Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> That's really quite a lot to take in... o_O

You have 20 years of living in the culture to figure it out. :-)

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    C# - a language whose greatest drawback
    is that its best implementation comes
    from a company that doesn't hate Microsoft.

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On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:08:59 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> I recall at uni there were certain books that they said you should
>>> buy.
>>>
>>> Or you could just get them out of the uni library for nothing. Well,
>>> duh.
>> 
>> Yeah, unless it's a classroom textbook - the library isn't likely to
>> keep 100+ copies of it on the shelves....
> 
> Maybe it's just the uni I went to. The largest class in the entire uni
> was, like, 70 people or something.

That's still more copies than a library is likely to keep on hand.

> I remember when we did object-oriented analysis and design, we were all
> ordered to go buy the UML book. I thought "hey, I'll just get it from
> the library". I found the shelf... and it was bare.

Exactly my point. :-)

> Two weeks later, I tried to get the book, and there was at least 30
> copies. But then, as I quickly discovered, the book was useless anyway!
> ;-)

Perhaps nobody was using it at the time (that'd be my guess) - but if 
everyone had to do an assignment from it at the same time, there'd be a 
problem.

Where I went to uni, classes were duplicated as well, so while class 
sizes topped out at about 70 (like yours), there were 3 different times 
the class was offered, which would be 210 students max.

Jim

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On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:25:43 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> Warp wrote:
>> Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>>> I remember when we did object-oriented analysis and design, we were
>>> all ordered to go buy the UML book.
>> 
>>   At least here books are *recommended*, not mandatory. If you can pass
>>   the
>> course without the book, then that's fine. It's just a recommendation
>> of what to buy if you want additional material to help you learn the
>> things taught.
> 
> Yeah, that would make more sense. At my uni we were given the impression
> "if you don't have this book, you'll fail".

If the homework assignments are in the book, well, you can't do the 
homework without the book.

Jim

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On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 06:10:03 -0400, Warp wrote:

>   It would be an example of a *good* use of tax money, as it helps
>   evening
> out the difference between rich and poor (while still not being outright
> communism).

Instead it teaches that conformity is good.  Looking through history, the 
people who made a real difference were not conformists, in general.

People need to learn that independent thought is valued, not conformity.

Jim

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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 06:10:03 -0400, Warp wrote:

> >   It would be an example of a *good* use of tax money, as it helps
> >   evening
> > out the difference between rich and poor (while still not being outright
> > communism).

> Instead it teaches that conformity is good.  Looking through history, the 
> people who made a real difference were not conformists, in general.

> People need to learn that independent thought is valued, not conformity.

  I was not talking about school uniforms in particular, but providing
students with whatever material they need in general.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
news:4c41e21d$1@news.povray.org...
> On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 06:10:03 -0400, Warp wrote:

> >   It would be an example of a *good* use of tax money, as it helps
> >   evening
> > out the difference between rich and poor (while still not being outright
> > communism).

> Instead it teaches that conformity is good.  Looking through history, the
> people who made a real difference

... for bad as well as good ...

> were not conformists, in general.

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On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 14:23:16 -0600, somebody wrote:

> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:4c41e21d$1@news.povray.org...
>> On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 06:10:03 -0400, Warp wrote:
> 
>> >   It would be an example of a *good* use of tax money, as it helps
>> >   evening
>> > out the difference between rich and poor (while still not being
>> > outright communism).
> 
>> Instead it teaches that conformity is good.  Looking through history,
>> the people who made a real difference
> 
> ... for bad as well as good ...

But of course - those who are nonconformists can use their powers for 
good or for evil.

But everyone focuses on the evil ones and not the good ones when trying 
to say that conformity is *good*.

>> were not conformists, in general.

Jim

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On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 14:35:39 -0400, Warp wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 06:10:03 -0400, Warp wrote:
> 
>> >   It would be an example of a *good* use of tax money, as it helps
>> >   evening
>> > out the difference between rich and poor (while still not being
>> > outright communism).
> 
>> Instead it teaches that conformity is good.  Looking through history,
>> the people who made a real difference were not conformists, in general.
> 
>> People need to learn that independent thought is valued, not
>> conformity.
> 
>   I was not talking about school uniforms in particular, but providing
> students with whatever material they need in general.

I would like to see teachers paid a living wage here in the US, that'd be 
a good start.  Too often we hear about teachers who don't get paid well 
enough to begin with that they have to work a second job of some sort, 
and then we hear that they have to take their own hard-earned money and 
invest in classroom supplies for their students.  *That's* certainly not 
right.

Jim

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>> Yeah, that would make more sense. At my uni we were given the impression
>> "if you don't have this book, you'll fail".

We were never given that impression, in fact books were rarely mentioned.

> If the homework assignments are in the book, well, you can't do the
> homework without the book.

At school this was the case, and they always had enough copies of the 
textbook at school to give out to each student (you had to give them all 
back though before you got your final grade).  At University the homework 
questions were just photocopied sheets written by the lecturers rather than 
from a book.

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And lo On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:00:45 +0100, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>  
did spake thusly:

> Warp wrote:
>> the government provides the students with the material they need
>
> Interestingly, my understanding is that "school uniforms" are usually  
> *not* paid for by the government, and the point of the uniforms is to  
> avoid distinguishing wealthy from poor. If everyone buys the same  
> clothes, there's no way to have a status symbol your parents bought for  
> you in that way.
>
> I may be completely mistaken about this, mind.

In theory that's partially correct, however there are normally only two  
unique items in a uniform - the tie and a school patch. Everything else is  
generic and just states 'shirt - blue/white, trousers/skirt - black' so  
you'll still get some kids turning up in Asda/Wal-Mart trousers and some  
in designer ones.

As for the unique items it's often a single store that's given permission  
to sell them and as a result they can charge what they like knowing the  
parents have to buy them. I was speaking to a parent who complained they  
didn't sell a patch itself, just the jackets with the badge already  
affixed and the silly money they wanted for it compared to a supermarket  
own-brand jacket.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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