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OK ... scrolling through the Icecast Directory and I see this
station/listing for "Classic Rap". Is there really such a thing, and if
the answer is yes, I think I'll just go ahead a shoot myself ;-)
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Jim Holsenback <nom### [at] nomail com> wrote:
> OK ... scrolling through the Icecast Directory and I see this
> station/listing for "Classic Rap". Is there really such a thing, and if
> the answer is yes, I think I'll just go ahead a shoot myself ;-)
this is the closer I can think of:
Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore--
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door--
"'Tis some visitor," I muttered, "tapping at my chamber door--
Only this and nothing more."
Ah, distinctly I remember it was in the bleak December;
And each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor.
Eagerly I wished the morrow;--vainly I had sought to borrow
From my books surcease of sorrow--sorrow for the lost Lenore--
For the rare and radiant maiden whom the angels name Lenore--
Nameless here for evermore.
And the silken, sad, uncertain rustling of each purple curtain
Thrilled me--filled me with fantastic terrors never felt before;
So that now, to still the beating of my heart, I stood repeating,
"'Tis some visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door--
Some late visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door;--
This it is and nothing more."
Presently my soul grew stronger; hesitating then no longer,
"Sir," said I, "or Madam, truly your forgiveness I implore;
But the fact is I was napping, and so gently you came rapping,
And so faintly you came tapping, tapping at my chamber door,
That I scarce was sure I heard you"--here I opened wide the door;----
Darkness there and nothing more.
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing,
Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before;
But the silence was unbroken, and the stillness gave no token,
And the only word there spoken was the whispered word, "Lenore?"
This I whispered, and an echo murmured back the word, "Lenore!"--
Merely this and nothing more.
Back into the chamber turning, all my soul within me burning,
Soon again I heard a tapping somewhat louder than before.
"Surely," said I, "surely that is something at my window lattice;
Let me see, then, what thereat is, and this mystery explore--
Let my heart be still a moment and this mystery explore;--
'Tis the wind and nothing more!"
Open here I flung the shutter, when, with many a flirt and flutter,
In there stepped a stately Raven of the saintly days of yore;
Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute stopped or stayed he;
But, with mien of lord or lady, perched above my chamber door--
Perched upon a bust of Pallas just above my chamber door--
Perched, and sat, and nothing more.
Then this ebony bird beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,
By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance it wore,
"Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou," I said, "art sure no craven,
Ghastly grim and ancient Raven wandering from the Nightly shore--
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!"
Quoth the Raven "Nevermore."
Much I marvelled this ungainly fowl to hear discourse so plainly,
Though its answer little meaning--little relevancy bore;
For we cannot help agreeing that no living human being
Ever yet was blest with seeing bird above his chamber door--
Bird or beast upon the sculptured bust above his chamber door,
With such name as "Nevermore."
But the Raven, sitting lonely on the placid bust, spoke only
That one word, as if his soul in that one word he did outpour.
Nothing further then he uttered--not a feather then he fluttered--
Till I scarcely more than muttered "Other friends have flown before--
On the morrow he will leave me, as my hopes have flown before."
Then the bird said "Nevermore."
Startled at the stillness broken by reply so aptly spoken,
"Doubtless," said I, "what it utters is its only stock and store
Caught from some unhappy master whom unmerciful Disaster
Followed fast and followed faster till his songs one burden bore--
Till the dirges of his Hope that melancholy burden bore
Of 'Never--nevermore.'"
But the Raven still beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,
Straight I wheeled a cushioned seat in front of bird, and bust and door;
Then, upon the velvet sinking, I betook myself to linking
Fancy unto fancy, thinking what this ominous bird of yore--
What this grim, ungainly, ghastly, gaunt and ominous bird of yore
Meant in croaking "Nevermore."
This I sat engaged in guessing, but no syllable expressing
To the fowl whose fiery eyes now burned into my bosom's core;
This and more I sat divining, with my head at ease reclining
On the cushion's velvet lining that the lamp-light gloated o'er,
But whose velvet violet lining with the lamp-light gloating o'er,
She shall press, ah, nevermore!
Then, methought, the air grew denser, perfumed from an unseen censer
Swung by Seraphim whose foot-falls tinkled on the tufted floor.
"Wretch," I cried, "thy God hath lent thee--by these angels he hath sent thee
Respite--respite and nepenthe, from thy memories of Lenore;
Quaff, oh quaff this kind nepenthe and forget this lost Lenore!"
Quoth the Raven "Nevermore."
"Prophet!" said I, "thing of evil!--prophet still, if bird or devil!--
Whether Tempter sent, or whether tempest tossed thee here ashore,
Desolate yet all undaunted, on this desert land enchanted--
On this home by Horror haunted--tell me truly, I implore--
Is there--is there balm in Gilead?--tell me--tell me, I implore!"
Quoth the Raven "Nevermore."
"Prophet!" said I, "thing of evil--prophet still, if bird or devil!
By that Heaven that bends above us--by that God we both adore--
Tell this soul with sorrow laden if, within the distant Aidenn,
It shall clasp a sainted maiden whom the angels name Lenore--
Clasp a rare and radiant maiden whom the angels name Lenore."
Quoth the Raven "Nevermore."
"Be that word our sign in parting, bird or fiend!" I shrieked, upstarting--
"Get thee back into the tempest and the Night's Plutonian shore!
Leave no black plume as a token of that lie thy soul hath spoken!
Leave my loneliness unbroken!--quit the bust above my door!
Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door!"
Quoth the Raven "Nevermore."
And the Raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming,
And the lamp-light o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
Shall be lifted--nevermore!
-- The Raven - Edgar Allan Poe
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On 7/6/2011 13:03, nemesis wrote:
> this is the closer I can think of:
That's not rap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSQz_LQ6Kak
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Coding without comments is like
driving without turn signals."
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Jim Holsenback <nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> OK ... scrolling through the Icecast Directory and I see this
> station/listing for "Classic Rap". Is there really such a thing, and if
> the answer is yes, I think I'll just go ahead a shoot myself ;-)
Rap in the 80's was quite different from what it was in the late 90's
and is today. (Much more embarrassing, if you ask me.)
--
- Warp
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On 07/06/2011 05:03 PM, nemesis wrote:
> Jim Holsenback<nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
>> OK ... scrolling through the Icecast Directory and I see this
>> station/listing for "Classic Rap". Is there really such a thing, and if
>> the answer is yes, I think I'll just go ahead a shoot myself ;-)
>
> this is the closer I can think of:
<snip>
> -- The Raven - Edgar Allan Poe
less of a stretch calling this "Classic Rap" than the reference that I
was talking about
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On 07/06/2011 05:31 PM, Warp wrote:
> Jim Holsenback<nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
>> OK ... scrolling through the Icecast Directory and I see this
>> station/listing for "Classic Rap". Is there really such a thing, and if
>> the answer is yes, I think I'll just go ahead a shoot myself ;-)
>
> Rap in the 80's was quite different from what it was in the late 90's
> and is today. (Much more embarrassing, if you ask me.)
>
LOL, so I guess you're OK with calling something only 30/40 years
"Classic". I guess then by that scale, Bob Dylan would be what ...
antique ;-)
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> LOL, so I guess you're OK with calling something only 30/40 years
> "Classic". I guess then by that scale, Bob Dylan would be what ...
> antique ;-)
Seen any classic computers recently? ;-)
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Jim Holsenback <nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> OK ... scrolling through the Icecast Directory and I see this
> station/listing for "Classic Rap". Is there really such a thing, and if
> the answer is yes, I think I'll just go ahead a shoot myself ;-)
I, too, am often annoyed with the inappropriate over-usage of the term
"Classic". "Classic Coke" was the one that really got to me.
Although the rap genre has never been a personal favorite of mine, the form did
have, in its origins, a certain type of authenticity. It was genuinely "music
from the streets" wherein people who didn't have access to music studios or
expensive instruments gave expression to what they were actually experiencing
and feeling. It is understandable to me that someone might want to
differentiate between this older form and the stuff the music industry
conglomerates have been manufacturing and marketing ever since rap developed a
large popular following. Still, I think a more appropriate adjective than
"Classic" could be found.
Best Regards,
Mike C.
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On 7/7/2011 3:27, Jim Holsenback wrote:
> LOL, so I guess you're OK with calling something only 30/40 years "Classic".
Classic and Classical are two different words. 40-year-old cars are "classic".
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Coding without comments is like
driving without turn signals."
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Jim Holsenback <nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> LOL, so I guess you're OK with calling something only 30/40 years
> "Classic". I guess then by that scale, Bob Dylan would be what ...
> antique ;-)
It depends on the lifespan of the genre. "Classic" or "classical" usually
refers to the beginnings, when the genre was still new and finding its
shape.
Theatre has existed for thousands of years, hence you wouldn't call
1950's theatre "classical", but instead classical theatre would be something
from 2000 years ago.
In contrast, rock&roll has existed for less than 100 years, so "classical
rock&roll" would be something like from the 1950's and before.
Rap began in the 70's and 80's, and hence the classical period of rap
would be from those times.
--
- Warp
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On 07/07/2011 11:16 AM, Mike the Elder wrote:
> Jim Holsenback<nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
>> OK ... scrolling through the Icecast Directory and I see this
>> station/listing for "Classic Rap". Is there really such a thing, and if
>> the answer is yes, I think I'll just go ahead a shoot myself ;-)
>
> I, too, am often annoyed with the inappropriate over-usage of the term
> "Classic". "Classic Coke" was the one that really got to me.
Thanks Mike ... this is the point I was trying to make.
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On 07/07/2011 01:46 PM, Warp wrote:
> Jim Holsenback<nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
>> LOL, so I guess you're OK with calling something only 30/40 years
>> "Classic". I guess then by that scale, Bob Dylan would be what ...
>> antique ;-)
>
> It depends on the lifespan of the genre. "Classic" or "classical" usually
> refers to the beginnings, when the genre was still new and finding its
> shape.
>
> Theatre has existed for thousands of years, hence you wouldn't call
> 1950's theatre "classical", but instead classical theatre would be something
> from 2000 years ago.
>
> In contrast, rock&roll has existed for less than 100 years, so "classical
> rock&roll" would be something like from the 1950's and before.
>
> Rap began in the 70's and 80's, and hence the classical period of rap
> would be from those times.
>
Now here's some cira 1965 rap for ya ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_ujAXxNxU0
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On 7/7/2011 9:46 AM, Warp wrote:
> Jim Holsenback<nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
>> LOL, so I guess you're OK with calling something only 30/40 years
>> "Classic". I guess then by that scale, Bob Dylan would be what ...
>> antique ;-)
>
> It depends on the lifespan of the genre. "Classic" or "classical" usually
> refers to the beginnings, when the genre was still new and finding its
> shape.
>
> Theatre has existed for thousands of years, hence you wouldn't call
> 1950's theatre "classical", but instead classical theatre would be something
> from 2000 years ago.
>
> In contrast, rock&roll has existed for less than 100 years, so "classical
> rock&roll" would be something like from the 1950's and before.
>
> Rap began in the 70's and 80's, and hence the classical period of rap
> would be from those times.
>
I've occasionally heard "classic" used this way, but never "classical",
and frankly it sounds pretty wrong to my ears. I'd always taken
"classical" in this context (that is, the context of art) to refer to
one of the following:
1) Art work from antiquity (particularly ancient Greece and Rome)
2) Art inspired by antiquity
3) Art marked by a simplicity of form and/or a restraint of emotion
4) A generic term for "serious" art
5) The two definitions which pertain the the genre of music (related to
some of the above)
Am I missing something and it's actually in common usage to use
"classical" to refer simply to the origins of a genre? It seems a waste
to generalize a perfectly useful word like that when there's others that
are better suited anyway.
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Jim Holsenback <nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> Now here's some cira 1965 rap for ya ;-)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_ujAXxNxU0
I like this one more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nej4xJe4Tdg
--
- Warp
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On 07/07/2011 05:46 PM, Warp wrote:
> Jim Holsenback<nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
>> LOL, so I guess you're OK with calling something only 30/40 years
>> "Classic". I guess then by that scale, Bob Dylan would be what ...
>> antique ;-)
>
> It depends on the lifespan of the genre. "Classic" or "classical" usually
> refers to the beginnings, when the genre was still new and finding its
> shape.
>
> Theatre has existed for thousands of years, hence you wouldn't call
> 1950's theatre "classical", but instead classical theatre would be something
> from 2000 years ago.
>
> In contrast, rock&roll has existed for less than 100 years, so "classical
> rock&roll" would be something like from the 1950's and before.
>
> Rap began in the 70's and 80's, and hence the classical period of rap
> would be from those times.
Performance using musical instruments dates back at least a millennium,
and possibly into prehistory. And yet, "classical music" is generally
taken to extend from 1750 AD to 1830 AD. Right after the baroque period
and just before the romance period.
BTW, I'm still waiting on who exactly decided that this was to be the
case...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Kevin Wampler <wam### [at] uwashingtonedu> wrote:
> On 7/7/2011 9:46 AM, Warp wrote:
> > Jim Holsenback<nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> >> LOL, so I guess you're OK with calling something only 30/40 years
> >> "Classic". I guess then by that scale, Bob Dylan would be what ...
> >> antique ;-)
> >
> > It depends on the lifespan of the genre. "Classic" or "classical" usually
> > refers to the beginnings, when the genre was still new and finding its
> > shape.
> >
> > Theatre has existed for thousands of years, hence you wouldn't call
> > 1950's theatre "classical", but instead classical theatre would be something
> > from 2000 years ago.
> >
> > In contrast, rock&roll has existed for less than 100 years, so "classical
> > rock&roll" would be something like from the 1950's and before.
> >
> > Rap began in the 70's and 80's, and hence the classical period of rap
> > would be from those times.
> >
>
> I've occasionally heard "classic" used this way, but never "classical",
> and frankly it sounds pretty wrong to my ears. I'd always taken
> "classical" in this context (that is, the context of art) to refer to
> one of the following:
>
> 1) Art work from antiquity (particularly ancient Greece and Rome)
> 2) Art inspired by antiquity
> 3) Art marked by a simplicity of form and/or a restraint of emotion
> 4) A generic term for "serious" art
> 5) The two definitions which pertain the the genre of music (related to
> some of the above)
>
> Am I missing something and it's actually in common usage to use
> "classical" to refer simply to the origins of a genre? It seems a waste
> to generalize a perfectly useful word like that when there's others that
> are better suited anyway.
Classical refers to a particular time period. Classic means it's worthy enough
to be talked about in studying classes.
I don't think there'll ever be classic rap... :p
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On 07/07/2011 03:16 PM, Mike the Elder wrote:
> I, too, am often annoyed with the inappropriate over-usage of the term
> "Classic". "Classic Coke" was the one that really got to me.
In computing, "classic" is occasionally used to mean the same thing as
"legacy". (AKA "the old crap we still have to support".)
For example, "in classic RISC designs, it worked like <X>, but in our
new, modern design, it works like <Y>".
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On 07/07/2011 07:49 PM, nemesis wrote:
> Classical refers to a particular time period. Classic means it's worthy enough
> to be talked about in studying classes.
>
> I don't think there'll ever be classic rap... :p
This.
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On 7/7/2011 9:46, Warp wrote:
> It depends on the lifespan of the genre.
That's actually a pretty good analysis.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Coding without comments is like
driving without turn signals."
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On 7/7/2011 10:43, Warp wrote:
> Jim Holsenback<nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
>> Now here's some cira 1965 rap for ya ;-)
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_ujAXxNxU0
>
> I like this one more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nej4xJe4Tdg
I don't think either of those are rap. They have music.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Coding without comments is like
driving without turn signals."
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On 07/07/2011 05:00 PM, Darren New wrote:
> On 7/7/2011 10:43, Warp wrote:
>> Jim Holsenback<nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
>>> Now here's some cira 1965 rap for ya ;-)
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_ujAXxNxU0
>>
>> I like this one more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nej4xJe4Tdg
>
> I don't think either of those are rap. They have music.
>
rap and music aren't mutually exclusive terms (although some would
debate that)
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> I don't think either of those are rap. They have music.
Lots of rap has music. Ever heard eg. Eminem? (Try "Stan" and "Lose
Yourself" for starters.)
--
- Warp
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On 7/7/2011 14:25, Warp wrote:
> Lots of rap has music. Ever heard eg. Eminem? (Try "Stan"
There's music in the background. He's not singing.
Indeed, I'm pretty sure that the simplistic difference between "rap" and
"hip hop" is whether the artist sings the words.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Coding without comments is like
driving without turn signals."
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> On 7/7/2011 14:25, Warp wrote:
> > Lots of rap has music. Ever heard eg. Eminem? (Try "Stan"
> There's music in the background. He's not singing.
So your definition of "music" is that it must include singing?
That's an odd definition.
--
- Warp
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On 7/8/2011 0:11, Warp wrote:
> Darren New<dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> On 7/7/2011 14:25, Warp wrote:
>>> Lots of rap has music. Ever heard eg. Eminem? (Try "Stan"
>
>> There's music in the background. He's not singing.
>
> So your definition of "music" is that it must include singing?
No. My definition of rap is that the vocals are spoken instead of sung.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Coding without comments is like
driving without turn signals."
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> On 7/8/2011 0:11, Warp wrote:
> > Darren New<dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> >> On 7/7/2011 14:25, Warp wrote:
> >>> Lots of rap has music. Ever heard eg. Eminem? (Try "Stan"
> >
> >> There's music in the background. He's not singing.
> >
> > So your definition of "music" is that it must include singing?
> No. My definition of rap is that the vocals are spoken instead of sung.
The original claim was that they are not rap because they have music.
--
- Warp
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