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On 2011-04-12 09:15, Invisible wrote:
> When I was a kid, I used to enjoy watching TV programs about the future.
> Stuff like Tomorrow's World and Beyond 2000. Basically programs where
> they show you crazy new inventions. Some of them seemed fantastic, some
> of them seemed utterly stupid. There aren't that many that I still
> remember.
They're still around, in various forms. 'Beyond Tomorrow' is afaict the
same people who did Beyond 2000, but since we're past 2000... There's
also Popular Science's 'the Future of' or somesuch. Few episodes I saw
were each focused on a particular topic, such as gaming, transportation,
etc.
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>> It's news to me that DAT was ever intended as anything other than a
>> studio format.
>
> That's why it sucks so hard as a backup medium - it was only intended to
> be used for lossy data (ie, audio), and was adapted for use for backup
> medium.
Digital is digital. If you lose digital data, generally it utterly
screws everything up.
I too spent many years using DAT (actually DDS-4) tapes for backup. We
had occasional problems, but nothing major.
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On 12/04/2011 06:20 PM, Stephen wrote:
> FYI My Tascam DAT recorder has an "Engineering" mode that ignores DRM.
And this is why DRM will never work. As long as at least one device
exists which ignores DRM, the system is trivially broken.
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On 12/04/2011 10:28 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 21:17:28 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>> On 12/04/2011 6:29 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> It's news to me that DAT was ever intended as anything other than a
>>>>> studio format.
>>> That's why it sucks so hard as a backup medium - it was only intended
>>> to be used for lossy data (ie, audio), and was adapted for use for
>>> backup medium.
>>
>> Are you sure about that, Jim?
>> I seem to remember that in the mid 70s I used DAT tape to load
>> programmes and data into a Burroughs mini computer.
>
> I'm pretty sure about that. "Digital Audio Tape" is what DAT stands for.
>
Well they were not called DAT but they were in the same casing and had
similar lengths. They did have a small hole punched near to the ends of
the tape and a light sensor to stop the tape running off the spindle.
> You aren't thinking about standard cassettes? I used to use those on
> Commodore PET and C64 computers, and they also had occasional issues with
> data loss.
>
Never had one of those.
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 13/04/2011 8:55 AM, Invisible wrote:
> On 12/04/2011 06:20 PM, Stephen wrote:
>
>> FYI My Tascam DAT recorder has an "Engineering" mode that ignores DRM.
>
> And this is why DRM will never work. As long as at least one device
> exists which ignores DRM, the system is trivially broken.
True :-D
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 4/13/2011 0:54, Invisible wrote:
> Digital is digital. If you lose digital data, generally it utterly screws
> everything up.
Not really. When the digital is a digital representation of analog, it's OK
to lose some bits sometimes.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Coding without comments is like
driving without turn signals."
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On 4/13/2011 0:55, Invisible wrote:
> And this is why DRM will never work. As long as at least one device exists
> which ignores DRM, the system is trivially broken.
In that sense of trivial, it's already trivially broken, because there are
no secrets involved. To play encrypted media, you have to decrypt it on the
customer's equipment, meaning the customer has in his hands everything he
needs to know to bypass the DRM.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Coding without comments is like
driving without turn signals."
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On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 08:54:51 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>>> It's news to me that DAT was ever intended as anything other than a
>>> studio format.
>>
>> That's why it sucks so hard as a backup medium - it was only intended
>> to be used for lossy data (ie, audio), and was adapted for use for
>> backup medium.
>
> Digital is digital. If you lose digital data, generally it utterly
> screws everything up.
You'd think so, but having seen them used in both lossy and lossless
situations, I'll take experience over conjecture. ;)
> I too spent many years using DAT (actually DDS-4) tapes for backup. We
> had occasional problems, but nothing major.
I never had good luck with DDS-2 tapes myself. You might recall that I
related a story a couple years ago where I got *blamed* for data loss
from DDS-2 DAT tapes even though I warned that the systems were telling
me that the backups were no good (ie, they failed verification every
night). Then the finance server crashed and was completely unrecoverable.
I don't trust DAT tapes for backup any further can I can *comfortably*
spit a rat.
Jim
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On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 09:15:42 +0100, Stephen wrote:
> On 12/04/2011 10:28 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 21:17:28 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/04/2011 6:29 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>>> It's news to me that DAT was ever intended as anything other than a
>>>>>> studio format.
>>>> That's why it sucks so hard as a backup medium - it was only intended
>>>> to be used for lossy data (ie, audio), and was adapted for use for
>>>> backup medium.
>>>
>>> Are you sure about that, Jim?
>>> I seem to remember that in the mid 70s I used DAT tape to load
>>> programmes and data into a Burroughs mini computer.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure about that. "Digital Audio Tape" is what DAT stands
>> for.
>>
>>
> Well they were not called DAT but they were in the same casing and had
> similar lengths. They did have a small hole punched near to the ends of
> the tape and a light sensor to stop the tape running off the spindle.
Yeah, that's different than what I'm talking about - DDS-2 (for example)
didn't come out until the 90's IIRC.
>> You aren't thinking about standard cassettes? I used to use those on
>> Commodore PET and C64 computers, and they also had occasional issues
>> with data loss.
>>
>>
>
> Never had one of those.
I had a C64, but the PET was a business computer back in the 80's. We
had those at school.
Jim
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On 13/04/2011 5:07 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> Yeah, that's different than what I'm talking about - DDS-2 (for example)
> didn't come out until the 90's IIRC.
>
It was a long time ago but I'm sure those tapes were very similar to
DATs. I wouldn't put money on it though.
>>> >> You aren't thinking about standard cassettes? I used to use those on
>>> >> Commodore PET and C64 computers, and they also had occasional issues
>>> >> with data loss.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>> >
>> > Never had one of those.
> I had a C64, but the PET was a business computer back in the 80's. We
> had those at school.
>
My first computer was an Amstrad PC1512, that's not counting
programmable calculators.
--
Regards
Stephen
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