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29 Jul 2024 18:21:44 EDT (-0400)
  Sci-Fi meets Sci-Fact (Message 1 to 3 of 3)  
From: Jim Holsenback
Subject: Sci-Fi meets Sci-Fact
Date: 24 May 2011 07:29:27
Message: <4ddb9697$1@news.povray.org>
http://itee.uq.edu.au/~ruth/Lingodroids.htm

Noticed a BBC news article that led me to the above link ... wonder why 
after reading I couldn't help but think, shades of "Terminator" and "Skynet"


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi meets Sci-Fact
Date: 24 May 2011 09:58:24
Message: <4ddbb980$1@news.povray.org>
On 24/05/2011 12:29, Jim Holsenback wrote:
> http://itee.uq.edu.au/~ruth/Lingodroids.htm
>
> Noticed a BBC news article that led me to the above link ... wonder why
> after reading I couldn't help but think, shades of "Terminator" and
> "Skynet"

Well, they have laser range-finders. So long as they don't have an 
Aperture Science Hand-Held Dual-Portal Device, we should be OK.

If you haven't, go read the paper referenced at the bottom. It's very 
readable.

Oh yeah, SLAM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simultaneous_localization_and_mapping

It's a bit non-obvious.

Although these robots don't "do" much, the theory behind it is quite 
interesting. It's easy enough for one robot to explore and remember 
where it's been, but how do you make it talk to another robot, who might 
not even have visited some of these places?

The idea is that the robots wander around, learning about their 
surroundings. In the where-are-we game, one robot asks the other "where 
are we?" If the robot has a name for the place where they are, it says 
that. If it doesn't, it invents a new name (and remembers it). The first 
robot remembers the answer. Repeat this a few times from different 
locations, and gradually both robots come to call the same places by the 
same names, and to mutually decide where one named area ends and another 
begins.

Then use the go-to game to test whether it worked. One robot picks a 
place name at random, says it to the other robot, and then they both 
drive there. Given the size of the office, if both robots drove to a 
random place, they would be within range of each other 9.2% of the time. 
But when they actually played the go-to game, the robots came to the 
same place 38% of the time. Which isn't bad, but isn't 100%. (Apparently 
part of the problem was navigating around physical obstacles - including 
the other robot.)

They also did similar things for inventing names for distances and 
angles. Then one robot can say stuff like "if I start at X, facing Y, 
and travel Z, where would I end up?" An interesting thing about this is 
that one robot can ask the other about places which are impossible to 
get to. (E.g., if I start in that corner and travel 3 meters through 
that brick wall, what's the name of the place where I'd be? Well, the 
robots can invent a name for it, but they can't actually *go* there.)

One of the fundamental things about language is that you can use it to 
obtain information about things that you yourself have never 
experienced. It's kind of abstract, but really useful.

I find myself pondering several interesting questions about this 
research. For example, they configured the robots to assign names to 
areas roughly 3m across. But real people don't assign meanings to areas 
of a particular /size/, but rather a particular /significance/. The 
individual streets of a densely-populated city all have individual 
unique names, but entire tracts of uninhabited forest or farmland have 
no designated names at all.

For that matter, I've noticed that the apparent distance between two 
places is somewhat unrelated to the actual geometric distance, and far 
more related to /how interesting/ the route is. A route with lots of 
memorable landmarks "seems longer" then a similar route that's fairly 
featureless.

Also, place names are rarely unique. (Actually, forget "place"... 
/names/ aren't very unique.) There just aren't that many combinations of 
letters [which are utterable]. Instead, place names at least tend to be 
hierachical. If I say "Church Street", you have no hope in hell of 
figuring out where the **** that is. But if I say "Church Street, 
Wolverton", there's some danger of you finding that.

I think a more interesting experiment might me to get multiple robots 
(not just two) to cooperate in some goal-oriented task (rather than just 
exchanging words for the fun of it). Say, put them in a maze, and 
scatter coins around, and get them to work together to collect all the 
coins. Have one robot say to another "if you go /that/ way, there's 
loads of coins over there"...


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From: Jim Holsenback
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi meets Sci-Fact
Date: 24 May 2011 20:10:59
Message: <4ddc4913$1@news.povray.org>
On 05/24/2011 10:58 AM, Invisible wrote:
> Oh yeah, SLAM:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simultaneous_localization_and_mapping

lol ... cool acronym. Thanks for putting that link up. There was also a 
few references at the bottom of the article that looked like they just 
might be an interesting read as well ... the juxtaposition of a robot 
navigating by using maths, then inventing a word to describe that point 
is kind of cool, but maybe a bit scary ... it's the beginning of 
bridging the gap between non-creative thinking (learning by wrote) and 
creative thinking (abstract). Can't wait until they start talking about 
us (humans) and inventing words to describe us. Hmmmm ... wonder what 
silly noids is in robot speak.


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