the real world, you're generally fighting against other humans. AI
still cannot even begin to approach that level of intelligence. (E.g.,
if I *did* use chairs to block the door, the AI would be utterly
baffled, and would never figure out a solution.)
- In the real world, I can use anything I can lay my hands on. In a
computer game, I've got, like, a dozen buttons and a mouse. Very hard to
come up with a general control framework with such limited controls
available.
Those are the ones that immediately spring to mind, beyond "it would
also totally screw up the story" (which is also intractably hard for a
mere computer to sort out).
I note that while it's completely 100% possible to play computer games
with other humans, I tend to prefer playing them by myself. I guess
because that way it's more like reading a book. Or maybe just because
finding decent people to play with is so hard.
OK, I have to ask: How many times per week does this happen?
http://xkcd.com/244/
Does it ever get to more than 3 levels deep? Is it like Inception?
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Am 31.08.2011 10:39, schrieb Invisible:
> Quake 2. No XP.
>
> HalfLife. HalfLife: Opposing Force. Nope, no XP.
>
> HalfLife 2, EP1, EP2... No XP.
>
> Portal. No XP.
>
> Team Fortress 2. No XP.
>
> Call of Duty 4: No XP.
>
> Modern Warfare 2: No XP.
>
> OK, so that's a list of almost every computer game I've ever played. :-P
Ah, so the only computer game genre you've ever played is ego-shooters,
plus one ego-shooter spin-off. Granted, they only very rarely have the
concept of experience points.
Actually, the concept of XP is, to my knowledge, indeed limited to the
so-called "RPG" (roleplay game) genre.
The basic idea behind XP (and the common element in computer "RPG") is
that as you progress in the game, you unlock new skills (or improve
existing ones) over time; but instead of unlocking all of them according
to a fixed schedule as you go ahead, RPGs let you choose from a number
of various skills; you'll typically never be able to choose all of them,
so you'll usually specialize in some area(s) to fit your style of play.
For instance, you may choose skills that will typically allow you to
pick off your enemies one by one without them knowing what hits them (or
even avoiding them altogether), while limiting your options in case they
do spot you. Or you may choose to not bother about stealth, and instead
choose to improve your strength and stamina to carry heavier gear and
sustain more damage. (Just to give an example; usually the skill system
of an RPG is much more elaborate than this. Imagine a concept like the
player classes of TF2, but with lots more fine-tuning and improvement
over time.)
In virtually all RPGs, you acquire "experience points" for accomplishing
tasks, such as killing monsters or solving puzzles; once your
accumulated XPs reach a certain threshold, you advance to a new
"character level" (also known as "leveling up"), which means that you
may add or improve skills again.
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Am 31.08.2011 16:50, schrieb Invisible:
> OK, I have to ask: How many times per week does this happen?
> http://xkcd.com/244/
> Does it ever get to more than 3 levels deep? Is it like Inception?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiTEHqAeanw&feature=related
Make sure to also see parts 2-5 of 5...
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On 30/08/2011 10:54 AM, Invisible wrote:
> I don't know how big the game actually is, but I spent about 7 hours
> playing it yesterday and I don't /think/ I'm anywhere near the end yet
> (though I can't really tell).
OK, so apparently Steam records how long you've been playing. And it
took me 12 hours to complete this game. I could actually have completed
it faster, but I actually bothered playing and replaying some of the
"challenges" over and over trying to get a good score.
It turns out, if you replay the same part of the game enough times, the
narrator *does* begin becoming repetitive after a while. During normal
gameplay, this never happens. It's almost like having a real human
there. Only if you grind the same part of the game again and again do
you start noticing it's a recording.
You know I said that Bastion has no jumping puzzles, and in fact you
can't actually jump? Well, the last 20 minutes of the game is nothing
*but* jumping puzzles! >_< Ever tried jumping at an angle of 60 degrees
when the only movement controls are arrow keys? Hint: it's tricky.
The final level is actually like 6 normal-sized levels. Complete with
transitions from one to the other. It's just that usually at the end of
one level, you return to the hub, rearrange your inventory a bit, and
then select the next level. In the final "level", you go through 6
levels one after the other without a break.
This final level also has some pretty steep difficulty. Quite apart from
the fact that the last 3 sublevels are basically endless jumping
puzzles, there's a hitherto unseen level of close combat involved. To
describe it as "challenging" would be an understatement.
The ending provides absolutely no sense of closure. You get given two
options at the end of the final level. Once you complete the level, you
get given two options back at the main hub. I picked an option, and I
saw a freeze-frame painting and heard some lines of dialogue. Then the
image faded to black, and the credits roll.
As best as I can tell, if I'd chosen the other way, exactly the same
thing would have happened. (I haven't scientifically verified this yet.)
I would probably have got a different painting, and a different set of
lines. I doubt I would have got any more closure.
In short, a disappointing (but not disastrous) ending to a really cool game.
Before you start the final level, it actually warns you that there's no
going back once you begin. Interestingly, after the credits finish
rolling, you can return to the hub. (And from the canned dialogue lines,
it appears that the game save is from just before the final level. In
particular, I levelled up during the final mission, but going back in,
I've done back down a level.)
I had assumed there was much more of the game remaining because I
haven't completed more than a fraction of the optional stuff. You can
earn money to upgrade weapons, and I never earned enough to upgrade more
than a fraction of my arsenal. (Not that there's much point; once you
have a really powerful weapon, why would you bother upgrading the weaker
ones?) And if you earn enough "XP", you gain a level. The only effect
this has is that you can activate more powerups at once. (Which you have
to return to the hub to do.) You can activate any powerup at any time,
it's just you can only use so many at once.
The highest possible level is level 10, and by the time I completed the
game I had only reached level 5. Similarly, most of my weapons had been
upgraded to level 2 or 3, out of a maximum of 7. There's still a
stackload of "vigils" I haven't got yet, and a bunch of items I
collected which I didn't have the cash to "repair" yet.
Still, I guess that's better than Assassin's Creed II. Initially I
couldn't afford anything, but by about half way through the game, I had
literally purchased every item that you can purchase. Even the useless
ones. (There's an "achievement" for purchasing everything. Obviously I
initially only purchased stuff worth having. But eventually I purchased
everything, all at once, just for something to spend my money on.)
I guess having unfinished stuff gives me a reason to keep playing the game.
For example, Bastion has several "challenges". Basically you wake up in
a room, and increasing numbers of enemies pop up out of the ground and
attack you. You earn "XP" for killing them, and if you survive a whole
wave you earn a crock-load of money. (It's unclear to me whether you get
to keep all this stuff, or only if you survive all the way to the end.)
You can also visit the shrine and activate "idols" to make the challenge
mode harder. It makes the enemies faster or more health or whatever, and
you get more XP when you kill them.
I found the easiest challenge, and then activated *all* the available
idols. At the same time. (Interestingly, I'm short of two idols. No idea
how you get those, given that I've searched every level...) I fired up
the easy challenge. I lasted 12 seconds. Literally. Damn!
I've yet to complete either of the other two main challenges. (Mainly
because I've yet to discover a way to kill Anklegators.) I've had a go
at all of the "proving grounds". (There's one for each weapon, and since
I've collected all the weapons, they're all open to me.) They range from
quite easy to laughably difficult. Difficulty isn't directly related to
how powerful the weapon is.
Completing the game also actives a "special new game option". I haven't
tried it, but apparently it lets you do things like start a new game
with level 10 skill, all weapons available, all upgrades unlocked, etc.
I quite like the way that for each weapon upgrade, you can choose
between two options. You can make reloads faster, or you can increase
clip capacity. You can increase damage or increase rate of fire. You can
increase accuracy or increase spread. Things like that. (My personal
favourite is the upgrades that make hits continue to deal damage for a
short period afterwards...)
The thing with the distillery is interesting. You have a selection of
"spirits" available, with names like "Stabsynthe", "Cinderbrick Stout",
"Bastion Bourbon" and so on. When activated, each one gives you some
advantage. (E.g., there's one that gives you +15% health. Another lets
you carry more potions with you. Another makes stray coins magnetically
attracted to you...) Each time you earn enough XP, the number of spirits
you can activate at the same time goes up by one.
They could have just had a menu with a tickbox for "add 15% health" and
so forth. But instead, they made it a "distillery", and they make you
collect the various spirits before you can use them, and so on. It's a
nice touch. (Although one that isn't /explained/ especially clearly.)
I wonder if there'll be a Bastion II? I'd buy it...
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On 30/08/2011 10:59 AM, Invisible wrote:
> Also... Is it just me, or does the music in that video sound
> suspiciously like it's a rehash of Seven Lives by Enigma?
Hmm.
> This music doesn't appear anywhere in the game, as best as I can tell.
Yeah, it does.
> The in-game music appears to be completely original - and rather good.
I still stand by that assessment.
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On 8/31/2011 12:05 PM, clipka wrote:
> In virtually all RPGs, you acquire "experience points" for accomplishing
> tasks, such as killing monsters or solving puzzles; once your
> accumulated XPs reach a certain threshold, you advance to a new
> "character level" (also known as "leveling up"), which means that you
> may add or improve skills again.
Mind, there are some exceptions. Eve Online, for example, doesn't have
XP, but it does have a sort of equivalent. As you add skills to the
training queue, those skills improve, a set number of points over time,
eventually giving you a "level" in that skill. Literally everything from
how well you mine ore, to which ships you can fly, and how accurate your
weapons are, effective your armor/shield, etc. may be, and so on, is
determined by which of these you spent time "studying".
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On 8/31/2011 7:50 AM, Invisible wrote:
> It would be nice if computer games could be a bit more open-ended like
> this. There are a number of reasons why they can't (in the foreseeable
> future):
>
> - The real world is far too expensive to simulate accurately. You have
> to simplify it down, which basically means removing lots of possibilities.
>
> - In the real world, you're generally fighting against other humans. AI
> still cannot even begin to approach that level of intelligence. (E.g.,
> if I *did* use chairs to block the door, the AI would be utterly
> baffled, and would never figure out a solution.)
>
> - In the real world, I can use anything I can lay my hands on. In a
> computer game, I've got, like, a dozen buttons and a mouse. Very hard to
> come up with a general control framework with such limited controls
> available.
>
> Those are the ones that immediately spring to mind, beyond "it would
> also totally screw up the story" (which is also intractably hard for a
> mere computer to sort out).
>
> I note that while it's completely 100% possible to play computer games
> with other humans, I tend to prefer playing them by myself. I guess
> because that way it's more like reading a book. Or maybe just because
> finding decent people to play with is so hard.
>
Well, an alternate to a "game" is an RP sim. Second Life has a number of
them. The one I am in, when work isn't screwing that up, is post a
apocalypse world, set "loosely" in the remains of LA. A coven of
vampires is nominally in control over some parts of the city, demons are
wandering around every place, angels have shown up, but can't quite work
out what is going on (the closest answer anyone can get out of them is
that the 'throne of heaven is currently vacant'), and every other sort
of thing that goes bump in the night has come out of the woodwork. The
major of those later groups being Lycan, Undead, Neko (cat people), and
cyborgs.
The skill system works a bit like Eve, in that the longer you are
"online and interacting" the more advanced your skills become (in this
sense XP is being used, but except for turning in recordings of things
you have done in the roleplay, and getting rewards for that, its mostly
just ticking along at a set rate). Once you "level", you can pick from a
number of skills for that level. Melee is possible, as is guns, but..
there are some issues with Second Life's servers which can lag the
later, so, when possible, the RP has tended to avoid a lot of combat.
Sane people also stay out of the main city, and in the outliers, due to
similar lag issues... Too many people in one sim, basically, but its
improving, slowly.
Basically, as a 'game' its pretty damn open, with the only rules being
to stay "in theme" with what is going on in CoLA. But, there are several
other similar systems around, and probably close to a thousand (or more)
sims running some sort of combat system, with roleplaying going on,
hundreds of them based on the same Community Combat System as CoLA has.
http://ccs-gametech.com/
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On 02/09/2011 12:21 AM, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> Basically, as a 'game' its pretty damn open, with the only rules being
> to stay "in theme" with what is going on in CoLA. But, there are several
> other similar systems around, and probably close to a thousand (or more)
> sims running some sort of combat system, with roleplaying going on,
> hundreds of them based on the same Community Combat System as CoLA has.
That sounds more or less like the FI2 syndrome: A game that's so "open"
that not only can you do anything, but that's even what you're
/supposed/ to do. In other words, there's no goal. You just make one up
and try to attain it. Which is incredibly unsatisfying. (Or maybe it's
just that FI2 was a really bad game, I don't know...)
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> This final level also has some pretty steep difficulty. Quite apart from
> the fact that the last 3 sublevels are basically endless jumping
> puzzles, there's a hitherto unseen level of close combat involved. To
> describe it as "challenging" would be an understatement.
I found the last level rather trivial, but that's because I had upgraded
the Calamity Cannon all the way.
> The highest possible level is level 10, and by the time I completed the
> game I had only reached level 5. Similarly, most of my weapons had been
> upgraded to level 2 or 3, out of a maximum of 7. There's still a
> stackload of "vigils" I haven't got yet, and a bunch of items I
> collected which I didn't have the cash to "repair" yet.
That's because...
> Completing the game also actives a "special new game option". I haven't
> tried it, but apparently it lets you do things like start a new game
> with level 10 skill, all weapons available, all upgrades unlocked, etc.
This option doesn't start you at level 10, it leaves you where you are
and lets you continue to level up and upgrade your weapons.
> I've yet to complete either of the other two main challenges. (Mainly
> because I've yet to discover a way to kill Anklegators.)
Run or roll over them to make them pop up, then turn around and do some
damage quickly.
> (Interestingly, I'm short of two idols. No idea
> how you get those, given that I've searched every level...)
I think they're in the shop.
- Slime
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On 03/09/2011 10:16 PM, Slime wrote:
> > This final level also has some pretty steep difficulty. Quite apart from
> > the fact that the last 3 sublevels are basically endless jumping
> > puzzles, there's a hitherto unseen level of close combat involved. To
> > describe it as "challenging" would be an understatement.
>
> I found the last level rather trivial, but that's because I had upgraded
> the Calamity Cannon all the way.
The Ura are fairly easy to kill. The problem is more that they tend to
surround you, and you can only shield yourself from one direction. I
ended up dying a lot.
Oh, and the jumping puzzles. Given that the controls only let you move
in multiples of 45° and I need to make 60° jumps, yeah, kinda hard.
(Although usually not fatal.)
> > Completing the game also actives a "special new game option". I haven't
> > tried it, but apparently it lets you do things like start a new game
> > with level 10 skill, all weapons available, all upgrades unlocked, etc.
>
>
> This option doesn't start you at level 10, it leaves you where you are
> and lets you continue to level up and upgrade your weapons.
Just hitting "continue" after the credits finish rolling does that.
I was mildly annoyed to discover that you can't start a new game without
discarding the old one. Still, I guess it makes the game design easier. :-P
> > I've yet to complete either of the other two main challenges. (Mainly
> > because I've yet to discover a way to kill Anklegators.)
>
>
> Run or roll over them to make them pop up, then turn around and do some
> damage quickly.
It's slightly tricky to get them to pop up yet miss me. However, what I
can't figure out at all is how to have them miss me, yet still be close
enough to injure them. The War Machete is great in that it continues to
deal damage after they go back underground. But you have to be *really*
close to use it.
The only thing I can think of is to use the Brusher's Pike. But then,
how to stay alive long enough to get to that part of the challenge?
> > (Interestingly, I'm short of two idols. No idea
> > how you get those, given that I've searched every level...)
>
>
> I think they're in the shop.
Some of them are. But I've cleaned out the shop now. Apparently I didn't
pick something up along the way or something...
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> The ending provides absolutely no sense of closure. You get given two
> options at the end of the final level. Once you complete the level, you
> get given two options back at the main hub. I picked an option, and I
> saw a freeze-frame painting and heard some lines of dialogue. Then the
> image faded to black, and the credits roll.
>
> As best as I can tell, if I'd chosen the other way, exactly the same
> thing would have happened. (I haven't scientifically verified this yet.)
> I would probably have got a different painting, and a different set of
> lines. I doubt I would have got any more closure.
>
> In short, a disappointing (but not disastrous) ending to a really cool
> game.
I tried this. Turns out both of the two choices you have to make right
at the end do have a small impact on the final end sequence. But given
that this sequence is just a slide-show anyway... not much sense of
achievement there.
Then again, it's such a great game to play in the first place...
> I had assumed there was much more of the game remaining because I
> haven't completed more than a fraction of the optional stuff.
> I guess having unfinished stuff gives me a reason to keep playing the game.
I have now upgraded almost everything to maximum. I've completed every
single one of the proving grounds - eventually - although I only got 1st
place on a few of them.
> I found the easiest challenge, and then activated *all* the available
> idols. At the same time. (Interestingly, I'm short of two idols. No idea
> how you get those, given that I've searched every level...) I fired up
> the easy challenge. I lasted 12 seconds. Literally. Damn!
> Completing the game also actives a "special new game option". I haven't
> tried it, but apparently it lets you do things like start a new game
> with level 10 skill, all weapons available, all upgrades unlocked, etc.
Apparently "special new game" lets you restart the game from the
beginning, but with all the weapons and XP you've already collected in
your current game. Needless to say, walking around the opening levels
with a level-7 calamity cannon and level-7 fire bellows means that any
enemy that wants to take you on is going to get their stuff messed up. >:-)
Also, I never did find those last two idols. But restarting with the
"special new game" option gives me the last two.
There's an achievement for completing each of the three dreams. There's
another for completing each dream with any 5 idols activated. I now have
all of those achievements. ;-)
There's also an achievement for completing a dream with all 10 idols
activated. Now that I've *got* all the idols, I can attempt that.
Unfortunately, one of the idols turns off health tonics, making the
dreams impossible to complete. So I can't obtain the last few
achievements. Even so, I've had a lot of fun playing Bastion, and
wringing every last drop of gameplay out of it.
> I wonder if there'll be a Bastion II? I'd buy it...
I still stand by that assessment. ;-)
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