What the hell are "bangs"? Is this an American thing or something?

(TMBG wrote an entire song about them. To quote, "blow my mind your 
royal flyness, I dig your bangs".)



"I'll carry your books to school."

Is this another American thing? At every school I've ever seen, there'd 
be nothing to carry. The textbooks and workbooks stay in the classroom. 
(Unless you're doing homework, I guess...) Hell, even at university I 
didn't really have much to carry - then again, I guess that's because it 
was all on disk...



What precisely does "going steady" actually mean anyway?

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:39:40 +0100, Invisible wrote:

> What the hell are "bangs"? Is this an American thing or something?
> 
> (TMBG wrote an entire song about them. To quote, "blow my mind your
> royal flyness, I dig your bangs".)

http://tinyurl.com/2uk32nz

#2 on this list.

> "I'll carry your books to school."
> 
> Is this another American thing? At every school I've ever seen, there'd
> be nothing to carry. The textbooks and workbooks stay in the classroom.
> (Unless you're doing homework, I guess...) Hell, even at university I
> didn't really have much to carry - then again, I guess that's because it
> was all on disk...

In US schools, the books go home with students, and at university, the 
student purchases/owns the books.

> What precisely does "going steady" actually mean anyway?

http://tinyurl.com/348py4l

#2 on this list.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:

Damnit, you're fast!

> http://tinyurl.com/2uk32nz
> 
> #2 on this list.

Actually it says HTTP 404...

> In US schools, the books go home with students, and at university, the 
> student purchases/owns the books.

Really? Heh, I never knew that. Any specific reason?

> http://tinyurl.com/348py4l
> 
> #2 on this list.

Again, 404.

Post a reply to this message

Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> > In US schools, the books go home with students, and at university, the 
> > student purchases/owns the books.

> Really? Heh, I never knew that. Any specific reason?

  At least University-level education is not part of the mandatory education
system and hence the government does not provide students with the studying
material, so they have to purchase it themselves.

  It's common, but not universal, that in countries where basic education
is mandatory, the government provides the students with the material they
need (rather than forcing them to buy it). There are (or at least were)
exceptions to this in some countries (which, when you think about it, makes
little sense: Basically the government is *forcing* parents to buy books
for their children by law, which doesn't seem to be fair).

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> > In US schools, the books go home with students, and at university, the
> > student purchases/owns the books.
>
> Really? Heh, I never knew that. Any specific reason?

You make it sound outlandish. This was exactly my experience at my UK school,
and university. We had the use of lockers at school, but as you say, homework
etc...

Post a reply to this message

Invisible escreveu:
> What the hell are "bangs"? Is this an American thing or something?

you can bang your head against the wall, you can learn about the big 
bang, you can purchase some item that will give you more bang to your 
buck or you can, ahem, have a bang with some chick... :p


-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> the government provides the students with the material they need 

Interestingly, my understanding is that "school uniforms" are usually *not* 
paid for by the government, and the point of the uniforms is to avoid 
distinguishing wealthy from poor. If everyone buys the same clothes, there's 
no way to have a status symbol your parents bought for you in that way.

I may be completely mistaken about this, mind.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    C# - a language whose greatest drawback
    is that its best implementation comes
    from a company that doesn't hate Microsoft.

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> What the hell are "bangs"? Is this an American thing or something?

Since it's a 404, "bangs" are the girl equivalent of long sideburns.

Indeed, I don't know what google *you* are typing into, but typing "bangs" 
into the one my browser hits comes up with the first entry being dozens of 
pictures of bangs.


> "I'll carry your books to school."
> 
> Is this another American thing? At every school I've ever seen, there'd 
> be nothing to carry. The textbooks and workbooks stay in the classroom. 

You probably share the same books with several classes. Here, in grade 
school at least, you get given the book at the start of the year and give it 
back at the end. There's places to store it in the school, but if you have 
homework or whatever you lug it home with you.

http://www.lockersdepot.com/index/single-tier-standard-lockers-1.htm

> What precisely does "going steady" actually mean anyway?

Exclusive dating.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    C# - a language whose greatest drawback
    is that its best implementation comes
    from a company that doesn't hate Microsoft.

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'bangs.jpg' (127 KB)

Preview of image 'bangs.jpg'

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:45:10 +0100, Invisible wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
> Damnit, you're fast!
> 
>> http://tinyurl.com/2uk32nz
>> 
>> #2 on this list.
> 
> Actually it says HTTP 404...

Crap, tinyurl is failing.

Google with the term:  define:bangs

>> In US schools, the books go home with students, and at university, the
>> student purchases/owns the books.
> 
> Really? Heh, I never knew that. Any specific reason?
> 
>> http://tinyurl.com/348py4l
>> 
>> #2 on this list.
> 
> Again, 404.

define:"going steady".

Perfectly googleable. :-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:45:10 +0100, Invisible wrote:

>> In US schools, the books go home with students, and at university, the
>> student purchases/owns the books.
> 
> Really? Heh, I never knew that. Any specific reason?

Because students write in books, particularly at uni.  Books go home with 
students in public schools (and private schools in my experience) so 
students can do their homework.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

>> Really? Heh, I never knew that. Any specific reason?
> 
> You make it sound outlandish.

Not so much. I'm just intrigued, that's all. :-)

> This was exactly my experience at my UK school,
> and university. We had the use of lockers at school, but as you say, homework
> etc...

I recall at uni there were certain books that they said you should buy.

Or you could just get them out of the uni library for nothing. Well, duh.

The *only* book I actually bought was C. J. Date. It's not quite Knuth 
but it's weighty enough...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:

> "bangs" are the girl equivalent of long sideburns.

So... TMBG spent 5 minute singing a song about hair?

Oh, wait a sec. It's TMBG! ;-)

>> "I'll carry your books to school."
>>
>> Is this another American thing? At every school I've ever seen, 
>> there'd be nothing to carry. The textbooks and workbooks stay in the 
>> classroom. 
> 
> You probably share the same books with several classes.

Indeed. Most schools can bearly afford to pay for that even. :-P

> Here, in grade 
> school at least, you get given the book at the start of the year and 
> give it back at the end. There's places to store it in the school, but 
> if you have homework or whatever you lug it home with you.

I see...

Now, personally, I went to primary school, then I went to secondary 
school, then college, then uni. I have no idea what the hell highschool 
is. I also don't know what 5th grade is... o_O

>> What precisely does "going steady" actually mean anyway?
> 
> Exclusive dating.

Finally, some geniunely useful responses...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > the government provides the students with the material they need 

> Interestingly, my understanding is that "school uniforms" are usually *not* 
> paid for by the government, and the point of the uniforms is to avoid 
> distinguishing wealthy from poor. If everyone buys the same clothes, there's 
> no way to have a status symbol your parents bought for you in that way.

  Wouldn't it thus make sense for the government to provide the uniforms?
(Because, after all, not all parents might be able to afford them.)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> "bangs" are the girl equivalent of long sideburns.

  Does the expression "more bang for your buck" have anything to do with it?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> "bangs" are the girl equivalent of long sideburns.
> 
>   Does the expression "more bang for your buck" have anything to do with it?

I'm assuming you're being serious here, but if not, good job! :-)

I think the "bang for your buck" means the power of the firearm vs the price 
in dollars.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    C# - a language whose greatest drawback
    is that its best implementation comes
    from a company that doesn't hate Microsoft.

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:59:00 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:


> I recall at uni there were certain books that they said you should buy.
> 
> Or you could just get them out of the uni library for nothing. Well,
> duh.

Yeah, unless it's a classroom textbook - the library isn't likely to keep 
100+ copies of it on the shelves....

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 19:07:56 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> Now, personally, I went to primary school, then I went to secondary
> school, then college, then uni. I have no idea what the hell highschool
> is. I also don't know what 5th grade is... o_O

Try googling it. ;-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:05:10 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Since it's a 404, "bangs" are the girl equivalent of long sideburns.

Not really, bangs are the front, sideburns are, well, on the side in 
front of the ears.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Now, personally, I went to primary school, then I went to secondary 
> school, then college, then uni. I have no idea what the hell highschool 
> is. I also don't know what 5th grade is... o_O

Here, there's "pre-school" which is < 5 YO.
Kindergarden is for when you're 5 YO.
Grade school is the next 12 years (grade 1 thru 12).
"Elementary school" is grades 1 thru 6,
with "junior high school" being grades 7 thru 9 and
"high school" being grades 10 thru 12.

Then there's college, often at a university. A "university" here is a 
college with campuses in more than one city. So you have "University of 
California San Diego" and "University of California in Berkeley", etc.

"Associate college" is  a 2-year degree program.

"College" is four years.

"Graduate school" is after you graduate from college, to get a masters or 
PhD or MD or whatever.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    C# - a language whose greatest drawback
    is that its best implementation comes
    from a company that doesn't hate Microsoft.

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Then there's college, often at a university. A "university" here is a 
> college with campuses in more than one city. So you have "University of 
> California San Diego" and "University of California in Berkeley", etc.

  I have never really understood the difference between a college and a
university in the US (even though both feature prominently and regularly
in many movies and TV series). I have got the impression from somewhere
that college is a kind of "preparation for the university" or something
along those lines, but that might be completely wrong.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> >> "bangs" are the girl equivalent of long sideburns.
> > 
> >   Does the expression "more bang for your buck" have anything to do with it?

> I'm assuming you're being serious here, but if not, good job! :-)

  It was a joke. I don't like to emphasize jokes with smilies. It feels like
explaining the joke...

> I think the "bang for your buck" means the power of the firearm vs the price 
> in dollars.

   I thought it meant "you get something more useful/valuable (or sometimes
just "more") for the same amount of money" (usually when comparing prices of
different manufacturers).

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Then there's college, often at a university. A "university" here is a 
>> college with campuses in more than one city. So you have "University of 
>> California San Diego" and "University of California in Berkeley", etc.
> 
>   I have never really understood the difference between a college and a
> university in the US 

Generally speaking, it's whether you have multiple campuses, or just one. At 
least, that's what it was when I went to college.

It has nothing to do with what they teach or how long you attend or anything 
like that. Just, basically, size.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    C# - a language whose greatest drawback
    is that its best implementation comes
    from a company that doesn't hate Microsoft.

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Warp wrote:
>>> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>>>> "bangs" are the girl equivalent of long sideburns.
>>>   Does the expression "more bang for your buck" have anything to do with it?
> 
>> I'm assuming you're being serious here, but if not, good job! :-)
> 
>   It was a joke. I don't like to emphasize jokes with smilies. It feels like
> explaining the joke...

I couldn't tell, because that's exactly the sort of excellent pun-type 
inferences I've come to expect from smart people who aren't native speakers. :-)

>> I think the "bang for your buck" means the power of the firearm vs the price 
>> in dollars.
> 
>    I thought it meant "you get something more useful/valuable (or sometimes
> just "more") for the same amount of money" (usually when comparing prices of
> different manufacturers).

Yes, basically. But the origin is in firearms.  For example, you wouldn't 
want literally more bang in your purchase of tires.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    C# - a language whose greatest drawback
    is that its best implementation comes
    from a company that doesn't hate Microsoft.

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> >> Then there's college, often at a university. A "university" here is a 
> >> college with campuses in more than one city. So you have "University of 
> >> California San Diego" and "University of California in Berkeley", etc.
> > 
> >   I have never really understood the difference between a college and a
> > university in the US 

> Generally speaking, it's whether you have multiple campuses, or just one. At 
> least, that's what it was when I went to college.

> It has nothing to do with what they teach or how long you attend or anything 
> like that. Just, basically, size.

  What would be the problem in calling all of them universities, if they
teach the same things and you get the same academic degrees?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> > Warp wrote:
> > > Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> > >> Then there's college, often at a university. A "university" here is a 
> > >> college with campuses in more than one city. So you have "University of 
> > >> California San Diego" and "University of California in Berkeley", etc.
> > > 
> > >   I have never really understood the difference between a college and a
> > > university in the US 

> > Generally speaking, it's whether you have multiple campuses, or just one. At 
> > least, that's what it was when I went to college.

> > It has nothing to do with what they teach or how long you attend or anything 
> > like that. Just, basically, size.

>   What would be the problem in calling all of them universities, if they
> teach the same things and you get the same academic degrees?

  Btw, it seems (according to wikipedia) that there are actually two
definitions of "college": The official definition and the informal,
colloquial definition. As wikipedia puts it:

"In popular usage, the word "college" is the generic term for any
post-secondary undergraduate education. Americans go to "college"
after high school, regardless of whether the specific institution is
formally a college or a university, and the word and its derivatives
are the standard terms used to describe the institutions and
experiences associated with American post-secondary undergraduate
education."

  The official definition seems to be more complex.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:14:07 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Warp wrote:
>> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>>> Then there's college, often at a university. A "university" here is a
>>> college with campuses in more than one city. So you have "University
>>> of California San Diego" and "University of California in Berkeley",
>>> etc.
>> 
>>   I have never really understood the difference between a college and a
>> university in the US
> 
> Generally speaking, it's whether you have multiple campuses, or just
> one. At least, that's what it was when I went to college.
> 
> It has nothing to do with what they teach or how long you attend or
> anything like that. Just, basically, size.

That sounds right to me as well - though it isn't even "size" so much; I 
went to Embry-Riddle, and as schools go it's fairly small, but they have 
multiple campuses, so it's classified as a university.

Jim

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> multiple campuses, so it's classified as a university.

The only reason I know this is I went to West Chester State College for 
undergraduate, that turned into West Chester University when I was half-way 
through.  It was a source of great mirth.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    C# - a language whose greatest drawback
    is that its best implementation comes
    from a company that doesn't hate Microsoft.

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
>   What would be the problem in calling all of them universities, if they
> teach the same things and you get the same academic degrees?

You're asking me why Americans don't have a logical language?

 > "In popular usage, the word "college" is the generic term

Yes.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    C# - a language whose greatest drawback
    is that its best implementation comes
    from a company that doesn't hate Microsoft.

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:32:00 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> multiple campuses, so it's classified as a university.
> 
> The only reason I know this is I went to West Chester State College for
> undergraduate, that turned into West Chester University when I was
> half-way through.  It was a source of great mirth.

That also probably explains the university that's in Waynesburg, PA - 
which is a source of much amusement for my wife (who's from there). :-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On 16/07/2010 4:59 PM, Bill Pragnell wrote:
> Invisible<voi### [at] devnull>  wrote:
>>> In US schools, the books go home with students, and at university, the
>>> student purchases/owns the books.
>>
>> Really? Heh, I never knew that. Any specific reason?
>
> You make it sound outlandish. This was exactly my experience at my UK school,
> and university. We had the use of lockers at school, but as you say, homework
> etc...
>
>
You English had it soft, :-P lockers indeed. We had to take all our 
school books home and bring the correct ones in daily. Our memories were 
encouraged by the use of the tawse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawse

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 16/07/2010 9:45 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> >>     I have never really understood the difference between a college and a
>>> >>  university in the US
>> >
>> >  Generally speaking, it's whether you have multiple campuses, or just
>> >  one. At least, that's what it was when I went to college.
>> >
>> >  It has nothing to do with what they teach or how long you attend or
>> >  anything like that. Just, basically, size.
> That sounds right to me as well - though it isn't even "size" so much; I
> went to Embry-Riddle, and as schools go it's fairly small, but they have
> multiple campuses, so it's classified as a university.
>

In the UK, universities award their own degrees and require (I think) a 
royal charter. Colleges can award degrees from another institution.

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

>> Interestingly, my understanding is that "school uniforms" are usually *not* 
>> paid for by the government, and the point of the uniforms is to avoid 
>> distinguishing wealthy from poor. If everyone buys the same clothes, there's 
>> no way to have a status symbol your parents bought for you in that way.
> 
>   Wouldn't it thus make sense for the government to provide the uniforms?
> (Because, after all, not all parents might be able to afford them.)

Here's the fun part:

Some schools say "you must wear a blue shirt and black trousers", and 
you go buy that from wherever. Other schools sell their own uniform 
(usually with the school name embroidered on it). And they can basically 
charge... whatever they like for it. It's a nice little source of income 
for the school. (Schools are always whining about having insufficient 
funds.)

So it's basically "you must come to school, and you must pay £££ for the 
uniform in order to do so". Nice...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

>> I recall at uni there were certain books that they said you should buy.
>>
>> Or you could just get them out of the uni library for nothing. Well,
>> duh.
> 
> Yeah, unless it's a classroom textbook - the library isn't likely to keep 
> 100+ copies of it on the shelves....

Maybe it's just the uni I went to. The largest class in the entire uni 
was, like, 70 people or something.

I remember when we did object-oriented analysis and design, we were all 
ordered to go buy the UML book. I thought "hey, I'll just get it from 
the library". I found the shelf... and it was bare.

Two weeks later, I tried to get the book, and there was at least 30 
copies. But then, as I quickly discovered, the book was useless anyway! ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Here's the fun part:

> Some schools say "you must wear a blue shirt and black trousers", and 
> you go buy that from wherever. Other schools sell their own uniform 
> (usually with the school name embroidered on it). And they can basically 
> charge... whatever they like for it. It's a nice little source of income 
> for the school. (Schools are always whining about having insufficient 
> funds.)

> So it's basically "you must come to school, and you must pay £££ for the 
> uniform in order to do so". Nice...

  A naive person would think that this is exactly what taxes are for.
(And, in fact, in many countries this *is* something which is paid from
tax money.)

  It would be an example of a *good* use of tax money, as it helps evening
out the difference between rich and poor (while still not being outright
communism).

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> I remember when we did object-oriented analysis and design, we were all 
> ordered to go buy the UML book.

  At least here books are *recommended*, not mandatory. If you can pass the
course without the book, then that's fine. It's just a recommendation of what
to buy if you want additional material to help you learn the things taught.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> I remember when we did object-oriented analysis and design, we were all 
>> ordered to go buy the UML book.
> 
>   At least here books are *recommended*, not mandatory. If you can pass the
> course without the book, then that's fine. It's just a recommendation of what
> to buy if you want additional material to help you learn the things taught.

Yeah, that would make more sense. At my uni we were given the impression 
"if you don't have this book, you'll fail".

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> Here, there's "pre-school" which is < 5 YO.
> Kindergarden is for when you're 5 YO.
> Grade school is the next 12 years (grade 1 thru 12).
> "Elementary school" is grades 1 thru 6,
> with "junior high school" being grades 7 thru 9 and
> "high school" being grades 10 thru 12.
> 
> Then there's college, often at a university. A "university" here is a 
> college with campuses in more than one city. So you have "University of 
> California San Diego" and "University of California in Berkeley", etc.
> 
> "Associate college" is  a 2-year degree program.
> 
> "College" is four years.
> 
> "Graduate school" is after you graduate from college, to get a masters 
> or PhD or MD or whatever.

That's really quite a lot to take in... o_O

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
news:4c40b4a7@news.povray.org...
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> > Then there's college, often at a university. A "university" here is a
> > college with campuses in more than one city. So you have "University of
> > California San Diego" and "University of California in Berkeley", etc.
>
>   I have never really understood the difference between a college and a
> university in the US

Colleges don't typically offer graduate programs, and research may be
minimal / non-existant. The programs might be limited as well, say, strictly
art with no scientific/technical schools or strictly a technical institute
with no art/science schools. The term also may cover 2 year post secondary
institutions that may not offer a full/accredited degree.

Universities of course offer full undergraduate and graduate degree
programs.

That said, some colleges which eventually become universities may maintain
the term "college" in their title. And to further confuse matters, some
refer to universities as colleges (but almost never the other way around).

Post a reply to this message

somebody <x### [at] ycom> wrote:
> Colleges don't typically offer graduate programs, and research may be
> minimal / non-existant. The programs might be limited as well, say, strictly
> art with no scientific/technical schools or strictly a technical institute
> with no art/science schools. The term also may cover 2 year post secondary
> institutions that may not offer a full/accredited degree.

> Universities of course offer full undergraduate and graduate degree
> programs.

  If you go to a (pure) college and get an undergraduate degree, and then
go to an actual university to get a graduate degree, do they directly accept
your undergraduate studies in the university so that you don't have to do
it all over again?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
>   If you go to a (pure) college and get an undergraduate degree, and then
> go to an actual university to get a graduate degree, do they directly accept
> your undergraduate studies in the university so that you don't have to do
> it all over again?

Yes, pretty much. As long as the schools involved are "accredited" (which 
means they teach stuff according to government standards) it transfers over. 
There maybe be an occasional special case where one particular school's 
physics class or something isn't up to par, but yah, generally everyone gets 
along.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    C# - a language whose greatest drawback
    is that its best implementation comes
    from a company that doesn't hate Microsoft.

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> That's really quite a lot to take in... o_O

You have 20 years of living in the culture to figure it out. :-)

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    C# - a language whose greatest drawback
    is that its best implementation comes
    from a company that doesn't hate Microsoft.

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On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:08:59 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> I recall at uni there were certain books that they said you should
>>> buy.
>>>
>>> Or you could just get them out of the uni library for nothing. Well,
>>> duh.
>> 
>> Yeah, unless it's a classroom textbook - the library isn't likely to
>> keep 100+ copies of it on the shelves....
> 
> Maybe it's just the uni I went to. The largest class in the entire uni
> was, like, 70 people or something.

That's still more copies than a library is likely to keep on hand.

> I remember when we did object-oriented analysis and design, we were all
> ordered to go buy the UML book. I thought "hey, I'll just get it from
> the library". I found the shelf... and it was bare.

Exactly my point. :-)

> Two weeks later, I tried to get the book, and there was at least 30
> copies. But then, as I quickly discovered, the book was useless anyway!
> ;-)

Perhaps nobody was using it at the time (that'd be my guess) - but if 
everyone had to do an assignment from it at the same time, there'd be a 
problem.

Where I went to uni, classes were duplicated as well, so while class 
sizes topped out at about 70 (like yours), there were 3 different times 
the class was offered, which would be 210 students max.

Jim

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On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:25:43 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> Warp wrote:
>> Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>>> I remember when we did object-oriented analysis and design, we were
>>> all ordered to go buy the UML book.
>> 
>>   At least here books are *recommended*, not mandatory. If you can pass
>>   the
>> course without the book, then that's fine. It's just a recommendation
>> of what to buy if you want additional material to help you learn the
>> things taught.
> 
> Yeah, that would make more sense. At my uni we were given the impression
> "if you don't have this book, you'll fail".

If the homework assignments are in the book, well, you can't do the 
homework without the book.

Jim

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On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 06:10:03 -0400, Warp wrote:

>   It would be an example of a *good* use of tax money, as it helps
>   evening
> out the difference between rich and poor (while still not being outright
> communism).

Instead it teaches that conformity is good.  Looking through history, the 
people who made a real difference were not conformists, in general.

People need to learn that independent thought is valued, not conformity.

Jim

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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 06:10:03 -0400, Warp wrote:

> >   It would be an example of a *good* use of tax money, as it helps
> >   evening
> > out the difference between rich and poor (while still not being outright
> > communism).

> Instead it teaches that conformity is good.  Looking through history, the 
> people who made a real difference were not conformists, in general.

> People need to learn that independent thought is valued, not conformity.

  I was not talking about school uniforms in particular, but providing
students with whatever material they need in general.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
news:4c41e21d$1@news.povray.org...
> On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 06:10:03 -0400, Warp wrote:

> >   It would be an example of a *good* use of tax money, as it helps
> >   evening
> > out the difference between rich and poor (while still not being outright
> > communism).

> Instead it teaches that conformity is good.  Looking through history, the
> people who made a real difference

... for bad as well as good ...

> were not conformists, in general.

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On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 14:23:16 -0600, somebody wrote:

> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:4c41e21d$1@news.povray.org...
>> On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 06:10:03 -0400, Warp wrote:
> 
>> >   It would be an example of a *good* use of tax money, as it helps
>> >   evening
>> > out the difference between rich and poor (while still not being
>> > outright communism).
> 
>> Instead it teaches that conformity is good.  Looking through history,
>> the people who made a real difference
> 
> ... for bad as well as good ...

But of course - those who are nonconformists can use their powers for 
good or for evil.

But everyone focuses on the evil ones and not the good ones when trying 
to say that conformity is *good*.

>> were not conformists, in general.

Jim

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On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 14:35:39 -0400, Warp wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 06:10:03 -0400, Warp wrote:
> 
>> >   It would be an example of a *good* use of tax money, as it helps
>> >   evening
>> > out the difference between rich and poor (while still not being
>> > outright communism).
> 
>> Instead it teaches that conformity is good.  Looking through history,
>> the people who made a real difference were not conformists, in general.
> 
>> People need to learn that independent thought is valued, not
>> conformity.
> 
>   I was not talking about school uniforms in particular, but providing
> students with whatever material they need in general.

I would like to see teachers paid a living wage here in the US, that'd be 
a good start.  Too often we hear about teachers who don't get paid well 
enough to begin with that they have to work a second job of some sort, 
and then we hear that they have to take their own hard-earned money and 
invest in classroom supplies for their students.  *That's* certainly not 
right.

Jim

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>> Yeah, that would make more sense. At my uni we were given the impression
>> "if you don't have this book, you'll fail".

We were never given that impression, in fact books were rarely mentioned.

> If the homework assignments are in the book, well, you can't do the
> homework without the book.

At school this was the case, and they always had enough copies of the 
textbook at school to give out to each student (you had to give them all 
back though before you got your final grade).  At University the homework 
questions were just photocopied sheets written by the lecturers rather than 
from a book.

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And lo On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:00:45 +0100, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>  
did spake thusly:

> Warp wrote:
>> the government provides the students with the material they need
>
> Interestingly, my understanding is that "school uniforms" are usually  
> *not* paid for by the government, and the point of the uniforms is to  
> avoid distinguishing wealthy from poor. If everyone buys the same  
> clothes, there's no way to have a status symbol your parents bought for  
> you in that way.
>
> I may be completely mistaken about this, mind.

In theory that's partially correct, however there are normally only two  
unique items in a uniform - the tie and a school patch. Everything else is  
generic and just states 'shirt - blue/white, trousers/skirt - black' so  
you'll still get some kids turning up in Asda/Wal-Mart trousers and some  
in designer ones.

As for the unique items it's often a single store that's given permission  
to sell them and as a result they can charge what they like knowing the  
parents have to buy them. I was speaking to a parent who complained they  
didn't sell a patch itself, just the jackets with the badge already  
affixed and the silly money they wanted for it compared to a supermarket  
own-brand jacket.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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