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scott wrote:
>>> should only move out to the left to overtake someone,
>>
>> Are you sure? About the 'only', I mean.
>
> In the UK at least, yes. See rule 264 here:
>
> http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069862
>
> Also rule 268 allows you to "undertake" if the conditions are busy and
> your lane is simply going faster than the other lanes (ie you are not
> expected to brake to avoid undertaking someone if the other lane slows
> down).
>
> But crucially there is no "MUST NOT" related to any of this, so it seems
> there is no specific law that applies in this situation. I assume it
> would just be down to a police officier whether he judged what you were
> doing as dangerous or not. You would probably need a pretty good
> explanation as to why to undertook given that the highway code tells you
> not to. I don't know whether they would accept "someone was hogging the
> overtaking lane" as a valid reason.
>
>
Thanks for clarifying that. Or at least as much clarification as the
Traffic code offers ;) And I now see it is precisely this ambiguity
that is the point of your original question.
Both as a taxi driver and instructor of taxi drivers, and as a generic
driver and Point Reduction (defensive driving) instructor, I find myself
amok in this sort of question constantly.
One thing I am situated to observe is the subjective way in which people
understand laws, and driving laws, which govern such a common and
emotionally laden activity, offer notable examples. And one of the
topics that comes up most often, is the one you have pointed to here:
people driving slowly (meaning the speed limit) in the center most or
'passing' lane. I have had, in class, otherwise mature and sane seeming
people argue that if I am driving the limit in the passing lane I am
interfering with their unalienable right to break the law and challenge
the police to catch them. Some would have it that the law prohibits
them passing to the right and so justifies their aggressive behavior
toward anyone doing the limit in the passing lane. But the law does not
prohibit it, nor does it secure the lane as a passing or high speed lane.
-Jim
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From: Jim Charter
Subject: Re: Lane hoggers - how to deal with them?
Date: 8 Jun 2010 15:12:54
Message: <4c0e9636@news.povray.org>
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scott wrote:
>> As an aside, on the few occasions I've driven in the US, I was amazed
>> how short
>> the acceleration/deceleration lanes were for exits... this was in the
>> MA/NH area
>> so I don't know if it's the same everywhere. Our slips roads in the UK
>> are often
>> 3x as long!
>
> Ditto here in Germany, very short compared to UK. Also the off-ramps
> suddenly go into a very tight corner which you can only take at 30 mph
> or so.
>
> This one here is near where I live, and is fairly typical:
>
> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=48.138643,11.397221&spn=0.00552,0.01074&t=k&z=17
>
>
>
German engineering...of brakes. Our brakes aren't good enough to have
that here.
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Am Mon, 07 Jun 2010 16:10:37 +0200 schrieb scott:
> Thing is, you can get that question wrong and never drive on a motorway,
> let alone have these things explained to you, then you get your full
> driving license. It's no wonder so many people get it wrong.
Ehh... don't you have to drive on the motorway in the driving exam at
least once? In germany you have to do that, although some people only do
it in the exam and don't drive on the motorway after that.
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Florian Pesth wrote:
> Ehh... don't you have to drive on the motorway in the driving exam at
> least once?
No. In fact, in the UK you are *prohibited* from driving on a motorway
until after you pass your test. Which sort-of makes logical sense,
only... not really...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Florian Pesth wrote:
> Ehh... don't you have to drive on the motorway in the driving exam at
> least once?
Some areas in the USA have their own little testing area. A selection of
roads and parking lots and such whose only purpose is to test new drivers.
You're supposed to use your "learner's permit" time to learn to drive on the
real roads with actual drivers sitting beside you.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
that the code does what you think it does, even if
it doesn't do what you wanted.
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On 06/08/10 11:49, Jim Charter wrote:
> the police to catch them. Some would have it that the law prohibits
> them passing to the right and so justifies their aggressive behavior
> toward anyone doing the limit in the passing lane. But the law does not
> prohibit it, nor does it secure the lane as a passing or high speed lane.
In Illinois, on the interstate with two lanes in each direction, you're
not allowed to drive on the left lane if there is a car behind you. It
doesn't say anything about passing on the right, although it says that a
"legitimate" use of being on the left lane is when passing a car.
--
Outside a Muffler Shop:
"No appointment necessary. We hear you coming."
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From: Jim Charter
Subject: Re: Lane hoggers - how to deal with them?
Date: 8 Jun 2010 23:01:56
Message: <4c0f0424@news.povray.org>
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Neeum Zawan wrote:
> On 06/08/10 11:49, Jim Charter wrote:
>> the police to catch them. Some would have it that the law prohibits
>> them passing to the right and so justifies their aggressive behavior
>> toward anyone doing the limit in the passing lane. But the law does not
>> prohibit it, nor does it secure the lane as a passing or high speed lane.
>
> In Illinois, on the interstate with two lanes in each direction, you're
> not allowed to drive on the left lane if there is a car behind you. It
> doesn't say anything about passing on the right, although it says that a
> "legitimate" use of being on the left lane is when passing a car.
>
Yes historically different things have been tried and particular roads
have been/are posted to reserve the left lane as a high speed lane or
passing lane. On steep grades the left lane is often reserved for
faster traffic and so on. In NYC of course the left lanes are often
reserved as HOV (high occupancy vehicle) lanes for certain times of day
and so on. And I think all these bits and half-remembered,
half-understood pieces are what contribute in the minds of some to this
idea that in the general case they have some basic human right to drive
over the speed limit in the left lane and someone driving the limit in
the left lane is breaking the law.
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>> Even at 150 km/h, four seconds is still a distance of 167 m - more than
>> twice the distance at which you can be fined in Germany.
>
> So going substantially faster than any road in the USA allows, you think
> you can stop your car in 4 seconds?
It's not the time, it's the distance. As clipka said, leaving a 4 second
gap when driving 150 km/hr is 167 metres. Even if the car ahead instantly
stops dead with no warning you have 167 metres to do something. Given that
a modern car can stop from 150 km/hr within 150 metres (and from 100 km/hr
in 50 metres), allowing for reaction times at worst you're going to bump in
to them at a low speed.
Of course in reality cars don't just instantly stop for no reason, and this
is why the UK and German governments only suggest you leave a minimum of
around half that gap.
> Here's the problem with that: The guy in 5 in front of you needs five
> seconds to stop and only has four. Now the guy 4 in front of you has only
> three seconds to stop. And the guy three in front of you has only 2
> seconds to stop. Etc.
I don't follow your logic here, if you're leaving a 4 second gap to the car
immediately ahead, you still have a 4 second gap no matter what the people
are doing ahead of you.
> This is how you get 300 car pile-ups.
You get 300 car pile-ups because people drive closer (in distance) to the
car ahead than they need to stop *and* don't pay attention to anything ahead
of the car immediately in front. If they fixed either of those two issues
there wouldn't be any pile up.
> But yeah, if you're going that fast, it's a lot of distance. Just don't
> get distracted for a second.
The key point is to be aware what is happening far enough ahead of you
relative to your speed. Doing 200 km/hr can be safe if you check far enough
ahead of you that it is clear (not just the one car ahead of you). If you
can't for whatever reason then you need to slow down until you can see far
enough for your speed.
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> It's definitely creepy, and you do *not* want to accidentally get on the
> expressway, unless you like driving 150 miles out of your way.
Are there any exits for gas stations? If not you want to be making sure you
have enough fuel too!
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>> This one here is near where I live, and is fairly typical:
>>
>> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=48.138643,11.397221&spn=0.00552,0.01074&t=k&z=17
> German engineering...of brakes. Our brakes aren't good enough to have
> that here.
I think the brakes are probably pretty much the same on all cars everywhere.
What you need is better tyres :-)
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