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13 Oct 2026 01:02:48 EDT (-0400)
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From: scott
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 10:16:25
Message: <4d370049$1@news.povray.org>
> But the reality of a 20" display at 326 dpi, for 2D, is not useful.

Especially as Windows (or more accurately, programs written for windows) 
don't seem to handle using higher DPI settings (typically icons and 
fonts get lost off the side of windows).

> For a 20" display, that would make the pixel unreadable.
> (usual pixel size is between 0.2 and 0.3 mm, which is about the
> classical 72&  100 dpi of fonts)
> Pushing to 200 dpi in 20" would still be a frivolous move.

Some specialist-use displays (medical, xray scanning, aeronautical etc) 
push up to 200 dpi in large format (2048x2560 seems to be the common 
resolution), but you're talking $10k for these which means they're not 
going to catch on for home/office use any time soon.


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 10:19:33
Message: <4d370105$1@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 03:16 PM, scott wrote:
>> But the reality of a 20" display at 326 dpi, for 2D, is not useful.
>
> Especially as Windows (or more accurately, programs written for windows)
> don't seem to handle using higher DPI settings (typically icons and
> fonts get lost off the side of windows).

Cool. Another thing that Windows has ruined.

> Some specialist-use displays (medical, xray scanning, aeronautical etc)
> push up to 200 dpi in large format (2048x2560 seems to be the common
> resolution), but you're talking $10k for these which means they're not
> going to catch on for home/office use any time soon.

Not unless there's a radical price change, no. (And I'm guessing there 
won't be until demand is there. And there won't be demand as long as 
software can't do anything useful with the hardware...)


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From: scott
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 10:39:09
Message: <4d37059d$1@news.povray.org>
> Not unless there's a radical price change, no. (And I'm guessing there
> won't be until demand is there. And there won't be demand as long as
> software can't do anything useful with the hardware...)

Just be patient.  Personally I think there will be more of an advantage 
(especially for gaming and films) of going to higher frame rates rather 
than higher resolutions.  Films and games at true 120 Hz would be awesome.


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 10:41:21
Message: <4d370621$1@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 03:39 PM, scott wrote:
>> Not unless there's a radical price change, no. (And I'm guessing there
>> won't be until demand is there. And there won't be demand as long as
>> software can't do anything useful with the hardware...)
>
> Just be patient.

Heh, yeah, like that ever works. ;-)

> Personally I think there will be more of an advantage
> (especially for gaming and films) of going to higher frame rates rather
> than higher resolutions. Films and games at true 120 Hz would be awesome.

Amen.

Obligatory XKCD quote: http://www.xkcd.com/732/ (Check the alt-text.)


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From: scott
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 10:57:06
Message: <4d3709d2@news.povray.org>
>> Personally I think there will be more of an advantage
>> (especially for gaming and films) of going to higher frame rates rather
>> than higher resolutions. Films and games at true 120 Hz would be awesome.
>
> Amen.
>
> Obligatory XKCD quote: http://www.xkcd.com/732/ (Check the alt-text.)

When I got 3Dfx card ages ago I remember setting my CRT to 640x480x120Hz 
and playing Forsaken (one of the bundled games).  As long as there 
wasn't much on-screen action it would run at 120 fps and that was sweeeeet.


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 11:07:01
Message: <4d370c25$1@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 03:57 PM, scott wrote:

> When I got 3Dfx card ages ago I remember setting my CRT to 640x480x120Hz
> and playing Forsaken (one of the bundled games). As long as there wasn't
> much on-screen action it would run at 120 fps and that was sweeeeet.

Um... can you actually do that? I mean, do there actually exist any 
display devices that operate at some frequency other than 50Hz or 60Hz? 
Is there any kind of video signal that can transfer data at other speeds?


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From: andrel
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 11:08:22
Message: <4D370C86.2010806@gmail.com>
On 19-1-2011 11:24, Stephen wrote:
> On 18/01/2011 10:35 PM, andrel wrote:
>> On 18-1-2011 22:51, Stephen wrote:
>>> On 18/01/2011 7:02 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 09:42:52 -0800, Darren New wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There's no infinitive in either version.
>>>>
>>>> True, I did misname it - but I found the sentence structure awkward as
>>>> originally written. Just misidentified why it was awkward. :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Cause it sounds wrong.
>>> How do non-native speakers identify wrong grammer, I wonder?
>>
>> Reading and listening a lot until you get a feeling for the language.
>
> Oh! Just like native speakers :-)

yes, it does probably explain the FTFY from Andy yesterday.

> Thanks Andrel.
>


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From: Neeum Zawan
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 11:12:39
Message: <8762tk3mcq.fsf@fester.com>
Patrick Elliott <sel### [at] npgcablecom> writes:

> But, in general, books tend to have very sharp text, no blurring, and
> very little glare, or light induced strain. So, no, it is possible to

I haven't seen an ereader that uses eink that has any of these problems.


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From: andrel
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 11:12:41
Message: <4D370D89.9010808@gmail.com>
On 19-1-2011 17:07, Invisible wrote:
> On 19/01/2011 03:57 PM, scott wrote:
>
>> When I got 3Dfx card ages ago I remember setting my CRT to 640x480x120Hz
>> and playing Forsaken (one of the bundled games). As long as there wasn't
>> much on-screen action it would run at 120 fps and that was sweeeeet.
>
> Um... can you actually do that? I mean, do there actually exist any
> display devices that operate at some frequency other than 50Hz or 60Hz?
> Is there any kind of video signal that can transfer data at other speeds?

You don't honestly expect anyone to answer that, do you?


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 11:16:32
Message: <4d370e60$1@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 04:12 PM, andrel wrote:
> On 19-1-2011 17:07, Invisible wrote:
>> On 19/01/2011 03:57 PM, scott wrote:
>>
>>> When I got 3Dfx card ages ago I remember setting my CRT to 640x480x120Hz
>>> and playing Forsaken (one of the bundled games). As long as there wasn't
>>> much on-screen action it would run at 120 fps and that was sweeeeet.
>>
>> Um... can you actually do that? I mean, do there actually exist any
>> display devices that operate at some frequency other than 50Hz or 60Hz?
>> Is there any kind of video signal that can transfer data at other speeds?
>
> You don't honestly expect anyone to answer that, do you?

Well, I've often wondered what the point of having a graphics card that 
can put out 400 frames per second is, given that (as far as I know) no 
display devices update that fast. It just seems like a waste of computer 
power...


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 11:16:57
Message: <4d370e79@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 4:12 PM, andrel wrote:
> You don't honestly expect anyone to answer that, do you?

I will.
No! he's winding you up. :-P

-- 
Regards
     Stephen


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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 11:21:16
Message: <4d370f7c$1@news.povray.org>
Invisible wrote:
> arguably clearer than the actual paper book I'm currently reading, 


Yep. It's like high-gloss paper without the gloss. Very high resolution and 
very smooth.  Much easier to read than a standard paperback book.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Serving Suggestion:
     "Don't serve this any more. It's awful."


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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 11:23:26
Message: <4d370ffe$1@news.povray.org>
Invisible wrote:
> why is the iPhone the only device on the market to 
> do this?

Why would you say it is?

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Serving Suggestion:
     "Don't serve this any more. It's awful."


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 11:24:03
Message: <4d371023$1@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 4:08 PM, andrel wrote:
>>> Reading and listening a lot until you get a feeling for the language.
>>
>> Oh! Just like native speakers :-)
>
> yes, it does probably explain the FTFY from Andy yesterday.

To deep for me ;-)

-- 
Regards
     Stephen


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 11:28:00
Message: <4d371110$1@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 04:23 PM, Darren New wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>> why is the iPhone the only device on the market to do this?
>
> Why would you say it is?

He didn't say "lots of devices do this", he said "the iPhone does this".


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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 11:28:08
Message: <4d371118$1@news.povray.org>
Stephen wrote:
> On 19/01/2011 1:35 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> "It will be John and I coming tomorrow" sounds fine to me in answer to
>>> >  "Who will be coming tomorrow?"
>> It's a bit formal, and still doesn't sound right to me.  In answer to
>> that question, most people would say "John and I" or some variation
>> thereof - "Me and John" would be grammatically incorrect, but what a lot
>> of Americans would actually say, or "John and me" for that matter.)
>>
> 
> Try "John and I are coming tomorrow" or "will be"

I'm not saying it's the only or best way of phrasing it. But it's perfectly 
good english to say "It will be John and I attending."  You might reply that 
on a wedding invitation or something, because it sounds a bit formal, but 
it's nowhere near wrong.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Serving Suggestion:
     "Don't serve this any more. It's awful."


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 11:28:16
Message: <4d371120$1@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 04:23 PM, Stephen wrote:
> On 19/01/2011 4:08 PM, andrel wrote:
>>>> Reading and listening a lot until you get a feeling for the language.
>>>
>>> Oh! Just like native speakers :-)
>>
>> yes, it does probably explain the FTFY from Andy yesterday.
>
> To deep for me ;-)

Shouldn't that be "too deep"?


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 11:45:25
Message: <4d371525$1@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 4:28 PM, Invisible wrote:
> Shouldn't that be "too deep"?

Oh! Bugger off, ya big toerag :-P

-- 
Regards
     Stephen


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 11:47:41
Message: <4d3715ad$1@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 4:28 PM, Darren New wrote:
>>> , or "John and me" for that matter.)
>>>
>>
>> Try "John and I are coming tomorrow" or "will be"
>
> I'm not saying it's the only or best way of phrasing it. But it's
> perfectly good english to say "It will be John and I attending."  You
> might reply that on a wedding invitation or something, because it sounds
> a bit formal, but it's nowhere near wrong.

No arguments. It was “I coming tomorrow" I meant.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen


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From: scott
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 11:50:46
Message: <4d371666$1@news.povray.org>
>> When I got 3Dfx card ages ago I remember setting my CRT to 640x480x120Hz
>> and playing Forsaken (one of the bundled games). As long as there wasn't
>> much on-screen action it would run at 120 fps and that was sweeeeet.
>
> Um... can you actually do that? I mean, do there actually exist any
> display devices that operate at some frequency other than 50Hz or 60Hz?

IIRC most CRTs could be set to run at almost any frequency up to some 
maximum.  75 and 85 Hz was very common as 60 Hz gave quite bad 
flickering.  LCDs can easily manage 120 Hz now, even 480 Hz:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2337668,00.asp

The problem is the TVs are designed to only accept 60 Hz signals and 
create the inbetween frames themselves.  If only they could allow higher 
frame rate data to be supplied from outside we'd be sorted (also I have 
no idea what limitations are in current graphics cards regarding high 
framerates).  It surely can't be far off, I expect 3D to drive the 
change, as consoles/PCs will soon be required to send data at 120 Hz to 
give 60 Hz to each eye.


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 12:04:23
Message: <4d371997$1@news.povray.org>
>> Um... can you actually do that? I mean, do there actually exist any
>> display devices that operate at some frequency other than 50Hz or 60Hz?
>
> IIRC most CRTs could be set to run at almost any frequency up to some
> maximum. 75 and 85 Hz was very common as 60 Hz gave quite bad
> flickering. LCDs can easily manage 120 Hz now, even 480 Hz:

Interesting. I was told that all LCDs always operate at 60 Hz and it's 
impossible to change. Similarly, I thought CRTs had specific 
synchronisation circuitry that only works over a very narrow band of 
sync rates.

> The problem is the TVs are designed to only accept 60 Hz signals and
> create the inbetween frames themselves.

Well, yeah, there is that too. I'm not aware of any video signal system 
that allows faster framerates. Not because it's impossible, but just 
because it's not allowed by any widely-used standard.


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 13:23:00
Message: <4d372c04$1@news.povray.org>
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 19:32:11 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:

> But, in general, books tend to have very sharp text, no blurring, and
> very little glare, or light induced strain. So, no, it is possible to
> have no problem with a book, yet have problems with an ereader, the most
> common issue being the "blurriness" of the text on some models.

That's odd, though, because there's been a recent study that suggests 
that books make a bigger imprint (and are easier to remember) on the 
brain because you don't have to work as hard at reading/focusing on text 
in an eReader.

I didn't read the entire article on that, so it may be a load of tosh, 
but....

Jim


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 13:24:19
Message: <4d372c53$1@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 11:34:04 +0000, Invisible wrote:

> Basically, my question is this: If the technology exists to make a high
> resolution LCD, then why is the iPhone the only device on the market to
> do this?

It isn't.  My Droid Incredible has a very clear and sharp SLCD display 
(though I'm not sure what the ppi is on it)

Jim


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 13:27:29
Message: <4d372d11$1@news.povray.org>
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 18:10:01 -0800, Neeum Zawan wrote:

> Agreed - that's why I said best selling authors. Even that's a stretch.
> I really meant people like King, Grisham, Grafton, etc.

Yes, but because there are so many authors who aren't best selling 
authors, the publisher makes up the difference so they can 'loss lead' 
with their top authors.

Jim


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 13:29:07
Message: <4d372d73$1@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 09:17:51 +0000, Invisible wrote:

> On 18/01/2011 09:08 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> Write a song that doesn't at least in some fundamental way follow basic
>> musical structure, and it'll be nothing more than noise.
> 
> Ah - so you're familiar with Pink Floyd then? :-)

I actually quite like Pink Floyd. :-)

When I'm talking about noise, it's more along the lines of 80's heavy 
metal bands that I'm thinking of.  There are, of course, exceptions - 
most of the songs that I'd classify as "noise" are songs I heard riding 
the school bus and never learned the names of.

Jim


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 13:29:52
Message: <4d372da0$1@news.povray.org>
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 18:16:42 -0800, Neeum Zawan wrote:

> Well, I'd think having access to a studio really helps when you're
> recording a song...

Depends on the quality you're looking for, but yes, having the right 
tools helps (in both cases).

>> To do so well, you have to know the proper syntaxes and structures to
>> use.  Write a book using incomprehensible language or grammar, and
>> it'll be crap.  Write a song that doesn't at least in some fundamental
>> way follow basic musical structure, and it'll be nothing more than
>> noise.
> 
> I was thinking more about stuff like recording equipment, etc.

Fair point.

Jim


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 13:31:14
Message: <4d372df2$1@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:20:29 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 19/01/2011 1:35 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> "It will be John and I coming tomorrow" sounds fine to me in answer to
>>> >  "Who will be coming tomorrow?"
>> It's a bit formal, and still doesn't sound right to me.  In answer to
>> that question, most people would say "John and I" or some variation
>> thereof - "Me and John" would be grammatically incorrect, but what a
>> lot of Americans would actually say, or "John and me" for that matter.)
>>
>>
> Try "John and I are coming tomorrow" or "will be"

Well, yes, I think that was my original suggestion.  But at least here in 
the US, most people will abbreviate to one of the 3-word variations I 
wrote above, but that's not a commentary on what's grammatically correct.

Jim


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 13:32:09
Message: <4d372e29@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 09:13:15 +0000, Invisible wrote:

> On 18/01/2011 05:26 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> no split infinitive. :-)
> 
> Oh Christ no... >_<

"[...] To boldly split infinitives that no man has split before." -- 
Douglas Adams

Jim


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 13:35:38
Message: <4d372efa$1@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 09:30:58 +0000, scott wrote:

> Assuming people would follow the terms in the license agreement doesn't
> seem bad or faulty to me.

The bad assumption is that people will buy it, so then they write the 
license agreement to reflect that bad assumption.

It's a faulty premise, and not really my problem that they made a bad 
assumption and based their business model on it.

Most people that I know feel the same way - I bought the (CD, ePub, 
whatever), so if I want to convert it to something more convenient for my 
own personal use, that's my business.

Where it becomes a problem is when I convert it to a format that's 
convenient and then share it with someone who should buy their own copy.

> The problem is how to draw the line between what is right and
> wrong from a legal point of view?

The problem, really, is how to draw the line about what's right and wrong 
from an ethical point of view (from the publisher's point of view).  Is 
it ethically right to make people pay multiple times for the same digital 
content?  Maybe yes, maybe no, depending on the circumstances.

Just because something's legal doesn't mean it's *right*.  That's with 
civil disobedience is all about.

Jim


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 13:57:11
Message: <4d373407@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 6:31 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:20:29 +0000, Stephen wrote:
>
>> On 19/01/2011 1:35 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> "It will be John and I coming tomorrow" sounds fine to me in answer to
>>>>>   "Who will be coming tomorrow?"
>>> It's a bit formal, and still doesn't sound right to me.  In answer to
>>> that question, most people would say "John and I" or some variation
>>> thereof - "Me and John" would be grammatically incorrect, but what a
>>> lot of Americans would actually say, or "John and me" for that matter.)
>>>
>>>
>> Try "John and I are coming tomorrow" or "will be"
>
> Well, yes, I think that was my original suggestion.  But at least here in
> the US, most people will abbreviate to one of the 3-word variations I
> wrote above, but that's not a commentary on what's grammatically correct.
>

No wonder we need sub-titles for American TV. ;-)

-- 
Regards
     Stephen


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 14:45:02
Message: <4d373f3e$1@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 18:57:07 +0000, Stephen wrote:

>> Well, yes, I think that was my original suggestion.  But at least here
>> in the US, most people will abbreviate to one of the 3-word variations
>> I wrote above, but that's not a commentary on what's grammatically
>> correct.
>>
>>
> No wonder we need sub-titles for American TV. ;-)

Hehehehe, you know, I was quite amazed when, at a holiday party last 
year, the hosts showed us a couple episodes of "Only Fools and 
Horses" (Mark's from Ireland and has a heavy Irish accent most of the 
time) and they gave us the caveat that the accents might be difficult to 
understand, but we didn't need subtitles and understood most of the 
cultural jokes as well as not having a problem with the accents. :-)

I think they were slightly surprised that we didn't have any problems at 
all understanding what was being said.  :-)

Jim


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From: nemesis
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 15:48:00
Message: <4d374e00@news.povray.org>
scott escreveu:
> IIRC most CRTs could be set to run at almost any frequency up to some 
> maximum.  75 and 85 Hz was very common as 60 Hz gave quite bad 
> flickering.  LCDs can easily manage 120 Hz now, even 480 Hz:

I've seen some bluray animations in these 120hz (or was it higher?) LCDs 
and was blown away.   Andrew's eyes don't seem to notice any difference 
between 480p and 1080p, but I'm sure the bizarrely bigger-than-life 
smoothness would be difficult to ignore...

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9


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From: andrel
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 16:10:07
Message: <4D37533D.7090202@gmail.com>
On 19-1-2011 17:23, Stephen wrote:
> On 19/01/2011 4:08 PM, andrel wrote:
>>>> Reading and listening a lot until you get a feeling for the language.
>>>
>>> Oh! Just like native speakers :-)
>>
>> yes, it does probably explain the FTFY from that big toerag yesterday.
>
> To deep for me ;-)

My sincere apologies for that.


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 16:20:59
Message: <4d3755bb$1@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 9:10 PM, andrel wrote:
>> Too deep for me ;-)
>
> My sincere apologies for that.

Accepted :-)

-- 
Regards
     Stephen


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 16:45:10
Message: <4d375b66@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 7:45 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:

>> No wonder we need sub-titles for American TV. ;-)
>
> Hehehehe, you know, I was quite amazed when, at a holiday party last
> year, the hosts showed us a couple episodes of "Only Fools and
> Horses" (Mark's from Ireland and has a heavy Irish accent most of the
> time) and they gave us the caveat that the accents might be difficult to
> understand, but we didn't need subtitles and understood most of the
> cultural jokes as well as not having a problem with the accents. :-)
>

 From what I can remember, the speech in "Only Fools and Horses" is 
pretty Standard English, English. A bit of a South London accent, I admit.
It’s not the American accent that is troublesome, it is the divergence 
from English grammar that makes American TV shows difficult to 
understand. Give it another 20 years and we will be speaking like you do 
now. ;-)


> I think they were slightly surprised that we didn't have any problems at
> all understanding what was being said.  :-)
>

I'm not. But a t'ick Oirish voice can be hard on the ear. Listen to any 
Dubliners album. :-)

-- 
Regards
     Stephen


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 16:58:22
Message: <4d375e7e@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 21:45:05 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 19/01/2011 7:45 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>>> No wonder we need sub-titles for American TV. ;-)
>>
>> Hehehehe, you know, I was quite amazed when, at a holiday party last
>> year, the hosts showed us a couple episodes of "Only Fools and Horses"
>> (Mark's from Ireland and has a heavy Irish accent most of the time) and
>> they gave us the caveat that the accents might be difficult to
>> understand, but we didn't need subtitles and understood most of the
>> cultural jokes as well as not having a problem with the accents. :-)
>>
>>
>  From what I can remember, the speech in "Only Fools and Horses" is
> pretty Standard English, English. A bit of a South London accent, I
> admit. 

Yeah, it's that South London accent that some over here have real 
difficulty with.  RP not so much, but the further from London you get 
(especially northward), the more difficulty some Americans have at 
understanding it.

Until you get to Glasgow, that is, at which point even people raised in 
Glasgow have trouble with the accent, that is. ;-)

> It’s not the American accent that is troublesome, it is the
> divergence from English grammar that makes American TV shows difficult
> to understand. Give it another 20 years and we will be speaking like you
> do now. ;-)

Oh, yes, I absolutely can see that - but that's because it's American 
grammar, not English grammar.  ;-)

At times, I'm sure native English speakers think Welsh is easier to 
understand. ;-)

>> I think they were slightly surprised that we didn't have any problems
>> at all understanding what was being said.  :-)
>>
> I'm not. But a t'ick Oirish voice can be hard on the ear. Listen to any
> Dubliners album. :-)

:-)

Mark used to teach technical courses here in the US, and I was always 
amazed to hear him teach, because his accent softened considerably in the 
classroom.  He also has a bit of a stutter, and that also vanishes when 
he's teaching material he's extremely familiar with.

There are definitions in Uxbridge English Dictionary that poke some light-
hearted fun at the "t'ick Oirish" accents that always make me laugh. :-)

Jim


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 17:09:47
Message: <4d37612b$1@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 9:58 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> Until you get to Glasgow, that is, at which point even people raised in
> Glasgow have trouble with the accent, that is.;-)

See you Jimmy, can yer mither sew? ;-)
>
>> >  It’s not the American accent that is troublesome, it is the
>> >  divergence from English grammar that makes American TV shows difficult
>> >  to understand. Give it another 20 years and we will be speaking like you
>> >  do now.;-)
> Oh, yes, I absolutely can see that - but that's because it's American
> grammar, not English grammar.;-)

Then call it American not English.

>
> At times, I'm sure native English speakers think Welsh is easier to
> understand.;-)
>

You must be joking?


> Mark used to teach technical courses here in the US, and I was always
> amazed to hear him teach, because his accent softened considerably in the
> classroom.  He also has a bit of a stutter, and that also vanishes when
> he's teaching material he's extremely familiar with.
>

Amazing what “a non-normal situation” can do for a stutter.

> There are definitions in Uxbridge English Dictionary that poke some light-
> hearted fun at the "t'ick Oirish" accents that always make me laugh.:-)
>

???

-- 
Regards
     Stephen


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 17:28:47
Message: <4d37659f@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 22:09:43 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 19/01/2011 9:58 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Until you get to Glasgow, that is, at which point even people raised in
>> Glasgow have trouble with the accent, that is.;-)
> 
> See you Jimmy, can yer mither sew? ;-)

Matter of fact, she does. ;-)

>> Oh, yes, I absolutely can see that - but that's because it's American
>> grammar, not English grammar.;-)
> 
> Then call it American not English.

I did, or didn't you notice? :-P

>> At times, I'm sure native English speakers think Welsh is easier to
>> understand.;-)
>>
> You must be joking?

Just making sure you're paying attention. ;-)

>> Mark used to teach technical courses here in the US, and I was always
>> amazed to hear him teach, because his accent softened considerably in
>> the classroom.  He also has a bit of a stutter, and that also vanishes
>> when he's teaching material he's extremely familiar with.
>>
>>
> Amazing what “a non-normal situation” can do for a stutter.

Yes, that it was.  I co-taught with him once (well, technically, we 
taught a half week each - he was the first half, I was the second), and 
I'd talk to him during the breaks and he'd be back to his normal accent, 
and then he'd wrap up the lab and start teaching again - so the students 
would notice it as well.

>> There are definitions in Uxbridge English Dictionary that poke some
>> light- hearted fun at the "t'ick Oirish" accents that always make me
>> laugh.:-)
>>
>>
> ???

In particularly, the way Irish speakers from around Dublin use a hard "T" 
for "Th" - "Third" becomes "T'ird".  I think it was Barry Cryer who 
provided a definition for "Farting" as "Irish for 'a star'".

Jim


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 17:56:07
Message: <4d376c07@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 10:28 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 22:09:43 +0000, Stephen wrote:
>
>> On 19/01/2011 9:58 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> Until you get to Glasgow, that is, at which point even people raised in
>>> Glasgow have trouble with the accent, that is.;-)
>>
>> See you Jimmy, can yer mither sew? ;-)
>
> Matter of fact, she does. ;-)
>

Then get her to stitch this...

>>> Oh, yes, I absolutely can see that - but that's because it's American
>>> grammar, not English grammar.;-)
>>
>> Then call it American not English.
>
> I did, or didn't you notice? :-P
>

Here;s me thinking you said *Americans*

>>> At times, I'm sure native English speakers think Welsh is easier to
>>> understand.;-)
>>>
>> You must be joking?
>
> Just making sure you're paying attention. ;-)
>

Having worked at Dwr Cymru for a year, I pay attention. :-)

>> Amazing what “a non-normal situation” can do for a stutter.
>
> Yes, that it was.  I co-taught with him once (well, technically, we
> taught a half week each - he was the first half, I was the second), and
> I'd talk to him during the breaks and he'd be back to his normal accent,
> and then he'd wrap up the lab and start teaching again - so the students
> would notice it as well.
>

I behaved similarly in Jamaica.  Speaking like "Teach" in workshops but 
like me in the office.

>>> There are definitions in Uxbridge English Dictionary that poke some
>>> light- hearted fun at the "t'ick Oirish" accents that always make me
>>> laugh.:-)
>>>
>>>
>> ???
>
> In particularly, the way Irish speakers from around Dublin use a hard "T"
> for "Th" - "Third" becomes "T'ird".  I think it was Barry Cryer who
> provided a definition for "Farting" as "Irish for 'a star'".
>

Again, they do that in Jamaica. Probably picked it up from the Irish 
"Indentured servants" who were transported there (and to Barbados) by 
Cromwell's son.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen


Post a reply to this message

From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 18:21:00
Message: <4d3771dc$1@news.povray.org>
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 22:56:02 +0000, Stephen wrote:

>>> See you Jimmy, can yer mither sew? ;-)
>>
>> Matter of fact, she does. ;-)
>>
> Then get her to stitch this...

LOL

>>>> Oh, yes, I absolutely can see that - but that's because it's American
>>>> grammar, not English grammar.;-)
>>>
>>> Then call it American not English.
>>
>> I did, or didn't you notice? :-P
>>
> Here;s me thinking you said *Americans*

Well, you quoted me saying it. ;-)

>>>> At times, I'm sure native English speakers think Welsh is easier to
>>>> understand.;-)
>>>>
>>> You must be joking?
>>
>> Just making sure you're paying attention. ;-)
>>
> Having worked at Dwr Cymru for a year, I pay attention. :-)

LOL, I thought I remembered you saying something about having worked in 
Wales at one point, so I knew it would get your attention. ;-)

> I behaved similarly in Jamaica.  Speaking like "Teach" in workshops but
> like me in the office.

I'm sure that confused people at first. :-)

>> In particularly, the way Irish speakers from around Dublin use a hard
>> "T" for "Th" - "Third" becomes "T'ird".  I think it was Barry Cryer who
>> provided a definition for "Farting" as "Irish for 'a star'".
>>
> Again, they do that in Jamaica. Probably picked it up from the Irish
> "Indentured servants" who were transported there (and to Barbados) by
> Cromwell's son.

Quite possibly.

Jim


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 19:05:56
Message: <4d377c64$1@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 11:21 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 22:56:02 +0000, Stephen wrote:
>
>>>> See you Jimmy, can yer mither sew? ;-)
>>>
>>> Matter of fact, she does. ;-)
>>>
>> Then get her to stitch this...
>
> LOL
>

There, there. I'll give you a Glasgow kiss. :-P


> Well, you quoted me saying it. ;-)
>

Did you read my reply to Andrew?

> LOL, I thought I remembered you saying something about having worked in
> Wales at one point, so I knew it would get your attention. ;-)
>

Two points. About 40 years ago I worked in a holiday camp in Pwllheli. 
And of course St lived in Colwyn Bay. :-(

>> I behaved similarly in Jamaica.  Speaking like "Teach" in workshops but
>> like me in the office.
>
> I'm sure that confused people at first. :-)
>

No, it was expected. o_O

>> Again, they do that in Jamaica. Probably picked it up from the Irish
>> "Indentured servants" who were transported there (and to Barbados) by
>> Cromwell's son.
>
> Quite possibly.
>

We've got a lot of history.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen


Post a reply to this message

From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 20:39:03
Message: <4d379237$1@news.povray.org>
On Thu, 20 Jan 2011 00:05:52 +0000, Stephen wrote:

>> LOL
>>
> There, there. I'll give you a Glasgow kiss. :-P

I think I'll pass - I like my forehead too much. ;-)

>> Well, you quoted me saying it. ;-)
>>
>>
> Did you read my reply to Andrew?

Probably, but you know how it is with memory. ;-)

>> LOL, I thought I remembered you saying something about having worked in
>> Wales at one point, so I knew it would get your attention. ;-)
>>
> Two points. About 40 years ago I worked in a holiday camp in Pwllheli.
> And of course St lived in Colwyn Bay. :-(

I keep forgetting that you've got 20 years on me.  Shame on me, must be 
that old memory thing. :-)

>>> I behaved similarly in Jamaica.  Speaking like "Teach" in workshops
>>> but like me in the office.
>>
>> I'm sure that confused people at first. :-)
>>
> No, it was expected. o_O

Interesting.

>>> Again, they do that in Jamaica. Probably picked it up from the Irish
>>> "Indentured servants" who were transported there (and to Barbados) by
>>> Cromwell's son.
>>
>> Quite possibly.
>>
> We've got a lot of history.

So I've noticed.  Sadly, the immigration policies don't look to be 
conducive to us moving over in the near future, so we're actually 
contemplating a move to Oregon (since we have friends out there who have 
said they want us to be near them, at least for a while <g>).

Jim


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From: Patrick Elliott
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 19 Jan 2011 22:29:08
Message: <4d37ac04$1@news.povray.org>
On 1/19/2011 2:12 AM, Invisible wrote:
>> But, in general, books tend to have very sharp text, no blurring, and
>> very little glare, or light induced strain.
>
> I can't say anything about any other e-readers (I don't even know of the
> existence of any), but the Kindle's display really is quite nice. It's
> arguably clearer than the actual paper book I'm currently reading, since
> it doesn't have paper grain. You'd have to stare very hard indeed to see
> the pixels.
Read a few reviews on some of them. The Kindle and IPad seem to have 
pretty clean text. A few of the others... not so much.

-- 
void main () {
   If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models, 
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>


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From: scott
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 20 Jan 2011 03:47:47
Message: <4d37f6b3@news.povray.org>
> Most people that I know feel the same way - I bought the (CD, ePub,
> whatever), so if I want to convert it to something more convenient for my
> own personal use, that's my business.

Sure, but in a lot of cases people incorrectly believe they are doing no 
harm by removing the DRM - I hear it all the time.  They feel hard done 
by because they can't use the content on another device, yet fail to 
understand that it's precisely those limitations that has even allowed 
them to get the content in the first place (prime example BBC iPlayer or 
at the extreme hiring DVDs).

> Where it becomes a problem is when I convert it to a format that's
> convenient and then share it with someone who should buy their own copy.

You seem to be under the illusion that if you buy a copy of something it 
gives you the right to use it as often as you want on as many devices as 
you want.  If the license says otherwise that's incorrect.

> The problem, really, is how to draw the line about what's right and wrong
> from an ethical point of view (from the publisher's point of view).  Is
> it ethically right to make people pay multiple times for the same digital
> content?  Maybe yes, maybe no, depending on the circumstances.

That's the publisher's right to choose how they sell their content and 
the business model they use.  It's your choice whether to buy in to it 
or not.  But understand in many cases when you buy DRM protected content 
you are not buying the right to unlimited personal use.  If you were 
then you'd likely have to pay more.

> Just because something's legal doesn't mean it's *right*.  That's with
> civil disobedience is all about.

Sure, and of course I don't agree with all forms of DRM, but publishers 
tend to like to spend a lot of money of lawyers.


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From: scott
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 20 Jan 2011 03:55:37
Message: <4d37f889$1@news.povray.org>
> Interesting. I was told that all LCDs always operate at 60 Hz and it's
> impossible to change.

That's just a property of the driver electronics, you can change the 
voltages sent to the physical LC at any rate you want (of course there 
is some upper limit of what is useful due to the response time).  The 
response time nowadays (at room temperature) is generally fast enough 
for several multiples of 60 Hz to work fine.

 > Similarly, I thought CRTs had specific
> synchronisation circuitry that only works over a very narrow band of
> sync rates.

I'm sure my CRT worked from 60 Hz up to 120 Hz.  IIRC there was a limit 
on vsync and hsync, so at 120 Hz vsync you could only use very low 
resolutions.

> Well, yeah, there is that too. I'm not aware of any video signal system
> that allows faster framerates.

Well the infrastructure is surely still in the software and hardware (at 
least with analogue VGA) for higher framerates as it is commonly used by 
CRTs.  Also reading the wikipedia page on DVI it seems there is no limit 
for the framerate, only the overall bandwidth in single-link (it gives 
1920x1200x120Hz as a valid mode for dual-link).

Just need someone to build a monitor that accepts something other than 
60 Hz!


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 20 Jan 2011 04:08:35
Message: <4d37fb93$1@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 08:47 PM, nemesis wrote:

> Andrew's eyes don't seem to notice any difference
> between 480p and 1080p

Perhaps you mean 480i?

And besides, I didn't say there was *no* difference. I just said the 
difference was rather small. Certainly not worth paying tens of 
thousands of pounds for.

> but I'm sure the bizarrely bigger-than-life
> smoothness would be difficult to ignore...

Increasing the framerate does sound like one hell of a good idea. On the 
other hand, they'll probably just increase it from 50 Hz to 55 Hz and 
call it "extreme motion" or something. :-P


Post a reply to this message

From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 20 Jan 2011 04:10:37
Message: <4d37fc0d@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 06:29 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 18:16:42 -0800, Neeum Zawan wrote:
>
>> Well, I'd think having access to a studio really helps when you're
>> recording a song...
>
> Depends on the quality you're looking for, but yes, having the right
> tools helps (in both cases).

I'd suggest having the right technicians helps more. Mix engineering is 
non-trivial, whether you have the right equipment or not.


Post a reply to this message

From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 20 Jan 2011 04:12:03
Message: <4d37fc63$1@news.povray.org>
>> Ah - so you're familiar with Pink Floyd then? :-)
>
> I actually quite like Pink Floyd. :-)

So do I. ;-)

Of course, as soon as you say that, you then have to clarify /which/ 
Pink Floyd. They've been through so many different stages in their 
career. Are we talking about the fuzzy hippie stage? Or the 80s rock 
stage? Or the 90s manic depressive stage? Or...


Post a reply to this message

From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 20 Jan 2011 04:25:38
Message: <4d37ff92$1@news.povray.org>
On 19/01/2011 06:35 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 09:30:58 +0000, scott wrote:
>
>> Assuming people would follow the terms in the license agreement doesn't
>> seem bad or faulty to me.
>
> The bad assumption is that people will buy it, so then they write the
> license agreement to reflect that bad assumption.
>
> It's a faulty premise, and not really my problem that they made a bad
> assumption and based their business model on it.
>
> Most people that I know feel the same way - I bought the (CD, ePub,
> whatever), so if I want to convert it to something more convenient for my
> own personal use, that's my business.
>
> Where it becomes a problem is when I convert it to a format that's
> convenient and then share it with someone who should buy their own copy.
>
> The problem, really, is how to draw the line about what's right and wrong
> from an ethical point of view.

The way I see it, there's two sides to this DRM stuff.

On the one hand, publishers (of all kinds of content) stand to lose 
insane amounts of money due to digital data being trivially copyable and 
distributable. They need to figure out a way around that.

On the other hand, some publishers seem to be trying to use DRM as an 
excuse to charge people more money for what they used to be able to do 
for free. Or to force them to use one specific product. Or to spam them 
with adverts. Or to secretly track their activities. Or generally to do 
a whole bunch of things which have nothing to do with the nominal 
objective of "preventing piracy".

I'm not sure how the situation will resolve itself. I'm hoping that 
legislation will eventually be passed to prevent publishers doing evil 
stuff like the Sony rootkit fiasco. (Don't hold your breath...) But 
fundamentally, digital information is trivially copyable and 
distributable. That makes it difficult to see how you could make a 
profit out of it, unless you assume that a very high percentage of users 
will voluntarily pay money for it even though they don't have to. I'm 
not sure that's a good assumption.

Which is worrying, since most of this content is ludicrously expensive 
to produce in the first place. If there isn't going to be any profit, 
nobody will do it any more. And that would be tragic...


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From: nemesis
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: 20 Jan 2011 08:00:00
Message: <web.4d3831b45dfdca389a1bcfb90@news.povray.org>
Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> On 19/01/2011 08:47 PM, nemesis wrote:
>
> > Andrew's eyes don't seem to notice any difference
> > between 480p and 1080p
>
> Perhaps you mean 480i?

Yes.

>
> And besides, I didn't say there was *no* difference. I just said the
> difference was rather small. Certainly not worth paying tens of
> thousands of pounds for.

They're now the standard TV sets and you don't pay much more than what you used
to pay for.

> > but I'm sure the bizarrely bigger-than-life
> > smoothness would be difficult to ignore...
>
> Increasing the framerate does sound like one hell of a good idea. On the
> other hand, they'll probably just increase it from 50 Hz to 55 Hz and
> call it "extreme motion" or something. :-P

Nope, it's 120hz and very visible a difference.  Well, at least for people
without blurry eyes who can see a crystal clear increase in quality from 480 to
1080 or even 768...


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