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I read some discussion where it was mentioned something along the lines
that everything in the Universe is energy (the context being that there's
nothing else in the Universe than energy).
This got me thinking: The entire Universe is not pure energy. There are
things that are *not* energy. So what are these things?
For one, timespace, ie. the geometry of the Universe is not energy.
It's the "container" where the energy in the Universe resides, in other
words it *contains* energy, it's not energy in itself.
But are there other things in this Universe which are not energy?
What about the four fundamental interactions? Are they energy, or are
they some property of the Universe distinct from energy? (These fundamental
interactions might not *appear* at all if there were no energy in the
Universe, but that doesn't mean that the fundamental interactions *are*
energy, only that they *act* on energy.)
How about information? Energy can be arranged such that one can define
the amount of information contained in a system because of that arrangment
("information" is actually a pretty well-defined concept of physics).
Without energy there couldn't be information, but that doesn't mean that
information is energy, only that energy is used to construct information.
Information is certainly a physical entity because it can produce causality
chains and such. (Another point which would indicate that information is not
energy is that energy cannot be created nor destroyed, but information can.)
What else?
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> For one, timespace, ie. the geometry of the Universe is not energy.
> It's the "container" where the energy in the Universe resides, in other
> words it *contains* energy, it's not energy in itself.
I don't think science has determined this. GR is background-free, so in a
sense, space-time is a relationship between other things and nothing more.
It's not a "something" but an effect.
> What about the four fundamental interactions? Are they energy, or are
> they some property of the Universe distinct from energy?
They're energy in the sense that they're mass in the sense that they're
mediated by particles (assuming one finds gravitons, at least). The electric
force is photons interacting with electrons, for example, both of which are
energy.
> (Another point which would indicate that information is not
> energy is that energy cannot be created nor destroyed, but information can.)
Actually, there's good reason to think information cannot be destroyed.
That's what lead to postulating the holographic principle and hawking
radiation. The basic problem is that the QM theories preserve certain kinds
of information that GR does not, so matter falling into a black hole
violates quantum mechanics in a very fundamental way.
I'm not sure I can go any farther than that. I'm not even certain you're
mistaken in saying information isn't energy, spacetime isn't energy, etc.
Just commenting on the bits I've vaguely understood. I can't really say I
understand it well enough to say yes or no on any of it. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Serving Suggestion:
"Don't serve this any more. It's awful."
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http://xkcd.com/224/
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after finally watching the deep zoom mandelbrot video, I'm sure it's made of
fractals...
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Warp wrote:
> I read some discussion where it was mentioned something along the lines
> that everything in the Universe is energy (the context being that there's
> nothing else in the Universe than energy).
>
> This got me thinking: The entire Universe is not pure energy. There are
> things that are *not* energy. So what are these things?
>
As a nice analogy there are surreal numbers - created
(almost) entirely out of the void (an empty set).
> What else?
pure consciousness?
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On 11/2/2010 2:59 PM, Warp wrote:
>
> What else?
>
Entropy :D
--
~Mike
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Darren New <dne### [at] san rrcom> wrote:
> > What about the four fundamental interactions? Are they energy, or are
> > they some property of the Universe distinct from energy?
> They're energy in the sense that they're mass in the sense that they're
> mediated by particles (assuming one finds gravitons, at least). The electric
> force is photons interacting with electrons, for example, both of which are
> energy.
Isn't that like saying "sound is matter"? Sound is transported by matter,
sound isn't matter in itself. Sound is a phenomenon.
Likewise just because the fundamental forces are mediated by energy
doesn't necessarily mean that the forces are energy.
I'm not saying the fundamental forces are not a form of energy, I'm simply
wondering if they are (because I'm not a phycisist and I don't know).
> > (Another point which would indicate that information is not
> > energy is that energy cannot be created nor destroyed, but information can.)
> Actually, there's good reason to think information cannot be destroyed.
> That's what lead to postulating the holographic principle and hawking
> radiation. The basic problem is that the QM theories preserve certain kinds
> of information that GR does not, so matter falling into a black hole
> violates quantum mechanics in a very fundamental way.
I think in physics "information" is defined in terms of entropy, and as
we know, entropy varies.
--
- Warp
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bart <bar### [at] homeorg> wrote:
> > What else?
> pure consciousness?
What is that? How do you define it? How do you measure it?
--
- Warp
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Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/2/2010 2:59 PM, Warp wrote:
> >
> > What else?
> >
> Entropy :D
If I'm not completely mistaken, information (in physics) is defined in
terms of entropy, so they are just describing the same property of energy.
--
- Warp
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On 11/3/2010 10:07 AM, Warp wrote:
> Mike Raiford<"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/2/2010 2:59 PM, Warp wrote:
>
>>>
>>> What else?
>>>
>
>> Entropy :D
>
> If I'm not completely mistaken, information (in physics) is defined in
> terms of entropy, so they are just describing the same property of energy.
>
That's what I was thinking ... A bit tongue-in-cheek.
--
~Mike
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