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Warp <war### [at] tag povrayorg> writes:
> Neeum Zawan <fee### [at] festercom> wrote:
>> Well, OK. Let me put it this way: I feel he /wrongly/ stereotyped. I'm
>> sure not all (or even most) women who complain about not being able to
>> find a "nice" person have treated a nice person in the past the way he
>> claimed.
>
> That may be true. Perhaps he made a hasty generalization. However,
> it seems that he was speaking from personal experience, so at least
> *some* women are probably like that.
Never disputed it.
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Shay <n@n.n> writes:
> On 08/09/2010 07:37 PM, Darren New wrote:
>>
>> I just wondered how you discovered exactly how the author feels without
>> even knowing what his name is, let alone talked to him about it,
>
> So, assuming some guy ranting on craigslist is full of shit is more of
> an assumption that assuming he's not?
Given your phrasing, you do realize that assuming my next door neighbor
is not a serial killer is no more or less an assumption than assuming
he's not?
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Shay wrote:
> So, assuming
Yes. That's my point.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
C# - a language whose greatest drawback
is that its best implementation comes
from a company that doesn't hate Microsoft.
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On 08/09/2010 10:19 PM, Darren New wrote:
> Shay wrote:
>> So, assuming
>
> Yes. That's my point.
>
So, the problem isn't necessarily with my opinion but with my having one
at all?
Lame. If you disagree with me, just disagree with me. Argue your point
or don't, but please spare this pitiable wretch your melodrama and
finger-wagging.
-Shay
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On 08/09/2010 09:05 PM, Tim Cook wrote:
>
> It's the jerks and
> frat-boy types that are blatant about 'gaming' women that actually get
> the women, while the 'nice guy' geeks get 'friendzoned'.
Sure, I'll buy that, though the frat-boy "games" I've seen involve much
less resentment. More like, "Will you sleep with me? Please? It'll be
fun. Pretty please?".
And I'll bet most of those frat-boy types grow up to be loving husbands
and fathers. I've seen it happen many times.
And there are plenty of genuine nice guys in the world. Most of the ones
I've known have had healthy and plentiful relationships with women.
The creep OTOH has always remained a creep IME.
-Shay
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Shay <n@n.n> wrote:
> On 08/08/2010 04:59 AM, Warp wrote:
> >
> > When a man tries to be nice to a woman, the motive must be sex. When a
> > man listens to a woman, shares feelings and emotions, that is, he wants
> > to be a good friend to the woman, the motive must be sex. When a man is
> > courteus to a woman, shows respect and has good manners, the motive must
> > be sex. You talk as if all men who do any of this consider women to be
> > just sentient sex toys which must be conquered by whatever social and
> > psychological means are necessary.
> The original author feels *exactly* that way
Ah, you know him personally and have first-hand knowledge of the situation
he described. Well, then I stand corrected.
--
- Warp
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Shay <n@n.n> wrote:
> Because I think the "Recovering Nice Guy" is really full of crap?
> Because I'm unfortunate enough to have met a few of that type in my life?
You know, I'm starting to agree with the "Recovering Nice Guy". What
happened to all the nice guys? You happened.
--
- Warp
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On 08/10/2010 12:15 AM, Warp wrote:
>
> Ah, you know him personally and have first-hand knowledge of the situation
> he described.
You thought you were the only one?
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On 04/08/2010 1:58 PM, Warp wrote:
> For some reason I found this quite touching:
>
> http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/lax/483318927.html
>
To me he sounds like a self pitying wimp.
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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Stephen <mca### [at] aoldotcom> wrote:
> On 04/08/2010 1:58 PM, Warp wrote:
> > For some reason I found this quite touching:
> >
> > http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/lax/483318927.html
> >
> To me he sounds like a self pitying wimp.
That comment sounds quite arrogant to me. You don't know his situation,
you don't know his personality, you don't know exactly what happened. For
some reason you are assuming dishonesty (if not in any other form, at least
in the form of the author deluding himself, thus being dishonest to himself).
Why does everything have to be taken on bad faith? Why cannot honesty
and objectivity be assumed by default? Are we so cynical that everybody
must be assumed to be dishonest liars until proven otherwise?
--
- Warp
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On 10/08/2010 12:01 PM, Warp wrote:
> Stephen<mca### [at] aoldotcom> wrote:
>> On 04/08/2010 1:58 PM, Warp wrote:
>>> For some reason I found this quite touching:
>>>
>>> http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/lax/483318927.html
>>>
>
>> To me he sounds like a self pitying wimp.
>
> That comment sounds quite arrogant to me. You don't know his situation,
> you don't know his personality, you don't know exactly what happened. For
> some reason you are assuming dishonesty (if not in any other form, at least
> in the form of the author deluding himself, thus being dishonest to himself).
>
> Why does everything have to be taken on bad faith? Why cannot honesty
> and objectivity be assumed by default? Are we so cynical that everybody
> must be assumed to be dishonest liars until proven otherwise?
>
I suppose that without any qualifying statements it could be seen as
arrogant. But it is a statement of fact that, it is how his rant seems
to me. A disappointed person who has gone out of his way to have a
platonic relationship with a member of the opposite sex and is
frustrated when things did not work out the way he wanted them. Then
whinges about women in general when he really is talking about one woman
specifically. This reeks of misogynism to me. But then, I like the
company of women, prefering them to men actually.
If the subject of his rant actually said “What happened to all the nice
guys?” and did not think that she “let him go”. Then maybe he is not as
nice a guy as he obviously thinks he is. Which agrees with your point
that I think that he is deluding himself.
If you read what he wrote on more than a surface level you can see that
he believes he is a paragon of virtue. Paragraph starting, See, if you
think back… But then this shining example of manhood goes on to declare
to the world lots the of truly evil things she has done to him such as
laughing at him and saying that she denied having any romantic feelings
for him. That is one of the reasons I call him a wimp. BTW don’t you
hate people that talk about themselves in the third person?
He then goes on (in the third person, again) to imply how successful he
is even suggesting that he has had SEX. OMG!
As you will be able to see from this short tirade I don’t think much of
the author’s sensibilities. The only thing in its favour is his anonymity.
BTW (2) I don’t see why you think that everything is taken on bad faith
or honesty and objectivity isn’t assumed by default.
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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Shay wrote:
> So, the problem isn't necessarily with my opinion but with my having one
> at all?
It just sounded like something a bit more assertive than an opinion. Perhaps
I was reading into the statement more than it warranted, based on your
earlier assumptions and your hostile tone.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
C# - a language whose greatest drawback
is that its best implementation comes
from a company that doesn't hate Microsoft.
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On 8/9/2010 4:24 PM, Shay wrote:
>
> The original author feels *exactly* that way (minus the part about
> sharing feelings and emotions [this type only does so when he feels it's
> expedient]). There are a lot of people out there who, due to some
> psychosis or Aspergers or their just being pricks, see others (not just
> women) as sentient objects which can be controlled with the correct input.
>
Neither psychotic nor Asperger's would be the case for that line of
thinking. More like sociopathic or psychopathic. Psychotic generally
involves delusions and hallucinations. Asperger's just simply don't have
the faculty to deal properly with social situations, and so are socially
awkward, but do not view others as some sort of game piece.
Sociopaths on the other hand do: If they can use someone for personal
gain, they will. They have no empathy for others.
--
~Mike
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On 8/9/2010 5:45 PM, Shay wrote:
> On 08/09/2010 05:16 PM, Darren New wrote:
>> Shay wrote:
>>> The original author feels *exactly* that way
>>
>> Oh? What's his name?
>
> ¿¿¿¿ "A Recovering Nice Guy" ????
>
> Why?
>
>>
>>> They don't have true friends, because it's impossible to obligate
>>> someone into true friendship.
>>
>> I feel really bad for you.
>
> Huh?
Yeah ... I don't get that either.
> Because I think the "Recovering Nice Guy" is really full of crap?
> Because I'm unfortunate enough to have met a few of that type in my life?
I don't really see RNG as being full of crap, but rather angry and
bitter at his life experience. I can't say I blame him, since these are
his perceptions of the world. I've definitely felt that way at times,
myself. Especially when my ex wife left me for someone else who was a
total ass, but then it worked out for the better for me.
But... what type exactly do you mean? Jaded? Yeah, some people can be
jaded by the actions of others. You certainly do have a different
perspective on things though.
--
~Mike
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On 8/9/2010 11:23 PM, Shay wrote:
> And I'll bet most of those frat-boy types grow up to be loving husbands
> and fathers. I've seen it happen many times.
Mmhmm. I've not quite seen that. The ones I've observed have pretty much
continued on their ways. Usually ending in divorce or worse. But then,
my sampling may not be typical.
> And there are plenty of genuine nice guys in the world. Most of the ones
> I've known have had healthy and plentiful relationships with women.
There are. For certain. I'm sure most keep their frustrations with
dating to themselves and don't go on paragraphs-long rants on
Craigslist, as well.
> The creep OTOH has always remained a creep IME.
The same could be said about the frat-boy always remains the frat-boy.
Of course, my definition of creep may different. The creep IMO is the
guy who keeps making unwanted advances after being told to back off.
That *is* creepy behavior. And yeah, that's true ... I don't think they
change. But, I've never hung around long enough with the truly creepy to
make a good judgment of that.
--
~Mike
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On 16/08/2010 1:18 PM, Mike Raiford wrote:
> I've definitely felt that way at times, myself. Especially when my ex
> wife left me for someone else who was a total ass, but then it worked
> out for the better for me.
Well as my old grandmother used to say. "What's for you won't go past you."
'Glad it has worked out. :-)
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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On 8/8/2010 11:42 AM, Darren New wrote:
> He's not bemoaning not getting laid, per se. He's bemoaning getting
> treated like crap when he's nice, discarded for people who are not nice,
> and being used for the thing's he's nice at without being around when
> she's having fun. There's only so long even the nicest guy will be an
> emotional tampon before he moves on.
That is exactly it. He resents being treated like a doormat. Something I
have a lot of familiarity with, unfortunately.
--
~Mike
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On 8/7/2010 1:22 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> bs, I'm a geek and married. My wife's a geek too.
^^ What he said, minus the wife part. She's not a geek, but she
tolerates my geekery :D
I've also been in former nice guy's position as well. Jaded, Bitter
about the world and about people in general. Feels like he was a
doormat. Been there, done that, probably written a few ill-advised rants
myself at some point.
--
~Mike
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On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 07:11:35 -0500, Mike Raiford wrote:
> Asperger's just simply don't have
> the faculty to deal properly with social situations, and so are socially
> awkward, but do not view others as some sort of game piece.
It's worth pointing out, though that just because someone doesn't have
the ability to deal properly with social situations that they have any
degree of Asperger's. There are other important markers for Asperger's
that are often overlooked by those who aren't trained to recognise them.
Jim
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On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 07:37:49 -0500, Mike Raiford wrote:
> I've also been in former nice guy's position as well. Jaded, Bitter
> about the world and about people in general. Feels like he was a
> doormat. Been there, done that, probably written a few ill-advised rants
> myself at some point.
Same here, though probably haven't written the rants about it (but I've
had them).
It was always frustrating for me to have female friends who would come to
me to talk about their "boyfriend problems".
Jim
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On 8/16/2010 4:21 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> It's worth pointing out, though that just because someone doesn't have
> the ability to deal properly with social situations that they have any
> degree of Asperger's. There are other important markers for Asperger's
> that are often overlooked by those who aren't trained to recognise them.
Yep. A whole constellation of symptoms. My point was that what Shay was
describing was not necessarily Aspergers, and more than likely not.
--
~Mike
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On 8/16/2010 4:23 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> It was always frustrating for me to have female friends who would come to
> me to talk about their "boyfriend problems".
Yup. Even more frustrating is the appearance of not learning from
previous mistakes. Seems some women have a preference for dirtbags. ;)
Whatever. I'm happy where I am.. :D
--
~Mike
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On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:44:27 -0500, Mike Raiford wrote:
> On 8/16/2010 4:23 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>
>> It was always frustrating for me to have female friends who would come
>> to me to talk about their "boyfriend problems".
>
> Yup. Even more frustrating is the appearance of not learning from
> previous mistakes. Seems some women have a preference for dirtbags. ;)
>
> Whatever. I'm happy where I am.. :D
As am I. :-)
Jim
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