On 6/12/2010 11:12 AM, clipka wrote:
> Am 12.06.2010 13:11, schrieb Stephen:
>
>>> I don't know. Maybe it's just because it's Saturday morning and *yet
>>> again* I'm sitting all alone in my bedroom feeling bored and lonely,
>>> with nowhere to go and nobody to talk to. Perhaps I just need to go
>>> listen to some more Neil Sekada or something...
>>
>> My sympathies but Neil Sedaka?
>> Listen to something life enhancing like bagpipe music. :-P
>
> Yeah, I second this - punish yourself for your bad mood :-P

LOL...

-- 
~Mike

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On 6/12/2010 12:38 PM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>
>  From what I've seen, *not* being a loser gets you way, way more
> attention. Of a more satisfying kind. (Although not _all_ necessarily
> good...)
>

Loser is a mindset. Drop that mindset. ;)

(Yeah, I know .. easier said than done, it takes time to break a habit, 
but it's a habit worth breaking...)

-- 
~Mike

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On 6/12/2010 3:47 PM, Sabrina Kilian wrote:
>
> Not all cats are elitist fuzz-and-claws. Some fuss when they are more
> than an arms length away from someone. Mine yowls when he has to use his
> litter in the middle of the night, since it means leaving the room.
> Howls on the way out and back, just to wake me up and let me know that I
> am missed. Could do without that, actually.

They also have the advantage of being relatively low maintenance. My one 
cat definitely does not look down upon me. He follows me everywhere and 
curls up on my pillow between my wife and I when we sleep, purring 
loudly ...

-- 
~Mike

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>> perhaps you need a baby.  More than a woman, having to feed a baby 
>> should boost
>> your morale...
> 
> Uh... for the sake of the baby, maybe he should start with a pet >_<

Given my history with pets... both of these suggestions sound like a 
very bad idea.

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On 6/14/2010 7:45 AM, Invisible wrote:
>>> It's the 6510, which is similar to the 6502 that everything else used
>>> but with a few minor alterations. It's not a C64-specific chip though;
>>> just a different model in the range.
>>>
>>
>> But, see, it isn't an off-the-shelf component.
>
> How do you figure that?
>
> MOS Technology made the very successful 6502, so they designed an
> upgraded version, the 6510. It just so happens that Commodore purchased
> the 6510 for their Commodore 64 system. How is that not "off-the-shelf"?
>

If there are any customizations to it, then it is no longer just an 
off-the-shelf device. I'm not sure Commodore did anything custom with 
the 6510, though


>
> Fabricating a 40 nm Intel Core i7 might require high-resolution
> photo-etching such that the fab itself is expensive. If you're just
> throwing a few logic gates together, you won't be using a 40 nm fab. So
> the fabrication costs are quite small; it's setting up the production
> line that costs $$$. And, of course, the design costs. But I would
> imagine tooling up a fab is astronomically expensive. If you aren't
> making 80,000,000 units, it would seem prohibitively expensive.
>

Yeah, OK... but still... clean room. ;) it also depends a lot on the 
size of the die. A larger die is more expensive because the yield is 
actually lower.

>>> More like, they know their clients need a shaker that's guaranteed to
>>> work repeatably, so they can charge anything they like.
>>
>> I'm sure there's a point where the cost would be more than the client
>> will accept.
>
> You wanna bet?
>

I'm sure if the supplier charged £1,000,000 for it, the clients would 
consider alternatives.

>
> Well, the newest mass spectrometer we have was purchased about 5 years
> ago. (Second-hand, obviously. We can only afford to buy the old crap
> that other companies are throwing away.) Still, I gather GPIB is
> supposedly quite popular in scientific applications. (Could explain why
> the PCI GPIB card that goes in the PC is £400. No, you read that
> correctly. £400.)
>
> (Actually, it's £400 from the manufacturer. If you order it from the
> people who manufacture the mass spec machine, it's £900. I'm not kidding.)
>

Hmm, I suppose it makes sense that it would use it. From what I was 
reading it's a standard bus for instrumentation.

FWIW, one of our older machines used something called ProfiBUS, the 
interface card for it is extremely expensive ($1000, iirc) You didn't 
dare screw with the interface card.

>> You still have to have the hardware to execute the commands of the
>> software, and depending on the application it could be much more
>> reliable to have it done in hardware.
>
> If all you're doing is cycling stepper motors, it would seem that all
> you need is some memory-mapped registers and the analogue electronics to
> map a binary digit to a step signal.
>

Well... dealing with multiple sensors where the number of sensors is 
more than the number of IO ports available on the controller or drive, 
then you need to do some kind of logic outside the program in order to 
get conditions from a combination of sensors. You can't easily or 
cheaply add more IO lines than the manufacturer supplies.

Most of what we have done are servo, which is generally analog or PWM.

>> Some things safety related are not controlled by software at all...
>> Take the Emergency Stop on industrial machines, for instance ...
>
> Then again, that's an extremely simple function.

right, but there may be a wired-or situation where if the e-stop for 
example is pressed or a sensor is activated (in one case on a large saw 
there's a rope around the perimeter of the saw, if someone were to get 
pulled into the machine, they'd hit the rope and trigger an e-stop.)

-- 
~Mike

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On 6/14/2010 7:57 AM, Invisible wrote:
>>> perhaps you need a baby.  More than a woman, having to feed a baby
>>> should boost
>>> your morale...
>>
>> Uh... for the sake of the baby, maybe he should start with a pet >_<
>
> Given my history with pets... both of these suggestions sound like a
> very bad idea.

A baby would be very demoralizing.. Don't get that. Colossally bad idea 
if you need a pick me up. They vomit constantly, throw food, leave 
terrible messes, and scream if they don't get attention.

Now, a 3 year old that can old basic conversations and worships the 
ground you walk on .... :) That's less demoralizing, but it took 3 years 
to get there. And he can still be exceptionally stubborn and does things 
just for the purpose of seeing how far he can push things.

So, IOW, terrible idea... ;)

-- 
~Mike

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>> Given my history with pets... both of these suggestions sound like a
>> very bad idea.
> 
> A baby would be very demoralizing.. Don't get that.

Fhahahaha! :-D

What, I can't take it back for a refund?

> Colossally bad idea 
> if you need a pick me up. They vomit constantly, throw food, leave 
> terrible messes, and scream if they don't get attention.

Yeah, I never did quite see the attraction.

Also, those people who say "man, I slept like a baby last night". So... 
you woke up every 90 minutes crying for another feed? o_O

> Now, a 3 year old that can old basic conversations and worships the 
> ground you walk on .... :) That's less demoralizing, but it took 3 years 
> to get there.

Well, every child I've ever met thought I was a dufus (or a punch bag).

> And he can still be exceptionally stubborn and does things 
> just for the purpose of seeing how far he can push things.

It's an important learning experience. ;-)

> So, IOW, terrible idea... ;)

That was my conclusion also, yes.

Also, I would sincerly hope that they don't allow emotionally unstable 
people to adopt small children. (!!)

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Am 14.06.2010 14:33, schrieb Mike Raiford:

 > Judging by the
> other posts I've read, the cost isn't in the fab. Which is surprising,
> given the clean-room requirements and high-resolution photo-etching
> process.

Not surprising if you remember that you have the very same costs for 
off-the-shelf ICs as well.

> Not heard of GPIB, so I looked it up. Apparently aka IEEE-488 surprised
> they're not using Ethernet or something less obsolete... but, there you
> go. ;)

Robust, proven, easy to wire up (no need for hubs), and most of all 
/the/ standard among lab equipment, with plenty of accessories. 
"Obsolete" is something totally different.

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On 6/14/2010 8:48 AM, Invisible wrote:
>
> Fhahahaha! :-D
>
> What, I can't take it back for a refund?
>

Nope. Not even if its defective XD

>> Colossally bad idea if you need a pick me up. They vomit constantly,
>> throw food, leave terrible messes, and scream if they don't get
>> attention.
>
> Yeah, I never did quite see the attraction.
>

Evolutionary biology.

> Also, those people who say "man, I slept like a baby last night". So...
> you woke up every 90 minutes crying for another feed? o_O

Haha.. yeah, well, its true for about the first 3 months, after that, 
they tend to sleep through the night.... mostly.

>> Now, a 3 year old that can old basic conversations and worships the
>> ground you walk on .... :) That's less demoralizing, but it took 3
>> years to get there.
>
> Well, every child I've ever met thought I was a dufus (or a punch bag).
>

Wow... if my kid hit someone there would be serious consequences. I 
don't think he'd think you were a dufus, but then he's only 3 and not 
equipped to judge character yet.

>> And he can still be exceptionally stubborn and does things just for
>> the purpose of seeing how far he can push things.
>
> It's an important learning experience. ;-)
>

Yeah, I know. its part of his process to figure out what the parameters 
of his environment is. He has learned that spitting at people, for 
example, is very highly frowned upon. So now he makes attempts at 
progressively milder actions of a similar vein.

>> So, IOW, terrible idea... ;)
>
> That was my conclusion also, yes.
>
> Also, I would sincerly hope that they don't allow emotionally unstable
> people to adopt small children. (!!)

Well, any emotionally unstable person can breed, so ...

-- 
~Mike

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>> What, I can't take it back for a refund?
> 
> Nope. Not even if its defective XD

What do you mean "if"?

>> Also, those people who say "man, I slept like a baby last night". So...
>> you woke up every 90 minutes crying for another feed? o_O
> 
> Haha.. yeah, well, its true for about the first 3 months, after that, 
> they tend to sleep through the night.... mostly.

Although, on the other hand, I've seen people walking round the streets 
or in Tesco or something with a pushchair containing a small child, 
completely comatose. There's cars flying past, there's people shouting, 
dogs barking, road drills going... not even a blink. Completely sound 
asleep. WTF?

>> Well, every child I've ever met thought I was a dufus (or a punch bag).
>>
> 
> Wow... if my kid hit someone there would be serious consequences.

Yeah, well... the people running my school couldn't be bothered with all 
that "consequences" stuff. Easier to just stand there smoking your fags 
casually paying no attention.

>> Also, I would sincerly hope that they don't allow emotionally unstable
>> people to adopt small children. (!!)
> 
> Well, any emotionally unstable person can breed, so ...

I haven't managed that one yet. Or even come remotely close.

There's "emotionally unstable" and then there's "nobody wants to ****ing 
know you, mate". :-(

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Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/11/2010 10:33 PM, nemesis wrote:
>
> > Designing a GPU for PS4 may sound glamurous, but I guess if you were the
> > japanese guy working 30 hours a day under lots of pressure you'd actually think
> > of suicide... :P
>
> What I didn't realize was that the Japanese were able to alter the very
> fabric of time... 30 hours a day? Really?

do you understand the basics of humor? ;)

in any case, I wouldn't be surprised they do... :)

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Mike Raiford wrote:
> given the clean-room requirements and high-resolution photo-etching 
> process.

Except that it's pretty much mostly automated. It's a huge capital expense, 
and then automated after that. And when there's only a couple of fabs in the 
whole world, the amount of business they get pays off the fab pretty 
quickly. Basically the prices are set to make a decent profit by the time 
the fab's technology is outdated.

> Not heard of GPIB, so I looked it up. Apparently aka IEEE-488 surprised 

Wow. Even *I* heard of both of those years ago. :-)

> they're not using Ethernet or something less obsolete

Which ethernet? Thick? Thin Coax? cat-5?  Test equipment like this is 
expected to last decades.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

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>> they're not using Ethernet or something less obsolete
> 
> Which ethernet? Thick? Thin Coax? cat-5?  Test equipment like this is 
> expected to last decades.

I should maybe point out that these mass spectrometers retail for 
approximately £250,000 *each*. (I.e., this machine is worth more than my 
_house_.)

I have no idea why they're so expensive, mind you...

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Mike Raiford wrote:
> What is groundbreaking about the iphone is it's multi-touch ability.

OK, I'll bite. What *is* groundbreaking about it?

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> There's "emotionally unstable" and then there's "nobody wants to ****ing
> know you, mate". :-(

litterally, huh? ;)

in any case, you should become a lot less unstable precisely by going through
all those issues.  It's called "maturing".  Either that or you'd become more
unstable and get rid of the child and go to jail.  It's called "going nuts".

this was cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=667slY8WIyo&NR=1

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Invisible wrote:
>>> they're not using Ethernet or something less obsolete
>>
>> Which ethernet? Thick? Thin Coax? cat-5?  Test equipment like this is 

>> expected to last decades.
> 
> I should maybe point out that these mass spectrometers retail for 
> approximately £250,000 *each*. 

I'm not sure what that has to do with how "obsolete" or not GPIB is.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Mike Raiford wrote:
> > What is groundbreaking about the iphone is it's multi-touch ability.
>
> OK, I'll bite. What *is* groundbreaking about it?

that it was the first of its kind in consumer electronics?  That it used it
effectivelly in some UI functions, like zooming in and out of photos?

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nemesis wrote:
> that it was the first of its kind in consumer electronics? 

Sorry. I misread that as "That's not what's groundbreaking about the 
iPhone."  Nevermind.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

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>> Judging by the
>> other posts I've read, the cost isn't in the fab. Which is surprising,
>> given the clean-room requirements and high-resolution photo-etching
>> process.
> 
> Not surprising if you remember that you have the very same costs for 
> off-the-shelf ICs as well.

I would have expected that, like most things in manufacturing, the cost 
is all in setting up the production run. Once it's running it can 
probably stamp out identical components very fast and quite cheaply.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>>>> they're not using Ethernet or something less obsolete
>>>
>>> Which ethernet? Thick? Thin Coax? cat-5?  Test equipment like this is 
>>> expected to last decades.
>>
>> I should maybe point out that these mass spectrometers retail for 
>> approximately £250,000 *each*. 
> 
> I'm not sure what that has to do with how "obsolete" or not GPIB is.

Point being that if you pay a quarter of a million dollars for 
something, you don't expect to replace it in 6 months' time.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>>> Don't listen to bored and lonely music when you are bored and lonely.
>> Apparently I'm listening to a different Neil Sedaka than everybody
>> else... The one I have is like liquified sunshine in a bottle.
>>
> 
> Quite possibly I am misremembering. I have heard his named attached to
> some music years back, but I don't remember the tune. Or I am thinking
> of a different artist with a similar name.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7sgdR9Oxs8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fKoWuz0Ow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfEqdhvZItM

Shall I continue?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> Well, the expensive bit is true enough. I just re-checked the Xilinx
>> website and I can't find any starter kits for less than about $200.
> 
> Try Lattice.

OK, I'll take a look.

The other problem of course is that using an FPGA system is like typing 
some stuff into a little black box and getting an answer come out. If I 
wanted to do that, I could just write a small computer program that does 
the same thing, on a real computer. ;-) It seems almost like cheating...

There's something tactile about having a physical box of wires with 
flashing lights in front of you. (Although obviously it's a *hell* of a 
lot more work!)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Am 14.06.2010 20:29, schrieb Orchid XP v8:

>>>> Don't listen to bored and lonely music when you are bored and lonely.
>>> Apparently I'm listening to a different Neil Sedaka than everybody
>>> else... The one I have is like liquified sunshine in a bottle.
>>>
>>
>> Quite possibly I am misremembering. I have heard his named attached to
>> some music years back, but I don't remember the tune. Or I am thinking
>> of a different artist with a similar name.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7sgdR9Oxs8
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fKoWuz0Ow
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfEqdhvZItM

Sony either doesn't like that guy, or doesn't like Germans listening to 
him on Youtube...

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On 14/06/2010 8:23 PM, clipka wrote:
>
> Sony either doesn't like that guy, or doesn't like Germans listening to
> him on Youtube...

Consider yourself lucky ;-)

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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Stephen wrote:

> Consider yourself lucky ;-)

I take it you don't like the Beach Boys either?

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On 15/06/2010 9:10 AM, Invisible wrote:
> Stephen wrote:
>
>> Consider yourself lucky ;-)
>
> I take it you don't like the Beach Boys either?

I could listen to one or two tracks but I’ve moved on since the sixties.

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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>> I take it you don't like the Beach Boys either?
> 
> I could listen to one or two tracks but I’ve moved on since the sixties.

Hmm. My car stereo plays the Beach Boys and Neil Sedaka. My dad's car 
stereo plays My Chemical Romance. Something is wrong with the world...

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On 15/06/2010 10:09 AM, Invisible wrote:
>>> I take it you don't like the Beach Boys either?
>>
>> I could listen to one or two tracks but I’ve moved on since the sixties.
>
> Hmm. My car stereo plays the Beach Boys and Neil Sedaka. My dad's car
> stereo plays My Chemical Romance. Something is wrong with the world...

Quite right, I should know what your father is listening to but I don't.

My car stereo is playing "Equal Rights" by Sir Terry P. :-)

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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Mike Raiford wrote:

> A baby would be very demoralizing.. Don't get that. Colossally bad idea 
> if you need a pick me up. They vomit constantly, throw food, leave 
> terrible messes, and scream if they don't get attention.

"Hi, my name is Ben Fogle. I've rowed across the Atlantic Ocean, I've 
run across the Sahara Desert, and I've journeyed to the North Pole, but 
*nothing* could have prepaired me for this..."

Wah. WaWAAAAH! WAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHA!!

And then we see pictures of Ben holding a very small person.

"My my, we've had some sleepness nights with this one."

Just then, his wife off-camera chips in with "Ben, we had a maternity 
nurse staying here until Thursday".

How coincidental that this just happened to be on TV, eh?

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>>> Don't listen to bored and lonely music when you are bored and lonely.
>>> Apparently I'm listening to a different Neil Sedaka than everybody
>>> else... The one I have is like liquified sunshine in a bottle.
>>>
>>
>> Quite possibly I am misremembering. I have heard his named attached to
>> some music years back, but I don't remember the tune. Or I am thinking
>> of a different artist with a similar name.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7sgdR9Oxs8
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fKoWuz0Ow
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfEqdhvZItM
> 
> Shall I continue?
> 

Nope, not the guy I was thinking of. Searching around lead me to Secada,
who's music is much more what I was expecting from memory. Pesky
syllables, changing their order when my brain wasn't paying attention.

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Invisible wrote:
>>> I thought most PDAs come with a stylus? (Or they have a useless
>>> trackball like that Blackberry I had the misfortune of needing to
>>> configure...)
>> 
>> They do. And how do you think that stylus works? Touch screen! and one
>> of the most rudimentary types, too!
> 
> No, I mean... I thought it only registers touches from the stylus.

The stylus is a plain old piece of plastic. Your fingernail will work just 
as well (your fingertip not so well, but only because you won't have as much 
accuracy tapping small things).

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>> No, I mean... I thought it only registers touches from the stylus.
> 
> The stylus is a plain old piece of plastic. Your fingernail will work just 
> as well (your fingertip not so well, but only because you won't have as much 
> accuracy tapping small things).

Interesting. I thought it contained a magnet or something so that the 
screen could register its presence...

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Invisible wrote:
>>> I take it you don't like the Beach Boys either?
>>
>> I could listen to one or two tracks but I’ve moved on since the sixties.
> 
> Hmm. My car stereo plays the Beach Boys and Neil Sedaka. My dad's car
> stereo plays My Chemical Romance. Something is wrong with the world...

Pet Sounds, or something a little tamer?



Last I heard, my mothers car had Voltaire, Owl City, and what ever
Projekt label mixes I had forgotten to remove from the player. Strange
music for her, I leave these links for others.

Volatire http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu3NN4h5p7k
Owl City http://www.youtube.com/user/OwlCityVEVO#p/u/3/psuRGfAaju4
The Dresden Dolls (possibly NSFW) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4gPZPKJc0s

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Stephen wrote:
> On 13/06/2010 9:05 PM, Sabrina Kilian wrote:
>> Of course. He only responds if I mimic his last type of meow, though.
> 
> That will be the one that says "I am here". It is the meow that sounds
> strangulated.
> 

Yeah, after that he switches to different meow, myurp, bzzzrt noises,
and only responds when you get somewhat close to the last sound he made.
It's a game, but I don't know the rules.

>> If a person did that I would think I was getting language lessons.
> 
> I’ve done it a couple of times to strange cats in friend’s homes. And
> much to their amazement, their cat will come over.
> 
>> Anthropomorphizing just leads to new scars, though, as he may not be
>> elitist but he is still all fuzz-and-claws.
>>
> 
> Our tom cat would not scratch if you had bare skin but if your arms or
> legs were clothed then that was fair game.
> 

He either doesn't know he has sharp claws, or he thinks I am better
armored. Could be either. He knows that stretching his paws and clawing
people gets him pushed off of laps, so that's reduced. But, tapping his
claws on my face does wake me up, and if that is what he is after then
it's hard to counter that positive reward.

The claws I deserve, apparently, for either oversleeping breakfast, or
for having the bad manners to roll over after he has thrown a toy on my bed.

>> While teaching a cat to fetch, it is very fundamental that they
>> understand the concept that fetching is "getting the ball while it is
>> not in your owners hand." When that part isn't taught properly, ouch.
> 
> Well done, I only ever trained Bertie to catch and take away never to
> catch and fetch.
> 

Catch was easy, throw something and it will get swatted the the floor.
If he can get his claws into it, it will get picked up an thrown again
with no help from me.

He's worked up to "Alright, I hit it in your general direction, you
fetch it." That last step is the tough one for cats.

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On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 10:09:53 +0100, Invisible wrote:

>>> I take it you don't like the Beach Boys either?
>> 
>> I could listen to one or two tracks but I’ve moved on since the
>> sixties.
> 
> Hmm. My car stereo plays the Beach Boys and Neil Sedaka. My dad's car
> stereo plays My Chemical Romance. Something is wrong with the world...

Or with your car stereo. ;-)

Jim

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>> Hmm. My car stereo plays the Beach Boys and Neil Sedaka. My dad's car
>> stereo plays My Chemical Romance. Something is wrong with the world...
> 
> Or with your car stereo. ;-)

Actually, my old car refused to play the Beach Boys. Wouldn't recognise 
the CD. It's as if it was trying to tell me something...

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Sabrina Kilian wrote:
> and if that is what he is after then
> it's hard to counter that positive reward.

Keep a squirt bottle by the headboard. He'll soon learn he doesn't want to 
be around you when you wake up.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

Post a reply to this message

On 15/06/2010 4:30 PM, Sabrina Kilian wrote:

> Yeah, after that he switches to different meow, myurp, bzzzrt noises,
> and only responds when you get somewhat close to the last sound he made.
> It's a game, but I don't know the rules.
>

I don't know those words. They learn them from their mothers, you know.
Not every cat speeks.

>
> He either doesn't know he has sharp claws, or he thinks I am better
> armored. Could be either.

A high pitched whine will let him know. But it depends how old he is, 
really.

> He knows that stretching his paws and clawing
> people gets him pushed off of laps, so that's reduced. But, tapping his
> claws on my face does wake me up, and if that is what he is after then
> it's hard to counter that positive reward.
>

LOL. My mother-in-law's cat used to gently bite you upper lip to wake 
you up. Not painful but the FISH BREATH. Yeuch!

> The claws I deserve, apparently, for either oversleeping breakfast, or
> for having the bad manners to roll over after he has thrown a toy on my bed.
>

True :-P


>
> Catch was easy, throw something and it will get swatted the the floor.
> If he can get his claws into it, it will get picked up an thrown again
> with no help from me.
>
> He's worked up to "Alright, I hit it in your general direction, you
> fetch it." That last step is the tough one for cats.

Now, that is him training you ;-)

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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On 6/14/2010 10:40 AM, Darren New wrote:
> Mike Raiford wrote:
>> given the clean-room requirements and high-resolution photo-etching
>> process.
>
> Except that it's pretty much mostly automated. It's a huge capital
> expense, and then automated after that. And when there's only a couple
> of fabs in the whole world, the amount of business they get pays off the
> fab pretty quickly. Basically the prices are set to make a decent profit
> by the time the fab's technology is outdated.
>

Yeah... I kinda got the clue when I was reminded that the $.05 TTL IC 
also requires the same sort of fabrication. ;)

>> Not heard of GPIB, so I looked it up. Apparently aka IEEE-488 surprised
>
> Wow. Even *I* heard of both of those years ago. :-)
>

I haven't .. IEEE-488 sounded vageuely familiar, but I must have been 
thinking RS-485.

>> they're not using Ethernet or something less obsolete
>
> Which ethernet? Thick? Thin Coax? cat-5? Test equipment like this is
> expected to last decades.
>

Cat 5, Cat 5e, Cat 6 ... one of those, UTP or STP.

Of course, that's just the wire. Some of the stuff I worked on used CAN 
bus over STP Cat 6 cable.. A lot of modern control systems use Ethernet 
to communicate with the host, some even use it to communicate from 
device to device, others use CAN.

-- 
~Mike

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>>> they're not using Ethernet or something less obsolete
>>
>> Which ethernet? Thick? Thin Coax? cat-5? Test equipment like this is
>> expected to last decades.
> 
> Cat 5, Cat 5e, Cat 6 ... one of those, UTP or STP.
> 
> Of course, that's just the wire. Some of the stuff I worked on used CAN 
> bus over STP Cat 6 cable.. A lot of modern control systems use Ethernet 
> to communicate with the host, some even use it to communicate from 
> device to device, others use CAN.

Where I work, we have devices which communicate via Ethernet.

Actually no, they don't. They communicate by RS-232. But the 
manufacturers supply an RS-323 over Ethernet box, and software which you 
install on your PC which makes the old RS-232 software think that the 
Ethernet link *is* RS-232.

In other words, you have hardware emulation at one end, and software 
emulation at the other end. And all so that they don't have to, you 
know, actually design their hardware to natively support Ethernet, and 
their software to natively support IP. :-P

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On 6/14/2010 10:47 AM, Invisible wrote:

> I should maybe point out that these mass spectrometers retail for
> approximately £250,000 *each*. (I.e., this machine is worth more than my
> _house_.)

Eh, one of the jigging setups I worked on cost about that much, but it's 
huge, contains a lot of steel, and about 60 or so motors, drives and 
associated hardware (relays, transformers, power supplies, pneumatic 
valves, etc...)


-- 
~Mike

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On 6/14/2010 10:25 AM, nemesis wrote:

> do you understand the basics of humor? ;)
>
> in any case, I wouldn't be surprised they do... :)
>

Apparently not. My attempt at humor obviously failed. :)

I'll try not to be surprised when Sony comes out with the first portable 
time machine that fits in your pocket, then.

-- 
~Mike

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On 6/15/2010 7:43 AM, Invisible wrote:

> "Hi, my name is Ben Fogle. I've rowed across the Atlantic Ocean, I've
> run across the Sahara Desert, and I've journeyed to the North Pole, but
> *nothing* could have prepaired me for this..."
>
> Wah. WaWAAAAH! WAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHA!!
>
> And then we see pictures of Ben holding a very small person.
>
> "My my, we've had some sleepness nights with this one."
>
> Just then, his wife off-camera chips in with "Ben, we had a maternity
> nurse staying here until Thursday".
>
> How coincidental that this just happened to be on TV, eh?

Heh... Hmmm... what to make of that?

-- 
~Mike

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>> I should maybe point out that these mass spectrometers retail for
>> approximately £250,000 *each*. (I.e., this machine is worth more than my
>> _house_.)
> 
> Eh, one of the jigging setups I worked on cost about that much, but it's 
> huge, contains a lot of steel, and about 60 or so motors, drives and 
> associated hardware (relays, transformers, power supplies, pneumatic 
> valves, etc...)

The mass spectrometer requires 6 people to lift safely, so I guess 
there's a lot of metal in it. It also contains vacuum pumps, which take 
about 20 minutes to spin up / spin down. (And much, much longer than 
that to actually pump down to a vacuum.) And it generates a couple of 
kilovolts (but bugger all current) to ionise the sample...

...still not sure exactly why it's so expensive though. Probably design 
time / production volume.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Mike Raiford wrote:

> Heh... Hmmm... what to make of that?

One of the twats I went to school with became a father on Sunday. 
There's pictures on Facebook now. Everybody is like "wow, so cute!" and 
"congrats dude", but my first reaction was "wow, for somebody who just 
GAVE BIRTH, his wife looks really good..."

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On 6/15/2010 1:57 PM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>
> ...still not sure exactly why it's so expensive though. Probably design
> time / production volume.
>

Well, I'm sure the powerful electromagnet and the detector add to the 
expense. Not to mention the serious design time to design a very high 
gain, low noise amplifier.

-- 
~Mike

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On 6/15/2010 1:59 PM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Mike Raiford wrote:
>
>> Heh... Hmmm... what to make of that?
>
> One of the twats I went to school with became a father on Sunday.
> There's pictures on Facebook now. Everybody is like "wow, so cute!" and
> "congrats dude", but my first reaction was "wow, for somebody who just
> GAVE BIRTH, his wife looks really good..."
>

Yyyyeah ... I'm the one who made the comment (to my wife) that he friend 
who just had a baby looked much better than she did when our child was 
born. My wife had a C-Section, the other mother had the baby the normal 
way.

It didn't go over terribly well. Though she jokes about it now.

-- 
~Mike

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>> ...still not sure exactly why it's so expensive though. Probably design
>> time / production volume.
>>
> 
> Well, I'm sure the powerful electromagnet and the detector add to the 
> expense. Not to mention the serious design time to design a very high 
> gain, low noise amplifier.

I'm no expert, but I don't think a mass spectrometer actually requires a 
particularly powerful magnet. (It's only throwing microscopic particles 
around, after all.) The photomultiplier might be expensive; I don't know 
how it works. The ADC is probably quite expensive as chips go (although 
not hundreds of thousands of pounds, I wouldn't have thought).

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> One of the twats I went to school with became a father on Sunday.
>> There's pictures on Facebook now. Everybody is like "wow, so cute!" and
>> "congrats dude", but my first reaction was "wow, for somebody who just
>> GAVE BIRTH, his wife looks really good..."
>>
> 
> Yyyyeah ... I'm the one who made the comment (to my wife) that he friend 
> who just had a baby looked much better than she did when our child was 
> born. My wife had a C-Section, the other mother had the baby the normal 
> way.
> 
> It didn't go over terribly well. Though she jokes about it now.

Heh. Reminds me of when the lady at work had twins. She's a regular bean 
pole, so her walking around with twins was... comical? Maybe not for 
her? It was like a giant melon with a person stuffed through it! LOL.

When she came back to work, she looked... exactly like she did before 
she started. Bean pole. If anything, slightly thinner. The fat lady at 
work was really ****ed off about that. ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On 6/15/2010 3:14 PM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> ...still not sure exactly why it's so expensive though. Probably design
>>> time / production volume.
>>>
>>
>> Well, I'm sure the powerful electromagnet and the detector add to the
>> expense. Not to mention the serious design time to design a very high
>> gain, low noise amplifier.
>
> I'm no expert, but I don't think a mass spectrometer actually requires a
> particularly powerful magnet. (It's only throwing microscopic particles
> around, after all.) The photomultiplier might be expensive; I don't know
> how it works. The ADC is probably quite expensive as chips go (although
> not hundreds of thousands of pounds, I wouldn't have thought).
>

Well, how powerful are the magnets that deflect the electrons in a CRT? 
It has to be powerful enough to deflect the ions moving at the speed 
they're moving enough so they land at different points on the detector 
according to their mass.

Of course I could be (as I usually am) grossly wrong about that.

-- 
~Mike

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