On 25/02/2011 10:04 AM, scott wrote:
>> It's against the terms of the EULA to resell an XP license if you've
>> used it.
>
> I very much doubt that (unless you got the OEM or some upgrade version).

I don't think I've ever seen a PC with a non-OEM version of Windows 
installed. (As far as anyone can tell, "OEM" means "25% cheaper with no 
apparent difference in functionality".) However, checking the fine 
print, it does appear that there exist versions of Windows for which you 
*can* legitimately transfer the license. I didn't know that was possible.

>> (And let's face it, how many people will have paid hundreds of
>> pounds for something and not used it?)
>
> Quite a lot actually, it's called running a shop.

Uhuh. And how many of those copies will have been sold over the last 
FOUR YEARS?

Seriously, there's no chance that anybody has any [legal] copies left.

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> Seriously, there's no chance that anybody has any [legal] copies left.

Why don't you just try and buy one from amazon?  Once you receive it it 
would be easy to check if it's legal or not, and amazon have a very good 
returns service if it did turn out to be illegal (plus they'd also be 
pretty interested in closing down the source of illegal software they 
were advertising on their site).

Unless you have money to burn, then I'd just get a Win7 license and use 
that for XP.

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On 25/02/2011 10:23 AM, Invisible wrote:
> Seriously, there's no chance that anybody has any [legal] copies left.

You do yourself no good expressing those opinions in such a strong 
manor. It makes you sound narrow-minded and stupid and I know that you 
are not.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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On 25/02/2011 10:47 AM, Stephen wrote:
> On 25/02/2011 10:23 AM, Invisible wrote:
>> Seriously, there's no chance that anybody has any [legal] copies left.
>
> You do yourself no good expressing those opinions in such a strong
> manor. It makes you sound narrow-minded and stupid and I know that you
> are not.

If the manufacturer stops making something, you can't buy it any more. 
(At least, not new.) I would have described this as an "obvious fact" 
rather than a mere "opinion".

Or am I actually that stupid that I've missed something?

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> If the manufacturer stops making something, you can't buy it any more.

Incorrect.  Take a car that hasn't been in production for the last 10 
years to a garage and ask for a new part (specific to that car) - 
they'll likely have a new one in stock somewhere.  Lots of companies 
specifically buy up lots of parts before production stops, exactly to be 
able to supply them to people at a later date.

I imagine lots of shops bought a load of XP licenses just before MS 
stopped supplying it, some might have even bought enough to last a 
couple of years, and so still have some to sell today.  (Or maybe some 
just overestimated how many XP licenses they would sell).  It doesn't 
seem that implausible to suggest that every XP you see for sale is illegal.

> (At least, not new.)

Does "not new" even make sense for a software license, are you worried 
that the last few digits of the license code might start to wear away? :-)

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On 25/02/2011 12:24 PM, scott wrote:
>> If the manufacturer stops making something, you can't buy it any more.
>
> Incorrect. Take a car that hasn't been in production for the last 10
> years to a garage and ask for a new part (specific to that car) -
> they'll likely have a new one in stock somewhere.

Presumably that's because other companies start making replacement parts 
if there's a demand for them.

> Lots of companies
> specifically buy up lots of parts before production stops, exactly to be
> able to supply them to people at a later date.
>
> I imagine lots of shops bought a load of XP licenses just before MS
> stopped supplying it

I know for a fact that ebuyer did this. However, that was over four 
years ago. They can't possibly have any stock left by now. (And, indeed, 
a quick search of their website reveals this to be the case.)

> It doesn't
> seem that implausible to suggest that every XP you see for sale is illegal.

I presume you meant the negation of that sentence?

>> (At least, not new.)
>
> Does "not new" even make sense for a software license, are you worried
> that the last few digits of the license code might start to wear away? :-)

No. I'm worried about buying second-hand goods from private individuals, 
rather than from a reputable company. Generally I don't buy anything 
(not just software) from private individuals.

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On 25/02/2011 12:05 PM, Invisible wrote:
> On 25/02/2011 10:47 AM, Stephen wrote:
>> On 25/02/2011 10:23 AM, Invisible wrote:
>>> Seriously, there's no chance that anybody has any [legal] copies left.
>>
>> You do yourself no good expressing those opinions in such a strong
>> manor. It makes you sound narrow-minded and stupid and I know that you
>> are not.
>
> If the manufacturer stops making something, you can't buy it any more.
> (At least, not new.) I would have described this as an "obvious fact"
> rather than a mere "opinion".
>

You would be wrong. You can generally buy new/unused/not pre-owned 
"things" for some time after they have been discontinued. Some people 
make a living out of it.

> Or am I actually that stupid that I've missed something?

You are not stupid but you make assumptions without checking properly. 
For instance I looked on ebay and can see over 100 XP OS for sale. Quite 
a lot of them are "buy it now" which probably means they are from a trader.


-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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>> If the manufacturer stops making something, you can't buy it any more.
>> (At least, not new.) I would have described this as an "obvious fact"
>> rather than a mere "opinion".
>
> You would be wrong. You can generally buy new/unused/not pre-owned
> "things" for some time after they have been discontinued. Some people
> make a living out of it.

You can certainly by used items for a long time after it stops being 
made. But you cannot, for example, buy a "new" Pentium II. They don't 
make them any more.

>> Or am I actually that stupid that I've missed something?
>
> You are not stupid but you make assumptions without checking properly.
> For instance I looked on ebay

You saw software for sale on ebay, and you think it's *legal*??

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>> Incorrect. Take a car that hasn't been in production for the last 10
>> years to a garage and ask for a new part (specific to that car) -
>> they'll likely have a new one in stock somewhere.
>
> Presumably that's because other companies start making replacement parts
> if there's a demand for them.

No I'm talking about original parts, they estimate how many parts will 
be needed for the specified service life of the car (typically 12 years 
after end of mass production) and build that many before shutting the 
production line down.  It would be extraordinarily expensive to produce 
just a handful of parts later down the line for a few replacements on 
one car.

> I know for a fact that ebuyer did this. However, that was over four
> years ago. They can't possibly have any stock left by now.

According to Wikipedia MS was still selling the OEM version of XP in 
2009.  Anyway, just because ebuyer have sold everything they stocked up 
on doesn't mean everyone else has too.  It would be quite unlikely that 
out of all the shops in the world none overestimated how many copies of 
XP they were going to sell.

> No. I'm worried about buying second-hand goods from private individuals,
> rather than from a reputable company. Generally I don't buy anything
> (not just software) from private individuals.

Buy one from Amazon then.

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On 25/02/2011 1:38 PM, Invisible wrote:
>
> You can certainly by used items for a long time after it stops being
> made. But you cannot, for example, buy a "new" Pentium II. They don't
> make them any more.
>

Look at:
http://tinyurl.com/6l4w67o

>>
>> You are not stupid but you make assumptions without checking properly.
>> For instance I looked on ebay
>
> You saw software for sale on ebay, and you think it's *legal*??

Most likely yes. Why do you think it wouldn't be?
I know it is a big bad world but not everyone is dishonest. In my 
experience most people are honest. I've even met Nigerians who although 
will make a profit are basically honest.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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