 |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 18:53:03 +0100, Stephen wrote:
> My first computer was an Amstrad PC1512, that's not counting
> programmable calculators.
That goes back a bit before my time. :)
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 13/04/2011 9:11 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 18:53:03 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>> My first computer was an Amstrad PC1512, that's not counting
>> programmable calculators.
>
> That goes back a bit before my time. :)
>
1986?
The youngsters today don't know that they are living.
Four Yorkshiremen?
http://www.zappinternet.com/video/jetCpaHyaK/At-Last-the-1948-Show-The-Four-Yorkshiremen-Sketch
--
Regards
Stephen
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 21:26:16 +0100, Stephen wrote:
> On 13/04/2011 9:11 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 18:53:03 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> My first computer was an Amstrad PC1512, that's not counting
>>> programmable calculators.
>>
>> That goes back a bit before my time. :)
>>
>>
> 1986?
Hmm, maybe not - I had been thinking it was more contemporary to the C64,
but my brain hiccuped. ;)
> The youngsters today don't know that they are living. Four Yorkshiremen?
>
> http://www.zappinternet.com/video/jetCpaHyaK/At-Last-the-1948-Show-The-
Four-Yorkshiremen-Sketch
Indeed, I've seen/heard many versions of it. BTW, thanks for the 'new to
me' Clue - I was right, we hadn't heard those before. :)
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 13/04/2011 10:03 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>
>>> That goes back a bit before my time. :)
>>>
>>>
>> 1986?
>
> Hmm, maybe not - I had been thinking it was more contemporary to the C64,
> but my brain hiccuped. ;)
You might be buying one of these then.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12997245
>
>> The youngsters today don't know that they are living. Four Yorkshiremen?
>>
>> http://www.zappinternet.com/video/jetCpaHyaK/At-Last-the-1948-Show-The-
> Four-Yorkshiremen-Sketch
>
> Indeed, I've seen/heard many versions of it. BTW, thanks for the 'new to
> me' Clue - I was right, we hadn't heard those before. :)
>
Clue? At last the 1948 show.
--
Regards
Stephen
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 13/04/2011 04:55 PM, Darren New wrote:
> On 4/13/2011 0:55, Invisible wrote:
>> And this is why DRM will never work. As long as at least one device
>> exists
>> which ignores DRM, the system is trivially broken.
>
> In that sense of trivial, it's already trivially broken, because there
> are no secrets involved. To play encrypted media, you have to decrypt it
> on the customer's equipment, meaning the customer has in his hands
> everything he needs to know to bypass the DRM.
It would be harder to crack if you invented some new storage format and
then made all devices capable of playing it respect the DRM. (In
particular, this means not making it playable on a PC.) Trouble is, as I
say, as soon as one company manufactures a device that ignores the DRM,
everything is ruined forever.
On the other hand, if you can see it, you can copy it. At least until
they ban video recording equipment...
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 4/14/2011 1:07 AM, Invisible wrote:
> On 13/04/2011 04:55 PM, Darren New wrote:
>> On 4/13/2011 0:55, Invisible wrote:
>>> And this is why DRM will never work. As long as at least one device
>>> exists
>>> which ignores DRM, the system is trivially broken.
>>
>> In that sense of trivial, it's already trivially broken, because there
>> are no secrets involved. To play encrypted media, you have to decrypt it
>> on the customer's equipment, meaning the customer has in his hands
>> everything he needs to know to bypass the DRM.
>
> It would be harder to crack if you invented some new storage format and
> then made all devices capable of playing it respect the DRM. (In
> particular, this means not making it playable on a PC.) Trouble is, as I
> say, as soon as one company manufactures a device that ignores the DRM,
> everything is ruined forever.
>
Such systems have existed, I will give you two guesses why they never
took off. First, it locks you into using *only* devices that actually
support it, which is exactly what the DRM of DVDs attempted to do. Ones
that decode them for OSes/devices that can't natively do so still have
to use the DRM, they just don't have to use the "approved" method. Any
system that was unbreakable, would be useless though, since you would be
forced to use it only how the distributor allowed. And.. That isn't
going to go over too well. Second, it creates conditions where the data
becomes unreadable, once the technology is passed out of use. Half the
shit produced for computers over the last 30 years either requires the
original hardware to even read, or had DRM on it, which requires
"cracking" the DRM method used, to replicate it some place else, and
even when there wasn't any DRM, simply difference in file formats, or
media formats, have rendered everything from NASA records, to old games,
to office documents, unusable.
If you care about the content persisting at all, you **can't** DRM it.
If you don't give a shit that 50 years from now the only copy requires
some device, which understands the DRM, and can read the media, of which
only one is known to even exist, then.. lock the thing up as tight as
you want. Just don't whine to the few people that managed to copy it
anyway, that you are losing revenue, or some such, over something even
*you* can't reproduce any more.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 14/04/2011 8:22 AM, Stephen wrote:
> On 13/04/2011 10:03 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> That goes back a bit before my time. :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> 1986?
>>
>> Hmm, maybe not - I had been thinking it was more contemporary to the C64,
>> but my brain hiccuped. ;)
>
You might be buying one of these then.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12997245
>>
>>> The youngsters today don't know that they are living. Four Yorkshiremen?
>>>
>>> http://www.zappinternet.com/video/jetCpaHyaK/At-Last-the-1948-Show-The-
>> Four-Yorkshiremen-Sketch
>>
>> Indeed, I've seen/heard many versions of it. BTW, thanks for the 'new to
>> me' Clue - I was right, we hadn't heard those before. :)
>>
>
>
Clue? At last the 1948 show.
>
--
Regards
Stephen
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 4/14/2011 1:07, Invisible wrote:
> It would be harder to crack if you invented some new storage format and then
> made all devices capable of playing it respect the DRM.
They did this with DVDs and Blu-Rays.
> (In particular, this means not making it playable on a PC.)
The PC playback software respected the DRM. Someone just found a way to
break into the PC software. Just like they found a way to break into the PS3
hardware.
> Trouble is, as I say, as soon as one
> company manufactures a device that ignores the DRM, everything is ruined
> forever.
Or as soon as the DRM scheme is broken. Most DRM schemes have mechanisms
for repudiating certain schemes or keys or players or whatever. The Windows
DRM stuff has a bunch of things in there to make sure that if you do manage
to break it and they find out the player that broke, they can keep the keys
away from that player in the future. Of course, this means that every
player has to communicate with the servers at some point before they can
play stuff, so it wouldn't really work well for things like DVDs but rather
only for online stuff.
> On the other hand, if you can see it, you can copy it. At least until they
> ban video recording equipment...
Yes, that's basically the trick I'm speaking of.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Coding without comments is like
driving without turn signals."
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 08:22:23 +0100, Stephen wrote:
> On 13/04/2011 10:03 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>
>
>>>> That goes back a bit before my time. :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> 1986?
>>
>> Hmm, maybe not - I had been thinking it was more contemporary to the
>> C64, but my brain hiccuped. ;)
>
> You might be buying one of these then.
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12997245
I've been following that story with some interest, but I probably won't
get one - the classic C64 keyboard isn't well suited for my way of
typing, and the layout differs from standard layouts now (though perhaps
they'll address that).
>>> The youngsters today don't know that they are living. Four
>>> Yorkshiremen?
>>>
>>> http://www.zappinternet.com/video/jetCpaHyaK/At-Last-the-1948-Show-
The-
>> Four-Yorkshiremen-Sketch
>>
>> Indeed, I've seen/heard many versions of it. BTW, thanks for the 'new
>> to me' Clue - I was right, we hadn't heard those before. :)
>>
>>
> Clue? At last the 1948 show.
Haven't done the 1948 show episodes yet, but yes, there was the 1976
series of Clue in there as well. :)
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 09:30:54 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> On 4/14/2011 1:07, Invisible wrote:
>> It would be harder to crack if you invented some new storage format and
>> then made all devices capable of playing it respect the DRM.
>
> They did this with DVDs and Blu-Rays.
And that didn't exactly work out well - both formats' DRM has been broken
(DVD for many years now).
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
