Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> writes:

>> Honest question. The things preventing me from buying one are worry over
>> how long I can keep any books I buy, and because I've shifted to
>> libraries anyway.
>
> Well, that's the reason I didn't get a Kindle, honestly - with the whole 
> fiasco Amazon had over 1984, I prefer something where I can back up my 
> books manually (which I can do with the Nook).

My concern is about the DRM, as well. Having the file around 30 years
from now is no use if I can't read it.

Post a reply to this message

Neeum Zawan wrote:
> My concern is about the DRM, as well. Having the file around 30 years
> from now is no use if I can't read it.

That was what stopped me from getting a kindle or whatever when they first 
came out, yes. But if I want the book again 10 years from now, I'll just buy 
it again.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Quoth the raven:
        Need S'Mores!

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On 25/08/2010 10:52 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 10:28:28 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>> On 24/08/2010 8:32 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> Ah, I wish I was rich.;-)
>>>
>>>
>> Would it help if I called you Rich(ard) ;-)
>
> Nope, 'cause that's one of my older brothers. ;-)
>

Sibling envy? I wouldn’t have thought it. ;-)

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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On 26/08/2010 12:05 AM, Darren New wrote:
> I haven't been bothered by that, but then I don't really read with it
> plugged in.

That is one disadvantage with the Sony. You can't use it when it is 
plugged into the usb port. Fortunately you can charge it with a power 
supply and read at the same time.

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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Stephen wrote:
> Fortunately you can charge it with a power 
> supply and read at the same time.

Given the battery lasts for like 30 hours of reading and charges in 2 or 3, 
I can't imagine this is actually a problem I'd ever face.


-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Quoth the raven:
        Need S'Mores!

Post a reply to this message

On 26/08/2010 3:51 PM, Darren New wrote:
> Stephen wrote:
>> Fortunately you can charge it with a power supply and read at the same
>> time.
>
> Given the battery lasts for like 30 hours of reading and charges in 2 or
> 3, I can't imagine this is actually a problem I'd ever face.
>
>
Nor me but my wife (who is ill) can read for 18 hours a day.

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Stephen wrote:
> Nor me but my wife (who is ill) can read for 18 hours a day.

Fair enough. I guess if you fail to plug it in before you sleep it could be 
problematic.  Sorry to hear about your wife.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Quoth the raven:
        Need S'Mores!

Post a reply to this message

On 26/08/2010 5:04 PM, Darren New wrote:
> Stephen wrote:
>> Nor me but my wife (who is ill) can read for 18 hours a day.
>
> Fair enough. I guess if you fail to plug it in before you sleep it could
> be problematic. Sorry to hear about your wife.
>

Thanks, me too. It’s Trigeminal Neuralgia, so anything to take her mind 
off it.

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 26-8-2010 0:55, Darren New wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>> On 24-8-2010 19:47, Darren New wrote:
>>> Kevin Wampler wrote:
>>>> Thanks!  Both this and Jim's replies have been very useful. 
>>>
>>> As I say, send me a complex PDF and I'll take a photo of the screen 
>>> so you can see how it looks.
>>
>> what about 3D pdf? The only one I have here ATM is too big to post
> 
> WTF is a 3D pdf?

the current pdf (from version 7 or 8) allows you to have 3D objects 
embedded in it. We use it a.o. to have 3D reconstructions in the 
supplemental data for (mainly) embryological papers.

I though the example I had was about 10MB it turns out it is only 2.4
what shall I do with it?
post it here?
put it on my website and give a selective group the link?
put it somewhere else where everybody can download? (where?)

Post a reply to this message

andrel wrote:
> the current pdf (from version 7 or 8) allows you to have 3D objects 
> embedded in it.

I was completely unaware of any such thing.

> I though the example I had was about 10MB it turns out it is only 2.4
> what shall I do with it?

If you want to email it to me, I'll put it on my Kindle and watch it churn. 
:-)  Is that the point of offering?


-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Quoth the raven:
        Need S'Mores!

Post a reply to this message

On 26-8-2010 21:37, Darren New wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>> the current pdf (from version 7 or 8) allows you to have 3D objects 
>> embedded in it.
> 
> I was completely unaware of any such thing.

you are not the only one. Only some journals allow this kind of 
supplemental data. We would like more of those. It can really be a 
useful addition to a paper.
Part of the problem is that almost nobody realizes that the possibility 
is there, often without even changing any policy, as the supplemental 
data (and the papers themselves) are in pdf format anyway.

>> I though the example I had was about 10MB it turns out it is only 2.4
>> what shall I do with it?
> 
> If you want to email it to me, I'll put it on my Kindle and watch it 
> churn. :-)  

done

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:08:07 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 25/08/2010 10:52 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 10:28:28 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> On 24/08/2010 8:32 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> Ah, I wish I was rich.;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Would it help if I called you Rich(ard) ;-)
>>
>> Nope, 'cause that's one of my older brothers. ;-)
>>
>>
> Sibling envy? I wouldn’t have thought it. ;-)

LOL

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:45:10 +0200, andrel wrote:

> On 26-8-2010 21:37, Darren New wrote:
>> andrel wrote:
>>> the current pdf (from version 7 or 8) allows you to have 3D objects
>>> embedded in it.
>> 
>> I was completely unaware of any such thing.
> 
> you are not the only one. Only some journals allow this kind of
> supplemental data. We would like more of those. It can really be a
> useful addition to a paper.
> Part of the problem is that almost nobody realizes that the possibility
> is there, often without even changing any policy, as the supplemental
> data (and the papers themselves) are in pdf format anyway.
> 
>>> I though the example I had was about 10MB it turns out it is only 2.4
>>> what shall I do with it?
>> 
>> If you want to email it to me, I'll put it on my Kindle and watch it
>> churn. :-)
> 
> done

Tried it here - it opens, but the 3D portion of the screen is just black 
with the built-in viewer.  There's an alternative PDF viewer available 
for the rooted Nook, so I'll try that later on today.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

andrel wrote:
>> If you want to email it to me, I'll put it on my Kindle and watch it 
>> churn. :-)  
> 
> done

Mine says it can't be opened "due to embedded features not yet supported by 
Kindle."  It doesn't even try, or display the textual part.

It says "(SECURED)" in the title bar of the PC window, tho, so I'm not sure 
if it's just the 3D or the copy protection.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Quoth the raven:
        Need S'Mores!

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On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:01:32 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> That's interesting, I had been led to believe that with Kindle, you
>> were more or less at the mercy of Amazon (probably because of the whole
>> 1984 thing).
> 
> Technologically, yes, you are. But it's not something they're going to
> do, or at least so they say.  In the case of 1984, it was because they
> weren't authorized to actually sell that copy. I.e., they were violating
> copyrights by selling you the book that way.

Yeah, but if they'd done that with a paper book, they'd not have come 
into my home, taken it and left me the money.  That's vaguely what they 
did, though, with the eBook.  They needed (IMHO) to make it right in a 
similar fashion rather than taking advantage of the fact that they 
*could* just "unsell" it electronically.  Just because you can do 
something, doesn't mean you should.  It created a lot of uncertainty 
about eBooks.

>> The idea of the retailer being able to 'unsell' something to me really
>> turned me off of buying one of their devices - in fact, if I had won
>> one in a drawing, I'd have sold it because of that...
> 
> Ehn. You have to balance it out. I have lots of worries in my life.
> Amazon pulling a book off my kindle and giving me the money back so I
> can go buy it on paper is low on my list of worries.

It's nonexistent on my list of worries.  Yes, it's a balancing act, but I 
generally don't give money to people who do things I don't agree with, 
even if they correct it.  I also don't give money to Best Buy because 
they treated a return I wanted to make with suspicion and called me a 
thief - just because I wanted a DVD that actually *worked*.  But I've 
been over that story.

> I was reluctant for a long time to buy DRMed books, until I realized
> I'll likely always have the non-DRMed version available if I really want
> it. I can pick which books I'll buy cheaper with less access and which
> books I'll spend more on to be able to keep for 20+ years.

Yes, that's one of the things I've considered as well.  Still, right now, 
most of what I'm reading on my Nook is from Project Gutenberg.

> That book on C# 4.0?  The likelihood of me having to refer to that in 3
> years is really, really low.  :-)
> 
>> Not that I think Bezos didn't ultimately do the right thing, but
>> really, something like that should've never happened in the first
>> place.
> 
> True, and he acknowledged that *and* gave people back the book as well.
> Not sure what more you could ask for.

Not doing it in the first place.  Yes, he can't undo what's been done, 
the best he can do is correct it, and the best we can do is hope that he 
has learned from it.  But it troubles me that businesses make decisions 
that really on the surface should be clearly the wrong way to approach 
things and then deal with it as a PR issue, when clearly it's not a PR 
issue, but a decision-making process issue.

I mean really - who would think that you could take something away from 
someone that they had paid for, annotated, and used and NOT have 
consumers complain about it?  Someone *really* didn't put their thinking 
cap on - or did and said "if we generate some bad publicity, we can 
follow it with a PR campaign that ends us up ahead?" - which I think is 
even more slimy if it was actually *planned* that way.  I'm not a fan of 
manufactured "ooops, we're sorry" situations that are used for the 
purpose of generating "buzz" and "positive PR".

> Amazon's licensing at least isn't obnoxious. You can put it on up to
> five or six devices simultaneously, and if you delete it off your
> kindle, it frees up a license for use somewhere else. (Assuming you
> eventually turn on the radio, of course.) 

That's actually pretty nice, I didn't know that.

> And there's readers for pretty
> much every popular electronic device except the direct competition.

Honestly, I think it would be in the best interests of eReader 
manufacturers not to lock consumers in.  You see this with gaming 
consoles as well - someone wants a particular game, they've got to 
purchase a particular game console if there's an exclusivity clause in 
their contracts.  DRM?  Not a fan of it, but if it's not an encumberance 
to me as a consumer, I'll live with it or I'll find a way to strip it off 
what I've purchased.  But vendor lock-in is something I'm really not a 
fan of - it says "we know we're not as good as the competition, so we'll 
make it impossible for you to leave us".  With eBook readers, once you 
commit to one and start buying from that store, you're pretty much stuck 
for life unless you want to *buy it again*.  That's also a reason why I'm 
not a fan of the music industry - RIAA wants consumers to purchase the 
same content multiple times if they want multiple formats.  I'm not 
paying for the format, I'm paying for the content.  If I want to rip a CD 
to an MP3 to listen on my iPod, that's up to me - I shouldn't be required 
to purchase another copy in MP3 format.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 19:28:19 -0700, Neeum Zawan wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> writes:
> 
>>> Honest question. The things preventing me from buying one are worry
>>> over how long I can keep any books I buy, and because I've shifted to
>>> libraries anyway.
>>
>> Well, that's the reason I didn't get a Kindle, honestly - with the
>> whole fiasco Amazon had over 1984, I prefer something where I can back
>> up my books manually (which I can do with the Nook).
> 
> My concern is about the DRM, as well. Having the file around 30 years
> from now is no use if I can't read it.

It's actually not hard to strip it (so I'm told).

Jim

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On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:05:19 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Already does.
> 
> Unsurprising! :-)
> 
>> I found it easy to get used to fairly quickly myself.
> 
> Yep, could be. But the touch-screen where you weren't actually touching
> the thing you were interested in threw me.

That took me about a day of normal usage to get past - I had kept trying 
to turn pages using the eInk screen.  When something doesn't work,  you 
learn fast. ;-)

> Or, as my brother said, "I got an iPad, because it has a touch screen." 
> "My
>   Kindle doesn't have a touch-screen, which is why my wife's
>   fingerprints
> are all over the screen."

I tried the iPad - found it too awkward to use for reading books - it's 
physically too heavy for me to use in that way.
 
>> Another *huge*
>> advantage is that many e-books can be viewed in their entirety if you
>> go to a B&N physical store - for up to an hour a day.
> 
> That's a pretty slick marketing move.

Yes, and something that Kindle just can't do since they don't have 
physical stores.  Since most B&N stores have a Starbuck's (or Starbuck's 
lookalike in them), it really ties together nicely.

>> And free wireless at
>> places with AT&T wifi (if you don't have the 3G version, which I don't)
>> is pretty cool.  Like Kindle, with the 3G option, you don't have to pay
>> anything extra for access (the device just costs $50 more, and I have
>> wifi pretty much everywhere I go these days).
> 
> It was helpful on my trip to germany. The hotel wanted like $100/week
> for wifi, but I found out the Kindle will do 3G web browsing for free,
> so for the couple of "arrived safely" sorts of emails I wanted to send,
> it worked out with webmail just fine.  (My phone isn't GSM, ya see.)

The thing I'm wondering is if the 3G option is just a special MicroSD 
card, it might be possible to upgrade at some point.  Either way doesn't 
bother me, if I were going overseas, the 3G option is only supported in 
the US anyways AFAIK (it's tied to AT&T) - but most places I'd travel 
outside the US I'd have company-paid access to the 'net, or would be in 
places with a wifi option.

>> I do wish the USB cable was longer - I'm using an extension with mine.
> 
> I bought a second cable to leave plugged into my computer all the time,
> running under the desk and all that. Happily, it's at least a standard
> USB cable.

The Nook uses a micro USB adapter, but I found the extension works well.  
5' isn't a short cable, it's just not quite long enough for charging 
while reading in bed.

>> also wish the USB port wasn't on the bottom of the device.
> 
> I haven't been bothered by that, but then I don't really read with it
> plugged in.

I generally don't either - I've been working out the battery usage, and 
find that if I leave it in "Airplane mode", the battery usage is much 
more predictable.  When turned off, it's actually just sleeping, so 
there's some battery usage when it's not fully powered down, and they 
don't recommend powering it down.

Today is the end of the second week (and return period) for it, and I'm 
still using it every day, so seems like a good investment. :-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:
> They needed (IMHO) to make it right in a 
> similar fashion rather than taking advantage of the fact that they 
> *could* just "unsell" it electronically.

Which they did, yes. I mean, after the mistake, they gave the books back, 
gave you money, and wrote into their contracts they wouldn't do it again. 
That seems pretty upstanding compared to a lot of places.

 >  Just because you can do
> something, doesn't mean you should.  It created a lot of uncertainty 
> about eBooks.

Indeed.

>> True, and he acknowledged that *and* gave people back the book as well.
>> Not sure what more you could ask for.
> 
> Not doing it in the first place.  Yes, he can't undo what's been done, 
> the best he can do is correct it, and the best we can do is hope that he 
> has learned from it.  But it troubles me that businesses make decisions 
> that really on the surface should be clearly the wrong way to approach 
> things and then deal with it as a PR issue, when clearly it's not a PR 
> issue, but a decision-making process issue.

It sounds like the lawyers got into it first, actually.  I wouldn't be 
surprised if there was no policy in place to handle such an event, or if the 
policy hadn't been reviewed by anyone other than the lawyers.

> Honestly, I think it would be in the best interests of eReader 
> manufacturers not to lock consumers in.  You see this with gaming 
> consoles as well - someone wants a particular game, they've got to 
> purchase a particular game console if there's an exclusivity clause in 
> their contracts. 

Kindle is, amusingly, doing just the opposite. You can get like 30% of the 
sales of your book, or you can get 70% the sales of your book if you don't 
rip off Kindle users or lock them into a specific format.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Quoth the raven:
        Need S'Mores!

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:
> That took me about a day of normal usage to get past - I had kept trying 
> to turn pages using the eInk screen.  When something doesn't work,  you 
> learn fast. ;-)

Yeah. And the delays in the UI are at least consistent, so they're easy to 
get used to.

> I tried the iPad - found it too awkward to use for reading books - it's 
> physically too heavy for me to use in that way.

I just played with it for 10 minutes in an Apple store, noticing how nice 
the display was and all.

> The thing I'm wondering is if the 3G option is just a special MicroSD 
> card, it might be possible to upgrade at some point.  

I guess if you want to crack the case open or something... :-)

> bother me, if I were going overseas, the 3G option is only supported in 
> the US anyways AFAIK (it's tied to AT&T) 

The Kindle worked fine for me in Germany. Amazon charged a nominal fee for 
using it for magazines, but no additional for books or web browsing.

> The Nook uses a micro USB adapter, but I found the extension works well.  
> 5' isn't a short cable, it's just not quite long enough for charging 
> while reading in bed.

Yeah. I don't know offhand how long the kindle one is, but the power adaptor 
has the female host connector onit, so you could put as long a cable on it 
as you wanted.

> I generally don't either - I've been working out the battery usage, and 
> find that if I leave it in "Airplane mode", the battery usage is much 
> more predictable.  When turned off, it's actually just sleeping, so 
> there's some battery usage when it's not fully powered down, and they 
> don't recommend powering it down.

Yeah. I'm leaving mine on now just to see. The wireless definitely drains 
the battery faster.  The kindle has "sleep" mode and "off" mode, and it 
still runs the wireless (and probably other background tasks, like the 
search index builder and such) in sleep mode, but not in off mode.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Quoth the raven:
        Need S'Mores!

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> writes:

> Neeum Zawan wrote:
>> My concern is about the DRM, as well. Having the file around 30 years
>> from now is no use if I can't read it.
>
> That was what stopped me from getting a kindle or whatever when they
> first came out, yes. But if I want the book again 10 years from now,
> I'll just buy it again.

If it's available. 

When I last moved, I was planning to get rid of a number of fiction
books by well known authors. On a whim, I did a search, and found that
quite a few of those were now out of print. Lots and lots of used
copies, but it made me uneasy.

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> writes:

> Yeah, but if they'd done that with a paper book, they'd not have come 
> into my home, taken it and left me the money.  That's vaguely what they 
> did, though, with the eBook.  They needed (IMHO) to make it right in a 
> similar fashion rather than taking advantage of the fact that they 
> *could* just "unsell" it electronically.  Just because you can do 
> something, doesn't mean you should.  It created a lot of uncertainty 
> about eBooks.

To be honest, I find the analogy with physical books somewhat
flawed. Electronic media /is/ different, and the notion of rights
differs as well. In the long run, I'm sure people's views will change
about such things, and it won't be perceived as a violation of rights.

I don't like it either, which is why I still prefer a physical copy
(mine or the library's). However, I can see a middle ground where for
certain category of items an ebook reader may be preferred.

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:06:13 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> andrel wrote:
>>> If you want to email it to me, I'll put it on my Kindle and watch it
>>> churn. :-)
>> 
>> done
> 
> Mine says it can't be opened "due to embedded features not yet supported
> by Kindle."  It doesn't even try, or display the textual part.
> 
> It says "(SECURED)" in the title bar of the PC window, tho, so I'm not
> sure if it's just the 3D or the copy protection.

That's possible as well, I've had trouble with content restrictions in 
PDF on the Nook.  When I get some time, I want to try enabling a few 
different options and see what the results are.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:35:08 -0700, Neeum Zawan wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> writes:
> 
>> Yeah, but if they'd done that with a paper book, they'd not have come
>> into my home, taken it and left me the money.  That's vaguely what they
>> did, though, with the eBook.  They needed (IMHO) to make it right in a
>> similar fashion rather than taking advantage of the fact that they
>> *could* just "unsell" it electronically.  Just because you can do
>> something, doesn't mean you should.  It created a lot of uncertainty
>> about eBooks.
> 
> To be honest, I find the analogy with physical books somewhat flawed.
> Electronic media /is/ different, and the notion of rights differs as
> well. In the long run, I'm sure people's views will change about such
> things, and it won't be perceived as a violation of rights.

Possibly, but from my point of view, I'm paying for the content, not the 
delivery mechanism.  If it was about the delivery mechanism, eBooks would 
be priced significantly less than print counterparts - with B&N, it's 
maybe a 10% difference in price.

But my usage is more for free eBooks anyways, so the pricing of the books 
doesn't matter - Gutenberg has 25K books available for free in epub 
format, and that's enough to keep me going for a while. :-)

> I don't like it either, which is why I still prefer a physical copy
> (mine or the library's). However, I can see a middle ground where for
> certain category of items an ebook reader may be preferred.

Yes, that's true.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:23:15 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> They needed (IMHO) to make it right in a similar fashion rather than
>> taking advantage of the fact that they *could* just "unsell" it
>> electronically.
> 
> Which they did, yes. I mean, after the mistake, they gave the books
> back, gave you money, and wrote into their contracts they wouldn't do it
> again. That seems pretty upstanding compared to a lot of places.

Sure.  My point is that people didn't think *first* and then act, and 
that's a troubling trend overall to me in business these days.

When I make a business decision for the business I operate, I try to look 
at it from as many perspectives as possible first and then decide what to 
do - and one of those angles that I look at is the negative PR effects.

It amazes me how much resistance I sometimes run into with that.  I've 
got something I'm working on now (that I can't go into a lot of detail 
about) where I suggested contacting a competitor about something, and now 
find myself in the position of having a much less defensible position 
because everyone said it didn't matter if we did or not.  But I think it 
does, and I'm waiting to see how it plays out once we make the 
announcement - hoping I will be right about how it plays out so maybe 
next time my concerns will be taken more seriously.

>>> True, and he acknowledged that *and* gave people back the book as
>>> well. Not sure what more you could ask for.
>> 
>> Not doing it in the first place.  Yes, he can't undo what's been done,
>> the best he can do is correct it, and the best we can do is hope that
>> he has learned from it.  But it troubles me that businesses make
>> decisions that really on the surface should be clearly the wrong way to
>> approach things and then deal with it as a PR issue, when clearly it's
>> not a PR issue, but a decision-making process issue.
> 
> It sounds like the lawyers got into it first, actually.  I wouldn't be
> surprised if there was no policy in place to handle such an event, or if
> the policy hadn't been reviewed by anyone other than the lawyers.

Quite possibly, though I think if the lawyers were involved, they'd have 
done a more thorough risk analysis.  But that's from the outside looking 
in, and the picture from the inside may well be very different from what 
the public sees.

>> Honestly, I think it would be in the best interests of eReader
>> manufacturers not to lock consumers in.  You see this with gaming
>> consoles as well - someone wants a particular game, they've got to
>> purchase a particular game console if there's an exclusivity clause in
>> their contracts.
> 
> Kindle is, amusingly, doing just the opposite. You can get like 30% of
> the sales of your book, or you can get 70% the sales of your book if you
> don't rip off Kindle users or lock them into a specific format.

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:29:25 -0700, Neeum Zawan wrote:

> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> writes:
> 
>> Neeum Zawan wrote:
>>> My concern is about the DRM, as well. Having the file around 30 years
>>> from now is no use if I can't read it.
>>
>> That was what stopped me from getting a kindle or whatever when they
>> first came out, yes. But if I want the book again 10 years from now,
>> I'll just buy it again.
> 
> If it's available.
> 
> When I last moved, I was planning to get rid of a number of fiction
> books by well known authors. On a whim, I did a search, and found that
> quite a few of those were now out of print. Lots and lots of used
> copies, but it made me uneasy.

One of the books I want to read in eBook format is an anthology of sci fi 
short stories that was edited by Greenberg and Asimov (and a couple 
others) back in 1978.  It's not available anywhere that I've found, and 
in fact the print versions are apparently considered collector's items - 
and I used to have a print copy that's now lost somewhere, maybe in a box 
in the basement, probably got tossed/sold when my mother moved out of her 
house a couple years ago.

Print copies run about $95 now.  Ouch.

Jim

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On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:29:34 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> That took me about a day of normal usage to get past - I had kept
>> trying to turn pages using the eInk screen.  When something doesn't
>> work,  you learn fast. ;-)
> 
> Yeah. And the delays in the UI are at least consistent, so they're easy
> to get used to.

Yep.

>> I tried the iPad - found it too awkward to use for reading books - it's
>> physically too heavy for me to use in that way.
> 
> I just played with it for 10 minutes in an Apple store, noticing how
> nice the display was and all.

I had about 4 hours.  The screen is too glossy (makes a great mirror, but 
if you've got an overhead light, you have to position yourself so the 
light doesn't reflect directly off the screen).  It also attracts 
fingerprints like a magnet and I'm sure after some time dust can become 
an issue.  I'd be constantly wiping the screen off.

But the thing that I found most unusable was the weight.  My tendency 
when reading books was to try to hold it in one hand, but it's just too 
heavy to do that, so then I found myself adjusting how I was sitting in 
my chair to rest it on my stomach.  Or lay it flat on the desk, which 
didn't work really well because for me it's not a natural position to 
read in.

>> The thing I'm wondering is if the 3G option is just a special MicroSD
>> card, it might be possible to upgrade at some point.
> 
> I guess if you want to crack the case open or something... :-)

Well, the MicroSD slot for expansion is easily accessible - the back can 
be removed to replace the battery and to install the card (which is 
necessary for the 'easy' way to jailbreak the device).  The front bezel 
comes off (that's how the first ones were jailbroken - remove the system 
SD card and replace the code on it).

>> bother me, if I were going overseas, the 3G option is only supported in
>> the US anyways AFAIK (it's tied to AT&T)
> 
> The Kindle worked fine for me in Germany. Amazon charged a nominal fee
> for using it for magazines, but no additional for books or web browsing.

That's cool, what kind of fee and was it per magazine?  The one magazine 
I read anymore is Linux Format, and as a subscriber I can get the issues/
articles as PDF for free.

>> The Nook uses a micro USB adapter, but I found the extension works
>> well. 5' isn't a short cable, it's just not quite long enough for
>> charging while reading in bed.
> 
> Yeah. I don't know offhand how long the kindle one is, but the power
> adaptor has the female host connector onit, so you could put as long a
> cable on it as you wanted.

Well, until cable attenuation breaks it, but for power that's not a huge 
deal.  :-)

>> I generally don't either - I've been working out the battery usage, and
>> find that if I leave it in "Airplane mode", the battery usage is much
>> more predictable.  When turned off, it's actually just sleeping, so
>> there's some battery usage when it's not fully powered down, and they
>> don't recommend powering it down.
> 
> Yeah. I'm leaving mine on now just to see. The wireless definitely
> drains the battery faster.  The kindle has "sleep" mode and "off" mode,
> and it still runs the wireless (and probably other background tasks,
> like the search index builder and such) in sleep mode, but not in off
> mode.

That may be what happened the first couple of nights - I'd go to sleep 
and it'd be at 70% power, and wake up and the battery was drained.  That 
seemed odd to me, but last night it was fine - but I was in Airplane mode.

So now I just turn that on when I don't actually need the wireless.  I 
may look for a way to script it to disable when, for example, the web 
browser isn't actively running.

Jim

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> Sure.  My point is that people didn't think *first* and then act, and 
> that's a troubling trend overall to me in business these days.

They did. They just didn't think of all of it.  It's not even clear to me 
that Bidzos was involved in the decision.

Note that I'm not saying they didn't screw up. I just don't think it's 
enough of a big deal that it's going to affect my purchasing habits. Unlike, 
for example, how the stories of the app store affect my desire to write code 
for iphones.

> Quite possibly, though I think if the lawyers were involved, they'd have 
> done a more thorough risk analysis. 

Lawyers don't do PR risk analysis. :-)

 > But that's from the outside looking
> in, and the picture from the inside may well be very different from what 
> the public sees.

Yes. That's kind of my point.

>>> Honestly, I think it would be in the best interests of eReader
>>> manufacturers not to lock consumers in.  You see this with gaming
>>> consoles as well - someone wants a particular game, they've got to
>>> purchase a particular game console if there's an exclusivity clause in
>>> their contracts.
>> Kindle is, amusingly, doing just the opposite. You can get like 30% of
>> the sales of your book, or you can get 70% the sales of your book if you
>> don't rip off Kindle users or lock them into a specific format.
> 
> I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here.

I'm saying that Amazon has two contracts for you publishing books on the 
Kindle. The usual one, where you get some small percentage of the fact value 
of the book, and one where you get a surprisingly large percentage of the 
face value if you're not a dick about it. I.e., if you charge less than 
physical delivery, don't lock the book to a specific platform, don't defer 
the electronic publishing until people who really want it have gone out and 
bought the hardback, etc etc etc, then you get a much higher royalty rate.


-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Quoth the raven:
        Need S'Mores!

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> One of the books I want to read in eBook format is an anthology of sci fi 
> short stories that was edited by Greenberg and Asimov (and a couple 
> others) back in 1978. 


I'm rather surprised how often I run across old out-of-print books that 
someone has scanned. You might try looking around. What's it called?

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Quoth the raven:
        Need S'Mores!

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:
> I had about 4 hours.  The screen is too glossy (makes a great mirror, but 
> if you've got an overhead light, you have to position yourself so the 
> light doesn't reflect directly off the screen).  It also attracts 
> fingerprints like a magnet and I'm sure after some time dust can become 
> an issue.  I'd be constantly wiping the screen off.

Yeah. I just noted it was nice and crisp and bright. I would be surprised if 
Apple wasn't smart enough to not put overhead lights over the tables with 
the iPads on them. :-)

> Well, the MicroSD slot for expansion is easily accessible - the back can 
> be removed to replace the battery and to install the card (which is 
> necessary for the 'easy' way to jailbreak the device).  The front bezel 
> comes off (that's how the first ones were jailbroken - remove the system 
> SD card and replace the code on it).

Yeah, I'd forgotten the nook opens up like that, but now that you mention 
it...

> That's cool, what kind of fee and was it per magazine?  The one magazine 
> I read anymore is Linux Format, and as a subscriber I can get the issues/
> articles as PDF for free.

$5/week for everything.

Interestingly, when I turned on the radio in Germany, it spontaneously 
downloded a document called "Important notice on fees for travelers" or some 
such, detailing what was and was not different.

> Well, until cable attenuation breaks it, but for power that's not a huge 
> deal.  :-)

I would think that few would sell commercial USB cables too long to even run 
a USB drive over. I wonder if a sufficiently long cable makes USB drop back 
from 2.0 to 1.1 speed?

> That may be what happened the first couple of nights - I'd go to sleep 
> and it'd be at 70% power, and wake up and the battery was drained.  That 
> seemed odd to me, but last night it was fine - but I was in Airplane mode.

I'm up to the third or fourth day of reading pretty steadily and basically 
keeping it awake as much as possible, and I'm about 1/2 to 1/3 battery now, 
with the radio on. Kindle keeps it on in case you buy something online that 
gets pushed down to your device, or if you have subscriptions updating.

Once the experiment is over, I'll turn the radio back off. :-)

Also, lots of these kinds of batteries take a few charge/discharge cycles to 
reach their full potential.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Quoth the raven:
        Need S'Mores!

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http://www.treelobsters.com/2009/12/112-e-reader.html

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Quoth the raven:
        Need S'Mores!

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:31:08 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Sure.  My point is that people didn't think *first* and then act, and
>> that's a troubling trend overall to me in business these days.
> 
> They did. They just didn't think of all of it.  It's not even clear to
> me that Bidzos was involved in the decision.

The reaction to me looked like an "oh, crap, undo, undo, undo!" reaction.

> Note that I'm not saying they didn't screw up. I just don't think it's
> enough of a big deal that it's going to affect my purchasing habits.
> Unlike, for example, how the stories of the app store affect my desire
> to write code for iphones.

A fair point.

>> Quite possibly, though I think if the lawyers were involved, they'd
>> have done a more thorough risk analysis.
> 
> Lawyers don't do PR risk analysis. :-)

My experience is different - well, not PR risk, but a cost analysis is 
part of the process, and the cost of additional PR to control a situation 
is an important part.  Though in my experience as well, the lawyers (the 
good ones) will tell you what they'll be able to defend, and leave the 
decision to the business to make.

>  > But that's from the outside looking
>> in, and the picture from the inside may well be very different from
>> what the public sees.
> 
> Yes. That's kind of my point.

:-)

>>>> Honestly, I think it would be in the best interests of eReader
>>>> manufacturers not to lock consumers in.  You see this with gaming
>>>> consoles as well - someone wants a particular game, they've got to
>>>> purchase a particular game console if there's an exclusivity clause
>>>> in their contracts.
>>> Kindle is, amusingly, doing just the opposite. You can get like 30% of
>>> the sales of your book, or you can get 70% the sales of your book if
>>> you don't rip off Kindle users or lock them into a specific format.
>> 
>> I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here.
> 
> I'm saying that Amazon has two contracts for you publishing books on the
> Kindle. The usual one, where you get some small percentage of the fact
> value of the book, and one where you get a surprisingly large percentage
> of the face value if you're not a dick about it. I.e., if you charge
> less than physical delivery, don't lock the book to a specific platform,
> don't defer the electronic publishing until people who really want it
> have gone out and bought the hardback, etc etc etc, then you get a much
> higher royalty rate.

Oh, I see - that's an interesting approach.

Jim

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On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:33:00 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> One of the books I want to read in eBook format is an anthology of sci
>> fi short stories that was edited by Greenberg and Asimov (and a couple
>> others) back in 1978.
> 
> 
> I'm rather surprised how often I run across old out-of-print books that
> someone has scanned. You might try looking around. What's it called?

I looked around for it, but didn't have any luck.  It's called "100 Great 
Science Fiction Short Stories".

Jim

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On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:38:37 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> I had about 4 hours.  The screen is too glossy (makes a great mirror,
>> but if you've got an overhead light, you have to position yourself so
>> the light doesn't reflect directly off the screen).  It also attracts
>> fingerprints like a magnet and I'm sure after some time dust can become
>> an issue.  I'd be constantly wiping the screen off.
> 
> Yeah. I just noted it was nice and crisp and bright. I would be
> surprised if Apple wasn't smart enough to not put overhead lights over
> the tables with the iPads on them. :-)

Very likely; indirect lighting is generally much easier on the eyes, and 
in the office the lighting is only about 60% indirect.

>> That's cool, what kind of fee and was it per magazine?  The one
>> magazine I read anymore is Linux Format, and as a subscriber I can get
>> the issues/ articles as PDF for free.
> 
> $5/week for everything.
> 
> Interestingly, when I turned on the radio in Germany, it spontaneously
> downloded a document called "Important notice on fees for travelers" or
> some such, detailing what was and was not different.

Interesting - so "everything" is any magazine they carry that you want to 
read?

>> Well, until cable attenuation breaks it, but for power that's not a
>> huge deal.  :-)
> 
> I would think that few would sell commercial USB cables too long to even
> run a USB drive over. I wonder if a sufficiently long cable makes USB
> drop back from 2.0 to 1.1 speed?

Probably.

>> That may be what happened the first couple of nights - I'd go to sleep
>> and it'd be at 70% power, and wake up and the battery was drained. 
>> That seemed odd to me, but last night it was fine - but I was in
>> Airplane mode.
> 
> I'm up to the third or fourth day of reading pretty steadily and
> basically keeping it awake as much as possible, and I'm about 1/2 to 1/3
> battery now, with the radio on. Kindle keeps it on in case you buy
> something online that gets pushed down to your device, or if you have
> subscriptions updating.
> 
> Once the experiment is over, I'll turn the radio back off. :-)
> 
> Also, lots of these kinds of batteries take a few charge/discharge
> cycles to reach their full potential.

That's true, which is why I haven't done anything about it yet.  My 
battery came almost fully charged, but they say they're not charged, so 
we'll see how it goes.

Jim

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> I looked around for it, but didn't have any luck.  It's called "100 Great 
> Science Fiction Short Stories".

Is that the one with the white cover and green circle-like something or 
other on the cover? With all the stories just like 2 or 3 pages long?

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Quoth the raven:
        Need S'Mores!

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:
> Interesting - so "everything" is any magazine they carry that you want to 
> read?

Basically, it was $4.99 / week for subscriptions to be downloaded, $0.99/meg 
to download something of your own wirelessly (rather than the usual 
$0.15/meg), and everything else was still free (or, rather, already included 
in the cost of the book or device).


-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Quoth the raven:
        Need S'Mores!

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On 27-8-2010 5:50, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:06:13 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> 
>> andrel wrote:
>>>> If you want to email it to me, I'll put it on my Kindle and watch it
>>>> churn. :-)
>>> done
>> Mine says it can't be opened "due to embedded features not yet supported
>> by Kindle."  It doesn't even try, or display the textual part.
>>
>> It says "(SECURED)" in the title bar of the PC window, tho, so I'm not
>> sure if it's just the 3D or the copy protection.
> 
> That's possible as well, I've had trouble with content restrictions in 
> PDF on the Nook.  When I get some time, I want to try enabling a few 
> different options and see what the results are.

I have that as well in the title bar on my PC. Still, it does work, so I 
assume it means something else, but who knows. I await any news on 
option settings.

Post a reply to this message

andrel wrote:
> I have that as well in the title bar on my PC. Still, it does work, so I 
> assume it means something else, but who knows. I await any news on 
> option settings.

If you look at "properties" it tells you what actions are restricted and 
what aren't.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Quoth the raven:
        Need S'Mores!

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On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 13:16:07 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> I looked around for it, but didn't have any luck.  It's called "100
>> Great Science Fiction Short Stories".
> 
> Is that the one with the white cover and green circle-like something or
> other on the cover? With all the stories just like 2 or 3 pages long?

The cover isn't what you describe, but the content is.

The cover can be seen here:

http://www.amazon.com/Great-Science-Fiction-Short-Stories/dp/0380507730

Hadn't actually noticed the used price for the paperback edition was 
$3.14, I had noticed the new price...

Jim

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> The cover isn't what you describe, but the content is.
> The cover can be seen here:

Oh yeah. I have that one somewhere too. It's a different book than I was 
talking about.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Quoth the raven:
        Need S'Mores!

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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> writes:

> Possibly, but from my point of view, I'm paying for the content, not the 

Yes, but that's what may change. It may shift to paying for _service_.

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 18:24:21 -0700, Neeum Zawan wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> writes:
> 
>> Possibly, but from my point of view, I'm paying for the content, not
>> the
> 
> Yes, but that's what may change. It may shift to paying for _service_.

It may shift that way, and if it does, then I'll stop using it.

Jim

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On 27-8-2010 23:55, Darren New wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>> I have that as well in the title bar on my PC. Still, it does work, so 
>> I assume it means something else, but who knows. I await any news on 
>> option settings.
> 
> If you look at "properties" it tells you what actions are restricted and 
> what aren't.
> 
Thanks, never looked at those. Apparently '(secured)' here means that 
you can look at it and print it, but nothing else. That should not 
prevent one from opening it on a kindle. Though if that application is 
not written by adobe changes that it can display it are minimal.

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