On 6/8/2010 3:16 AM, Bill Pragnell wrote:
> "scott"<sco### [at] scottcom>  wrote:
>>> As an aside, on the few occasions I've driven in the US, I was amazed how
>>> short
>>> the acceleration/deceleration lanes were for exits... this was in the
>>> MA/NH area
>>> so I don't know if it's the same everywhere. Our slips roads in the UK are
>>> often
>>> 3x as long!
>>
>> Ditto here in Germany, very short compared to UK. Also the off-ramps
>> suddenly go into a very tight corner which you can only take at 30 mph or
>> so.
>>
>> This one here is near where I live, and is fairly typical:
>>
>> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=48.138643,11.397221&spn=0.00552,0.01074&t=k&z=17
>
> Eek. Compare that with this, a fairly typical junction on the M40:
>
>
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?t=k&ie=UTF8&ll=51.739759,-1.095693&spn=0.009527,0.01929&z=16
>

Wow ....

This is pretty typical around here ...

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=33.004048,-96.732334&spn=0.006694,0.013937&t=k&z=17

That is also the interchange around where people use the acceleration 
lane as a passing lane.


-- 
~Mike

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow ....

Wow good or wow bad? ;-)

> This is pretty typical around here ...
>
>
http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=33.004048,-96.732334&spn=0.006694,0.013937&t=k&z=17
>
> That is also the interchange around where people use the acceleration
> lane as a passing lane.

Ahyes, that's a bit different to what I've seen, looks like there's a continuous
acceleration lane between those on/off ramps? No wonder people are cheeky with
that. We've got some of those over here too, and yes, people often use them as
passing lanes. Now where's that laser? :)

Post a reply to this message

And lo On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 09:26:53 +0100, scott <sco### [at] scottcom> did  
spake thusly:

> (Note left/right here is for driving on the right, for driving on the  
> left countries reverse the left/rights).
>
> Here we have two important rules for multi-lane roads, one is that you  
> should only move out to the left to overtake someone, and secondly you  
> are not allowed to pass anyone on the right side (there are some  
> exceptions for queues etc).  I know it's not like this in all countries.

Just as a note this is referred to as overtaking on the left in the UK and  
is not prohibited by law. You'd advised not to do it on motorways unless  
in congested traffic otherwise you should only do so if the car in front  
is signaling to turn right and there's room to do so.

For multi-lane carriageways you're advised to stay in the left-hand lane  
unless turning or overtaking and should return to your original lane when  
the maneuver is complete, but again this is not prohibited law.

You can't be charged with overtaking on the left, but you could be charged  
with driving in an unsafe or reckless manner.

> As anyone who has driven probably knows already, the problem comes when  
> someone stays in the left lane when they are not overtaking anyone and  
> you want to go faster than them.  What are you meant to do if you are  
> behind them in this situation?  What if you are directly behind in the  
> same lane, or what if you approach them in the right lane?
<snip>

> What do you do?

I overtake them, might wake them up to the fact they should have switched  
back to the correct lane.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

clipka wrote:
> Even at 150 km/h, four seconds is still a distance of 167 m - more than 
> twice the distance at which you can be fined in Germany.

So going substantially faster than any road in the USA allows, you think you 
can stop your car in 4 seconds?

> That's surely not enough space to come to a standstill, but hey - the 
> car in front of you would need some distance to slow down to zero, too. 

Here's the problem with that: The guy in 5 in front of you needs five 
seconds to stop and only has four. Now the guy 4 in front of you has only 
three seconds to stop. And the guy three in front of you has only 2 seconds 
to stop. Etc.  This is how you get 300 car pile-ups.


But yeah, if you're going that fast, it's a lot of distance. Just don't get 
distracted for a second.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

Post a reply to this message

Bill Pragnell wrote:
> Fair enough, but most of the exits I was thinking of were in untouched
> countryside, and, as Scott says of some of his German exits, terminated by sharp
> corners!

Funny enough, there's a stretch of freeway in Pennsylvania that goes about 
75 miles with no exits. There are ramps, but the ramps are all walled off at 
the bottom.

It seems the government built the expressway, then came along to build the 
ramps and surface roads, and the farmers pointed out they had made a deal 
generations ago with the government that prevented the government from 
confiscating their land for public purposes.

It's definitely creepy, and you do *not* want to accidentally get on the 
expressway, unless you like driving 150 miles out of your way.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
> This one here is near where I live, and is fairly typical:

This is the one I was talking about, which is actually quite untypical:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=san+diego+ca,+rt+52+and+rt+5&sll=32.729169,-117.138119&sspn=0.040723,0.057077&ie=UTF8&hq=rt+52+and+rt+5&hnear=San+Diego,+CA&ll=32.839329,-117.234571&spn=0.002542,0.003567&t=k&z=18


It wouldn't be quite so bad except it's uphill, people on the main road 
(North/South) are trying to exit, and those trees keep you from seeing who 
is coming up the freeway while you're on the ramp. (The ramp in question 
being the westbound 52 ramp merging into the northbound I-5).

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

Post a reply to this message

Bill Pragnell wrote:
> Just for the spectacle, here's a highly atypical UK intersection, the infamous
> 'spaghetti' junction on the M6:

That's pretty typical around here.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=san+diego+ca&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=39.184175,58.447266&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=San+Diego,+California&ll=32.758813,-117.203661&spn=0.005089,0.007135&t=k&z=17
-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

Post a reply to this message

Mike Raiford wrote:
> Exception: When the car in front of you brakes suddenly after cutting 
> directly in front of you, not giving you room to react ....

True. It's sometimes hard to avoid that sort of thing.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>>> should only move out to the left to overtake someone,
>>
>> Are you sure? About the 'only', I mean.
> 
> In the UK at least, yes.  See rule 264 here:
> 
> http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069862
> 
> Also rule 268 allows you to "undertake" if the conditions are busy and 
> your lane is simply going faster than the other lanes (ie you are not 
> expected to brake to avoid undertaking someone if the other lane slows 
> down).
> 
> But crucially there is no "MUST NOT" related to any of this, so it seems 
> there is no specific law that applies in this situation.  I assume it 
> would just be down to a police officier whether he judged what you were 
> doing as dangerous or not.  You would probably need a pretty good 
> explanation as to why to undertook given that the highway code tells you 
> not to.  I don't know whether they would accept "someone was hogging the 
> overtaking lane" as a valid reason.
> 
> 
Thanks for clarifying that.  Or at least as much clarification as the 
Traffic code offers ;)  And I now see it is precisely this ambiguity 
that is the point of your original question.

Both as a taxi driver and instructor of taxi drivers, and as a generic 
driver and Point Reduction (defensive driving) instructor, I find myself 
amok in this sort of question constantly.

One thing I am situated to observe is the subjective way in which people 
understand laws, and driving laws, which govern such a common and 
emotionally laden activity, offer notable examples.  And one of the 
topics that comes up most often, is the one you have pointed to here: 
people driving slowly (meaning the speed limit) in the center most or 
'passing' lane.  I have had, in class, otherwise mature and sane seeming 
people argue that if I am driving the limit in the passing lane I am 
interfering with their unalienable right to break the law and challenge 
the police to catch them.  Some would have it that the law prohibits 
them passing to the right and so justifies their aggressive behavior 
toward anyone doing the limit in the passing lane.  But the law does not 
prohibit it, nor does it secure the lane as a passing or high speed lane.


-Jim

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>> As an aside, on the few occasions I've driven in the US, I was amazed 
>> how short
>> the acceleration/deceleration lanes were for exits... this was in the 
>> MA/NH area
>> so I don't know if it's the same everywhere. Our slips roads in the UK 
>> are often
>> 3x as long!
> 
> Ditto here in Germany, very short compared to UK. Also the off-ramps 
> suddenly go into a very tight corner which you can only take at 30 mph 
> or so.
> 
> This one here is near where I live, and is fairly typical:
> 
> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=48.138643,11.397221&spn=0.00552,0.01074&t=k&z=17 
> 
> 
> 
German engineering...of brakes.  Our brakes aren't good enough to have 
that here.

Post a reply to this message