Mike Raiford wrote:
> On 8/12/2010 7:59 AM, Warp wrote:
> 
>>    I liked one thing the commentator said in the show, which was
>> something
>> about the outright contradictory attitude many drivers have towards their
>> own car: When the car is parked, it's the most valuable and fragile thing
>> in the entire world to them. Even a minor scratch is comparable to the
>> end
>> of the world. However, when they are driving the car, their attitude
>> seems
>> completely the opposite, as their driving is completely reckless, as
>> if they
>> couldn't care less how many scratches, bumps or even major damage
>> their car
>> could get from it.
>>
> 
> Wow... I can totally see that attitude in some people. I get annoyed by
> the constant nicks the front-end of my car gets from gravel coming off
> the road, which reminds me of another annoyance:
> 
> Gravel haulers. This is a tractor-trailer hauling a huge load of gravel.
> They've passed a law recently requiring them to place a tarp over the
> load. It helps, but I see so many that are in such a sad state of repair
> that have huge holes in the tarp. Flinging rocks toward windshields as
> they make their way down the road, usually driving way too fast.

My annoyance:
Snow and ice on trucks. I know the top of those transfer trucks are hard
to reach, but that three inch slab of rock hard ice, that built up while
you were stuck in at a rest stop cause the roads were closed, is going
to fly off at some point. Surprises me that more people aren't killed by
that stuff.

The people who leave the sheet of ice on their cars just have no excuse.
If I ever get hit by that on my bike, and survive, I will track them down.

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> I saw a study where they put cameras into 300 cars for a year to see what 
> the driver was doing when they got in an accident. Even knowing they were 
> being monitored, 100 people that year got in an accident.  That tells me 
> an average driver (assuming they picked randomly, which might not be the 
> case now that I think of it) gets in an accident every 3 years. This 
> boggles my mind. I don't even ding a door in the parking lot every 3 
> years.

That's because you're not 18 :-)  In the UK I think the average was once 
every 7 years, but I assume for young males that's about once a year and 
about once every 15-20 years for older people.

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> My annoyance:
> Snow and ice on trucks. I know the top of those transfer trucks are hard
> to reach, but that three inch slab of rock hard ice, that built up while
> you were stuck in at a rest stop cause the roads were closed, is going
> to fly off at some point. Surprises me that more people aren't killed by
> that stuff.

I once saw the whole top sheet of ice slide off onto the footpath as a truck 
went around a sharp corner, luckily there was nobody there.

I also had a big lump of ice (about 30x20 cm) come off the van that had just 
overtaken me and smash right into my windscreen, it was coming straight for 
my face but luckily the glass held up, it was the loudest bang I'd ever 
heard in the car!

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Am 13.08.2010 00:25, schrieb Darren New:

>> First we have to create a committee that can judge drivers capacity.
>
> On the other hand, I think it's safe to say that there *are* objective
> criteria for bad drivers: If you frequently get in an accident, you're a
> worse driver than those who never do.

Ah, so frequent drivers (traveling salesmen, taxi drivers etc) are 
inherently bad drivers?

Of course you could put the number of accidents into relation with the 
mileage traveled. But again: Are city commuters and taxi drivers 
inherently worse drivers than those who only use their car once in a 
blue moon for a long-distance journey on the highway?

You see, it's not so easy finding a flawless objective criterion, is it?

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On 8/12/2010 1:57 PM, andrel wrote:

> There are probably as many driver styles as there are drivers. There is
> for instance the aggressive style, though they would probably describe
...

Interesting point. I'm probably more of the cooperative driver, though 
depending on the circumstances I'm probably edge in a small amount of 
aggressiveness when called for. E.g. crowded road, no one will leave a 
good enough gap. You have to do something because you're running out of 
road (trying to merge onto the freeway)

Interestingly, I used to race in autocross back when I had a car that 
was appropriate for it. It gave me a good outlet for carving corners and 
doing some fast driving at the limit, something not appropriate for the 
street.

There is something to that, though. I see many drivers as not 
necessarily being bad drivers (unless they are driving 50mph on a 70mph 
road yapping on their cellphone) but being just plain rude drivers. I'm 
always very irritated when I see people wait until the absolute last 
possible second before moving over when there have been signs indicating 
the lane is under construction and everyone must move over up to a mile 
before the construction starts. Although, a couple of states I have 
driven in have enacted a law stating that they must move over 1/4 - 1/2 
mile before reaching the construction zone. Waiting to the last second 
before moving to a different lane will cause delays because someone will 
have to stop for you.

-- 
~Mike

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On 8/13/2010 4:52 AM, clipka wrote:

> Ah, so frequent drivers (traveling salesmen, taxi drivers etc) are
> inherently bad drivers?

I would say if the accidents are consistently and clearly their fault, 
then: Yes.

> Of course you could put the number of accidents into relation with the
> mileage traveled. But again: Are city commuters and taxi drivers
> inherently worse drivers than those who only use their car once in a
> blue moon for a long-distance journey on the highway?

Again, if they're easily proven to be at fault....

> You see, it's not so easy finding a flawless objective criterion, is it?

Not easy in the least.

-- 
~Mike

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On 8/12/2010 6:10 PM, Sabrina Kilian wrote:

> My annoyance:
> Snow and ice on trucks. I know the top of those transfer trucks are hard
> to reach, but that three inch slab of rock hard ice, that built up while
> you were stuck in at a rest stop cause the roads were closed, is going
> to fly off at some point. Surprises me that more people aren't killed by
> that stuff.

Oh, yeah... that doesn't happen very often around here. Not a whole lot 
of snow/ice.

> The people who leave the sheet of ice on their cars just have no excuse.
> If I ever get hit by that on my bike, and survive, I will track them down.

Yep. Though *if* there is a layer of soft snow, I usually won't bother 
with it, but I generally try to brush off anything that isn't adhered to 
the car.


-- 
~Mike

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On 13/08/2010 12:10 AM, Sabrina Kilian wrote:
> The people who leave the sheet of ice on their cars just have no excuse.
> If I ever get hit by that on my bike, and survive, I will track them down.

Reminds me of an incident that happened to me once years ago, with my 
first bike. It was an old, very under powered 90 cc Honda. I got caught 
behind a lorry either going to or coming back from an abattoir. It was 
full of dead and rank cattle and I could not overtake it because of 
narrow roads and oncoming traffic. I still remember the smell 40 years 
on and the heads poking over the sides. Yeuch!
That was a bike that taught me a lot the most important was get a bigger 
bike. ;-)


-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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scott wrote:
>> I saw a study where they put cameras into 300 cars for a year to see 
>> what the driver was doing when they got in an accident. Even knowing 
>> they were being monitored, 100 people that year got in an accident.  
>> That tells me an average driver (assuming they picked randomly, which 
>> might not be the case now that I think of it) gets in an accident 
>> every 3 years. This boggles my mind. I don't even ding a door in the 
>> parking lot every 3 years.
> 
> That's because you're not 18 :-) 

Neither were the people in these experiments.  Granted, they may have been 
driving in New York City or something.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Quoth the raven:
        Need S'Mores!

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Am 13.08.2010 14:28, schrieb Mike Raiford:

> There is something to that, though. I see many drivers as not
> necessarily being bad drivers (unless they are driving 50mph on a 70mph
> road yapping on their cellphone) but being just plain rude drivers. I'm
> always very irritated when I see people wait until the absolute last
> possible second before moving over when there have been signs indicating
> the lane is under construction and everyone must move over up to a mile
> before the construction starts. Although, a couple of states I have
> driven in have enacted a law stating that they must move over 1/4 - 1/2
> mile before reaching the construction zone. Waiting to the last second
> before moving to a different lane will cause delays because someone will
> have to stop for you.

... which in turn is only a problem if people on the lane you are to 
merge into don't bother whether you manage your merging maneuver or not.

Let's put it this way: If there is a gap you could move into, it 
wouldn't matter for the following traffic in /that/ lane whether you do 
indeed move into the gap ASAP or at the last possible moment, provided 
the following driver on that lane would be disciplined enough to leave 
that gap open for you. The only thing that would change would be that 
the following traffic on /your/ lane wouldn't be tempted to overtake you 
after you have merged.

As a matter of fact, in Germany there is a rule that in comparatively 
slow and dense traffic you /must not/ merge early, and instead drive on 
to the end of the lane, where both lanes are to merge in an alternating 
fashion (think of a zipper being closed).


Again, it's not a question of "the" best driving style, but rather how 
well your driving style is adapted to the palette of de-facto driving 
styles of your fellow drivers (and also your car).

For instance, I guess my current driving style is pretty well-suited for 
driving a well-powered car through German autobahn /commuter/ traffic, 
while driving the same car through German autobahn /holiday/ traffic is 
a totally different story. And driving a (comparatively) underpowered 
car on a German autobahn requires yet a different driving style, which 
inevitably /will/ irritate a certain subset of fellow drivers (primarily 
those who have never driven a low-powered car on an autobahn, I guess).

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