(Note left/right here is for driving on the right, for driving on the left 
countries reverse the left/rights).

Here we have two important rules for multi-lane roads, one is that you 
should only move out to the left to overtake someone, and secondly you are 
not allowed to pass anyone on the right side (there are some exceptions for 
queues etc).  I know it's not like this in all countries.

As anyone who has driven probably knows already, the problem comes when 
someone stays in the left lane when they are not overtaking anyone and you 
want to go faster than them.  What are you meant to do if you are behind 
them in this situation?  What if you are directly behind in the same lane, 
or what if you approach them in the right lane?

I always wanted to ask someone in authority this question as appears there 
is no perfect option.

For me I usually wait around 5 seconds behind them in the same lane, then 
usually pull over to the right lane and wait there for a further 5-10 
seconds leaving them plenty of space to pull over if they want.  If they 
still do not move then I usually accelerate and swiftly pass on the right 
being ready to move over into the hard shoulder if they suddenly decide to 
change lanes.

My girlfriend says that I should flash them and not overtake on the right, 
but IME this is easily interpretted as quite aggressive behaviour and could 
lead to more problems (eg them still not moving over or even worse 
deliberate braking or other aggressive behaviour).

What do you do?

Post a reply to this message

On 07/06/2010 9:26 AM, scott wrote:
>
> My girlfriend says that I should flash them and not overtake on the
> right, but IME this is easily interpretted as quite aggressive behaviour
> and could lead to more problems (eg them still not moving over or even
> worse deliberate braking or other aggressive behaviour).
>
> What do you do?

IMO your girlfriend is right, undertaking is wrong. It seems the fashion 
ATM is to indicate you are going to overtake and if the driver is nor 
paying attention a short flash of your headlights generally does the trick.

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Stephen <mca### [at] aolDOTcom> wrote:
> On 07/06/2010 9:26 AM, scott wrote:
> >
> > My girlfriend says that I should flash them and not overtake on the
> > right, but IME this is easily interpretted as quite aggressive behaviour
> > and could lead to more problems (eg them still not moving over or even
> > worse deliberate braking or other aggressive behaviour).
> >
> > What do you do?
>
> IMO your girlfriend is right, undertaking is wrong. It seems the fashion
> ATM is to indicate you are going to overtake and if the driver is nor
> paying attention a short flash of your headlights generally does the trick.

While I agree that undertaking is against the rules, I tend to do pretty much
what Scott does. Except that I keep going without any change in my speed, albeit
with a greater degree of alertness for sudden feckless lane-changes. My
reasoning is that it's probably safer to undertake than attempt multiple
lane-changes on a busy road (no other sort around here!)... and you never know,
maybe a 20-year-old 1.1L banger undertaking them will make it even more obvious
that they're in the wrong lane... :)

I strongly suspect that in the majority of cases, it is not simple
absent-mindedness but a deep-seated and utter lack of a) understanding of the
rules and b) common sense. MI5-issue wheel-laser on order.

Bill

Post a reply to this message

>> My girlfriend says that I should flash them and not overtake on the
>> right, but IME this is easily interpretted as quite aggressive behaviour
>> and could lead to more problems (eg them still not moving over or even
>> worse deliberate braking or other aggressive behaviour).
>>
>> What do you do?
>
> IMO your girlfriend is right, undertaking is wrong. It seems the fashion 
> ATM is to indicate you are going to overtake and if the driver is nor 
> paying attention a short flash of your headlights generally does the 
> trick.

Yes, I went through a phase of doing this, and most of the time it does 
work.  I put this down to the fact that most of the drivers doing this are 
just not thinking and totally unaware of what is going on around them, a 
quick flash lets them know you are there, and then they know the correct 
thing is to pull over.

But, I had a couple of occasions where my flash was interpreted as an 
aggressive gesture, and the driver ahead reacted accordingly.  In one case 
he didn't move over but gradually slowed down, in the other case he moved 
over, but just as I was about to pass he swerved back in front of me causing 
me to brake hard.  Since then I stopped flashing people to avoid risking 
something like that happening again.

Post a reply to this message

On 07/06/2010 12:54 PM, scott wrote:
>
> But, I had a couple of occasions where my flash was interpreted as an
> aggressive gesture, and the driver ahead reacted accordingly.  In one
> case he didn't move over but gradually slowed down, in the other case he
> moved over, but just as I was about to pass he swerved back in front of
> me causing me to brake hard.  Since then I stopped flashing people to
> avoid risking something like that happening again.

Maybe it wasn’t the flash that was interpreted as an aggressive gesture. 
How close were you driving to the car?
Tailgating is one of the things that irritate me most.

My worst habit is “hogging” the centre lane on three lane roads. I just 
refuse to drive in the slow lane when I know that every couple of 
minutes I will have to pull out and cross at least one lane.

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
> What do you do?

I've had a few problems with the CLOC. (Center Lane Owners Club.) 
Annoying, isn't it? Still, sometimes there just isn't a lot you can do.

Post a reply to this message

> Maybe it wasn’t the flash that was interpreted as an aggressive gesture. 
> How close were you driving to the car?
> Tailgating is one of the things that irritate me most.

Yeh me too, personally I have two distances that I usually use.  One for "I 
am happy to go the same speed as you", which I guess is around a 4 second 
gap.  The other is "i want to go faster, please move over when you can", but 
it certainly is not anything close to tailgating, usually still the largest 
gap on the road!

> My worst habit is “hogging” the centre lane on three lane roads. I just 
> refuse to drive in the slow lane when I know that every couple of minutes 
> I will have to pull out and cross at least one lane.

I don't mind people doing that, as long as it is not so busy that they are 
causing people behind to slow down unnecessarily (when people in lane 2 have 
to either brake or pull out into lane 3 thus causing people already in lane 
3 to brake).  The worst is when you come up behind a middle-lane hogger, you 
can't overtake on the correct side because there's a train of cars going 
20mph faster than you, and the "slow" lane is empty, thus you have to slow 
down and wait for no reason or perform an illegal undertake.

BTW there's nothing wrong with changing lanes every couple of minutes, most 
autobahns here away from the cities are 2-lanes, and unless you drive 50 or 
150 mph you'll be changing lanes usually at least once a minute.

Post a reply to this message

>> What do you do?
>
> I've had a few problems with the CLOC. (Center Lane Owners Club.) 
> Annoying, isn't it? Still, sometimes there just isn't a lot you can do.

On 3-lane roads it less of a problem (I've very rarely seen an outside lane 
hogger on a 3 lane road that wasn't going really fast), you can usually 
overtake CLOCs eventually without issue.

Post a reply to this message

"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> Yeh me too, personally I have two distances that I usually use.  One for "I
> am happy to go the same speed as you", which I guess is around a 4 second
> gap.  The other is "i want to go faster, please move over when you can", but
> it certainly is not anything close to tailgating, usually still the largest
> gap on the road!

The worst is when you leave a gap and someone pulls up and slides into it, like
"ooh a couple of feet clearance, that'll do". It's not their gap, it's mine!

Post a reply to this message

On 07/06/2010 1:48 PM, scott wrote:
>> Maybe it wasn’t the flash that was interpreted as an aggressive
>> gesture. How close were you driving to the car?
>> Tailgating is one of the things that irritate me most.
>
> Yeh me too, personally I have two distances that I usually use. One for
> "I am happy to go the same speed as you", which I guess is around a 4
> second gap. The other is "i want to go faster, please move over when you
> can", but it certainly is not anything close to tailgating, usually
> still the largest gap on the road!
>

My definition of tailgating is when I can’t see the front wheels of the 
car behind, in my rear view mirror. The other thing I forgot to mention 
are those drivers who overtake you and pull in about 4 feet in front of you.

>> My worst habit is “hogging” the centre lane on three lane roads. I
>> just refuse to drive in the slow lane when I know that every couple of
>> minutes I will have to pull out and cross at least one lane.
>
> I don't mind people doing that, as long as it is not so busy that they
> are causing people behind to slow down unnecessarily (when people in
> lane 2 have to either brake or pull out into lane 3 thus causing people
> already in lane 3 to brake).

Right.

> The worst is when you come up behind a
> middle-lane hogger, you can't overtake on the correct side because
> there's a train of cars going 20mph faster than you, and the "slow" lane
> is empty, thus you have to slow down and wait for no reason or perform
> an illegal undertake.

That is inconsiderate. :-(

>
> BTW there's nothing wrong with changing lanes every couple of minutes,
> most autobahns here away from the cities are 2-lanes, and unless you
> drive 50 or 150 mph you'll be changing lanes usually at least once a
> minute.

Yes every couple of minutes is OK, I was being imprecise. It is the car 
that is travelling at 80 – 90 mph (at least) in the LH lane that pulls 
out into the RH lane. Overtakes and returns into the LH lane only to 
repeat the manoeuvre 10 seconds later that gets on my wick.

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>>> What do you do?
>>
>> I've had a few problems with the CLOC. (Center Lane Owners Club.) 
>> Annoying, isn't it? Still, sometimes there just isn't a lot you can do.
> 
> On 3-lane roads it less of a problem (I've very rarely seen an outside 
> lane hogger on a 3 lane road that wasn't going really fast), you can 
> usually overtake CLOCs eventually without issue.

The fun happens when you have a CLOC travelling at 50, so some truck 
decides he wants to overtake it at 55. So you now have the CLOC blocking 
the middle lane, and the truck blocking the fast lane.

I've seen it result in utter mayhem as a huge queue develops in the fast 
lane, and in the middle lane because people haven't grabbed the fast 
lane soon enough, and *then* some rich twat in his expensive BMW comes 
along and undertakes along the slow lane and then tries to dice around 
with the traffic merging from the correct side...

All this trouble and strife just because some foreigner doesn't know how 
to drive properly. :-P

Actually, I recall that on my driving theory test, one of the questions 
was about this. Something like "which lane do you use?" and the options 
were "any lane", "the lane with the least traffic in it", "the left 
lane" or "the left lane except when overtaking". If you didn't know, 
some of those other options do actually sound plausible... I guess a lot 
of people don't know. (Or just aren't paying attention to where they're 
going...)

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
> (Note left/right here is for driving on the right, for driving on the 
> left countries reverse the left/rights).
> 
> Here we have two important rules for multi-lane roads, one is that you 
> should only move out to the left to overtake someone, and secondly you 
> are not allowed to pass anyone on the right side (there are some 
> exceptions for queues etc).  I know it's not like this in all countries.
> 
> As anyone who has driven probably knows already, the problem comes when 
> someone stays in the left lane when they are not overtaking anyone and 
> you want to go faster than them.  What are you meant to do if you are 
> behind them in this situation?  What if you are directly behind in the 
> same lane, or what if you approach them in the right lane?
> 
> I always wanted to ask someone in authority this question as appears 
> there is no perfect option.
> 
> For me I usually wait around 5 seconds behind them in the same lane, 
> then usually pull over to the right lane and wait there for a further 
> 5-10 seconds leaving them plenty of space to pull over if they want.  If 
> they still do not move then I usually accelerate and swiftly pass on the 
> right being ready to move over into the hard shoulder if they suddenly 
> decide to change lanes.
> 
> My girlfriend says that I should flash them and not overtake on the 
> right, but IME this is easily interpretted as quite aggressive behaviour 
> and could lead to more problems (eg them still not moving over or even 
> worse deliberate braking or other aggressive behaviour).
> 
> What do you do?

I am not aware of any law in my jurisdiction prohibiting passing on the 
right, so that's what I would do.  If the lanehog thinks this is rude, 
then maybe he/she/it ought to learn some manners and make the maneuver 
unnecessary.

And why should passing on the right be any more dangerous than passing 
on the left?  Drivers are supposed to check for other vehicles when 
performing any lane change.

My peeve has always come on portions of divided highways where there are 
two lanes in each direction:  The driver being passed is going at a 
certain speed (say, 60 mph), and the driver who is passing is going just 
slightly above that speed (say, 60.1 mph), so that by the time he gets 
past and goes into the non-passing lane (if he does), I and a dozen 
others are backed up behind him.

Regards,
John

Post a reply to this message

John VanSickle wrote:

> My peeve has always come on portions of divided highways where there are 
> two lanes in each direction:  The driver being passed is going at a 
> certain speed (say, 60 mph), and the driver who is passing is going just 
> slightly above that speed (say, 60.1 mph), so that by the time he gets 
> past and goes into the non-passing lane (if he does), I and a dozen 
> others are backed up behind him.

Extra fun: Some guy is doing 65 MPH, so you go to overtake. But as soon 
as you do this, the driver wakes up and decies to speed up. And no 
matter how fast you go, you can't get past.

Post a reply to this message

On 6/7/2010 7:22 AM, Stephen wrote:

>
> Maybe it wasn’t the flash that was interpreted as an aggressive gesture.
> How close were you driving to the car?
> Tailgating is one of the things that irritate me most.
>

Yep, Somebody parked on my bumper and flashing their headlights are not 
going to get the desired result from me.

It's a bit annoying when someone rides your bumper as you're in the 
passing lane and overtaking. I generally don't have a desire to drive 
80mph down the road, but I also don't want to be stuck by the ninny 
driving 60mph when the speed limit is 70mph.

What's worse is when you're stuck behind someone driving at 50mph, and 
the fast lane is  moving at 80mph.

> My worst habit is “hogging” the centre lane on three lane roads. I just
> refuse to drive in the slow lane when I know that every couple of
> minutes I will have to pull out and cross at least one lane.
>

Eh, my view on it is this for 3 lanes each way:

* The left lane is passing. Use this to overtake, don't hang out for too 
long, get back over when it is safe to do so.

* The right lane is for vehicles entering/exiting the freeway. Hanging 
out in this lane means you'll need to deal with those who don't seem to 
want to merge at the flow of traffic.

* The center lane is best for general driving. Provided you move to the 
right well before your exit comes up so you're not cutting someone off.

On a related note:

* The acceleration lanes for entering the freeway ARE NOT PASSING LANES. 
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO PASS VEHICLES IN THIS LANE. You'll run out of road and 
cut off the vehicle you're passing, or worse. This is my biggest pet 
peeve, and has happened numerous times at one particular spot on the way 
home. I actually had one kid try to run me off the road after blasting 
my horn at him for nearly taking out my front bumper as he attempted 
this maneuver.

Anyhoo ... back to better subjects.. ;)

-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

> My definition of tailgating is when I can’t see the front wheels of the 
> car behind, in my rear view mirror. The other thing I forgot to mention 
> are those drivers who overtake you and pull in about 4 feet in front of 
> you.

So long as they are going faster than me (so the gap is increasing) I don't 
mind that so much.  Another thing which is funny is the people who overtake 
you, pull back in, and then slow down forcing you to overtake them back!

> Yes every couple of minutes is OK, I was being imprecise. It is the car 
> that is travelling at 80 – 90 mph (at least) in the LH lane that pulls out 
> into the RH lane. Overtakes and returns into the LH lane only to repeat 
> the manoeuvre 10 seconds later that gets on my wick.

Yeh that's an unnecessary risk to take, generally if I can see that nobody 
is behind me I don't pull back over unless it is quite a big gap (ie I 
wouldn't actually be overtaking anyone for the next 2 minutes).  If there is 
a car behind me I usually try to estimate how quickly he will pass me if I 
move over (you can usually tell quite well from how quickly they approached 
you).  If the driver is obviously wanting to go pretty quickly and looks 
like he has a powerful car then I'll move over into a quite a small gap, 
knowing that I can probably pull back out again pretty soon without having 
to slow down at all.

Post a reply to this message

> * The acceleration lanes for entering the freeway ARE NOT PASSING LANES. 
> DO NOT ATTEMPT TO PASS VEHICLES IN THIS LANE.

Also, you are meant to ACCELERATE in these lanes!  On Saturday I followed a 
car that stayed at a steady 40-50 km/hr and attempted to join a pretty empty 
autobahn where the cars were doing ~120 km/hr.  When you're stuck behind one 
of these people there isn't much you can do, and you will be the one who 
gets the horn blast and flashing lights for pulling out so slowly.

Post a reply to this message

> Actually, I recall that on my driving theory test, one of the questions 
> was about this. Something like "which lane do you use?" and the options 
> were "any lane", "the lane with the least traffic in it", "the left lane" 
> or "the left lane except when overtaking". If you didn't know, some of 
> those other options do actually sound plausible... I guess a lot of people 
> don't know. (Or just aren't paying attention to where they're going...)

Thing is, you can get that question wrong and never drive on a motorway, let 
alone have these things explained to you, then you get your full driving 
license.  It's no wonder so many people get it wrong.

Post a reply to this message

> My peeve has always come on portions of divided highways where there are 
> two lanes in each direction:  The driver being passed is going at a 
> certain speed (say, 60 mph), and the driver who is passing is going just 
> slightly above that speed (say, 60.1 mph), so that by the time he gets 
> past and goes into the non-passing lane (if he does), I and a dozen others 
> are backed up behind him.

IIRC we recently got a law here that said you are not allowed to overtake 
for longer than 45 seconds.  It's meant for trucks (they are all physically 
limited to 90 km/hr in Europe) but I think it applies to cars too.

As usual though, I doubt it will ever get enforced, the police much prefer 
to just leave a speed camera for a day so they can go off and do other 
stuff.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:

> Thing is, you can get that question wrong and never drive on a motorway, 
> let alone have these things explained to you, then you get your full 
> driving license.  It's no wonder so many people get it wrong.

They say that air travel is statically the safest way to travel. And it 
is! Think about it: Any random weirdo can apply and get a provisional 
driving license and go drive around (theoretically with a qualified 
driver supervising them) the same day. WTF is *that* about??

By contrast, becoming a commercial aviation pilot takes years. And there 
has to be two of you. And the entire plane undergoes regular mechanical 
checks. (Theoretically you're supposed to check your tires every time 
your drive your car. HOW MANY PEOPLE DO THIS??) And you've got air 
traffic control directing you. And... get the picture?

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>  which I guess is around a 4 second gap.  

Four seconds *is* tailgating at any speed where you're worried about going 
faster.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
> you're stuck behind one of these people there isn't much you can do,

Look ahead, recognise it, fall back before you even get to the ramp, and let 
the bozo get into traffic before you hit the gas yourself to get up to speed.


-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> Extra fun: Some guy is doing 65 MPH, so you go to overtake. But as soon 
> as you do this, the driver wakes up and decies to speed up. And no 
> matter how fast you go, you can't get past.

Yep. Or on a road with restricted passing, and going uphill you can't pass 
but going downhill you can, and the bozo decides he'll just press the pedal 
the same regardless of how steep a hill he's going up or down.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

Post a reply to this message

>> you're stuck behind one of these people there isn't much you can do,
>
> Look ahead, recognise it, fall back before you even get to the ramp, and 
> let the bozo get into traffic before you hit the gas yourself to get up to 
> speed.

The problem is on this particular on-ramp there is quite a sharp corner 
right before it, where the normal speed is about 50-60, so at this point I 
had no idea the person wasn't going to accelerate out of the corner as 
usual.

But yes, I try to use that method whenever possible.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
> The problem is on this particular on-ramp there is quite a sharp corner 
> right before it, where the normal speed is about 50-60, so at this point 
> I had no idea the person wasn't going to accelerate out of the corner as 
> usual.

Yep, we have that here too. And it's uphill, and a blind curve (well, blind 
given it's a 70MPH expressway) for the people not merging, and the merge 
length is only a few car lengths, and there's an exit right after that 
people on the expressway are angling towards too.

I've learned to watch the goobers even before getting to the ramp, and I've 
learned to hang back anyway in case.  But I try to avoid that ramp when I 
have a choice, too, just because it's so poorly engineered.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

Post a reply to this message

On 6/7/2010 4:26 AM, scott wrote:
> (Note left/right here is for driving on the right, for driving on the
> left countries reverse the left/rights).
>
> Here we have two important rules for multi-lane roads, one is that you
> should only move out to the left to overtake someone, and secondly you
> are not allowed to pass anyone on the right side (there are some
> exceptions for queues etc). I know it's not like this in all countries.
>
> As anyone who has driven probably knows already, the problem comes when
> someone stays in the left lane when they are not overtaking anyone and
> you want to go faster than them. What are you meant to do if you are
> behind them in this situation? What if you are directly behind in the
> same lane, or what if you approach them in the right lane?
>
> What do you do?
>

I typically give the left lane drive plenty of room - I do not like to 
tailgate.  Then when I see they have lost and lots of room to move over 
I will creep up slightly and if the do not move over I will flash my 
lights.  Usually that works without trouble.  If they still do not move 
over I will move over and undertake - tho I loathe doing it - but at 
times there is little other choice.

I am frustrated by people who immediately try to undertake at the 
earliest opportunity - I will get out of their way, when it is safe to 
move over where I am not too close to the car I just passed.

Those who drive in the undertaking lane are causing a traffic hazard.  I 
find it ironic that a lot of them think they are making things safer - 
"I am going fast enough and anyone who passes is an idiot that is going 
to cause an accident."  Yet they do not realize that they themselves are 
causing that 'idiot' to make risky moves that can endanger lives of 
everyone around.



My philosophy is to respect all other drivers on the road.  Give them 
plenty of room and move out of their way when practical and safe.  I 
don't care how fast someone drives - it's just how they drive and react 
to others on the road.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:


> should only move out to the left to overtake someone, 

Are you sure? About the 'only', I mean.  New York State Law does say 
that the driver of an overtaken vehicle shall give way to the right in 
favor of the overtaking vehicle on audible signal, 'except when 
overtaking and passing on the right is permitted' (which it probably is 
in the situations you are describing)

and secondly you
> are not allowed to pass anyone on the right side (there are some 
> exceptions for queues etc).  

In NY traffic Law the notion of 'safely' comes into it.  So if you 
cannot pass to the right 'safely' then you cannot do it.  But in 
general, if there are two or more unobstructed traffic lanes in the same 
direction, you are allowed to pass on the right. (Got a copy of Vehicle 
& Traffic Law for State of New York right in front of my eyes here, it's 
Section 1123)



> 
> As anyone who has driven probably knows already, the problem comes when 
> someone stays in the left lane when they are not overtaking anyone and 
> you want to go faster than them.  What are you meant to do if you are 
> behind them in this situation?  What if you are directly behind in the 
> same lane, or what if you approach them in the right lane?
> 
> I always wanted to ask someone in authority this question as appears 
> there is no perfect option.
> 
> For me I usually wait around 5 seconds behind them in the same lane, 
> then usually pull over to the right lane and wait there for a further 
> 5-10 seconds leaving them plenty of space to pull over if they want.  If 
> they still do not move then I usually accelerate and swiftly pass on the 
> right being ready to move over into the hard shoulder if they suddenly 
> decide to change lanes.
> 
> My girlfriend says that I should flash them and not overtake on the 
> right, but IME this is easily interpretted as quite aggressive behaviour 
> and could lead to more problems (eg them still not moving over or even 
> worse deliberate braking or other aggressive behaviour).
> 
> What do you do?
> 
> 

I would pass safely to the right unless I really needed that lane to 
exit or turn, in which case I would just follow the other car.  Which 
brings up something you haven't factored in.  Certainly around metro NY 
multi-lane roadways are complex to the point where drivers cannot assume 
that the left lane will function solely as a passing lane for any great 
distance.  You constantly have traffic entering or exiting the roadway 
from the left, and navigating here is often about lane choice well in 
advance of a maneuver you want to make.

In the hyper-pressurized driving conditions around NYC one common 
practice is to give a soft waring toot before passing, if the 
circumstance seems a little unconventional, (ie. to the right in some 
situations,) or potentially dangerous in some way.

Post a reply to this message

you can read Section 1123 here:
http://ypdcrime.com/vt/article25.htm

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 12:30:47 -0400, Tom Austin wrote:

> Those who drive in the undertaking lane are causing a traffic hazard.

I've found this thread quite interesting; I learned that one should never 
undertake (never heard it called that before; "pass on the right" is how 
it was explained to me), and so I try to avoid doing that myself.

I agree with your philosophy, though, and I wish more people held that 
idea.  When driving a ton or more of metal at 65+ MPH on the freeway, a 
little respect goes a long ways towards saving lives.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On 07/06/2010 6:28 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 12:30:47 -0400, Tom Austin wrote:
>
>> Those who drive in the undertaking lane are causing a traffic hazard.
>
> I've found this thread quite interesting; I learned that one should never
> undertake (never heard it called that before; "pass on the right" is how
> it was explained to me), and so I try to avoid doing that myself.
>

Undertaking implies death and shows disapproval. I never do it.

> I agree with your philosophy, though, and I wish more people held that
> idea.  When driving a ton or more of metal at 65+ MPH on the freeway, a
> little respect goes a long ways towards saving lives.
>

LOL In the UK doing a ton means driving at 100 mph.


-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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On 07/06/2010 5:49 PM, Jim Charter wrote:
> In the hyper-pressurized driving conditions around NYC one common
> practice is to give a soft waring toot before passing, if the
> circumstance seems a little unconventional, (ie. to the right in some
> situations,) or potentially dangerous in some way.

It used to be customary here to beep or flash your lights when passing a 
heavy goods vehicle. I don’t know if people still do it.

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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On 6/7/2010 9:07 AM, scott wrote:
>> * The acceleration lanes for entering the freeway ARE NOT PASSING
>> LANES. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO PASS VEHICLES IN THIS LANE.
>
> Also, you are meant to ACCELERATE in these lanes! On Saturday I followed
> a car that stayed at a steady 40-50 km/hr and attempted to join a pretty
> empty autobahn where the cars were doing ~120 km/hr. When you're stuck
> behind one of these people there isn't much you can do, and you will be
> the one who gets the horn blast and flashing lights for pulling out so
> slowly.

Gah!  Yet another peeve... but, yeah. Needless to say merging onto a 
70mph road at 50mph is not going to win you any friends.
-- 
~Mike

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On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 18:56:26 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 07/06/2010 6:28 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 12:30:47 -0400, Tom Austin wrote:
>>
>>> Those who drive in the undertaking lane are causing a traffic hazard.
>>
>> I've found this thread quite interesting; I learned that one should
>> never undertake (never heard it called that before; "pass on the right"
>> is how it was explained to me), and so I try to avoid doing that
>> myself.
>>
>>
> Undertaking implies death and shows disapproval. I never do it.

LOL, I missed that definition entirely. :-)

>> I agree with your philosophy, though, and I wish more people held that
>> idea.  When driving a ton or more of metal at 65+ MPH on the freeway, a
>> little respect goes a long ways towards saving lives.
>>
>>
> LOL In the UK doing a ton means driving at 100 mph.

Interesting, I didn't know that. :-)

Jim

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On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 19:00:31 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 07/06/2010 5:49 PM, Jim Charter wrote:
>> In the hyper-pressurized driving conditions around NYC one common
>> practice is to give a soft waring toot before passing, if the
>> circumstance seems a little unconventional, (ie. to the right in some
>> situations,) or potentially dangerous in some way.
> 
> It used to be customary here to beep or flash your lights when passing a
> heavy goods vehicle. I don’t know if people still do it.

Same here - I flash my lights (when an 18-wheeler is looking to move 
over, for example), and I occasionally flash my lights with 'normal' 
traffic, but that's pretty rare unless someone seems to be being almost 
intentionally stubborn about moving over.

I rarely use the horn.

Jim

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On 07/06/2010 3:04 PM, scott wrote:
>> My definition of tailgating is when I can’t see the front wheels of
>> the car behind, in my rear view mirror. The other thing I forgot to
>> mention are those drivers who overtake you and pull in about 4 feet in
>> front of you.
>
> So long as they are going faster than me (so the gap is increasing) I
> don't mind that so much.

Right!

> Another thing which is funny is the people who
> overtake you, pull back in, and then slow down forcing you to overtake
> them back!
>

You call that funny?
LOL

>> Yes every couple of minutes is OK, I was being imprecise. It is the
>> car that is travelling at 80 – 90 mph (at least) in the LH lane that
>> pulls out into the RH lane. Overtakes and returns into the LH lane
>> only to repeat the manoeuvre 10 seconds later that gets on my wick.
>
> Yeh that's an unnecessary risk to take, generally if I can see that
> nobody is behind me I don't pull back over unless it is quite a big gap
> (ie I wouldn't actually be overtaking anyone for the next 2 minutes). If
> there is a car behind me I usually try to estimate how quickly he will
> pass me if I move over (you can usually tell quite well from how quickly
> they approached you). If the driver is obviously wanting to go pretty
> quickly and looks like he has a powerful car then I'll move over into a
> quite a small gap, knowing that I can probably pull back out again
> pretty soon without having to slow down at all.
>
>

Good driving IMO.

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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On 07/06/2010 2:47 PM, Mike Raiford wrote:
>
> Yep, Somebody parked on my bumper and flashing their headlights are not
> going to get the desired result from me.
>

Too true ;-)

> It's a bit annoying when someone rides your bumper as you're in the
> passing lane and overtaking. I generally don't have a desire to drive
> 80mph down the road,

You don't? < 10 mph over the speed limit seems to be OK here, even from 
the Polis

> but I also don't want to be stuck by the ninny
> driving 60mph when the speed limit is 70mph.
>

Borrow Bill's MI5-issue wheel-laser, ;-)

Do you remember the toy that made machine gun and Ray Gun noises that 
fitted on your dashboard?

> What's worse is when you're stuck behind someone driving at 50mph, and
> the fast lane is moving at 80mph.
>

I think that you are allowed to beep your horn in that case.

>
> Eh, my view on it is this for 3 lanes each way:
> [Snip]

That is exactly how I view it. (If you read left for right)


>
> On a related note:
>
> * The acceleration lanes for entering the freeway ARE NOT PASSING LANES.
> DO NOT ATTEMPT TO PASS VEHICLES IN THIS LANE. You'll run out of road and
> cut off the vehicle you're passing, or worse. This is my biggest pet
> peeve, and has happened numerous times at one particular spot on the way
> home. I actually had one kid try to run me off the road after blasting
> my horn at him for nearly taking out my front bumper as he attempted
> this maneuver.
>

I’ve been doing a lot of 200 plus mile journeys on motorways, this last 
year.
I’ve noticed our two lane slipways are now segregated (by white lines) 
so that outside lane joins the motorway first and the inside lane joins 
about a quarter of a mile later.


-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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On 07/06/2010 7:40 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:

> I rarely use the horn.
>

O_O ???

;-)

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 20:09:22 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 07/06/2010 7:40 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> I rarely use the horn.
>>
>>
> O_O ???
> 
> ;-)

Not *that* horn, the one in the car. ;-)

(Largely because of where the switches are positioned - by the time I 
remember, the moment has passed)

Jim

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On 07/06/2010 8:13 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 20:09:22 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>> On 07/06/2010 7:40 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>
>>> I rarely use the horn.
>>>
>>>
>> O_O ???
>>
>> ;-)
>
> Not *that* horn, the one in the car. ;-)
>
> (Largely because of where the switches are positioned - by the time I
> remember, the moment has passed)
>

LOL I know that feeling ;-)

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 20:30:30 +0100, Stephen wrote:

>> Not *that* horn, the one in the car. ;-)
>>
>> (Largely because of where the switches are positioned - by the time I
>> remember, the moment has passed)
>>
>>
> LOL I know that feeling ;-)

I used to get frustrated when I went to honk the horn and found I was 
just pressing on the airbag. ;-)

Jim

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On 07/06/2010 9:00 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> (Largely because of where the switches are positioned - by the time I
>>> remember, the moment has passed)
>>>
>>>
>> LOL I know that feeling ;-)
>
> I used to get frustrated when I went to honk the horn and found I was
> just pressing on the airbag. ;-)
>

Oh! You’re still talking about cars. ;-)

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 21:11:48 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 07/06/2010 9:00 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> (Largely because of where the switches are positioned - by the time I
>>>> remember, the moment has passed)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> LOL I know that feeling ;-)
>>
>> I used to get frustrated when I went to honk the horn and found I was
>> just pressing on the airbag. ;-)
>>
>>
> Oh! You’re still talking about cars. ;-)

Indeed - I don't want to know where your switches are located. ;-)

Jim

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On 07/06/2010 9:13 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> Indeed - I don't want to know where your switches are located.;-)

'Nuff said.

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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On 6/7/2010 2:06 PM, Stephen wrote:

> You don't? < 10 mph over the speed limit seems to be OK here, even from
> the Polis

Depends on the city, really. I generally try to keep it 5 or less over. 
10 over can be pushing it if you have a city that's particularly 
interested in using the highway as a revenue stream


> Do you remember the toy that made machine gun and Ray Gun noises that
> fitted on your dashboard?

I think I do... :)

>> What's worse is when you're stuck behind someone driving at 50mph, and
>> the fast lane is moving at 80mph.
>>
>
> I think that you are allowed to beep your horn in that case.
>

I'm sure its permissible... But this is Texas, and Texans lurrrve their 
guns. :)



-- 
~Mike

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> Indeed - I don't want to know where your switches are located. ;-)

I think you just found the switch to the overshare light.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

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On 07/06/2010 9:19 PM, Mike Raiford wrote:
> On 6/7/2010 2:06 PM, Stephen wrote:
>
>> You don't? < 10 mph over the speed limit seems to be OK here, even from
>> the Polis
>
> Depends on the city, really. I generally try to keep it 5 or less over.
> 10 over can be pushing it if you have a city that's particularly
> interested in using the highway as a revenue stream
>
>

Our Motorways don't belong to cities.

>> Do you remember the toy that made machine gun and Ray Gun noises that
>> fitted on your dashboard?
>
> I think I do... :)
>

You must be old :-P

>>> What's worse is when you're stuck behind someone driving at 50mph, and
>>> the fast lane is moving at 80mph.
>>>
>>
>> I think that you are allowed to beep your horn in that case.
>>
>
> I'm sure its permissible... But this is Texas, and Texans lurrrve their
> guns. :)
>

F*ck! I forgot that. :-)


-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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>> Indeed - I don't want to know where your switches are located. ;-)
> 
> I think you just found the switch to the overshare light.

Whatever turns you on...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On 6/7/2010 3:41 PM, Stephen wrote:

>
> Our Motorways don't belong to cities.
>

Here the city can patrol any road that passes through it for traffic 
infractions. regardless of who maintains it.

>>> Do you remember the toy that made machine gun and Ray Gun noises that
>>> fitted on your dashboard?
>>
>> I think I do... :)
>>
>
> You must be old :-P
>

Not that old! And I was a mere kid when those things came out. :)


>> I'm sure its permissible... But this is Texas, and Texans lurrrve their
>> guns. :)
>>
>
> F*ck! I forgot that. :-)
>

heh...

-- 
~Mike

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On 07/06/2010 9:49 PM, Mike Raiford wrote:
> On 6/7/2010 3:41 PM, Stephen wrote:
>
>>
>> Our Motorways don't belong to cities.
>>
>
> Here the city can patrol any road that passes through it for traffic
> infractions. regardless of who maintains it.

We have a separate branch of the police for road traffic, similar I 
suppose to your highway patrol.

>
>>>> Do you remember the toy that made machine gun and Ray Gun noises that
>>>> fitted on your dashboard?
>>>
>>> I think I do... :)
>>>
>>
>> You must be old :-P
>>

:-)

>
> Not that old! And I was a mere kid when those things came out. :)
>
>
>>> I'm sure its permissible... But this is Texas, and Texans lurrrve their
>>> guns. :)
>>>
>>
>> F*ck! I forgot that. :-)
>>
>
> heh...
>

Don't you mean "He Haw" :-)

-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/7/2010 9:07 AM, scott wrote:
> > Also, you are meant to ACCELERATE in these lanes! On Saturday I followed
> > a car that stayed at a steady 40-50 km/hr and attempted to join a pretty
> > empty autobahn where the cars were doing ~120 km/hr. When you're stuck
> > behind one of these people there isn't much you can do, and you will be
> > the one who gets the horn blast and flashing lights for pulling out so
> > slowly.
>
> Gah!  Yet another peeve... but, yeah. Needless to say merging onto a
> 70mph road at 50mph is not going to win you any friends.

As an aside, on the few occasions I've driven in the US, I was amazed how short
the acceleration/deceleration lanes were for exits... this was in the MA/NH area
so I don't know if it's the same everywhere. Our slips roads in the UK are often
3x as long!

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Bill Pragnell wrote:
> As an aside, on the few occasions I've driven in the US, I was amazed how short
> the acceleration/deceleration lanes were for exits... 

It depends if the roads were built after the surrounding area was built up. 
Most ramps are plenty long enough, unless it would mean tearing up 
historic[*] buildings or something to give the room.


[*] Historic for the USA, of course.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

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