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Random fact of the day: According to Wiktionary, "dice" is supposedly
the plural of "die".
Let me tell you, I have been alive for over 3 decades, and I have
*never* heard anybody call it that.
At best, I have seen one math textbook which asserts that
"mathematicians use the word 'die' as a shorthand for 'dice'". The book
then proceeded to use the words "die" and "dies" whenever it meant
"dice". Even if Wiktionary is correct, this textbook seems to be
flat-out wrong.
The *only* actual usage of "die" meaning "dice" that I can find is in
the subject line - the obscure phrase "the die is cast". I've never
heard any other reference to "die" meaning "dice".
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Invisible <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
> Random fact of the day: According to Wiktionary, "dice" is supposedly
> the plural of "die".
>
> Let me tell you, I have been alive for over 3 decades, and I have
> *never* heard anybody call it that.
>
> At best, I have seen one math textbook which asserts that
> "mathematicians use the word 'die' as a shorthand for 'dice'". The book
> then proceeded to use the words "die" and "dies" whenever it meant
> "dice". Even if Wiktionary is correct, this textbook seems to be
> flat-out wrong.
>
> The *only* actual usage of "die" meaning "dice" that I can find is in
> the subject line - the obscure phrase "the die is cast". I've never
> heard any other reference to "die" meaning "dice".
From the Oxford Endglish Dictionary Online:
dice - noun (plural same)
1 a small cube with each side having a different number of spots on it,
ranging from one to six, thrown and used in gambling and other games
involving chance. See also die
[mass noun] a game played with dice.
2 small cubes of food:cut the meat into dice
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
die(2) - noun
1 singular form of dice
2 (plural dies)a device for cutting or moulding metal into a particular
shape an engraved device for stamping a design on coins or medals.
3 Architecture - the cubical part of a pedestal between the base
and the cornice; a dado or plinth.
=======================================================================
It turns out I've gone through most of life getting it wrong as well,
albeit wrong differently. It my particular experience, the phrase
"The die is cast" was fairly common rather than obscure, so I just
went on believing that "die" was the correct singular form and that
using "dice" as the singular was an error. Apparently, this is not so.
It also seems that "dies" can be a correct plural form of "die", but
NOT when referring to dotted gambling cubes. It is, instead, the plural
form of metal stamping and moulding devices. It is probably correct
for architectural elements as well, but the short online entry doesn't
specify. (I'm at work and my "OE Unabridged" is at home.)
Oh well, live and learn. (Both of which beat the alternatives.)
Best regards,
Mike C.
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Am 06.07.2011 10:19, schrieb Invisible:
> Random fact of the day: According to Wiktionary, "dice" is supposedly
> the plural of "die".
>
> Let me tell you, I have been alive for over 3 decades, and I have
> *never* heard anybody call it that.
As far as I've seen, in the world of roleplay gaming "die" is the common
singular of the manual integer random number generator (be it a cuboid
or otherwise)
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clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Am 06.07.2011 10:19, schrieb Invisible:
> > Random fact of the day: According to Wiktionary, "dice" is supposedly
> > the plural of "die".
> >
> > Let me tell you, I have been alive for over 3 decades, and I have
> > *never* heard anybody call it that.
>
> As far as I've seen, in the world of roleplay gaming "die" is the common
> singular of the manual integer random number generator (be it a cuboid
> or otherwise)
True enough. Personally, I favor banning ten and thirty sided dice as they
spoil the aesthetics of what is otherwise an elegant collection of Platonic
solids ;-)
(Actually when I GM, I hardly ever use anything accept an ordered set of three
twenty sided dice, the values of which I read against a graph that applies the
appropriate probability distribution. Further, players NEVER touch dice. It’s
my way of trying to get them to focus on what the character is doing and
experiencing rather than the extremely irritating: “What do I need to roll?”)
Best Regards from a fellow RPGer,
Mike C.
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Random fact of the day: According to Wiktionary, "dice" is supposedly
> the plural of "die".
> Let me tell you, I have been alive for over 3 decades, and I have
> *never* heard anybody call it that.
You are a native English speaker and never have heard that? Even I have
known that probably for over a decade, and I'm certainly not a native
speaker.
> The *only* actual usage of "die" meaning "dice" that I can find is in
> the subject line - the obscure phrase "the die is cast". I've never
> heard any other reference to "die" meaning "dice".
It's common terminology in many games involving dice.
--
- Warp
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Mike the Elder <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> True enough. Personally, I favor banning ten and thirty sided dice as they
> spoil the aesthetics of what is otherwise an elegant collection of Platonic
> solids ;-)
A pair of d10's is handy if you need a d100. Most definitely handier than
a true d100, which is just impractical and horrendous.
d100's are extremely common in CoC.
As a bonus, a d10 makes an excellent spintop (which drives the GM crazy,
haha!)
--
- Warp
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Invisible escreveu:
> Random fact of the day: According to Wiktionary, "dice" is supposedly
> the plural of "die".
>
> Let me tell you, I have been alive for over 3 decades, and I have
> *never* heard anybody call it that.
fixed fact of the day: your ignorance still astounds me.
Have you read already that list of poems I carefully collected in the
Crab Canon thread? Besides all the soul petting, should also do wonders
on increasing your limited tech vernacular...
--
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9
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Le 2011/07/06 10:07, Mike the Elder a écrit :
> clipka<ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>> Am 06.07.2011 10:19, schrieb Invisible:
>>> Random fact of the day: According to Wiktionary, "dice" is supposedly
>>> the plural of "die".
>>>
>>> Let me tell you, I have been alive for over 3 decades, and I have
>>> *never* heard anybody call it that.
>>
>> As far as I've seen, in the world of roleplay gaming "die" is the common
>> singular of the manual integer random number generator (be it a cuboid
>> or otherwise)
>
> True enough. Personally, I favor banning ten and thirty sided dice as they
> spoil the aesthetics of what is otherwise an elegant collection of Platonic
> solids ;-)
>
> (Actually when I GM, I hardly ever use anything accept an ordered set of three
> twenty sided dice, the values of which I read against a graph that applies the
> appropriate probability distribution. Further, players NEVER touch dice. It’s
> my way of trying to get them to focus on what the character is doing and
> experiencing rather than the extremely irritating: “What do I need to roll?”)
>
> Best Regards from a fellow RPGer,
> Mike C.
>
>
>
Have you tryed the Amber game? It's dieless...
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>> Let me tell you, I have been alive for over 3 decades, and I have
>> *never* heard anybody call it that.
>
> You are a native English speaker and never have heard that? Even I have
> known that probably for over a decade, and I'm certainly not a native
> speaker.
I'm wondering if this is because non-native speakers learn what words
are supposed to mean according to the dictionary, not according to how
"most people" actually use the words. Just a theory of course...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On 06/07/2011 04:47 PM, nemesis wrote:
> fixed fact of the day: your ignorance still astounds me.
I strive to impress. [Although obviously not in this way...]
> Have you read already that list of poems I carefully collected in the
> Crab Canon thread? Besides all the soul petting, should also do wonders
> on increasing your limited tech vernacular...
You know, I do interact with *other people*. I've spoken to a couple of
them, and they were completely unaware of what a "die" is either. :-P
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 escreveu:
>>> Let me tell you, I have been alive for over 3 decades, and I have
>>> *never* heard anybody call it that.
>>
>> You are a native English speaker and never have heard that? Even I
>> have
>> known that probably for over a decade, and I'm certainly not a native
>> speaker.
>
> I'm wondering if this is because non-native speakers learn what words
> are supposed to mean according to the dictionary, not according to how
> "most people" actually use the words. Just a theory of course...
Methinks thou may hath a point in there.
in my case, I learned that in particular from the PSX game Devil Dice... :)
--
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9
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Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> You know, I do interact with *other people*. I've spoken to a couple of
> them, and they were completely unaware of what a "die" is either. :-P
Isn't it something you use to colorize fabric?
--
- Warp
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Le 2011-07-06 04:19, Invisible a écrit :
> Random fact of the day: According to Wiktionary, "dice" is supposedly
> the plural of "die".
>
> Let me tell you, I have been alive for over 3 decades, and I have
> *never* heard anybody call it that.
>
> At best, I have seen one math textbook which asserts that
> "mathematicians use the word 'die' as a shorthand for 'dice'". The book
> then proceeded to use the words "die" and "dies" whenever it meant
> "dice". Even if Wiktionary is correct, this textbook seems to be
> flat-out wrong.
>
> The *only* actual usage of "die" meaning "dice" that I can find is in
> the subject line - the obscure phrase "the die is cast". I've never
> heard any other reference to "die" meaning "dice".
IIRC, my old AD&D books spent some time talking about it. but that was
back in '82...
--
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/* flabreque */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/* @ */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/* gmail.com */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }
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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> > You know, I do interact with *other people*. I've spoken to a couple of
> > them, and they were completely unaware of what a "die" is either. :-P
>
> Isn't it something you use to colorize fabric?
that's a dye.
should we let this discussion die?
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On 7/6/2011 4:24 AM, Mike the Elder wrote:
>
> die(2) - noun
>
> 1 singular form of dice
>
> 2 (plural dies)a device for cutting or moulding metal into a particular
> shape an engraved device for stamping a design on coins or medals.
>
> 3 Architecture - the cubical part of a pedestal between the base
> and the cornice; a dado or plinth.
>
Of course, there is another complication. You can "cast" a "die", with
the intent of molding metal into a shape. The result becomes a "fixed"
form, which doesn't later change. The result is the same as rolling a
die, and being unable to change the number once it comes to a stop (in
principle). One tends to suspect that one or the other definition arose
as an analog to the other, so as to express the condition, either of a
bet, once played, or a mold, once formed and fixed.
In either case, #1 and #2 are interchangeable, within the context of the
phrase being used.
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On 7/6/2011 2:00 PM, nemesis wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 escreveu:
>>
>> I'm wondering if this is because non-native speakers learn what words
>> are supposed to mean according to the dictionary, not according to how
>> "most people" actually use the words. Just a theory of course...
>
> Methinks thou may hath a point in there.
Sort of like Nepommuck's comment on Eliza's pronunciation in Pygmalion I
guess. Nevertheless, I'm pretty sure that in almost all the
conversations I've had "die" has been correctly used as the singular
form of "dice", and I'm not sure I've ever heard "dice" used as a
singular noun (I'm a native English speaker). Maybe it's a
British/American thing?
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> I'm wondering if this is because non-native speakers learn what words
> are supposed to mean according to the dictionary, not according to how
> "most people" actually use the words. Just a theory of course...
I'm a native english speaker (American, in case there's a cultural
difference here) and I've known this since I was a kid. I was actually
quite baffled by your post; I thought you had never heard the word
"dice" before, since it didn't even occur to me that you couldn't have
heard "die" before.
If you're playing a game with one die, this is the word you use. "Roll
the die."
- Slime
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On 7/6/2011 19:33, Slime wrote:
> I'm a native english speaker
Ibid.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Coding without comments is like
driving without turn signals."
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>
> Ibid.
>
I am not with the understanding of which you say.
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Slime <pov### [at] slimelandcom> wrote:
> If you're playing a game with one die, this is the word you use. "Roll
> the die."
Maybe it's a British quirk. For example this Briton clearly says "roll
the dice" even though there's only one die:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Lx_g47kKs
--
- Warp
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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> Slime <pov### [at] slimelandcom> wrote:
> > If you're playing a game with one die, this is the word you use. "Roll
> > the die."
>
> Maybe it's a British quirk. For example this Briton clearly says "roll
> the dice" even though there's only one die:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Lx_g47kKs
Could be. I think I'd say that too, albeit in the slightly guilty knowledge that
I'm saying it wrong. But then if nobody else said it first, I'd probably plump
for 'die'.
I'm going to correct everyone I know now :)
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On 07/07/2011 7:34 AM, Warp wrote:
> Slime<pov### [at] slimelandcom> wrote:
>> If you're playing a game with one die, this is the word you use. "Roll
>> the die."
>
> Maybe it's a British quirk. For example this Briton clearly says "roll
> the dice" even though there's only one die:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Lx_g47kKs
>
You are probably right. Although I know “dice” is plural I would use it
as singular as well. I would also say taps and dies.
On a related point, in the north of England some people will still say
thou as the singular form of you and in the west of Scotland, youse for
the plural of you.
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 07/07/2011 8:39 AM, Bill Pragnell wrote:
> Warp<war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>> Slime<pov### [at] slimelandcom> wrote:
>>> If you're playing a game with one die, this is the word you use. "Roll
>>> the die."
>>
>> Maybe it's a British quirk. For example this Briton clearly says "roll
>> the dice" even though there's only one die:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Lx_g47kKs
>
> Could be. I think I'd say that too, albeit in the slightly guilty knowledge that
> I'm saying it wrong. But then if nobody else said it first, I'd probably plump
> for 'die'.
>
> I'm going to correct everyone I know now :)
>
>
Would you say that the circumference of a circle is two pice are? ;-)
--
Regards
Stephen
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Bill Pragnell <bil### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> Could be. I think I'd say that too, albeit in the slightly guilty knowledge that
> I'm saying it wrong.
Maybe "roll the dice" is an expression that's independent of how many
physical dice there actually are. A bit like the expression "coin toss"
in certain situations where there isn't actually a physical coin being
tossed.
If that's the case, then "roll the dice" isn't actually incorrect (when
there's only one die), just a colloquialism.
--
- Warp
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On 07/07/2011 03:33 AM, Slime wrote:
> If you're playing a game with one die, this is the word you use. "Roll
> the die."
Apparently every board game we've ever known has this misprint in the
instructions them. They all say "roll the dice", regardless of the
actual number of dice in the box.
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Alain <aze### [at] qwertyorg> wrote:
> Have you tryed the Amber game? It's dieless...
The GM that introduced me to the Amber game was absolutely THE worst I have ever
encountered in many decades of gaming by several orders of magnitude. I
understand, and can even enjoy, the concept of recreational (pretend) paranoia
and intrigue. This game, however, was pretty much nothing but genuine
player-on-player petty confrontation and backstabbing, with the GM routinely
rewarding the most ruthless and instantly killing off any character who showed
the tiniest hint of scruples of any kind.
I should probably make an effort to look past the prejudice created by this
experience and give the game another shot.
Best Regards,
Mike C.
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On 7/6/2011 23:16, Slime wrote:
>>
>> Ibid.
>>
>
> I am not with the understanding of which you say.
http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aibid&btnG=Search
It's the bibliographic equivalent of "ditto".
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Coding without comments is like
driving without turn signals."
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On 7/6/2011 23:34, Warp wrote:
> Maybe it's a British quirk. For example this Briton clearly says "roll
> the dice" even though there's only one die:
Well, there's two dice in the shot, so maybe it's just confusion. As an
aside, that looks like a pretty fun game.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Coding without comments is like
driving without turn signals."
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I have been watching this discussion but there is not much to add from
my side. Other than that I know both die and dice as words and that I
always though dice was the plural.
Totally irrelevant to this english discussion, but it did remind me of
the standard translation for 'alea iacta est' in Dutch. Which is: 'de
teerling is geworpen'. Where 'teerling' is the Dutch word for a die.
Only it isn't, sort of. The Dutch word for die is 'dobbelsteen' I have
never heard anybody use the word 'teerling' except in this context.
There is no way you can understand 'teerling' from other words. It was
some time after I learned this Dutch expression that I finally gave up
trying to understand it myself and looked it up in a dictionary. I don't
think I was the only one. What is the point of using an unknown, archaic
word in an expression if there is a perfectly normal word for it?
Now playing: Rush, roll the bones.
--
Apparently you can afford your own dictator for less than 10 cents per
citizen per day.
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andrel <byt### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Totally irrelevant to this english discussion, but it did remind me of
> the standard translation for 'alea iacta est' in Dutch. Which is: 'de
> teerling is geworpen'. Where 'teerling' is the Dutch word for a die.
> Only it isn't, sort of. The Dutch word for die is 'dobbelsteen' I have
> never heard anybody use the word 'teerling' except in this context.
> There is no way you can understand 'teerling' from other words. It was
> some time after I learned this Dutch expression that I finally gave up
> trying to understand it myself and looked it up in a dictionary. I don't
> think I was the only one. What is the point of using an unknown, archaic
> word in an expression if there is a perfectly normal word for it?
The translation to Finnish is "arpa on heitetty". The interesting
thing about this is that "arpa" does not refer specifically to a die,
but to any instrument or method of randomly making a selection. The
accurate translation of "arpa" to English is "lot" (with the meaning of
"one of a set of objects, as straws or pebbles, drawn or thrown from a
container to decide a question or choice by chance.") It has most of the
same derivatives too; for example, "arpapeli" (literally "lot game") means
"lottery" (with the meaning of any game where prices are awarded purely
at random, by drawing lots.)
"Die" in modern Finnish is "noppa", although the derivative "arpakuutio"
(literally "lot cube"), while slightly more archaic, is still valid.
An interesting question is what the original latin word "alea" means,
and whether "die" or "lot" would be more accurate of a translation.
--
- Warp
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Le 2011/07/07 10:35, Mike the Elder a écrit :
> Alain<aze### [at] qwertyorg> wrote:
>> Have you tryed the Amber game? It's dieless...
>
>
>
> The GM that introduced me to the Amber game was absolutely THE worst I have ever
> encountered in many decades of gaming by several orders of magnitude. I
> understand, and can even enjoy, the concept of recreational (pretend) paranoia
> and intrigue. This game, however, was pretty much nothing but genuine
> player-on-player petty confrontation and backstabbing, with the GM routinely
> rewarding the most ruthless and instantly killing off any character who showed
> the tiniest hint of scruples of any kind.
>
> I should probably make an effort to look past the prejudice created by this
> experience and give the game another shot.
>
> Best Regards,
> Mike C.
>
>
So, that GM was about killing any character who had some good stuff, and
played his part as he should!? Normaly, having good stuff MEANS that you
are SUPOSED to be at least somewhat scrupulous...
I agree, that was a horible GM.
Alain
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